Resto/Destro staff Sorcerer tank; viable?

Artemiisia · May 2014

Im a VR2 restro/destruc staff sorc

my restro castbar is totally different than OP

Using
Innerlight
drain essence (vampire)
crystal blast
Rapid Regeneration
mages wrath/critical surge (depending on the situation)
Energy overload

there are a couple of skills im working on, soul symmetri, frost ring, batswam

Alpha_Protocol · May 2014

I made a sorc healer and soon realized I was unintentionally doing quite a bit of tanking at the same time.

I actually ended up soloing the last 5% of the boss in spindle clutch because our sorc tank wasn't blocking very well (yes we actually had a sorc tank and sorc healer in the same group

) and others were having trouble avoiding the red. I'm not sure what the sorcs build was or where it was headed, but they were in heavy armor/dual wielding which I found odd.

My point... I'm interested in sorc tanking and all of my skills so far are healing/shield/regeneration focused.

My plan was to build 3 bars. Resto, Destro and Sword & Board.

I think Redguard is probably the best race from the perspective that the racial stamina and weapon skill passives will be needed for heavy melee bosses. Redguard's a poor choice for a magicka build, but regardless of how many shields you have up at some point you need to dodge, sprint or block. Of course I'd rely on light armor for magicka passives.

Two skill builds on bar 1; AOE trash with Destro staff and Sword & Board for boss fights. Second bar is Resto staff heals and utility. I'd only spec into puncture for the taunt and to level 1-Hand & Shield for the passives. Once I got Inner Fire I'd add that to the Destro build for stray mobs.

I say 3 builds because using Wykkyd's outfitter makes swapping skill and armor sets between pulls easy enough to be prepared for anything.

Armor would be 5 light/2 heavy for passives. Haven't tried this yet but that's how I see it.

SexyVette07 · May 2014

So on my days off, I leveled my daedric summoning line from 1-42 (never used it before), picked up both Annulment and Conjured Ward (but havent leveled them up yet). I have to say, that combo with mist form trivializes a lot of things. I can run through multiple packs of mobs in veteran dungeons while running to skyshards and they never get through my shields before they expire. Its essentially 900 points of damage shields, or 1800 from spells, and then takes 75% less damage from mistform. I love that both of these buffs are 20 seconds too. OP combo and should be amazing as hell for tanking. I was also able to level Bound Aegis to max lvl. I still cant tank just yet because I dont have Inner Fire taunt because I skipped dungeons all throughout the leveling process. I am going back to do the non VR dungeons for Undaunted XP and skill points this coming weekend. If I manage to get enough Undaunted XP, and get Inner Fire, ill begin tanking and will report back after next weekend.

But as of now, it looks like this build is going to be totally amazing.

@Andy22‌ do you think I will need Crystal Blast (morph of crystal shard) on my single target bar, or can I get away with just using taunt and the damage reduction abilities to tank bosses?

Andy22 · May 2014

SexyVette07 wrote: »

@Andy22‌ do you think I will need Crystal Blast (morph of crystal shard) on my single target bar, or can I get away with just using taunt and the damage reduction abilities to tank bosses?

All cc don't work on bosses, damage reduction does. I use Deep Slash and NB shades to get dmg reduction. I did test this combo on bossed and the problem is that it uses some "funky" math and has some randomness to it. I have seen reduction ranged from 5% to 60% combined. This just shows that we are still in "open beta".

So don't expect dmg reduction to actually work as u expect, but it seems to work "good enough".

I'm not sure why u would slot a single target damage skill as tank? If u have a dps race boss, sure use a dps build that still keeps u alive, otherwise slot cc/ae/def/utility.

I found that as NB tank, given my extreme amount of sta/magicka recovery i can use Boneshield every 5 seconds, which greatly helps the healer if "nearby" players can activate it. Unfortunately in PUG's they often stand too far away, even after explaining this or simply don't activate it

SexyVette07 · May 2014

Andy22 wrote: »

SexyVette07 wrote: »

@Andy22‌ do you think I will need Crystal Blast (morph of crystal shard) on my single target bar, or can I get away with just using taunt and the damage reduction abilities to tank bosses?

All cc don't work on bosses, damage reduction does. I use Deep Slash and NB shades to get dmg reduction. I did test this combo on bossed and the problem is that it uses some "funky" math and has some randomness to it. I have seen reduction ranged from 5% to 60% combined. This just shows that we are still in "open beta".

So don't expect dmg reduction to actually work as u expect, but it seems to work "good enough".

I'm not sure why u would slot a single target damage skill as tank? If u have a dps race boss, sure use a dps build that still keeps u alive, otherwise slot cc/ae/def/utility.

I found that as NB tank, given my extreme amount of sta/magicka recovery i can use Boneshield every 5 seconds, which greatly helps the healer if "nearby" players can activate it. Unfortunately in PUG's they often stand too far away, even after explaining this or simply don't activate it

That was my question; do I even need a damaging ability on my bars to tank a boss. Thanks for the info.

Xanxarib16_ESO · May 2014

no you dont need a damage abilitiy all you need are the two taunts from undaunted and SnS you will never loose agro with those two running.

Andy22 · May 2014

Xanxarib16_ESO wrote: »

no you dont need a damage abilitiy all you need are the two taunts from undaunted and SnS you will never loose agro with those two running.

Just to clarify, both taunts work "reliably" and have a long 15 sec duration. The advantage of the undaunted taunt is, that it is ranged and can be used with any weapon. The 1h&s is ofc melee only and uses stamina, but can be morphed to give u a good amount of armor.

I use mainly the 1h&s taunt, since its my only sta skill in trash pulls and i can just run around and spam it. I slot the undaunted taunt if i need to pickup hard adds quickly or cant go melee.

NOTE: "reliably" because some bosses have special "crap" that they cast on random members and others have "maybe" bugged phases, where taunting seems to-do nothing.

SexyVette07 · May 2014

Well I accidentally deleted my well thought out reply, but ill just say that the Undaunted taunt is a no brainer for me, being fully invested in magicka. I have no intention on leveling sword and board, as this is simply an off spec and an experiment for me.

So my boss tank spec is looking like...

1) Annulment -> Dampen Magic (being buffed to 100% in 1.1!)
2) Conjured Ward -> Hardened Ward (Absorbs so much more than Ward Ally and it also has a 20 second duration to match Annulment)
3) Mist Form -> Elusive Mist (in conjunction with the above two shields)
4) Inner Fire -> Inner Beast
5) Bound Aegis, Combat Prayer or Boundless Storm, depending on the situation and group.

Im thinking all three have their uses. Bound Aegis would be for melee bosses, Boundless Storm for caster bosses, and Combat Prayer for situations with large group damage or is a dps race. Also, Bound Aegis and Boundless Storm lose its luster when ill be shielding myself and spending a lot of time in Mist Form anyway so my armor shouldnt be a factor, right?

Edit, once I start tanking, im definitely going to pick up a Magicka Furnace set. Thats the only way I forsee myself being able to maintain mana without using Dark Exchange.

Xanxarib16_ESO · May 2014

Andy22 wrote: »

Xanxarib16_ESO wrote: »

no you dont need a damage abilitiy all you need are the two taunts from undaunted and SnS you will never loose agro with those two running.

Just to clarify, both taunts work "reliably" and have a long 15 sec duration. The advantage of the undaunted taunt is, that it is ranged and can be used with any weapon. The 1h&s is ofc melee only and uses stamina, but can be morphed to give u a good amount of armor.

I use mainly the 1h&s taunt, since its my only sta skill in trash pulls and i can just run around and spam it. I slot the undaunted taunt if i need to pickup hard adds quickly or cant go melee.

NOTE: "reliably" because some bosses have special "crap" that they cast on random members and others have "maybe" bugged phases, where taunting seems to-do nothing.

god... both taunts work and both taunts stack ^^ just take a look at it.

only one boss so far in the vr content are immune to taunt and that is the spider dwemer boss.

some bosses reset agro after a mechanic, other bosses do an attack on another group member but do not reset agro. so your taunt is still in effect.

so saying that taunts dont work or is bugged is pure BS. im sorry but im a VR 10 tank been it a long time now, and the sad fact is that you only need the two taunts to handle a boss.

this game is a joke when it comes to tanking, healing, and dps... they call it action combat, but its only very light when it comes to action, and you can hardly see a difference between a good and a bad player for the system is so noob friendly...

time blocks? not in the game, penalty for holding block up not in the game.
dodge attack not working 90% of the time since most skills are target seeking. and ignore obstacle's
healing? can you say smart target healing? its a joke.
dps? can you say soft target even if the boss move you still hit them. another big joke.

but dont get me wrong i like this game. but man they really *** it up with endgame content and there so called "action combat system" if you noticed it the only thing they have done with the VR content is amp up the mobs and bosses hp and damage nothing else, and that says volumes abourt the current system and future content.

Andy22 · May 2014

Xanxarib16_ESO wrote: »

god... both taunts work and both taunts stack ^^ just take a look at it.

What u getting at? I just point out that u often don't need 2 taunts slotted and "stacking" does nothing to get "more" or better aggro, it justs refreshes your 100% hard taunt. So if there is a actual use case that u should "stack" both taunts on a boss, plz explain this.

only one boss so far in the vr content are immune to taunt and that is the spider dwemer boss.

Is this the Fungal boss "Spawm of Mephala"? Thats where i noticed my taunt "glitches" or at least i did not notice that she is immune?

so saying that taunts dont work or is bugged is pure BS.

Just wow calling "BS" on someone for something he never sayed, well done sir!
Only because u are disappointed/frustrated in ESO vet dungeons, don't let it out on others in the forum plz.

I quote myself:

both taunts work "reliably"

and put "reliably" in quotes, since i explained that special attacks and as u stated yourself at least 1 boss is immune to taunts. I did this because it could be confusing to a new tank, so i just explained that those exceptions are to-be expected behaviour.

No clue why u go all "BS" on me? Just a bad day?

alexj4596b14_ESO · May 2014

SexyVette07 wrote: »

So I have this idea. Although there are obvious repercussions for not doing sword and board, resto staff has a lot of buff and survivability that just cant be overlooked. In particular, Ward Ally could be OP as hell. Also, with a critical surge AoE secondary bar for adds, this could be the best of all worlds. So this is what I have. A basically self sustaining tank and in CLOTH armor or 5 light/2 heavy for a little more armor. Mind you, Sorcerers are probably the only class that can pull this off due to boundless storm (morph of lightning form) since itll put you well beyond the soft cap on both armor and spell penetration.

Set 1 - Resto Staff - single target
1)Inner Beast (Undaunted skill line, taunt)
2)Ward Ally (important that its this morph, so it shields you and not someone else)
3)Dark Exchange (heals and mana regen)
4)Boundless Storm(high amount of armor, spell resist, and 30% move speed)
5)Crystal Shards (high single target dps and knockdown as long as the mob isnt immune) and heals you for 5% max hp every time it hits
*if you have good single target dps in your group, you could possibly replace Crystal Shards with something like Combat Prayer and use heavy weapon attacks instead since they not only AoE heal you and your group, but replaces 10% mana every time. Taunt will force (most) bosses to stay on you, so your dps is less relevant.

Edit; also, the resto staff passives for 15% more healing while under 30% and a flat 5% healing bonus are boss. Pretty sure it bolsters shields too, so your ward ally will absorb stupid amounts when at low HP, and then your dark exchange will heal for stupid amounts.

Set 2- Destruction staff - AoE
1)Inner Light (+20% crit to fuel Critical Surge heals)
2)Critical Surge (heal for 65% of the damage you deal with crits, plus it makes Pulsar hit a lot harder)
3)Boundless Storm (so OP, instant tank)
4)Bolt of Lightning (Hope they fix the absorb function...) alternate ability would be combat prayer if the mobs are immune to stun.
5)Pulsar (AoE spam on adds, between that damage and the AoE from Boundless Storm, you should hold aggro pretty well)

So, what do you guys think? Will it work or not?

for vet this will not work

SexyVette07 · May 2014

Sounds like someone is upset at the game, not you Andy.

alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »

SexyVette07 wrote: »

So I have this idea. Although there are obvious repercussions for not doing sword and board, resto staff has a lot of buff and survivability that just cant be overlooked. In particular, Ward Ally could be OP as hell. Also, with a critical surge AoE secondary bar for adds, this could be the best of all worlds. So this is what I have. A basically self sustaining tank and in CLOTH armor or 5 light/2 heavy for a little more armor. Mind you, Sorcerers are probably the only class that can pull this off due to boundless storm (morph of lightning form) since itll put you well beyond the soft cap on both armor and spell penetration.

Set 1 - Resto Staff - single target
1)Inner Beast (Undaunted skill line, taunt)
2)Ward Ally (important that its this morph, so it shields you and not someone else)
3)Dark Exchange (heals and mana regen)
4)Boundless Storm(high amount of armor, spell resist, and 30% move speed)
5)Crystal Shards (high single target dps and knockdown as long as the mob isnt immune) and heals you for 5% max hp every time it hits
*if you have good single target dps in your group, you could possibly replace Crystal Shards with something like Combat Prayer and use heavy weapon attacks instead since they not only AoE heal you and your group, but replaces 10% mana every time. Taunt will force (most) bosses to stay on you, so your dps is less relevant.

Edit; also, the resto staff passives for 15% more healing while under 30% and a flat 5% healing bonus are boss. Pretty sure it bolsters shields too, so your ward ally will absorb stupid amounts when at low HP, and then your dark exchange will heal for stupid amounts.

Set 2- Destruction staff - AoE
1)Inner Light (+20% crit to fuel Critical Surge heals)
2)Critical Surge (heal for 65% of the damage you deal with crits, plus it makes Pulsar hit a lot harder)
3)Boundless Storm (so OP, instant tank)
4)Bolt of Lightning (Hope they fix the absorb function...) alternate ability would be combat prayer if the mobs are immune to stun.
5)Pulsar (AoE spam on adds, between that damage and the AoE from Boundless Storm, you should hold aggro pretty well)

So, what do you guys think? Will it work or not?

for vet this will not work

Ive updated the thread quite a bit since it was created. Check out those updates and let me know what you think, and why it would or wouldnt work.

alexj4596b14_ESO · May 2014

SexyVette07 wrote: »

Sounds like someone is upset at the game, not you Andy.

alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »

SexyVette07 wrote: »

So I have this idea. Although there are obvious repercussions for not doing sword and board, resto staff has a lot of buff and survivability that just cant be overlooked. In particular, Ward Ally could be OP as hell. Also, with a critical surge AoE secondary bar for adds, this could be the best of all worlds. So this is what I have. A basically self sustaining tank and in CLOTH armor or 5 light/2 heavy for a little more armor. Mind you, Sorcerers are probably the only class that can pull this off due to boundless storm (morph of lightning form) since itll put you well beyond the soft cap on both armor and spell penetration.

Set 1 - Resto Staff - single target
1)Inner Beast (Undaunted skill line, taunt)
2)Ward Ally (important that its this morph, so it shields you and not someone else)
3)Dark Exchange (heals and mana regen)
4)Boundless Storm(high amount of armor, spell resist, and 30% move speed)
5)Crystal Shards (high single target dps and knockdown as long as the mob isnt immune) and heals you for 5% max hp every time it hits
*if you have good single target dps in your group, you could possibly replace Crystal Shards with something like Combat Prayer and use heavy weapon attacks instead since they not only AoE heal you and your group, but replaces 10% mana every time. Taunt will force (most) bosses to stay on you, so your dps is less relevant.

Edit; also, the resto staff passives for 15% more healing while under 30% and a flat 5% healing bonus are boss. Pretty sure it bolsters shields too, so your ward ally will absorb stupid amounts when at low HP, and then your dark exchange will heal for stupid amounts.

Set 2- Destruction staff - AoE
1)Inner Light (+20% crit to fuel Critical Surge heals)
2)Critical Surge (heal for 65% of the damage you deal with crits, plus it makes Pulsar hit a lot harder)
3)Boundless Storm (so OP, instant tank)
4)Bolt of Lightning (Hope they fix the absorb function...) alternate ability would be combat prayer if the mobs are immune to stun.
5)Pulsar (AoE spam on adds, between that damage and the AoE from Boundless Storm, you should hold aggro pretty well)

So, what do you guys think? Will it work or not?

for vet this will not work

Ive updated the thread quite a bit since it was created. Check out those updates and let me know what you think, and why it would or wouldnt work.

Sexy! Were in the same guild lol!

Anyway I'm speaking from experance, vet bosses do allot of damage, and I use resto staff for my off bar, now please note I'm doing these vets doungons at vet 1-3 so I'm highly low leveled for those doungons. Now scorc dose have a advantage when it ces too flex abblity so maybe when I'm equally lvl bed for it it might work. Also I use heavy amour 4 pice and 3 light, I put on all light and just tried normal mobs with bound amour I feel like you get hit harder in light amour the heavy amour over all. Could be my imagination tho. I will do more testing too see if it will work later on.

Slantasiam · May 2014

I have had this set up since beta I can go in a room and kill 10-20 mobs at a time (the more the better, more chance to crit more chance to heal) with this setup I sometimes tank more then I intend to. it works on some dungeon bosses , but I would still prefer to have some heavy plated guy with a shield keeping the big guy off me.

Altissimus · May 2014

SexyVette07 wrote: »

Andy22 wrote: »

SexyVette07 wrote: »

Question, @Andy22‌ . Whats the reasoning of casting Annulment first?

If i'm not mistaken, the shield u cast last is the new "outer", aka the one that gets used up first. So u want the long lasting Annulment to cast first, so other shields are stacked over it and get used up first, so u always profit from the extra 50% spell mitigation.

PS: I played around a bit with mistform and my main problem is that u cant do anything while in this form. This is a very boring play-style and they should change this skill fundamentally.

I see, thanks for the clarification. Im going on a 5 day stretch of days off, so im going to be putting some time in. As far as mist form, yes, boring, but im sure its like that for balance reasons, otherwise, people would use it for a permanent 75% damage reduction.

Crimsonraziel wrote: »

SexyVette07 wrote: »

Pulsar is a weapon ability, and therefore its power is increased by critical surge. I know, its confusing. Its main purpose is the heals though. Inner Light + Critical Surge + Pulsar puts out some crazy heals. Would make it very easy to sustain your HP on adds and also maintain aggro. As far as Dark Exchange, its more of an "oh crap" option, but also just in case you run out of mana. No mana = dead in the water.

I wasnt aware that Bound Aegis increased spell resist, I thought it was only armor? If its spell resist too, that presents another option. Thanks for the feedback.

I was totally aware of your intention with Inner Light + Critical Surge + Pulsar.^^
I still think it's somewhat irritating and counter intuitive for those skills to scale with weapon damage, but well it is as it is. In this case it's an advantage^^ (Meanwhile I checked it myself too).
But you still lack some kind of crowdcontrol in your build.

Bound Aegis increases armor by 1000,
you already getting up to 56% bonus for 7/7 light armor for spell resistance combined with a single spell resist enchant, you'll easily reach soft cap.
You still can use Boundless Storm to raise both to hard cap if necessary.

Wearing light armor and only relying on Boundless Storm forces you to recast it every 6 seconds. It consumes a large amount of magicka and time.

Besides, what about Thundering Presence for its increased duration? 24% increased movement speed (Boundless Storm) is useless most of the time.

Did you test your build in any VR dungeon?
Would like to know how it works out.

My theorycrafting has taken a turn since this thread started, with becoming a vampire. This has forced me to rethink my strategy. I dont think Boundless Storm is necessary anymore now that I have Mistform. For the single target bar dedicated to bosses, and with the information that @Andy22‌ provided, I think the shield setup is the best way to prop up the spec while also mitigating a lot of fire damage. For the AoE bar dedicated to adds, im thinking of dropping Inner Light in favor of Restraining Prison, since I can exchange 5% crit for an AoE crowd control. I also need to test how well Bolt of Lightning absorbs projectiles from adds, I might have to do the shield setup for my aoe set if im still getting wrecked by fire damage because its not working well or as intended (lots of people are saying the absorb function is broken). So yeah, its graduated quite a bit, and I thank you all for your contributions. I also welcome any other suggestions.

I havent had time to test my build out yet. I work 12 hour shifts, so I dont have much time to play during the week. I also dont have every skill leveled up (summoning tree is only at 10 lol, so I dont even have access to Bound Aegis, not that im crazy about using one of my few active skill slots for it when I could just Mistform instead), so it may take some time to bring it all together, but I will give it a shot in the next couple days. I will report back with my findings.

Also, my intentions was never to be a full time tank with this spec. Its more or less to fill in when needed. As such, im trying not to dump unneeded skill points into skill lines that I wont use otherwise, like for heavy armor. Im heavily invested in multiple crafting skill lines, so I need to be frugal with my skill points.

Edit, I do have a question. If im using Ward Ally on my own, does it stack if a healer also casts it on me?

Inner light is 20% crit not 5%