ESO using Hero Engine and Havok, seriously??
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Moonraker✭✭✭✭Another thread jumping to the wrong conclusion without even bothering to check the facts available. That spash screen has always been there in the Launcher install.
So quick to judge, so slow to apologise.Edited by Moonraker on May 25, 2014 7:56PM6 -
patrikblb16_ESO wrote: »patrikblb16_ESO wrote: »@patrikblb16_ESO : Can you log into game and play?
If I wanted to yes.
Knowing how they lied I dont feel like it though, it's just not ok.
Are you planing to stop playing then ?
Yes I'm planning to stop playing, but I will not only quit ESO I will stop playing MMO's in general. I've been playing MMO's since 1998 and it ends here, I was going to stop after SWTOR but Elder Scrolls was always my favorite type of game so I wanted to give it one last go.
As the saying goes, "There's the door, don't let it hit ya on the way out."War must be, while we defend our lives against a destroyer who would devour all; but I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.13 -
patrikblb16_ESO✭✭✭ZOS_TristanK wrote: »Hi, folks. When we began development for ESO, we licensed the HeroEngine so that we could hit the ground running. We used it as a tool for things like area prototypes and design concepts so that we could begin honing the art style. HeroEngine was our whiteboard: a great tool to put our ideas in the game and seeing them while the production engine was in development.
But why on earth do you use the HE splash screen "Powered by Hero Engine" if you only used it for concept work in the beginning?
Wouldnt you want to brag about your very own homebrew engine instead if that was the case?
I dont see "Powered by Photoshop" wich probably was involved in alot of concept work too.3 -
Orizuru✭✭✭patrikblb16_ESO wrote: »ZOS_TristanK wrote: »Hi, folks. When we began development for ESO, we licensed the HeroEngine so that we could hit the ground running. We used it as a tool for things like area prototypes and design concepts so that we could begin honing the art style. HeroEngine was our whiteboard: a great tool to put our ideas in the game and seeing them while the production engine was in development.
But why on earth do you use the HE splash screen "Powered by Hero Engine" if you only used it for concept work in the beginning?
Wouldnt you want to brag about your very own homebrew engine instead if that was the case?
I dont see "Powered by Photoshop" wich probably was involved in alot of concept work too.
It's probably part of the license agreement they had to use it in the first place. If a major game release was using one of my products for testing I'd want credit for my product somewhere on the finished title and I'd make sure the license agreement contract guarantees I get that credit.
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Fairydragon3✭✭✭✭NaciremaDiputs wrote: »patrikblb16_ESO wrote: »ZOS_TristanK wrote: »Hi, folks. When we began development for ESO, we licensed the HeroEngine so that we could hit the ground running. We used it as a tool for things like area prototypes and design concepts so that we could begin honing the art style. HeroEngine was our whiteboard: a great tool to put our ideas in the game and seeing them while the production engine was in development.
But why on earth do you use the HE splash screen "Powered by Hero Engine" if you only used it for concept work in the beginning?
Wouldnt you want to brag about your very own homebrew engine instead if that was the case?
I dont see "Powered by Photoshop" wich probably was involved in alot of concept work too.
It's probably part of the license agreement they had to use it in the first place. If a major game release was using one of my products for testing I'd want credit for my product somewhere on the finished title and I'd make sure the license agreement contract guarantees I get that credit.
Yeah same reason Zenimax Media claims ownership of the Occulus rift IP, or tries to lol3 -
patrikblb16_ESO✭✭✭NaciremaDiputs wrote: »patrikblb16_ESO wrote: »ZOS_TristanK wrote: »Hi, folks. When we began development for ESO, we licensed the HeroEngine so that we could hit the ground running. We used it as a tool for things like area prototypes and design concepts so that we could begin honing the art style. HeroEngine was our whiteboard: a great tool to put our ideas in the game and seeing them while the production engine was in development.
But why on earth do you use the HE splash screen "Powered by Hero Engine" if you only used it for concept work in the beginning?
Wouldnt you want to brag about your very own homebrew engine instead if that was the case?
I dont see "Powered by Photoshop" wich probably was involved in alot of concept work too.
It's probably part of the license agreement they had to use it in the first place. If a major game release was using one of my products for testing I'd want credit for my product somewhere on the finished title and I'd make sure the license agreement contract guarantees I get that credit.
But they claim the engine is not used in ESO, they claim they used it long ago in the beginning for concept work only. Wich would mean it wasnt in there when they made the real stuff.
The 32-bit client is another hint that the game is actually using it still, if they wrote their very own engine in 2012 and didnt see the need for 64-bit clients it would be even more stupid than keep using that Hero Engine they had been working with for many years dont you think?3 -
FrauPerchta✭✭✭I love SWTOR which is Hero. Never had single problem with it. Perhaps if ESO was fully Hero I wouldn't be having all the problems I am now. ESO has gone from being like playing a beta to playing an alpha.3
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tilolyen_ESO✭✭✭patrikblb16_ESO wrote: »You told us this game wouldnt use Hero Engine, that you just used it for conceptual work in the beginning, and that you wrote your very own engine...[snip]
I wanted to re-install the game completly and get this thrown right into my face "Powered by Hero Engine", then a Havok logo right after...What the ***??
This explains why this games loading times is as long as they are, and it also explains why you cannot fix the bugs, you need to rely on a third party company to fix bugs for you wich you then use to create your patches...This game is beyond fixing now, I'm 100% certain that you can never fix the bugs because you have zero control over the game.
It also explains why you keep on pushing patches with tons of bugs that have been reported for weeks, sometimes even months on PTS.
I have zero trust left for Zenimax and Bethesda now, good luck with your future releases wich I will not be a part of anymore.
Sincerly
A deeply insulted fan
With all due respect @patrikblb16_ESO - with all the problems the game currently has and each consecutive patch making it worse, there are a lot more pressing matters then what type of engine they used.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on August 3, 2025 6:20PM3 -
Orizuru✭✭✭patrikblb16_ESO wrote: »NaciremaDiputs wrote: »patrikblb16_ESO wrote: »ZOS_TristanK wrote: »Hi, folks. When we began development for ESO, we licensed the HeroEngine so that we could hit the ground running. We used it as a tool for things like area prototypes and design concepts so that we could begin honing the art style. HeroEngine was our whiteboard: a great tool to put our ideas in the game and seeing them while the production engine was in development.
But why on earth do you use the HE splash screen "Powered by Hero Engine" if you only used it for concept work in the beginning?
Wouldnt you want to brag about your very own homebrew engine instead if that was the case?
I dont see "Powered by Photoshop" wich probably was involved in alot of concept work too.
It's probably part of the license agreement they had to use it in the first place. If a major game release was using one of my products for testing I'd want credit for my product somewhere on the finished title and I'd make sure the license agreement contract guarantees I get that credit.
But they claim the engine is not used in ESO, they claim they used it long ago in the beginning for concept work only. Wich would mean it wasnt in there when they made the real stuff.
The 32-bit client is another hint that the game is actually using it still, if they wrote their very own engine in 2012 and didnt see the need for 64-bit clients it would be even more stupid than keep using that Hero Engine they had been working with for many years dont you think?
There is no telling what is in that contract though. The guys who own the Hero Engine probably knew it wasn't going to work for ESO in the long-run and made certain the contract included something that requires ZOS to credit their product/company for up to 10 or more years.
/shrug
Just give it up man. You have no proof and are just speculating and spreading rumors.
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theStrict9✭✭I played SWTOR, loading times were much worse for me than they are for ESO.
How you use middleware is just as important which middleware you use. Havok is a great physics library by industry standards, but it can be poorly integrated. Hero engine probably has strengths and weaknesses too, though I've never worked with it personally. Either way, you can't flatly claim that a game is bad because of the software it uses. There are great games sitting on top of terrible engines, and you'd never know it just by playing the game.Edited by theStrict9 on May 25, 2014 8:50PM2 -
fakedawgb16_ESOSoul ShrivenWhen people make ignorant threads like this, they should be given a permanent ban both from the forums and the game, just to help them fulfill their promise/threat of leaving ...11
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I think this thread has deteriorated into a "good bye" thread. Sensing a closure to this thread, soon...4 -
KerinKor✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Also a deeply wrong fan it appears.patrikblb16_ESO wrote: »You told us this game wouldnt use Hero Engine, that you just used it for conceptual work in the beginning, and that you wrote your very own engine...[snip]
I wanted to re-install the game completly and get this thrown right into my face "Powered by Hero Engine", then a Havok logo right after...What the ***??
This explains why this games loading times is as long as they are, and it also explains why you cannot fix the bugs, you need to rely on a third party company to fix bugs for you wich you then use to create your patches...This game is beyond fixing now, I'm 100% certain that you can never fix the bugs because you have zero control over the game.
It also explains why you keep on pushing patches with tons of bugs that have been reported for weeks, sometimes even months on PTS.
I have zero trust left for Zenimax and Bethesda now, good luck with your future releases wich I will not be a part of anymore.
Sincerly
A deeply insulted fan
I'm sure ZOS accept your apology for posting rubbish about them.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on August 3, 2025 6:20PM8 -
Arreyanne✭✭✭✭Maybe this is why you have to hit a keybind twice three time a loser before it actually fires the ability
Or perhaps this is also why animation fire, the magika or stamina is used and wohoo no damge0 -
felixgamingx1✭✭✭✭ZOS_TristanK wrote: »Hi, folks. When we began development for ESO, we licensed the HeroEngine so that we could hit the ground running. We used it as a tool for things like area prototypes and design concepts so that we could begin honing the art style. HeroEngine was our whiteboard: a great tool to put our ideas in the game and seeing them while the production engine was in development.
At least you guys didn't use Rpgmaker @ZOS_TristanK maybe in the future you guys might want to consider using your own engine.
Edited by felixgamingx1 on May 25, 2014 10:50PM4 -
Kingslayer✭✭✭patrikblb16_ESO wrote: »
[Snip] Zos paid for the rights to Hero some years back when they first started up. And it was used in the development process and the launcher especially. Hence why it is credited in the installation process!!!. Strange how it isn't in the title sequence or at the bottom of the title screen like everything else is?. That is all.
[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]Edited by ZOS_LodieA on May 26, 2014 7:31AM2 -
Cogo✭✭✭✭✭
✭Are you serious!?!?!
Zenimax just did a hell of a job, vastly increased their information to us customes about a complex ongoing fixing operation.
I just played for 8 hours straight! All night on EU Server, with no problems at all, apart from a quest disapered, but since I have played a game or 2 before, I simply reloaded the game and bam....quest was back, I had to redo one step, just as the devs SATURDAY morning stated. And finished it.
Not only does the game works, it looks even better. I was not expecting that.
It seams to run "smoother" as well...I cant explain exactly how, but like you had an old TV before and bought a huge wide screen.......
Several people have been in Cyro, but I am waiting for the hotfix this morning before I go in.
I did stay most of my time in eastmarch, doing quests, exploring, dying again to a freakin troll. And found another Skyshard! Wheeee!
Questing works. Did 2 dungeons with some other nightowl people.
Had lots of fun and I REALLY like the new dungeon chest system. No more selfish people who can give a damn about even fighting and only looting chests.
I do like the change in the boss drops. The first instance, I "only" got a grey and a green item as loot" I got something, the kill, achievement and fun!
The second instanced droped a now rare ORC motif!! Wooo! AND a purple axe which I am proudly wearing as my upgrade.
Sure, there are stuff left to fix, and with new content, will be even more to fix. Zenimax ARE doing their job. They really proved that this weekend.
Who cares what type of engine, brand servers, SAN or what the hell they are using, as long as it works?????
1 hour downtime for a fix. Awesome, get some sleep, food and then go explore again....but people, stay the HELL away from trolls. Takes ages to kill them, even if you are able to do that.
And on a last point, I use 1H and shield. Other weapon is bow, but when I had my skill points back in the extra damage for the shield, and succeed to stun the enemy as the shield bash skill information clearly states is its purpose....it did decent damage. Not the OP like before, but anyone who says shield bash is broken, are simply not doing it right.
Thanks Zenimax for the good job. Keep it up and it was very nice to have information flowing to us.Oghur Hatemachine, Guild leader of The Nephilim - EU Megaserver
Orc Weapon Specialist and Warchief of the Ebonheart Pact - Trueflame Cyrodiil War Campaign
Guildsite: The Nephilim
"I don't agree with what you are saying, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it"
-Voltaire
"My build? Improvise, overcome and adapt!"12 -
Cogo✭✭✭✭✭
✭ZurinArctus wrote: »This thread made me lol.
Thanks.
It would be funny if there wasnt so many that agrees with this drivvel.
I am starting to wonder if some type of player always looking for faults to complain about? If so, why even play the game?Oghur Hatemachine, Guild leader of The Nephilim - EU Megaserver
Orc Weapon Specialist and Warchief of the Ebonheart Pact - Trueflame Cyrodiil War Campaign
Guildsite: The Nephilim
"I don't agree with what you are saying, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it"
-Voltaire
"My build? Improvise, overcome and adapt!"4 -
Lodestar✭✭✭✭patrikblb16_ESO wrote: »
because they HAVE to. there was a huge discussion on it, if they even used it partially they have to give credit where it is due.
the hero engine can NOT absolutely 100% can NOT handle the things that ESO does from combat, to highly scripted quests, to the ENTIRE cyrodil experience.
this went along with the reasons they dropped it. I'll not spoonfeed you but if you really are so intelligent you can spend 15 minutes of google research and find out for yourself.
[snip]
the engine drop was one of the reasons they had to delay and pretty much start from scratch mid way (and frankly is most likely why the game feels less than complete now)
So he is a troll because he read a clear message saying it was powered by Hero, with no context, and because he was not in the right place at the right time to see the discussion you did?
[snip]
Yes, I can understand how someone may feel it was Hero Engine after seeing that. And I don't see anything about their own engine on credits. Myself, I figured it was Havok since that in on credits and has been since beta.
[edited for baiting & to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on August 3, 2025 6:24PM4 -
Attorneyatlawl✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭http://www.pcgameshardware.com/aid,1034123/The-Elder-Scrolls-Online-Improved-effects-with-DirectX-11-Exclusive-Tech-Interview/News/
2012 interview talking about their own in-house engine and only using hero for prototyping/other early dev. It has nothing to do with the actual engine ESO uses
for live. -First-Wave Closed Beta Tester of the Psijic Order, aka the 0.016 percent.
Exploits suck. Don't blame just the game, blame the players abusing them!
-Playing since July 2013, back when we had a killspam channel in Cyrodiil and the lands of Tamriel were roamed by dinosaurs.
________________
-In-game mains abound with "Nerf" in their name. As I am asked occasionally, I do not play on anything but the PC NA Megaserver at this time.1 -
patrikblb16_ESO wrote: »
because they HAVE to. there was a huge discussion on it, if they even used it partially they have to give credit where it is due.
the hero engine can NOT absolutely 100% can NOT handle the things that ESO does from combat, to highly scripted quests, to the ENTIRE cyrodil experience.
this went along with the reasons they dropped it. I'll not spoonfeed you but if you really are so intelligent you can spend 15 minutes of google research and find out for yourself.
[snip]
the engine drop was one of the reasons they had to delay and pretty much start from scratch mid way (and frankly is most likely why the game feels less than complete now)
So he is a troll because he read a clear message saying it was powered by Hero, with no context, and because he was not in the right place at the right time to see the discussion you did?
[snip]
Yes, I can understand how someone may feel it was Hero Engine after seeing that. And I don't see anything about their own engine on credits. Myself, I figured it was Havok since that in on credits and has been since beta.
I think the point is, before slandering a company for something, you should do some research on the topic.
People get away with saying whatever they want nowadays because you don't have to own up to anything you say. Basically you can spew whatever garbage you want and then walk away.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on August 3, 2025 6:25PMToktok - Vet8 Orc Templar - 2 Hand, Medium/Heavy Armor Grunt - Blacksmith/Clothier/Enchanter/Alchemist4 -
trimsic_ESO✭✭✭✭✭And people expect an MMO game to be perfect at launch time, with tons of contents ready and no bugs of course. They play the game for a couple of months, sometimes even less, and then they stop, concluding that the game won't make it.
12 years ago, an MMO was a quite new genre in the game industry and people were spending more time before they left.
A game like ESO needs at least 6 months before it can reach a point where it's mature enough to please its customer base. Or not.
IMHO, ESO has a good set of game mechanics, and they proved it when releasing Graglorn. The PvE contents of Craglorn is rather rich and good, even very good compared to what can be found in the MMO ecosystem today. Not to mention that the graphics are just great...
I'll give ESO a chance to prove that this game can also succeed in Cyrodiil. Yes there are a lot of issues here:
- AvA meta game too poor because of insufficient techniques to counter the zerg
- Class balance issues
- Weapon balance issues (physical weapons are way below magical weapons)
- Lags in Cyrodiil, especially on the European server
- 5 skills per bar is clearly not enough for the sake of rich tactical combats
But this can be fixed; we should be patient. I strongly believe in the great potential of this game, both as a guild leader and as a player.
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LameoveR✭✭✭✭There is no Hero Engine in my client, i've just dissasembled the code.
Topic can be closed.3 -
Sakiri✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Except that Havok was never ...they never said they WERENT using Havok. Just about everyone uses at *least* Havok physics.
Game doesnt use Hero Engine either. Probably eithet a) forgot to remove that(Ive honestly not seen it anywhere) or b) are legally cya in case they missed a line of code.
It does use Havok. It does not use Hero Engine. Hero Engine was used very early on in development as a prototyping tool...the final engine is not Hero Engine in any way. You can clearly see this if you actually play a Hero Engine game...the ESO engine does not look or behave ANYTHING like it. The ONLY time Hero Engine is ever mentioned is on the installation screen. It doesn't show up in the game anywhere. I assume that because they did license and use Hero Engine during the prototyping phase, they have to mention it in the credits, even if the final engine doesn't have anything to do with it. Just a legal technicality I'm sure.
As for Havok, it's just physics middleware. Lots of things use it, and I have to assume it's being used for the ragoll physics when you knock things down or get knocked down.
Precisely. Havok is an entire physicks and animation suite.
They never once said "we arent using Havok."0 -
Sakiri✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Fairydragon3 wrote: »ZOS_TristanK wrote: »Hi, folks. When we began development for ESO, we licensed the HeroEngine so that we could hit the ground running. We used it as a tool for things like area prototypes and design concepts so that we could begin honing the art style. HeroEngine was our whiteboard: a great tool to put our ideas in the game and seeing them while the production engine was in development.
a common practice in video game development, to maximize you time you creat the game inverical slices, iterating on the last prototype. they probably use a lot of the scripting on hero and transferred to the in house engine
Diablo 3 was test run and built with Havok before adding a proprietary physics engine.
Licensing for whiteboard is stupid common because it lets you use a working product to start assets before your engine is done.3 -
Bangstin✭✭✭Poor hero engine coders. Wonder if in hindsight they would sell the betaengine again to Bioware.
After Swtor no player seem to want to touch games done with hero engine with 6 foot pole and companies are quick to state 'no, we dont plan to use hero engine'
Edited by Bangstin on May 26, 2014 6:29PM1 -
So now we are just creating whine threads for random reasons? I mean, who the hell cares what engine they use. It is the end product that I care about.1
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LameoveR✭✭✭✭
I cares! I don't want another "LA2" engine! :-Ptxfeinbergsub17_ESO wrote: »I mean, who the hell cares what engine they use.
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