1h/shield is still beastly. The gap closer is amazing. Pierce armor is absolutely amazing in both pve and pvp. Defensive stance is hilarious fun if used well (not to mention just having it on your bar adds to the "haha you can't hurt me" dk build in pvp.)

Mendra wrote: »

They didn't nerf, they didn't screw with something, they FIXED it to work as intended.

Even if fixed is the rationale. Its still broken. 72 base dmg, 108 with +100% from passives. I am sure most of us can see there is a problem, even if we assume the reduced base damage is as it should be now.

ShintaiDK wrote: »

Mendra wrote: »

They didn't nerf, they didn't screw with something, they FIXED it to work as intended.

Even if fixed is the rationale. Its still broken. 72 base dmg, 108 with +100% from passives. I am sure most of us can see there is a problem, even if we assume the reduced base damage is as it should be now.

Thats exactly 50% (+36) and apparently you didnt skill the second rank!

tankqullb16_ESO wrote: »

sagitter wrote: »

U can t really think that it was working like intended, it was just stupid, i was a bash abuser too cause it was 10 times better than dw abilities. With critic bonus around 30 % and all glyph jewellry i could bash for 450-500 dmg, more than any dw abilities that required a slot. What do u think should be more deadly in real life a shield or a sword?

well i´ve never said the nerf wasn´t needed, but i´m saying that there is a difference in balancing a skill and making it completly useless as done to bash. especially when you have in mind how horrible the dmg of s&b actually is and how none existant the mitigation "advantage" and effective-debuff values it provides are.

Maybe you should take Bash off your skill bar, oh wait, its a combat utility, not a skill.
/thread

Bromburak wrote: »

Thats exactly 50% (+36) and apparently you didnt skill the second rank!

I did. I wonder if multiple people actually tried to adjust it without talking together. Because the first rank is in reality 25%.

ShintaiDK wrote: »

Bromburak wrote: »

Thats exactly 50% (+36) and apparently you didnt skill the second rank!

I did. I wonder if multiple people actually tried to adjust it without talking together. Because the first rank is in reality 25%.

Are you wearing jewelry that affects bash damage, because the passive only buffs BASE damage, enchant damage is not boosted by it.

lol, most morons who justify bash nerf never played a DK and they do not understand those mechanics. Do not worry noobs, even without bash I will still own you in PVP in 1:1 situation as bash was never the main damage dealer.

What you do not understand is that during blocking I cannot use sword attacks (light and heavy). The only source of my damage fighting groups of Vet trash mobs are skills that burn my mana and stamina way too fast. And It was not only bash nerfed, majority of DK class skills now have higher cost of using ( i will not go into details here, too mush writing).

I do not worry too much as I can use different build and will still be in many eyes overpowered (I can even use built where i can instantly spam another skill to kill you with ease). The problem for me is that right now I cannot play the play style I wanted to play ESO from the beginning. I wanted to be heavy armored Melee class but thanks too your winning Zenimax is pushing me towards different builds that I do not enjoy.

If I do not Enjoy something I will stop playing and trust me Zenimax, this feeling is shared among thousands of subscribers. You Listen that few winners on forum and do changes for tens of thousands. Reality will hit you hard when you start recording loses in subscription numbers.

Maybe we should tart winning about stupid spell casters? Nobody can stand a few of them running others down with constant pulses etc. IS that called PvP balance?ESO turn to be just another game where the whole mechanics are tailored to pleased that group of players.
What is more Zenimax devs do not understand how to carry on balancing. Doing nerfs you upset group of players. If you improved others everyone would be happy.

Right now. I feel like I am playing game that was made by one group and another group without having sufficient knowledge about game mechanics is trying to do changes in effect causing more damage than fixes.

I think a lot of the disagreement in this thread comes from a misunderstanding of the two kinds of people that really used shield bash. Nerfing bash across the board was certainly overkill in my experience; it went from a nice utility (being able to do some damage while holding block - not a lot of damage) to basically never worth using because of the stamina cost. Certainly not worth taking the passive points, as whoever did the calculations of "100% increased damage" should probably take a mathematics course. In any case, these two "bashers" are not the same:

1. Sword & Board, Heavy Armor Tank - This is where the issue now lies and I'd include myself into this category. I'd say that most people doing this focus a great deal on stats like armor, health, spell resist, and stamina. For me and others like me, up until 1.1.2, bash was a viable way to throw in some respectable (not high) damage; think two or three times a fight. In dungeons particularly where most learned tanks will be spending a lot of time blocking, it's also the option to do some damage instead of just waiting for the mob to die. I've been in public dungeons and you couldn't possibly argue that my bash was on par with the DPS around me; so to summarize - it's not really that I or others like me want to do a lot of DPS, we'd just like it to be a viable move to use sometimes. My previous damage per bash was about 268, it's now 96. That means that it basically is not worth using the stamina to use it - ever.

2. Bash Jewelry, Critical Stacking, Medium Armor DPS - This, I'm certain, is where the nerf was supposed to hit. I can't disagree that, with the right setup, this build did too much damage and too quickly. However, this setup is not really viable to tank in - its focus around stamina, crits and bash enhancements doesn't leave a lot of room leftover to be considered a tank.

I think the problem here lies in ZOS' solution. I would say that the 2nd type certainly needed a reduction in damage - however, the 1st did not. I think this could have been accomplished in a number of more insightful ways.

• Reduce the bash-critical hit coefficient: Since the problem-child of bashing revolves around jewelry and critical hits, reducing (or even removing) bash critical hit damage would have effectively targeted the proper demographic (2nd type) that needed adjustment.
• Add a brief cool-down to bash: I can't speak for everyone, but as a tank I never personally just sat there spamming bash. I need my stamina for other skills. If I was still able to perform a substantial bash 2-3 times in a fight then I think the effect would be far less than it currently is.
• Add a bash passive into the heavy armor tree: Since most of the enormous damage being wrought was focused around the stamina/regen/crit builds, this would also be a way to keep the 1st type of bash user in a viable state while addressing the problems with the 2nd type.
• Base bash damage on Health, Armor, or both: This is somewhat self-explanatory I think - it's much more difficult to stack these stats in concordance with the crit and bash jewelry which made the skill so over the top.

I somehow doubt this will be seen, yet I really hope that the idea of shield bashing doesn't just permanently exit the ESO scene because of a few people taking advantage. I did really enjoy that aspect of the game and felt like it added a lot of flavor. I want to reiterate one last time that we, the tanky DKs using sword & board builds, usually aren't asking to do DPS-level damage as a tank. We'd just like to do some. I know that this game is not comparable to other Elder Scrolls games, yet it's worth mentioning that 1 hand + shield in those games was always a powerful build with respectable amounts of damage - I was rather content to see that it remained so in ESO, and now - well, less so.

People will still complain like mad in PvP. When a DK tank still owns them easily while he is bunkered down behind his shield. Then they may realize that they didnt lose in PvP due to shield bash.

Slantasiam wrote: »

alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »

Bash is not supposed to deal damage, it interrupts... it was doing more dps than any other weapon. I know its hard going from broken and overpowered mechanics to normal ones but you will adjust.

Also, sword and shield has too many defensive buffs to let it do more damage than DW or two handers.....

The exploit was fixed, move on.

if I hit you with a real shield trust me it will do damage......

True but not nearly as much as a sharpened hunk of metal, like a sword. there just isn't enough power there to kill someone the way the shield bash animation works, it might stop you from reciting a limmerick but it's not going to kill anyone. like having someone slam a door into you, it'll hurt but you aren't going to die.

Therium104 wrote: »

There is no argument. No justification for the nerf to shield bash. It needs to be reverted immediately.