Pure Templars are facing extinction with u51

DarkStrifeYT · August 18

I don't think ZoS understands that healing requires damage increases in order for the healing to be good. Removing the minor sorcery and replacing it with armor is only making the templar heal weaker which is already weaker than the arcanist and warden. Templar needs more damage, not armor. Templar is one of the weakest classes right now in both pvm and pvp pure classing. Especially in pvp where movement is key, every "stand your ground" templar just gets walked past because people would rather go away from a turtling templar than actually spending 10 minutes trying to fight it, and if the templar isn't turtling they are destroyed in 5 seconds because they cannot heal enough or even deal enough damage to survive. In PvM I've seen and been the victim of being kicked from trial and dungeon groups because of my pure class templar. The masteries are trash as well, there is nothing good for the templar and it really needs a closer work because if u51 is going to go out the way it is templar is going from an It to a Was. I've played templar over 11 years and only seen it get worse. I've tried making new characters but all of them feel alien vs what im used to with the templar. Please reconsider the current plans with templar and work on offensive stats than defensive.

Luneca · August 18

I think they already know what you've said. The question is whether or not they care. And care enough to walk back the terrible change that they are trying to push for templars.

For me, I don't wear a single heavy piece and I don't and still won't stack resistances -- it's a nerf. Flat out nerf to all of my builds.

I never thought I would see the day I would lose damage for being an offensive build in an MMO, but we are in 2026. This is ESO...

Treeshka · August 18

I guess the idea is to turn templar into Paladin archetype where you wear big metallic heavy armor with big sword.

Oceanchanter · August 18

That's an overly dramatic way to put it.

It would happen sooner or later.
AFAIK the changes were taken from their plans for the class refresh.

ItsNotLiving · August 18

Templar Warden Nightblade Arcanist and Necro are just werewolf food dude that’s what they want.

kevkj · August 18

I don't think they're kicking you from trial and dungeon groups explicitly because you are a templar.

Munkfist · August 18

kevkj wrote: »

I don't think they're kicking you from trial and dungeon groups explicitly because you are a templar.

Was thinking this same thing.

Marto · August 18

Let's assume a build with 20k armor, 4000 unbuffed weapon/spell damage, and 4 Templar skill slotted.

On live, once you add illuminate, balanced warrior, and major brutality:

+6% armor
+39.9% weapon/spell damage

For that same hypothetical build in the PTS, that would become:

+26.4% armor
+32.0% weapon/spell damage

This build would be losing 5.6% of their weapon/spell damage. Assuming 30k stamina/magicka, your average tooltip damage would be lowered by 3.7%. And the DPS loss would be lower than that.

We're talking about a fairly minor DPS loss in exchange for a pretty substantial armor buff.

And if there's even a single DK in your group? Then it's straight up a buff compared to what you had before. Aproximately a 3.8% buff to your weapon/spell damage.

DarkStrifeYT · August 19

kevkj wrote: »

I don't think they're kicking you from trial and dungeon groups explicitly because you are a templar.

When you are told to "Subclass the templar or switch characters" and i follow up with a : why whats wrong with it? -gets kicked from the group they desperately needed another person-

Idk if thats just a thing or something but i rarely join groups but been trying to get into trials out of pure curiosity after all this time but decided to run with randoms. Idk if thats the norm or not.

peacenote · August 19

Munkfist wrote: »

kevkj wrote: »

I don't think they're kicking you from trial and dungeon groups explicitly because you are a templar.

Was thinking this same thing.

Well, some of us care enough about our teams to proactively switch and not "gimp" the team if it's not what's best for the team. It isn't just about being kicked.

Marto wrote: »

And if there's even a single DK in your group? Then it's straight up a buff compared to what you had before. Aproximately a 3.8% buff to your weapon/spell damage.

There are just so many scenarios where relying on having a DK in your group is a bad strategy. Dungeons, BG's, not being in a group in IC, etc. I am a group/team player over any solo content but even for me there's soooo many times I'm playing without a DK in my group. It's like saying "well it's a buff if there's a full moon on Saturday" or something. Sure it might happen but that doesn't make it good or defensible as a "nice" change.

All I know is, my "main" is a Templar and I so miss the days when we were BIS healers, at least. Now we are BIS nothings, in any content, from what I can tell, and it's such a bummer because I love the class so much. Not sure if I'm more afraid of the feel of the class being unrecognizable after its rework, or it being the worst class after the reworks. Both seem like possibilities, maybe even coexisting potential outcomes, the way things seem to be going.

CatalinaWineMixer2 · August 19

DarkStrifeYT wrote: »

kevkj wrote: »

I don't think they're kicking you from trial and dungeon groups explicitly because you are a templar.

When you are told to "Subclass the templar or switch characters" and i follow up with a : why whats wrong with it? -gets kicked from the group they desperately needed another person-

Idk if thats just a thing or something but i rarely join groups but been trying to get into trials out of pure curiosity after all this time but decided to run with randoms. Idk if thats the norm or not.

The problem is the characters are more unbalanced than at any time in 11 years. Subclassing caused this mess. And it is no longer 'Play how you want'. Because our characters are so inferior and broken. And the refreshes to make them viable are 2030 and beyond. Instead of them just removing the actual problem and that is Subclass. People are being punished for playing the characters they purchased the game to play! And they're quitting now because it is crystal clear that all of the reworks will be nerfed into complete uselessness due to the remains of what once was a very large and vibrant PvP Community. And that small pond will not be satisfied until they're playing alone with an end of service date. And thats the course we are now on. The next update spells it out like a neon sign.

Firstmep · August 19

CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »

DarkStrifeYT wrote: »

kevkj wrote: »

I don't think they're kicking you from trial and dungeon groups explicitly because you are a templar.

When you are told to "Subclass the templar or switch characters" and i follow up with a : why whats wrong with it? -gets kicked from the group they desperately needed another person-

Idk if thats just a thing or something but i rarely join groups but been trying to get into trials out of pure curiosity after all this time but decided to run with randoms. Idk if thats the norm or not.

The problem is the characters are more unbalanced than at any time in 11 years. Subclassing caused this mess. And it is no longer 'Play how you want'. Because our characters are so inferior and broken. And the refreshes to make them viable are 2030 and beyond. Instead of them just removing the actual problem and that is Subclass. People are being punished for playing the characters they purchased the game to play! And they're quitting now because it is crystal clear that all of the reworks will be nerfed into complete uselessness due to the remains of what once was a very large and vibrant PvP Community. And that small pond will not be satisfied until they're playing alone with an end of service date. And thats the course we are now on. The next update spells it out like a neon sign.

Werewolves are topping the dps charts left right and center in pve, but zos choose to hit their sustain, which will have a much larger impact in pvp anyway.
Werewolf will not in fact be nerfed into uselessness.

Dks are getting a net buff in pve and some moderate to slight nerfs in pvp.

Templars are getting a slight buff with balanced warrior, and fairly decent one with lancer, both of those will help them in pve.

The devs have been adding more and more battle spirit stipulations to passives and active skills specifically to allow them balance the two separately.

Subclassing is an issue for sure and they should imo focus more on masteries going forward, but to say reworked Classes are getting destroyed is very hyperbolic.

Arbitrator · August 28

Treeshka wrote: »

I guess the idea is to turn templar into Paladin archetype where you wear big metallic heavy armor with big sword.

this would be nice for once... the Templar has been nothing but a glorified Priest with a Spear since 2014 lol... everything cool they have ever had or gotten has been stripped away and given to others, and other classes versions were made to be even better.

- Blinding Light removed and Major Evasion changed from Dodge Chance to AoE DMG Reduction took away Templar evasive identity. No flavor given back, except maybe Light Weaver passive which is more of a block than a dodge. Functionally the same I guess for all intents and purposes, but the whole point of playing a class is to feel like that class. I want to feel like a Templar when I play Templar. Otherwise, what's the point in having different classes?
- no AoE CC so Tank Templars were always worst at performing their role as a Tank. Survivability has usually been ok, just not damage or utility.
- Radiant Destruction was unique, now Templar execute has been overshadowed by Arcanist. They didn't even leave the 50% threshold, its 30% like everyone else. More homogenization. You get a beam and you get a beam and you get a beam...
- Cleansing Ritual used to heal AND damage enemies at the same time, now it does one or the other. Even though we are supposed to fight inside it... It should always do both if they are hellbent on Templars fighting inside their Sacred Ground.
- Their recovery and resistance buffs (Rune Focus) require you to stand in a 3 meter circle while everyone else gets to pop theirs on the fly, AND some of the others even grant the recovery/buffs to their whole group.
- 6 enemy target cap on their attacks completely ruined Radial Sweep defensive prowess, another Unique effect gone. Also gutted Puncturing Strikes/Jabs with the target cap. Templars attacks should be UNCAPPED when damaging enemies inside their Sacred Ground.
- Warden was given most of the unique healing and buffs that Templar used to have.
- Sun Shield used to be good in 1.0, but now every other class has better shields and some of them give the shields to their allies as well lol all while costing the same or less in resources

I could go on and on...

Daoin · August 28

no doubt my templar healer will stay subclassed for now even though i am tempted to change back to full class now, i will wait for templar refresh and see what it brings before changing i think

frogthroat · August 28

Templar has been neglected for a very long time. Now with those class masteries Templar finally became usable again but we all knew it's not going to last. Who was surprised they're going to nerf Templar back to the bottom as soon as possible?

Valkanos · August 28

And it's not enough. They should nerf all builds! Parsing 150k++ just to bypass mechanics and make a handful of players happy is completely nonsensical in a game where content should be completed by doing the mechanics, not skipping them!
Every class in this game should be nerfed hard. We need mechanics back. This game needs to punish players for their mistakes, not reward them!

Daoin · August 28

i have 2 templars for some reason did not feel right just to respec the roles, still enjoy playing them both, one is subclassed for now healer, and pure dd.

Daoin · August 28

Valkanos wrote: »

And it's not enough. They should nerf all builds! Parsing 150k++ just to bypass mechanics and make a handful of players happy is completely nonsensical in a game where content should be completed by doing the mechanics, not skipping them!
Every class in this game should be nerfed hard. We need mechanics back. This game needs to punish players for their mistakes, not reward them!

you could argue it is the content and not the players dps that is wrong for alot of players, it says the same thing just means something else. if they continue to release the content for our chars to play with the current scheme of things it is surely the content that needs an overhaul, meaning deeper more meaningful play not just trash and bosses, dont get me wrong i still enjoy all content just guessing at stuff

would just like to add i still do not think all classed should be even close to which can or cannot pull major dps but should have better strengths and weaknesses, raid logs and scorepushers killed thier own game

Morvan · August 28

DarkStrifeYT wrote: »

kevkj wrote: »

I don't think they're kicking you from trial and dungeon groups explicitly because you are a templar.

When you are told to "Subclass the templar or switch characters" and i follow up with a : why whats wrong with it? -gets kicked from the group they desperately needed another person-

Idk if thats just a thing or something but i rarely join groups but been trying to get into trials out of pure curiosity after all this time but decided to run with randoms. Idk if thats the norm or not.

There will be a DK in your group giving you the same buff you lost which makes the issue non-existent.

Daoin · August 28

DarkStrifeYT wrote: »

kevkj wrote: »

I don't think they're kicking you from trial and dungeon groups explicitly because you are a templar.

When you are told to "Subclass the templar or switch characters" and i follow up with a : why whats wrong with it? -gets kicked from the group they desperately needed another person-

Idk if thats just a thing or something but i rarely join groups but been trying to get into trials out of pure curiosity after all this time but decided to run with randoms. Idk if thats the norm or not.

question: how did you even end up conversing with someone to point they said subclass or we'll kick you ? rule of thumb for me is if i am in group and someones muscling other over thier eso char to just leave the group or guild

Valkanos · August 28

Daoin wrote: »

Valkanos wrote: »

And it's not enough. They should nerf all builds! Parsing 150k++ just to bypass mechanics and make a handful of players happy is completely nonsensical in a game where content should be completed by doing the mechanics, not skipping them!
Every class in this game should be nerfed hard. We need mechanics back. This game needs to punish players for their mistakes, not reward them!

you could argue it is the content and not the players dps that is wrong for alot of players, it says the same thing just means something else. if they continue to release the content for our chars to play with the current scheme of things it is surely the content that needs an overhaul, meaning deeper more meaningful play not just trash and bosses, dont get me wrong i still enjoy all content just guessing at stuff

would just like to add i still do not think all classed should be even close to which can or cannot pull major dps but should have better strengths and weaknesses, raid logs and scorepushers killed thier own game

If we keep increasing DPS, adding stronger DPS sets and pushing higher and higher parses, what is the actual purpose of that DPS if new content then has to use damage immunity phases to prevent players from simply burning through the encounter?
It feels like we're creating a problem and then designing the content around preventing the solution to that problem. (And ZOS knows this. That's exactly why they add this immunity nonsense instead of nerfing player power).

And it creates another issue with older content. New players aren't learning the encounter; they're watching everyone else bypass it.
If the answer is make bosses more resistant to our increasing DPS, add immunity phases, increase HP, or create mechanics specifically designed to stop DPS from mattering, then why are we constantly pushing DPS higher in the first place?
I'd rather see player power and encounter design brought back into a healthier balance, where DPS helps you execute the encounter more efficiently, but doesn't allow you to completely erase the mechanics.
The game should reward players for playing the mechanics, not for having enough DPS to make the mechanics irrelevant.

Just explain it to me...
What's the logic behind adding new sets that provide more DPS and more DPS, only to then add immunity phases to stop that DPS from being used? Please, explain that to me.

Daoin · August 28

but i lready know i am not just going to walkthrough and burn all content evertime, infact it hardly ever happens that way 99% f the things i do are still very challenging with most of the groups i join and those that are not are alot of fun we never seem to skip all mechs though either way, people just get confused after only spending time in organized optomized groups about whats going on in the open world finding a high end optomized group chance for most players is very low and in alot of times an optomized build wont change the outcome that the content cannot be cleared even with the group joined wether one or two players in the group claim to be end gamers anyway.
for me personally one of my major dislike, just one is voice chat with people i dont really know and theres one disadvantage playing eso to tons of players from the start

Valkanos · August 28

I really need to start streaming and record my ESO gameplay, because sometimes I feel like I'm playing a completely different game from everyone else.
I play ESO without relying on external software like Discord and such. I mostly play the game as it is, inside the game itself, and I primarily do Trials and dungeons, since I've already completed all the quests.
So every time I read someone say something like, "I don't experience the problem you're describing", it honestly just makes me want to start recording my gameplay and show my actual experience in ESO.
Not just so people on forums can see what I'm talking about, but so everyone outside can see what ESO actually is and how bad the game has become because of DPS power creep.

Daoin · August 28

i do experience the problems you are describing its just not as bigger issue as to keep finding the next reason to change something rather than come up with one long lasting solution despite what the people think
without sounding antagonizing i really think for some players its a you problem, you can clear all content and make t look easy as ppie so everyone should able to do so and should be doing it, and while the game is being optomized around the few that can we look back and complain about how it effects the game instead of just saying it x thats wrong not y
also how many times have we seen change x or i'll convince more masses to leave it has been changed yet here we are today in the same boat hoping we'll get atlease inbetween updates of without sweeping change gameplay

Daoin · August 28

question though (please take into accounft the last few years of eso sweeping change) why could we all not have just been happy to wait for all class refreshed to be done rather than complain about the only 2 that had been done and insisting on comparing them to the not yet updated classes and waste time with more change just to delay the next one ? we know thats going to not work well in the end right ?

Valkanos · August 28

Daoin wrote: »

question though (please take into accounft the last few years of eso sweeping change) why could we all not have just been happy to wait for all class refreshed to be done rather than complain about the only 2 that had been done and insisting on comparing them to the not yet updated classes and waste time with more change just to delay the next one ? we know thats going to not work well in the end right ?

I could explain that very directly. But then all you'll read is [snip][snip], because the truth hurts. So I'll leave that for someone else to answer.
But honestly? Because nobody seems to have the courage to put an end to all this nonsense and admit that constantly changing everything isn't necessarily making ESO better.

Daoin · August 28

After ESO redation public released information

The [snip] and all along the most important thing [snip] and all that was due to [snip] while in the meantine the players [snip] and it all ends up being [snip] good job though.

released for public view 8/28/2026

Daoin · August 29

definately not extinction, i mentioned early was hesitant to go full templar healer again right now but did anyway and it feels great. finally pure temp healing again. very enjoyable class to heal with

LadyGP · August 29

kevkj wrote: »

I don't think they're kicking you from trial and dungeon groups explicitly because you are a templar.

You'd be surprised. Lots of templars for trials are being told to subclass or switch. Templars are going somewhat niche.

-

Daoin · August 29

LadyGP wrote: »

kevkj wrote: »

I don't think they're kicking you from trial and dungeon groups explicitly because you are a templar.

You'd be surprised. Lots of templars for trials are being told to subclass or switch. Templars are going somewhat niche.

-

niche in niche part of eso gameplay maybe haha otherwise alive and well ty, however is it true we soon lose minor sorcery ? that will be a hit for the healers and loss for thier teams too
thanks to hear say though, i wont be looking forward to joining random groups with my templar healer after this update. likely spend more time with warden healing until something happens, bit boring compared to templar to be honest

katanagirl1 · August 29

Daoin wrote: »

definately not extinction, i mentioned early was hesitant to go full templar healer again right now but did anyway and it feels great. finally pure temp healing again. very enjoyable class to heal with

A lack of dps representation is effectively an extinction. Since I benched my PvP templar I have leveled up another character with another class to Grand Overlord, it has been years since templar was fun to play.