DK Bash nerf for PVE is unacceptable

elorei · May 2014

ShintaiDK wrote: »

People will still complain like mad in PvP. When a DK tank still owns them easily while he is bunkered down behind his shield. Then they may realize that they didnt lose in PvP due to shield bash.

Well, yes and no. I agree that I am damn near unkillable by less than 4+ people as long as I can keep my stam up (the main reason I stopped using bash offensively in the first place, and switched my enchants to cost redux for block/bash), but bash did give a nice spike in damage when I needed it.

It needed to be nerfed. There was no real reason to do anything but permaroot people and bash them to death, previously.

DKs will still dominate if played right. I love my sorc, but my DK is just head and shoulders above it in power.

elorei · May 2014

Eivar wrote: »

True but not nearly as much as a sharpened hunk of metal, like a sword. there just isn't enough power there to kill someone the way the shield bash animation works, it might stop you from reciting a limmerick but it's not going to kill anyone. like having someone slam a door into you, it'll hurt but you aren't going to die.

There once was a man from Nantucket...

Haios · May 2014

I have to agree with how Chrysolis put it about the 2 groups affected by this. Those of us in Heavy Armor prioritizing tanking stats and tanking morphs are now left a little more gimpped than we initially set out. As tanks, we chose to take the path to lower dps intentionally for our utility in group settings. This includes lower stamina pools and lower magicka pools in favor of health. The problem is that viability in leveling content doesn't play into that, and we are left without a solo playstyle that will clear content efficiently. Solo content makes up at least 90% of the game.

Whether you call this a nerf, fix, exploit, or realism, it is a matter of game balance. I admit it was a bit too heavily weighted before, but has moved to the other end of the spectrum to useless. The solution the Devs chose was to address all 3 issues that people had with bash, which adjusted it, balanced it, and then destroyed it.

A lot of you say we need to pick up a different set of weapons. That sounds fine on paper, but none of the stam based weapons are viable either (with the exception of DW maybe). 2H is a joke with 1sec windups being 3 seconds (equating to 150dps), low damage, low weapon damage caps, and high resource costs. Bows are just as bad with terrible damage output per stamina and as bad normal attack damage. Maybe these just don't synergize as well with class skills.

What you're asking us to do is to respec our tank builds to pick up dps stats. If we had swappable specs, this would be easily done without any harm. With the game mechanics as they are, this eliminates any desire for me to play my role.

So I am stuck with an unviable playstyle at VR5 because the game is no longer fun due to the extent of the changes made. This, and VR content in general, has discouraged me to the point where I don't want to play the game and I feel like playing is just trying to justify prepurchasing Imperial edition. All of you 'hardcore' gamers (and trolls) can tell us to l2p, but that only weakens and diminishes a sinking ESO community.

frozenchicken · May 2014

alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »

Bash is not supposed to deal damage, it interrupts... it was doing more dps than any other weapon. I know its hard going from broken and overpowered mechanics to normal ones but you will adjust.

Also, sword and shield has too many defensive buffs to let it do more damage than DW or two handers.....

The exploit was fixed, move on.

The complaint is that the baby was thrown out with the bath water. You are correct-the exploit was fixed. However, there are good reasons why interrupting deals damage in the first place, and these reasons have been negatively effected by the nerf. The thing you need to understand is that due to the way tanking/stats work in ESO (softcaps that gradiate up), the very premise of tanking relies upon a combination of blocking (Off the top of my head, every single 1HS passive is about blocking, and at least one of the Heavy armour skills) and defensive skills in order to weather damage effectively. This means that in order to tank, you cannot even remotely spam offensive skills the way a DPS-based build can. In case you haven't realised the problem here, that means in large part, you cannot attack at all whilst blocking-you don't have much stam/magicka/ability slots usable for offense (there's some but not enough to spam or bring down mobs on their own), you cannot use light/heavy attacks without lowering your shield (which is always an option, but due to the way so many of the tank passives are invested into blocking, you might as well not have the skill line if that's your solution), and that only leaves shield interrupt. Which is now less efficient for dealing damage than spamming stamina-based crowd control skill effects like Power Bash (Possibly-needs confirmation. Power Bash is really not a good choice for using repeatedly). I would honestly be quite willing to trade one of the slots on my skill bar for a simple stamina-based damage-efficient attack that can be used repeatedly whilst blocking.

Put simply, there is an uncomplicated equilibrium here: Either you're meant to be able to fight whilst still blocking a lot of the time (albeit at lower DPS than a DD can pull off), or blocking is pointless when you're on your own and you might as well switch to a different weapon group as far as your passive skills are concerned. It'd be like saying "Here is a whole skill line that is presented as core. It boosts your damage when and ONLY when you are fighting in dungeons", you know?

I think that's the real problem. There are two trains of thought competing on the design of the matter. Some see 1HS-wielders as a meatshield class line who should be built to stand there and let the DDs deal the large majority of the damage, whilst the people using the class want to get some use* out of the skill points they've poured into the skill line during the 90% of the game when they're running solo. This discussion was further complicated by people using an unexpected build in order to massively overpower this ability, creating the exploit. Thus, we end up with 12 pages of argument consisting of people missing the real points.

*Savvy readers will note a false equivalence in the above paragraphs. Blocking should obviously be used to defend against power attacks and the passives improve that, but given the advantages gained by doing so skillfully, even DDs shouldn't be refraining from doing this. The point of contention is using it on a more frequent basis.

There are probably some typos in the above that I've missed, but I'm tired enough to be surprised I've even made a coherent argument, so I might have to do any editing later.

elorei · May 2014

Haios wrote: »

This includes lower stamina pools and lower magicka pools in favor of health.

Most everyone I play with, including pure dps guys, put every point into health. Seeing as I can overcap health AND magicka and still have enough stamina to do what I need to, I don't see how you are giving up damage doing this.

I mean, maybe you mean you are going DEEEEP into overcharged territory in your health stat by stacking it on chants AND stat points AND food, but that is not really an issue with the game, but more about your choices being poor.

RianaTheBosmer · May 2014

This is the first time I've ever seen a shield that when you knock someone in the head, it does absolutely nothing and then block, it does not block from what I can tell either. Time for me to respec my sword and board DK again. You can not use sword and board the way every other game out there allows you to use it. It's completely unacceptable.

Chrysolis · May 2014

Tanks also worry about things like regeneration, armor, and spell resist. If you're not aware, those tend to use up traits and jewelry slots. Tanks are also more prone to stamina than magicka because you often have to hide behind your shield in boss fights. As you might know, stamina is not particularly helpful offensively.

It's great that it's working out for you, but I don't think you should be criticizing other peoples' priorities for their builds, especially if they are what is standing between you and the 90 foot Daedroth of Fire.

bean19 · May 2014

Unfortunately, the game is built with RvR in mind, so they have to balance it. I would have preferred if it were built like DDO and crazy specialized builds that are OP just were allowed to be OP. Part of the fun of games is coming up with builds that are awesome. But when you add PvP to the mix, you can't do that because it wrecks the game. Everyone ends up having to use the same skills/strategies.

Chrysolis · May 2014

bean19 wrote: »

Unfortunately, the game is built with RvR in mind, so they have to balance it. I would have preferred if it were built like DDO and crazy specialized builds that are OP just were allowed to be OP. Part of the fun of games is coming up with builds that are awesome. But when you add PvP to the mix, you can't do that because it wrecks the game. Everyone ends up having to use the same skills/strategies.

I don't agree with your premise, Bean. PVP accounts for probably 10% of the content in ESO - even the PVP zone is loaded with PVE. It's something that should be considered, but not at the expense of the PVE experience that dominates their game. A fix could have been implemented that addressed both of these concerns, as I've detailed previously.

Valn · May 2014

bumping

Eivar · May 2014

Slantasiam wrote: »

Eivar wrote: »

Slantasiam wrote: »

alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »

Bash is not supposed to deal damage, it interrupts... it was doing more dps than any other weapon. I know its hard going from broken and overpowered mechanics to normal ones but you will adjust.

Also, sword and shield has too many defensive buffs to let it do more damage than DW or two handers.....

The exploit was fixed, move on.

if I hit you with a real shield trust me it will do damage......

True but not nearly as much as a sharpened hunk of metal, like a sword. there just isn't enough power there to kill someone the way the shield bash animation works, it might stop you from reciting a limmerick but it's not going to kill anyone. like having someone slam a door into you, it'll hurt but you aren't going to die.

have you ever seen old armor some of the shields used had spikes poking out the front of them, horns and blades on them this has been tried and was used effectively. a shield can and should cause some big damage. not as much as a mage causing a meteor to fall out of the sky to kill everyone (oh wait that skill couldn't kill a bunny...) but it should have some nasty damage not just a little.

yes i've seen those spiked type shields, which weren't common btw, but the point still stands. Holding something just in front of you and bashing like that realistically won't have enough force to deal significant damage. Now granted this is a game so realism only goes so far, but when a tank could 2 or 3 shot most mobs just by using shield bash, the damage is over the top. Shield Bash should deal SOME damage yes, but being able to base your dmg rotation solely around bashing and cc is just outright silly, if anything they need to buff the damage from one handed weapons up to a respectable level. IMO making bash do more damage when it actually interrupts something and less if you're just doing it is a step in the right direction, but they quite possibly made the damage values to low, in which case they will eventually buff them a bit til they find the right balance.

Drachenfier · May 2014

Loco_Mofo wrote: »

You guys are unbelievable.

It was never intended to be the DPS weapon of choice, it's supposed to be your defensive set. Can't have the best of both worlds...

Your crutch is gone, adapt or cry.

You mean, like all the crying you guys did before it was nerf? "Adapt or cry"...it's funny, we told all you pvp brats the same thing.

Anzer · May 2014

Eivar wrote: »

Slantasiam wrote: »

alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »

Bash is not supposed to deal damage, it interrupts... it was doing more dps than any other weapon. I know its hard going from broken and overpowered mechanics to normal ones but you will adjust.

Also, sword and shield has too many defensive buffs to let it do more damage than DW or two handers.....

The exploit was fixed, move on.

if I hit you with a real shield trust me it will do damage......

True but not nearly as much as a sharpened hunk of metal, like a sword. there just isn't enough power there to kill someone the way the shield bash animation works, it might stop you from reciting a limmerick but it's not going to kill anyone. like having someone slam a door into you, it'll hurt but you aren't going to die.

Real-world evidence disputes your claim, sir/madam.
youtu.be/bRZ22UCnMNk

Dymence · May 2014

Anzer wrote: »

Eivar wrote: »

Slantasiam wrote: »

alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »

Bash is not supposed to deal damage, it interrupts... it was doing more dps than any other weapon. I know its hard going from broken and overpowered mechanics to normal ones but you will adjust.

Also, sword and shield has too many defensive buffs to let it do more damage than DW or two handers.....

The exploit was fixed, move on.

if I hit you with a real shield trust me it will do damage......

True but not nearly as much as a sharpened hunk of metal, like a sword. there just isn't enough power there to kill someone the way the shield bash animation works, it might stop you from reciting a limmerick but it's not going to kill anyone. like having someone slam a door into you, it'll hurt but you aren't going to die.

Real-world evidence disputes your claim, sir/madam.
youtu.be/bRZ22UCnMNk

There would actually be a point to showing a video like that if the in-game animation of shield bash looked even remotely anything like that. As it stands, it's just a push, not really a bash.

Eivar · May 2014

Dymence wrote: »

Anzer wrote: »

Eivar wrote: »

Slantasiam wrote: »

alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »

Bash is not supposed to deal damage, it interrupts... it was doing more dps than any other weapon. I know its hard going from broken and overpowered mechanics to normal ones but you will adjust.

Also, sword and shield has too many defensive buffs to let it do more damage than DW or two handers.....

The exploit was fixed, move on.

if I hit you with a real shield trust me it will do damage......

True but not nearly as much as a sharpened hunk of metal, like a sword. there just isn't enough power there to kill someone the way the shield bash animation works, it might stop you from reciting a limmerick but it's not going to kill anyone. like having someone slam a door into you, it'll hurt but you aren't going to die.

Real-world evidence disputes your claim, sir/madam.
youtu.be/bRZ22UCnMNk

There would actually be a point to showing a video like that if the in-game animation of shield bash looked even remotely anything like that. As it stands, it's just a push, not really a bash.

Agreed, i personally haven't seen the deadly bash animation(or maybe i have who knows) but that seems more in line with what the skill deadly bash should do, the face boop shield bash though, minimal damage.

Dymence · May 2014

Eivar wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Anzer wrote: »

Eivar wrote: »

Slantasiam wrote: »

alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »

Bash is not supposed to deal damage, it interrupts... it was doing more dps than any other weapon. I know its hard going from broken and overpowered mechanics to normal ones but you will adjust.

Also, sword and shield has too many defensive buffs to let it do more damage than DW or two handers.....

The exploit was fixed, move on.

if I hit you with a real shield trust me it will do damage......

True but not nearly as much as a sharpened hunk of metal, like a sword. there just isn't enough power there to kill someone the way the shield bash animation works, it might stop you from reciting a limmerick but it's not going to kill anyone. like having someone slam a door into you, it'll hurt but you aren't going to die.

Real-world evidence disputes your claim, sir/madam.
youtu.be/bRZ22UCnMNk

There would actually be a point to showing a video like that if the in-game animation of shield bash looked even remotely anything like that. As it stands, it's just a push, not really a bash.

Agreed, i personally haven't seen the deadly bash animation(or maybe i have who knows) but that seems more in line with what the skill deadly bash should do, the face boop shield bash though, minimal damage.

Deadly bash is nothing special. It's just a passive in the one hand and shield skill tree. The shield bash looks normal as it always does.

Eivar · May 2014

Dymence wrote: »

Eivar wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Anzer wrote: »

Eivar wrote: »

Slantasiam wrote: »

alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »

Bash is not supposed to deal damage, it interrupts... it was doing more dps than any other weapon. I know its hard going from broken and overpowered mechanics to normal ones but you will adjust.

Also, sword and shield has too many defensive buffs to let it do more damage than DW or two handers.....

The exploit was fixed, move on.

if I hit you with a real shield trust me it will do damage......

True but not nearly as much as a sharpened hunk of metal, like a sword. there just isn't enough power there to kill someone the way the shield bash animation works, it might stop you from reciting a limmerick but it's not going to kill anyone. like having someone slam a door into you, it'll hurt but you aren't going to die.

Real-world evidence disputes your claim, sir/madam.
youtu.be/bRZ22UCnMNk

There would actually be a point to showing a video like that if the in-game animation of shield bash looked even remotely anything like that. As it stands, it's just a push, not really a bash.

Agreed, i personally haven't seen the deadly bash animation(or maybe i have who knows) but that seems more in line with what the skill deadly bash should do, the face boop shield bash though, minimal damage.

Deadly bash is nothing special. It's just a passive in the one hand and shield skill tree. The shield bash looks normal as it always does.

Power bash is what I was thinking of, obviously I havn't leveled sword and board to much.

Loco_Mofo · May 2014

Therium104 wrote: »

Loco_Mofo wrote: »

MrBeatDown wrote: »

Loco_Mofo wrote: »

And the irony of you now yourself crying on forums is hilarious.

Sorry your crutch is gone, guess you'll have to learn how to play properly now.

Look guys, its another one that got his butt kicked by the Exploit abusers. I bet this kid doesn't even know what the exploit was, but all of a sudden, he is the authority on bash. And doesn't even know how it functions.

Crutch comment hit a nerve aye?

Look it's a simple L2P issue, you'll get there.

Keep your chin up.

The only one who needs to l2p is you. Btw. Bads like you go from one ability to another a whine OP because you are horrible. So get lost. Soon the spec and abikities you use will be on the chopping block. If you do not think this is the case then you are naive.

Sword and board needs to be a viable pay style. A single target attack like bash gave it relevance. The change or nerf only served to diminish the game.

Hahaha it is viable, I would know, I'm still killing it with it.

Sorry your only tactic of holding block and spamming bash is no longer viable. Try using more buttons, it's pretty fun. Let me know if you want any tips, more than happy to help out the noobies.

Loco_Mofo · May 2014

Therium104 wrote: »

You don't care about balance. You care about easy mode and finding solutions to game difficulty by whining on the forums rather then using the tools in game to be successful. It is pathetic.

The nerf removed an entire play style from the game. It was single target and resulted in an effect that is replicated in different ways in the game. Like a NB killing mobs out of stealth. The mob cannot fight back....

There is no argument. No justification for the nerf to shield bash. It needs to be reverted immediately.

LMAO this guy!

The only tactic they removed was the block while spamming bash tactic that any kid could pick up in 5 seconds. Sounds like this is the only play style you know, in which case I feel sorry for you.

Your crutch is gone and your tears are delicious.

Loco_Mofo · May 2014

Drachenfier wrote: »

Loco_Mofo wrote: »

You guys are unbelievable.

It was never intended to be the DPS weapon of choice, it's supposed to be your defensive set. Can't have the best of both worlds...

Your crutch is gone, adapt or cry.

You mean, like all the crying you guys did before it was nerf? "Adapt or cry"...it's funny, we told all you pvp brats the same thing.

I never once cried about bash, not once. You want to find a post of me saying anything about it pre-fix?

In fact I still use sword & shield and it's a beast. I just never relied on the noob tactics most of the cry babies in here are sooking about.

Adapt or cry. I see which option you chose.

Mendra · May 2014

So let's make a summary for those who begin to read here :

- "Yeah i can survive and do damage at the same time, handle big groups with only two finger even in PvP... I'm am a Hero"

-"We fixed an exploit"

-" I'm nerfed, that game is diminished, not viable anymore, obviously my blahblah sub blah blah frustrated"

Seriously, you had an advantage that was not intended to be like that, they corrected it. Be happy the newcomers will not have that. Say thanks for the great time. End

rottinglimbs · May 2014

1.How is a DK going to be a threat if all he does is hold up a shield to even be a tank
2. DK use all of their mana to cast razor armour and green dragon blood. and they use up their stamina for defending and maybe one stamina based skill. and now that blocking requires more stamina DK have no room for a stamina skill.

how are DK's going to do PVE if we cant even take more than 2 mobs with just barely surviving.

who cares if tanks are supposed to do damage with a shield or not. DK's just need some sort of DPS thats cheap in energy and can clear a mob of 5 or so in PVE. we should not need to count on the enemy to cast so we can interrupt and get a kill. just imagine doing that while fighting a 4 man mob.

Attorneyatlawl · May 2014

Luciusbaine wrote: »

Gaudrath wrote: »

ShintaiDK wrote: »

Gaudrath wrote: »

Then use one of those big weapons. Or maybe two weapons!

Oh, you want to tank? Well, then tank. Why, as a tank, are you concerned with your DPS? Because that's the only thing that got changed with the Shield Bash.

Remember that comment when you stand for hours and cant find tanks for your dungeons or trials because they cant level. Then I am sure someone will tell you to L2P without tanks.

They can't level? Then how did I level? I have zero points in S&B, holy mother of... someone superglued their skills to the bar so they can't use anything else?

SB is an INTERRUPT. It's used to INTERRUPT. Not spam-bash your way to glory. It could be doing zero DPS and it would still serve its purpose as an...

...wait for it...

INTERRUPT

your an **** you are obviously leveling DK and not TANK DK, should we respec every time we need to tank ... yeah its so cheap in this game. Its very hard to level as tank DK now as you are putting all your skill points into HP and other dps out put is now very low. And yes i did use Bash and was great for larger groups and no i never used any Enchants or jewels to boost it and exploit it ...

Shield bash is and always has been meant to be an interrupt, not a free innate melee dps ability for all classes. And yes, I have leveled a tank DK, V10 in PTS and v12 live now. It's extremely easy to get through vet stuff as a DK, definitely of all 4 classes by far (though none of them are exactly what I'd call difficult, my DK took about 4 minutes on balreth, my nb got him in 40 seconds different encounters easier/harder based on class of course).

Remorseless · May 2014

It's sad that some of you baddies think spamming an interrupt should be viable damage. Cry more, lmao

Iven · May 2014

Well this has completely ruined my pVe experience. Things seriously cant ever go my way in this game. damn

justin903b14a_ESO · May 2014

12 pages for one spell,ability or whatever......

Argurios · May 2014

frozenchicken wrote: »

alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »

Bash is not supposed to deal damage, it interrupts... it was doing more dps than any other weapon. I know its hard going from broken and overpowered mechanics to normal ones but you will adjust.

Also, sword and shield has too many defensive buffs to let it do more damage than DW or two handers.....

The exploit was fixed, move on.

The complaint is that the baby was thrown out with the bath water. You are correct-the exploit was fixed. However, there are good reasons why interrupting deals damage in the first place, and these reasons have been negatively effected by the nerf. The thing you need to understand is that due to the way tanking/stats work in ESO (softcaps that gradiate up), the very premise of tanking relies upon a combination of blocking (Off the top of my head, every single 1HS passive is about blocking, and at least one of the Heavy armour skills) and defensive skills in order to weather damage effectively. This means that in order to tank, you cannot even remotely spam offensive skills the way a DPS-based build can. In case you haven't realised the problem here, that means in large part, you cannot attack at all whilst blocking-you don't have much stam/magicka/ability slots usable for offense (there's some but not enough to spam or bring down mobs on their own), you cannot use light/heavy attacks without lowering your shield (which is always an option, but due to the way so many of the tank passives are invested into blocking, you might as well not have the skill line if that's your solution), and that only leaves shield interrupt. Which is now less efficient for dealing damage than spamming stamina-based crowd control skill effects like Power Bash (Possibly-needs confirmation. Power Bash is really not a good choice for using repeatedly). I would honestly be quite willing to trade one of the slots on my skill bar for a simple stamina-based damage-efficient attack that can be used repeatedly whilst blocking.

Put simply, there is an uncomplicated equilibrium here: Either you're meant to be able to fight whilst still blocking a lot of the time (albeit at lower DPS than a DD can pull off), or blocking is pointless when you're on your own and you might as well switch to a different weapon group as far as your passive skills are concerned. It'd be like saying "Here is a whole skill line that is presented as core. It boosts your damage when and ONLY when you are fighting in dungeons", you know?

I think that's the real problem. There are two trains of thought competing on the design of the matter. Some see 1HS-wielders as a meatshield class line who should be built to stand there and let the DDs deal the large majority of the damage, whilst the people using the class want to get some use* out of the skill points they've poured into the skill line during the 90% of the game when they're running solo. This discussion was further complicated by people using an unexpected build in order to massively overpower this ability, creating the exploit. Thus, we end up with 12 pages of argument consisting of people missing the real points.

*Savvy readers will note a false equivalence in the above paragraphs. Blocking should obviously be used to defend against power attacks and the passives improve that, but given the advantages gained by doing so skillfully, even DDs shouldn't be refraining from doing this. The point of contention is using it on a more frequent basis.

There are probably some typos in the above that I've missed, but I'm tired enough to be surprised I've even made a coherent argument, so I might have to do any editing later.

You do realise you can use weapon swapping right? Shields are for tanking, not doing damage. If you had any sense, you would have levelled a 2nd weapon spec like i have with 2H. One for tanking, one for damage.

The fact remains, they fixed an exploit. They did not remove a playstyle from the game, because to call using shield bash either playing, or a style, would be an insult to everyone who plays this game by knowing their class and planning their characters correctly.

As someone said, all they did with this fix, was fix all the terrible DK players, that don't have the capacity to work out other ways of making 1H/Shield a viable choice.

I am a templar, one of the arguably weaker classes in the game. I used 1H/shield since launch, and i only ever used bash for interrupting. I am also VR10, and i did 99.9% of everything levelling on my own using 1H and shield without bashing. I levelled 2H and i sometimes feel its easier to solo groups with 1H/shield because of the raw survivability. I also kill people in pvp quite easily with 1H and shield.

All with no bash. BECAUSE I BOTHERED TO LEARN HOW TO PLAY MY CLASS.

Rather than use a broken mechanic, that uses minimal stamina in comparison to any weapon based stamina attacks to DPS, while speccing all my attribute points into other things. Like i guarantee most people here have done.

I bet half of you crying here specced everything into health/magicka. Guess what? Stamina increases your base weapon damage, which then increases all your basic and active weapon attacks. You probably got around this requirement by speccing bash.

Congratulations, you offically suck. Enjoy the attribute respec cost, and learning to play your class without a crutch from now on.

Drachenfier · May 2014

Argurios wrote: »

frozenchicken wrote: »

alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »

Bash is not supposed to deal damage, it interrupts... it was doing more dps than any other weapon. I know its hard going from broken and overpowered mechanics to normal ones but you will adjust.

Also, sword and shield has too many defensive buffs to let it do more damage than DW or two handers.....

The exploit was fixed, move on.

The complaint is that the baby was thrown out with the bath water. You are correct-the exploit was fixed. However, there are good reasons why interrupting deals damage in the first place, and these reasons have been negatively effected by the nerf. The thing you need to understand is that due to the way tanking/stats work in ESO (softcaps that gradiate up), the very premise of tanking relies upon a combination of blocking (Off the top of my head, every single 1HS passive is about blocking, and at least one of the Heavy armour skills) and defensive skills in order to weather damage effectively. This means that in order to tank, you cannot even remotely spam offensive skills the way a DPS-based build can. In case you haven't realised the problem here, that means in large part, you cannot attack at all whilst blocking-you don't have much stam/magicka/ability slots usable for offense (there's some but not enough to spam or bring down mobs on their own), you cannot use light/heavy attacks without lowering your shield (which is always an option, but due to the way so many of the tank passives are invested into blocking, you might as well not have the skill line if that's your solution), and that only leaves shield interrupt. Which is now less efficient for dealing damage than spamming stamina-based crowd control skill effects like Power Bash (Possibly-needs confirmation. Power Bash is really not a good choice for using repeatedly). I would honestly be quite willing to trade one of the slots on my skill bar for a simple stamina-based damage-efficient attack that can be used repeatedly whilst blocking.

Put simply, there is an uncomplicated equilibrium here: Either you're meant to be able to fight whilst still blocking a lot of the time (albeit at lower DPS than a DD can pull off), or blocking is pointless when you're on your own and you might as well switch to a different weapon group as far as your passive skills are concerned. It'd be like saying "Here is a whole skill line that is presented as core. It boosts your damage when and ONLY when you are fighting in dungeons", you know?

I think that's the real problem. There are two trains of thought competing on the design of the matter. Some see 1HS-wielders as a meatshield class line who should be built to stand there and let the DDs deal the large majority of the damage, whilst the people using the class want to get some use* out of the skill points they've poured into the skill line during the 90% of the game when they're running solo. This discussion was further complicated by people using an unexpected build in order to massively overpower this ability, creating the exploit. Thus, we end up with 12 pages of argument consisting of people missing the real points.

*Savvy readers will note a false equivalence in the above paragraphs. Blocking should obviously be used to defend against power attacks and the passives improve that, but given the advantages gained by doing so skillfully, even DDs shouldn't be refraining from doing this. The point of contention is using it on a more frequent basis.

There are probably some typos in the above that I've missed, but I'm tired enough to be surprised I've even made a coherent argument, so I might have to do any editing later.

Shields are for tanking, not doing damage.

Yea, and Templars are for healing, not dpsing.

Bromburak · May 2014

omg this must be a joke.
Are you seriously comparing a shield with a class?

actarus78 · May 2014

Bashing or blocking with whatever weapons different from a shield makes no sense, even in a heroic fantasy game...