Fix fossilize!!

Gupitoos · August 27

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hi @gammelscroll - we're happy to investigate if there is a potential bug with this ability. (We have not gotten reports of any for this ability on the PTS, thus far.) We chatted with the combat team about this, and there are a couple things we want to mention.

Fossilize is indeed a powerful CC ability, and we do see the feedback about room for improvement with the telegraph. One thing we sometimes see when reading feedback about this ability is that players will try to use CC break on the snare portion - and you cannot CC break a snare - then get hit by the stun and believe CC break is not working as it should. This behavior where the snare portion is not something a target can CC break out of is working as intended, and not a bug.

Are you running into something different? If you are, a video of the issue is most helpful, especially if you're able to show it in an insolated, clear environment

There’s no bugs with fossilize, they just try to cc break when the snare happens. Fossilize is fine and nowhere near as powerful or game breaking as Binding Javelin or Streak or the massive aoe fear warden charm.

Gupitoos · August 27

Sidewaves89 wrote: »

gammelscroll wrote: »

PvP in this game is so fun.
4300 crit resist and 33k phys/spell resist btw

You had 0k phys/spell resist since that DK used Corrosive armor. You were inside some crowd, maybe zerg, with squishy players around you and that DK killed you with AOE Lash, Incinerate, Heart of flame and Vicious Death. If you had pressed the block and tried to move away from him, you might have survived.

All he had to do is move away and block. He clearly didn’t and got rekt and is blaming it on the enemy class rather than his own noobness.

s3dulo · August 27

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

gammelscroll wrote: »

Aer we seriously waiting a other month for a tiny DK nerf that wont even be noticable??

@ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

These numbers arent even crazy, they popped corrosive, and like any damage ult you have to heal through it or avoid proximity like the huge arcanist beam.

Corrosive unlike that skill requires you to be close and also use additional skills on top of that to kill most players. Melee range skills are riskier and should hit hard otherwise there's no point using them.

I died to this skill isnt an argument for more nerfs

I agree but I do think that an AOE should not be able to hit that hard 5 times in a row under any circumstances. Flash lash should probably be a single target abilities like it was before. I actually prefer how it worked before the refresh. Extra big hits with heals on stunned/immobilized players. So many players just run VD, turtle defensively until they have a corro, pop corro, spam flame lash (which still heals them while Corro reduces their damage taken), explode a mob of players, rinse and repeat. It's bombing without sacrificing defense for damage.

Miracle19 · August 27

React wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hi @gammelscroll - we're happy to investigate if there is a potential bug with this ability. (We have not gotten reports of any for this ability on the PTS, thus far.) We chatted with the combat team about this, and there are a couple things we want to mention.

Fossilize is indeed a powerful CC ability, and we do see the feedback about room for improvement with the telegraph. One thing we sometimes see when reading feedback about this ability is that players will try to use CC break on the snare portion - and you cannot CC break a snare - then get hit by the stun and believe CC break is not working as it should. This behavior where the snare portion is not something a target can CC break out of is working as intended, and not a bug.

Are you running into something different? If you are, a video of the issue is most helpful, especially if you're able to show it in an insolated, clear environment

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom Here is a video example. I could collect a bunch more of these, it happens very frequently. Fossilize isn't the only stun this happens with, I have similar clips with javelin, streak, WW fear, etc. I imagine the prevalence of the complaints related to fossilize just have to do with how many DK players are in PVP right now. This has been a problem for years, but it has gotten much worse as of late.

Fossilize Example:
https://streamable.com/mii9lq

WW Fear Example:
https://streamable.com/mt2y2q

Javelin Example:
https://streamable.com/o5gtuj

This exist with every unblockable stun. It’s exclusively why warden charm is so strong, last super long and cannot break free.

Wuuffyy · August 27

Gupitoos wrote: »

gammelscroll wrote: »

PvP in this game is so fun.
4300 crit resist and 33k phys/spell resist btw

gammelscroll wrote: »

PvP in this game is so fun.
4300 crit resist and 33k phys/spell resist btw

Try holding block next time and you won’t take all that damage.

Block through the delayed stun they can spam-attempt to land on you with no frills thanks to Core of Flame’s sustain? 0.o

Wuuffyy · August 27

@gammelscroll it made me chuckle to see an official response within a page of ‘fossilize bugged’ with a direct/indirect response from the combat team meanwhile they just:

-double-tripled costs on werewolf invalidating playstyles like mag

-returned no damage (or defiles to combat HPS) after modifying their own sustain/damage equation for werewolf

-affected PvE not once by twice (costs and then certainly and completely making pure sorc wolf a non-competitive damage dealer) despite being ‘content with the state of werewolf PvE’ and even though Sorc wasn’t even ‘top dog’

-(not the combat team per say by equally important) completely shut off all customized animations with a 1-2 response that equated to ‘because we felt like it’

xD

HunterDawn · August 27

Wuuffyy wrote: »

Gupitoos wrote: »

gammelscroll wrote: »

PvP in this game is so fun.
4300 crit resist and 33k phys/spell resist btw

gammelscroll wrote: »

PvP in this game is so fun.
4300 crit resist and 33k phys/spell resist btw

Try holding block next time and you won’t take all that damage.

Block through the delayed stun they can spam-attempt to land on you with no frills thanks to Core of Flame’s sustain? 0.o

That guy is just trolling, absolute classic. 😅

HunterDawn · August 27

Wuuffyy wrote: »

@gammelscroll it made me chuckle to see an official response within a page of ‘fossilize bugged’ with a direct/indirect response from the combat team meanwhile they just:

-double-tripled costs on werewolf invalidating playstyles like mag

-returned no damage (or defiles to combat HPS) after modifying their own sustain/damage equation for werewolf

-affected PvE not once by twice (costs and then certainly and completely making pure sorc wolf a non-competitive damage dealer) despite being ‘content with the state of werewolf PvE’ and even though Sorc wasn’t even ‘top dog’

-(not the combat team per say by equally important) completely shut off all customized animations with a 1-2 response that equated to ‘because we felt like it’

xD

It’s obvious Werewolf players are written off. My guess is the dev team’s next Werewolf nerf will be barring class‑specific sets from working while shapeshifted.😅

Luneca · August 27

Gupitoos wrote: »

Sidewaves89 wrote: »

gammelscroll wrote: »

PvP in this game is so fun.
4300 crit resist and 33k phys/spell resist btw

You had 0k phys/spell resist since that DK used Corrosive armor. You were inside some crowd, maybe zerg, with squishy players around you and that DK killed you with AOE Lash, Incinerate, Heart of flame and Vicious Death. If you had pressed the block and tried to move away from him, you might have survived.

All he had to do is move away and block. He clearly didn’t and got rekt and is blaming it on the enemy class rather than his own noobness.

What an interesting take. I literally cannot understand the DK/Sorc players on this game. You can literally use both classes to push offense in a way that there isn't any counterplay, and that offense happens in windows where both classes also have defense at the same time due to things like Corrosive/Streak/Wings/Masteries and...

They claim it's a skill issue when the person on the other side that isn't playing one of those classes loses? It takes no skill to literally cycle the same exact rotation hiding behind extreme shielding or damage reduction until the skill bugs out, your opponent messes up, lag happens, or for whatever reason they fold.

Like you know, not being able to sustain as well as a DK with a one-button sustain skill. Or a Sorc with a mastery that literally keeps their bars full of mag and stam if they have even the minimum amount of skill to balance mag and stam use because we're all hybrid anyway, at least the players that know better.

DKs already have an inherent advantage versus everyone else, and it looks like ZOS doesn't care that Fossilize adds to that and won't be adjusting the skill.

Just pile it on with the rest of the terrible changes that have happened over the years that make no sense. Because the decision-makers can never be wrong and can never make a mistake. That's exactly why none of them appear on the forums even once to entertain any form of debate around of some of the worst offending items regarding balance in this game.

Call me when one appears and explains why a delay was added on this skill in the first place. If it was problematic, in relation to the kit on the old DK, after buffing DK so much why wasn't it scrapped? Just to take space or does the team seriously think that the skill adds identity rather than a buggy CC no one really enjoys to play against?

Please, team don't use a mediator. Just enter Cyrodiil on any night, and the servers are lagging really bad right now these days, and experience fighting a DK yourself. Bonus points if you use ANY class other than DK/Sorc.

I swear it will take only ONE battle for an eye-opening experience. You'll only need to experience petrify only once to understand the issue. Corrosive as well.

Even better if you encounter a group of DKs.

Wuuffyy · August 27

HunterDawn wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

@gammelscroll it made me chuckle to see an official response within a page of ‘fossilize bugged’ with a direct/indirect response from the combat team meanwhile they just:

-double-tripled costs on werewolf invalidating playstyles like mag

-returned no damage (or defiles to combat HPS) after modifying their own sustain/damage equation for werewolf

-affected PvE not once by twice (costs and then certainly and completely making pure sorc wolf a non-competitive damage dealer) despite being ‘content with the state of werewolf PvE’ and even though Sorc wasn’t even ‘top dog’

-(not the combat team per say by equally important) completely shut off all customized animations with a 1-2 response that equated to ‘because we felt like it’

xD

It’s obvious Werewolf players are written off. My guess is the dev team’s next Werewolf nerf will be barring class‑specific sets from working while shapeshifted.😅

If they just didn't flat out lie about what it's supposed to be capable of/allowed to have on a consistent basis- I wouldn't have as much of a problem. It's a 'burst warrior' without any burst, it's 'mag viable' but that's no longer the case under stress as myself and many others have demonstrated, it has to lose damage for sustain but can't have the damage returned after losing the sustain.

As far as PvP goes, unless you're wanting to be a high-HP bruiser with marginal damage (a noob killer), I don't see how werewolf on PTS is ANY better than prior-rework tbh. I'd go as far to say it's a downgrade on PTS and then a complete downgrade when they inevitably adjust health-based healing doing the road. Like I've said before, 'good players' can make it work for now but I've been doing that for years with arguably better tools for the job.

What a joke.

Gupitoos · August 27

gammelscroll wrote: »

PvP in this game is so fun.
4300 crit resist and 33k phys/spell resist btw

Try holding block next time and you won’t take all that damage.

Luneca wrote: »

Gupitoos wrote: »

Sidewaves89 wrote: »

gammelscroll wrote: »

PvP in this game is so fun.
4300 crit resist and 33k phys/spell resist btw

You had 0k phys/spell resist since that DK used Corrosive armor. You were inside some crowd, maybe zerg, with squishy players around you and that DK killed you with AOE Lash, Incinerate, Heart of flame and Vicious Death. If you had pressed the block and tried to move away from him, you might have survived.

All he had to do is move away and block. He clearly didn’t and got rekt and is blaming it on the enemy class rather than his own noobness.

What an interesting take. I literally cannot understand the DK/Sorc players on this game. You can literally use both classes to push offense in a way that there isn't any counterplay, and that offense happens in windows where both classes also have defense at the same time due to things like Corrosive/Streak/Wings/Masteries and...

They claim it's a skill issue when the person on the other side that isn't playing one of those classes loses? It takes no skill to literally cycle the same exact rotation hiding behind extreme shielding or damage reduction until the skill bugs out, your opponent messes up, lag happens, or for whatever reason they fold.

Like you know, not being able to sustain as well as a DK with a one-button sustain skill. Or a Sorc with a mastery that literally keeps their bars full of mag and stam if they have even the minimum amount of skill to balance mag and stam use because we're all hybrid anyway, at least the players that know better.

DKs already have an inherent advantage versus everyone else, and it looks like ZOS doesn't care that Fossilize adds to that and won't be adjusting the skill.

Just pile it on with the rest of the terrible changes that have happened over the years that make no sense. Because the decision-makers can never be wrong and can never make a mistake. That's exactly why none of them appear on the forums even once to entertain any form of debate around of some of the worst offending items regarding balance in this game.

Call me when one appears and explains why a delay was added on this skill in the first place. If it was problematic, in relation to the kit on the old DK, after buffing DK so much why wasn't it scrapped? Just to take space or does the team seriously think that the skill adds identity rather than a buggy CC no one really enjoys to play against?

Please, team don't use a mediator. Just enter Cyrodiil on any night, and the servers are lagging really bad right now these days, and experience fighting a DK yourself. Bonus points if you use ANY class other than DK/Sorc.

I swear it will take only ONE battle for an eye-opening experience. You'll only need to experience petrify only once to understand the issue. Corrosive as well.

Even better if you encounter a group of DKs.

Every class can stalemate and even beat a DK 1v1 on the live servers now with the right builds and stuff like onslaught. Just stop crying, they need to speed up the class reworks and it won’t happen the longer people keep crying about nonsense.

Bushido2513 · August 27

Gupitoos wrote: »

Sidewaves89 wrote: »

gammelscroll wrote: »

PvP in this game is so fun.
4300 crit resist and 33k phys/spell resist btw

You had 0k phys/spell resist since that DK used Corrosive armor. You were inside some crowd, maybe zerg, with squishy players around you and that DK killed you with AOE Lash, Incinerate, Heart of flame and Vicious Death. If you had pressed the block and tried to move away from him, you might have survived.

All he had to do is move away and block. He clearly didn’t and got rekt and is blaming it on the enemy class rather than his own noobness.

To be clear you shouldn't be face tanking an ult from a decent build and player.

What we're talking about is the ability to stay offensive with hard hitting attacks.

The death recap doesn't really tell the whole story, just how it ended.

Death recap doesn't also tell us how many people were fighting, visual effects were on screen, ping time, etc.

DK is currently setup to the take advantage of all of these while t having mobility and excellent defenses. Definitely the apex predator and then some.

So yes you can avoid the ult sometimes but often they come up so fast that before you know it you're dead or nearly there and even if you can mount an offensive they can block and use wings to just make time to build up a stronger counter.

Obviously there are good and bad dks but the kit is so easy that there are more seemingly strong ones than there probably should be

ZOS_JessicaFolsom · August 27

gammelscroll wrote: »

React wrote: »

Here is a video example. I could collect a bunch more of these, it happens very frequently. Fossilize isn't the only stun this happens with, I have similar clips with javelin, streak, WW fear, etc. I imagine the prevalence of the complaints related to fossilize just have to do with how many DK players are in PVP right now. This has been a problem for years, but it has gotten much worse as of late.

Fossilize Example:
https://streamable.com/mii9lq

WW Fear Example:
https://streamable.com/mt2y2q

Javelin Example:
https://streamable.com/o5gtuj

Thanks for the videos bro!

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom are you watching these?

Yep, got them and am sharing them with QA and the Combat team. Thank you!

Luneca · August 27

Gupitoos wrote: »

Every class can stalemate and even beat a DK 1v1 on the live servers now with the right builds and stuff like onslaught. Just stop crying, they need to speed up the class reworks and it won’t happen the longer people keep crying about nonsense.

Explain how every class can stalemate a DK when there's a sustain advantage? If they out sustain me at every turn explain how I can beat them. I am always ready to learn, especially from the players that know better than I do. It is a forum after all.

Don't just tell, show.

Because I find that hard to believe that, absent a massive gulf in skills, a DK would be on the same level as a Templar, Necro, Arcanist, or NB. I've used the same exact builds on all the classes and not only does DK outsustain them consistently, it outdamages them.

And that's before we even talk about the "offense-defensive" window that's only available to Sorc/DK right now. If the other opponent cannot achieve the same sustain, has less damage through the system having buffed DK's damage with the rework, and DK also has attack and defense (more actions in a unit time) than the opponent facing one, then how exactly is there not an inehrent advantage.

And you're going on a tangent. We're talking about a singular skill. A skill that isn't even needed to be slotted by DK because of the overlap with Wings, but it is because of its buggy and unpredictable behavior that lets DKs score kills they otherwise wouldn't be able to.

It's not a mystery or hidden information at this point, everyone knows it and that's why there's a thread about it. But you bring the skill argument, and that's going to be where I have to disagree especially when the system tilts the favor in the DK's direction from the start.

Petrify has no real place in the DK's kit after the rework anyway. It's literally looking like it's there just for filler. It's inferior in every situation vs Wings except in the case you need someone to get bugged and caught in that CC. That's reality on the live server. And it's also why it's almost exclusively used by players that do nothing besides spam it, heal up, hold block and wait until you get perma-CC'd and can't break from it.

You know, just like the old Dizzy Swing a few patches that got nerfed when everyone was spamming it without even needing to think. But it's okay this time because DK has been "reworked". "Petrify is a class ability, it should be strong" or the devs response: "Players are just making errors".

This is why the game's balance is never going to improve.

albertberku · August 27

Who would ever try to break free snare part of Petrify? You dont ever notice you get snared during normal flow. I didnt even know that there was a snare part of this skill. There is no animation, no effect, no nothing. During normal gameplay, you dont even see Petrify hand animation if you dont fight a single player and especially waiting for the hand animation of the Petrify. It is crystal clear that you got hit with something only after when the rock animation around you plays and you actually get stunned.

gammelscroll · August 27

Gupitoos wrote: »

gammelscroll wrote: »

PvP in this game is so fun.
4300 crit resist and 33k phys/spell resist btw

gammelscroll wrote: »

PvP in this game is so fun.
4300 crit resist and 33k phys/spell resist btw

Try holding block next time and you won’t take all that damage.

Like i mentioned earlier here,.i always tap block when Iam fighting. Even when i block my HP just vaporate .

And btw i was killed in an unblockable fozzilize spam that you cant break free from

BardokRedSnow · August 27

React wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hi @gammelscroll - we're happy to investigate if there is a potential bug with this ability. (We have not gotten reports of any for this ability on the PTS, thus far.) We chatted with the combat team about this, and there are a couple things we want to mention.

Fossilize is indeed a powerful CC ability, and we do see the feedback about room for improvement with the telegraph. One thing we sometimes see when reading feedback about this ability is that players will try to use CC break on the snare portion - and you cannot CC break a snare - then get hit by the stun and believe CC break is not working as it should. This behavior where the snare portion is not something a target can CC break out of is working as intended, and not a bug.

Are you running into something different? If you are, a video of the issue is most helpful, especially if you're able to show it in an insolated, clear environment

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom Here is a video example. I could collect a bunch more of these, it happens very frequently. Fossilize isn't the only stun this happens with, I have similar clips with javelin, streak, WW fear, etc. I imagine the prevalence of the complaints related to fossilize just have to do with how many DK players are in PVP right now. This has been a problem for years, but it has gotten much worse as of late.

Fossilize Example:
https://streamable.com/mii9lq

WW Fear Example:
https://streamable.com/mt2y2q

Javelin Example:
https://streamable.com/o5gtuj

Goated, people always pointing to the latest and greatest as an issue, when it’s been an issue for every cc in Cyrodiil.

BardokRedSnow · August 27

s3dulo wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

gammelscroll wrote: »

Aer we seriously waiting a other month for a tiny DK nerf that wont even be noticable??

@ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

These numbers arent even crazy, they popped corrosive, and like any damage ult you have to heal through it or avoid proximity like the huge arcanist beam.

Corrosive unlike that skill requires you to be close and also use additional skills on top of that to kill most players. Melee range skills are riskier and should hit hard otherwise there's no point using them.

I died to this skill isnt an argument for more nerfs

I agree but I do think that an AOE should not be able to hit that hard 5 times in a row under any circumstances. Flash lash should probably be a single target abilities like it was before. I actually prefer how it worked before the refresh. Extra big hits with heals on stunned/immobilized players. So many players just run VD, turtle defensively until they have a corro, pop corro, spam flame lash (which still heals them while Corro reduces their damage taken), explode a mob of players, rinse and repeat. It's bombing without sacrificing defense for damage.

I think there should be payoff for how flame lash now works. It’s hard to get off balance on targets with heavy attack if you’re using just melee, you’d have to go staff to make this simpler and even then you still gotta then hit someone after with the flame lash to trigger it. You get five lashes yes after but it’s very obvious what’s going on when you slap em down and just spam all five in a row, you do that and people will just block/heal/shield up if they’re smart

The damage is also being nerfed as is the heal. Really the only way I’d be okay with this changed is if they made it easier to proc off balance, like with fossilize again. Less clunky and less cheesy damage I’d be okay with, especially if less predictable.

Wuuffyy · August 27

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

React wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hi @gammelscroll - we're happy to investigate if there is a potential bug with this ability. (We have not gotten reports of any for this ability on the PTS, thus far.) We chatted with the combat team about this, and there are a couple things we want to mention.

Fossilize is indeed a powerful CC ability, and we do see the feedback about room for improvement with the telegraph. One thing we sometimes see when reading feedback about this ability is that players will try to use CC break on the snare portion - and you cannot CC break a snare - then get hit by the stun and believe CC break is not working as it should. This behavior where the snare portion is not something a target can CC break out of is working as intended, and not a bug.

Are you running into something different? If you are, a video of the issue is most helpful, especially if you're able to show it in an insolated, clear environment

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom Here is a video example. I could collect a bunch more of these, it happens very frequently. Fossilize isn't the only stun this happens with, I have similar clips with javelin, streak, WW fear, etc. I imagine the prevalence of the complaints related to fossilize just have to do with how many DK players are in PVP right now. This has been a problem for years, but it has gotten much worse as of late.

Fossilize Example:
https://streamable.com/mii9lq

WW Fear Example:
https://streamable.com/mt2y2q

Javelin Example:
https://streamable.com/o5gtuj

Goated, people always pointing to the latest and greatest as an issue, when it’s been an issue for every cc in Cyrodiil.

Javelin is the latest and greatest? Spoken like a true Dragon(main)born!

Bushido2513 · August 27

Gupitoos wrote: »

gammelscroll wrote: »

PvP in this game is so fun.
4300 crit resist and 33k phys/spell resist btw

gammelscroll wrote: »

PvP in this game is so fun.
4300 crit resist and 33k phys/spell resist btw

Try holding block next time and you won’t take all that damage.

Luneca wrote: »

Gupitoos wrote: »

Sidewaves89 wrote: »

gammelscroll wrote: »

PvP in this game is so fun.
4300 crit resist and 33k phys/spell resist btw

You had 0k phys/spell resist since that DK used Corrosive armor. You were inside some crowd, maybe zerg, with squishy players around you and that DK killed you with AOE Lash, Incinerate, Heart of flame and Vicious Death. If you had pressed the block and tried to move away from him, you might have survived.

All he had to do is move away and block. He clearly didn’t and got rekt and is blaming it on the enemy class rather than his own noobness.

What an interesting take. I literally cannot understand the DK/Sorc players on this game. You can literally use both classes to push offense in a way that there isn't any counterplay, and that offense happens in windows where both classes also have defense at the same time due to things like Corrosive/Streak/Wings/Masteries and...

They claim it's a skill issue when the person on the other side that isn't playing one of those classes loses? It takes no skill to literally cycle the same exact rotation hiding behind extreme shielding or damage reduction until the skill bugs out, your opponent messes up, lag happens, or for whatever reason they fold.

Like you know, not being able to sustain as well as a DK with a one-button sustain skill. Or a Sorc with a mastery that literally keeps their bars full of mag and stam if they have even the minimum amount of skill to balance mag and stam use because we're all hybrid anyway, at least the players that know better.

DKs already have an inherent advantage versus everyone else, and it looks like ZOS doesn't care that Fossilize adds to that and won't be adjusting the skill.

Just pile it on with the rest of the terrible changes that have happened over the years that make no sense. Because the decision-makers can never be wrong and can never make a mistake. That's exactly why none of them appear on the forums even once to entertain any form of debate around of some of the worst offending items regarding balance in this game.

Call me when one appears and explains why a delay was added on this skill in the first place. If it was problematic, in relation to the kit on the old DK, after buffing DK so much why wasn't it scrapped? Just to take space or does the team seriously think that the skill adds identity rather than a buggy CC no one really enjoys to play against?

Please, team don't use a mediator. Just enter Cyrodiil on any night, and the servers are lagging really bad right now these days, and experience fighting a DK yourself. Bonus points if you use ANY class other than DK/Sorc.

I swear it will take only ONE battle for an eye-opening experience. You'll only need to experience petrify only once to understand the issue. Corrosive as well.

Even better if you encounter a group of DKs.

Every class can stalemate and even beat a DK 1v1 on the live servers now with the right builds and stuff like onslaught. Just stop crying, they need to speed up the class reworks and it won’t happen the longer people keep crying about nonsense.

So just suffer a gameplay experience currently so that we can get a better one in the future if we even make it there instead of asking for fixes now and enjoying the game while we wait for the other changes?

How does that make sense? I'm not paying for an experience later. I want to enjoy the game now. This class refreshes aren't guaranteed and even when they come there's nothing to say that it won't be underwhelming or worse than expected.

This company doesn't have a great reputation for making plates happy so to me, what they can do for us right now mattress way more than refreshes I hope we make it to and I hope I enjoy.

ceruulean · August 27

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

gammelscroll wrote: »

React wrote: »

Here is a video example. I could collect a bunch more of these, it happens very frequently. Fossilize isn't the only stun this happens with, I have similar clips with javelin, streak, WW fear, etc. I imagine the prevalence of the complaints related to fossilize just have to do with how many DK players are in PVP right now. This has been a problem for years, but it has gotten much worse as of late.

Fossilize Example:
https://streamable.com/mii9lq

WW Fear Example:
https://streamable.com/mt2y2q

Javelin Example:
https://streamable.com/o5gtuj

Thanks for the videos bro!

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom are you watching these?

Yep, got them and am sharing them with QA and the Combat team. Thank you!

Are you sharing the bash-cc bug with the combat team too? I suspect multiple issues are conflated. The steps to reproduce are listed here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/663596/cc-break-and-bash-big-issue

I can confirm that I've been perma CC'd by mender guards in the past and had an unbreakable bubble.

Radiate77 · August 27

Notice how the only stuns being used, are the ones guaranteeing a free hit afterwards.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom

When “fixing” some of these other CC mentioned by @React consider the impact of removing that guaranteed hit. Every skill on your bar is in direct competition with each other.

We have lived through a time when no CC guaranteed a hit, and players opted out entirely. Stuns, Fears, Knockbacks and Charms all have a place at present, please do not cause irreparable damage to the identity of these skills behind the scenes when fixing Fossilize.

Gupitoos · August 27

Luneca wrote: »

Gupitoos wrote: »

Every class can stalemate and even beat a DK 1v1 on the live servers now with the right builds and stuff like onslaught. Just stop crying, they need to speed up the class reworks and it won’t happen the longer people keep crying about nonsense.

Explain how every class can stalemate a DK when there's a sustain advantage? If they out sustain me at every turn explain how I can beat them. I am always ready to learn, especially from the players that know better than I do. It is a forum after all.

Don't just tell, show.

Because I find that hard to believe that, absent a massive gulf in skills, a DK would be on the same level as a Templar, Necro, Arcanist, or NB. I've used the same exact builds on all the classes and not only does DK outsustain them consistently, it outdamages them.

And that's before we even talk about the "offense-defensive" window that's only available to Sorc/DK right now. If the other opponent cannot achieve the same sustain, has less damage through the system having buffed DK's damage with the rework, and DK also has attack and defense (more actions in a unit time) than the opponent facing one, then how exactly is there not an inehrent advantage.

And you're going on a tangent. We're talking about a singular skill. A skill that isn't even needed to be slotted by DK because of the overlap with Wings, but it is because of its buggy and unpredictable behavior that lets DKs score kills they otherwise wouldn't be able to.

It's not a mystery or hidden information at this point, everyone knows it and that's why there's a thread about it. But you bring the skill argument, and that's going to be where I have to disagree especially when the system tilts the favor in the DK's direction from the start.

Petrify has no real place in the DK's kit after the rework anyway. It's literally looking like it's there just for filler. It's inferior in every situation vs Wings except in the case you need someone to get bugged and caught in that CC. That's reality on the live server. And it's also why it's almost exclusively used by players that do nothing besides spam it, heal up, hold block and wait until you get perma-CC'd and can't break from it.

You know, just like the old Dizzy Swing a few patches that got nerfed when everyone was spamming it without even needing to think. But it's okay this time because DK has been "reworked". "Petrify is a class ability, it should be strong" or the devs response: "Players are just making errors".

This is why the game's balance is never going to improve.

I am not going to give you my builds, but any competent pvper knows any class can stalemate and kill DKs on the live now, work it out. In many cases it involves onslaught ulti and broken sets like maarselok, gorethief, kjalnar’s.
Out of all the classes, the kill is hardest for arcanist but they can stalemate.

albertberku · August 27

The thing is Petrify has started to act that buggy after the DK update. There is definitely something off with that skill. I personally never experienced anything close to something like that with Streak. Javelin and Fear are a bit more problematic, i agree. But i still dont feel like they are in the same position as new Petrify in terms of how buggy of a CC they are. I believe this has something to do with the delayed mechanic of the new Petrify. There has to be some code part there, that occasionally doesnt register the stun after the delay so that it cant be broken free for some extended period.

Saying that Petrify has about the same level of unreliability as Javelin or WW Fear would be a massive understatement in my experience.

Gupitoos · August 27

gammelscroll wrote: »

Gupitoos wrote: »

gammelscroll wrote: »

PvP in this game is so fun.
4300 crit resist and 33k phys/spell resist btw

gammelscroll wrote: »

PvP in this game is so fun.
4300 crit resist and 33k phys/spell resist btw

Try holding block next time and you won’t take all that damage.

Like i mentioned earlier here,.i always tap block when Iam fighting. Even when i block my HP just vaporate .

And btw i was killed in an unblockable fozzilize spam that you cant break free from

You need to be actively holding block when those hits land on you or you would have to get extremely lucky for them to land on that 0.5 second where you tapped it.

Flame lash is busted and broken for sure, the changes on it are more than welcome but at the same time it’s perfectly counterable and very easy to deal with once you know to avoid the scribed off balance or to spot the heavy attack off balance and then you simply wait for them to finish spamming it while you’re blocking it. And you can always CC them as they’re doing it too.

Luneca · August 28

Gupitoos wrote: »

Luneca wrote: »

Gupitoos wrote: »

Every class can stalemate and even beat a DK 1v1 on the live servers now with the right builds and stuff like onslaught. Just stop crying, they need to speed up the class reworks and it won’t happen the longer people keep crying about nonsense.

Explain how every class can stalemate a DK when there's a sustain advantage? If they out sustain me at every turn explain how I can beat them. I am always ready to learn, especially from the players that know better than I do. It is a forum after all.

Don't just tell, show.

Because I find that hard to believe that, absent a massive gulf in skills, a DK would be on the same level as a Templar, Necro, Arcanist, or NB. I've used the same exact builds on all the classes and not only does DK outsustain them consistently, it outdamages them.

And that's before we even talk about the "offense-defensive" window that's only available to Sorc/DK right now. If the other opponent cannot achieve the same sustain, has less damage through the system having buffed DK's damage with the rework, and DK also has attack and defense (more actions in a unit time) than the opponent facing one, then how exactly is there not an inehrent advantage.

And you're going on a tangent. We're talking about a singular skill. A skill that isn't even needed to be slotted by DK because of the overlap with Wings, but it is because of its buggy and unpredictable behavior that lets DKs score kills they otherwise wouldn't be able to.

It's not a mystery or hidden information at this point, everyone knows it and that's why there's a thread about it. But you bring the skill argument, and that's going to be where I have to disagree especially when the system tilts the favor in the DK's direction from the start.

Petrify has no real place in the DK's kit after the rework anyway. It's literally looking like it's there just for filler. It's inferior in every situation vs Wings except in the case you need someone to get bugged and caught in that CC. That's reality on the live server. And it's also why it's almost exclusively used by players that do nothing besides spam it, heal up, hold block and wait until you get perma-CC'd and can't break from it.

You know, just like the old Dizzy Swing a few patches that got nerfed when everyone was spamming it without even needing to think. But it's okay this time because DK has been "reworked". "Petrify is a class ability, it should be strong" or the devs response: "Players are just making errors".

This is why the game's balance is never going to improve.

I am not going to give you my builds, but any competent pvper knows any class can stalemate and kill DKs on the live now, work it out. In many cases it involves onslaught ulti and broken sets like maarselok, gorethief, kjalnar’s.
Out of all the classes, the kill is hardest for arcanist but they can stalemate.

Here we go, the secret knowledge attempt. I'll tell you exactly how I handle petrify reliably and other nonsense that the devs refuse to address on Live: I just slot Curse-Eater . When ZOS puts these broken CCs that don't work properly in the game, I just slot Curse Eater. If you know how it works and what I meant by the systemic interactions in that Sorc post, you know.

And on the class that I am using to be a "PRO" right now, Sorc. I just clear it and just Streak the DK, negate and kill them. Unless they are stacking so much HP and holding block, which at that point the DK is just a petrify spammer and nothing else anyway, which is exactly what was discussed up there.

But having only one class be able to do that is not a counter and doesn't mean the skill is fine. In fact, it's only possible for that to happen because we're using one overloaded part of the system versus another. And I honestly do not even think the devs understand how powerful some of the interactions in the game are, as evident by them simply saying that people are doing the wrong thing when encountering the skill. It doesn't even matter what people do when encountering the skill, it's the possible follow ups that matter more.

Even if that were true that players always do the wrong thing or do it often, it means it's a design issue. But it's not just that, petrify after its changes literally bug out and you cannot break free. CC on the game is also broken. I used the free ESO+ to go to Blackwood and got CC'd 3x in a row by a boss in the Oblivion portal and had to break free three times. And that's in PvE.

I get it. Players use a skill and it allows them to instantly kill their enemy and they somehow equate that to fair and balanced play, then come to the forums when people say its terrible and doesn't work and defend it. But what's fair and balanced is subjective.

But that subjectivity that used to be acknowledged by players in PvP is now ignored because all people care about is winning. Only winning is "fun" so we must go on the forums and pretend and use any means necessary to defend what's broken that we use.

And fun means broken CCs that can be spammed without abandon until a person can't break free without the help of cleansing sets. But when that's realized, then we have to come back to the forums and start arguing the cleansing sets are broken because it will ruin that "fun".

I don't need your build, I have my own kind and I play in a different way than you or anyone else does. And if I wanted to just win, I know exactly what to use. There's like 30 broken builds that will get cut after PTS that aren't cut yet on live I can use, but I don't because I can only enjoy fighting in a game where I can lose.

A crazy idea for some, that a player would want a competitive environment to have competition. If competency means always reaching for what's broken to win, I guess I don't fall into that category.

Also, imagine saying Arcanist is #1 at anything when they are extinct in PvP. A DK should outsustain them every time or that's a skill issue on the DK's part. And again, show don't tell. A claim that ridiculous should be backed up.

HunterDawn · August 28

Luneca wrote: »

Gupitoos wrote: »

Luneca wrote: »

Gupitoos wrote: »

Every class can stalemate and even beat a DK 1v1 on the live servers now with the right builds and stuff like onslaught. Just stop crying, they need to speed up the class reworks and it won’t happen the longer people keep crying about nonsense.

Explain how every class can stalemate a DK when there's a sustain advantage? If they out sustain me at every turn explain how I can beat them. I am always ready to learn, especially from the players that know better than I do. It is a forum after all.

Don't just tell, show.

Because I find that hard to believe that, absent a massive gulf in skills, a DK would be on the same level as a Templar, Necro, Arcanist, or NB. I've used the same exact builds on all the classes and not only does DK outsustain them consistently, it outdamages them.

And that's before we even talk about the "offense-defensive" window that's only available to Sorc/DK right now. If the other opponent cannot achieve the same sustain, has less damage through the system having buffed DK's damage with the rework, and DK also has attack and defense (more actions in a unit time) than the opponent facing one, then how exactly is there not an inehrent advantage.

And you're going on a tangent. We're talking about a singular skill. A skill that isn't even needed to be slotted by DK because of the overlap with Wings, but it is because of its buggy and unpredictable behavior that lets DKs score kills they otherwise wouldn't be able to.

It's not a mystery or hidden information at this point, everyone knows it and that's why there's a thread about it. But you bring the skill argument, and that's going to be where I have to disagree especially when the system tilts the favor in the DK's direction from the start.

Petrify has no real place in the DK's kit after the rework anyway. It's literally looking like it's there just for filler. It's inferior in every situation vs Wings except in the case you need someone to get bugged and caught in that CC. That's reality on the live server. And it's also why it's almost exclusively used by players that do nothing besides spam it, heal up, hold block and wait until you get perma-CC'd and can't break from it.

You know, just like the old Dizzy Swing a few patches that got nerfed when everyone was spamming it without even needing to think. But it's okay this time because DK has been "reworked". "Petrify is a class ability, it should be strong" or the devs response: "Players are just making errors".

This is why the game's balance is never going to improve.

I am not going to give you my builds, but any competent pvper knows any class can stalemate and kill DKs on the live now, work it out. In many cases it involves onslaught ulti and broken sets like maarselok, gorethief, kjalnar’s.
Out of all the classes, the kill is hardest for arcanist but they can stalemate.

Here we go, the secret knowledge attempt. I'll tell you exactly how I handle petrify reliably and other nonsense that the devs refuse to address on Live: I just slot Curse-Eater . When ZOS puts these broken CCs that don't work properly in the game, I just slot Curse Eater. If you know how it works and what I meant by the systemic interactions in that Sorc post, you know.

And on the class that I am using to be a "PRO" right now, Sorc. I just clear it and just Streak the DK, negate and kill them. Unless they are stacking so much HP and holding block, which at that point the DK is just a petrify spammer and nothing else anyway, which is exactly what was discussed up there.

But having only one class be able to do that is not a counter and doesn't mean the skill is fine. In fact, it's only possible for that to happen because we're using one overloaded part of the system versus another. And I honestly do not even think the devs understand how powerful some of the interactions in the game are, as evident by them simply saying that people are doing the wrong thing when encountering the skill. It doesn't even matter what people do when encountering the skill, it's the possible follow ups that matter more.

Even if that were true that players always do the wrong thing or do it often, it means it's a design issue. But it's not just that, petrify after its changes literally bug out and you cannot break free. CC on the game is also broken. I used the free ESO+ to go to Blackwood and got CC'd 3x in a row by a boss in the Oblivion portal and had to break free three times. And that's in PvE.

I get it. Players use a skill and it allows them to instantly kill their enemy and they somehow equate that to fair and balanced play, then come to the forums when people say its terrible and doesn't work and defend it. But what's fair and balanced is subjective.

But that subjectivity that used to be acknowledged by players in PvP is now ignored because all people care about is winning. Only winning is "fun" so we must go on the forums and pretend and use any means necessary to defend what's broken that we use.

And fun means broken CCs that can be spammed without abandon until a person can't break free without the help of cleansing sets. But when that's realized, then we have to come back to the forums and start arguing the cleansing sets are broken because it will ruin that "fun".

I don't need your build, I have my own kind and I play in a different way than you or anyone else does. And if I wanted to just win, I know exactly what to use. There's like 30 broken builds that will get cut after PTS that aren't cut yet on live I can use, but I don't because I can only enjoy fighting in a game where I can lose.

A crazy idea for some, that a player would want a competitive environment to have competition. If competency means always reaching for what's broken to win, I guess I don't fall into that category.

Also, imagine saying Arcanist is #1 at anything when they are extinct in PvP. A DK should outsustain them every time or that's a skill issue on the DK's part. And again, show don't tell. A claim that ridiculous should be backed up.

That guy is just a troll.😅

BardokRedSnow · August 28

Wuuffyy wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

React wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hi @gammelscroll - we're happy to investigate if there is a potential bug with this ability. (We have not gotten reports of any for this ability on the PTS, thus far.) We chatted with the combat team about this, and there are a couple things we want to mention.

Fossilize is indeed a powerful CC ability, and we do see the feedback about room for improvement with the telegraph. One thing we sometimes see when reading feedback about this ability is that players will try to use CC break on the snare portion - and you cannot CC break a snare - then get hit by the stun and believe CC break is not working as it should. This behavior where the snare portion is not something a target can CC break out of is working as intended, and not a bug.

Are you running into something different? If you are, a video of the issue is most helpful, especially if you're able to show it in an insolated, clear environment

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom Here is a video example. I could collect a bunch more of these, it happens very frequently. Fossilize isn't the only stun this happens with, I have similar clips with javelin, streak, WW fear, etc. I imagine the prevalence of the complaints related to fossilize just have to do with how many DK players are in PVP right now. This has been a problem for years, but it has gotten much worse as of late.

Fossilize Example:
https://streamable.com/mii9lq

WW Fear Example:
https://streamable.com/mt2y2q

Javelin Example:
https://streamable.com/o5gtuj

Goated, people always pointing to the latest and greatest as an issue, when it’s been an issue for every cc in Cyrodiil.

Javelin is the latest and greatest? Spoken like a true Dragon(main)born!

i was referring to fossilize and people complaining stating its a problem when its literally every cc in lag.

As shown

Yall gotta relax here lol

Mr_Arce88 · August 28

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hi @gammelscroll - we're happy to investigate if there is a potential bug with this ability. (We have not gotten reports of any for this ability on the PTS, thus far.) We chatted with the combat team about this, and there are a couple things we want to mention.

Fossilize is indeed a powerful CC ability, and we do see the feedback about room for improvement with the telegraph. One thing we sometimes see when reading feedback about this ability is that players will try to use CC break on the snare portion - and you cannot CC break a snare - then get hit by the stun and believe CC break is not working as it should. This behavior where the snare portion is not something a target can CC break out of is working as intended, and not a bug.

Are you running into something different? If you are, a video of the issue is most helpful, especially if you're able to show it in an insolated, clear environment

yes, there is a bug and everybody who plays PvP knows about it - sometimes you can't break free of the stun at all. Nothing works. This is not me being rooted (where I can do stuff with my character just in place), this is me breaking free and game ignoring it making me just a marble statue for DK to power lash (power lash a spammable hits harder than ulti btw, but that's of course completely balanced right?).

Buffing DK to the point of godhood and leaving all other refreshes for next year is a spit in face of playerbase. Don't be surprised that players are leaving en masse.

Gupitoos · August 28

No one’s leaving the game tho, if anything there’s lots of new players, nice try tho. They just need to speed up the class reworks.