Magicka Based Werewolves now Gutted (yes in PvE)

Wuuffyy · August 5

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

What I find weird is that they went though all this trouble with calculations which thing should be reduced by what amount instead of doing something really simple, less problematic and overall better for everyone:

They should have just added "this effect does not work under the effect of transformation" to Wards & Sorc class mastery passives.

^ You know, the ones that are very strong on its own. It is weird since initially when they were adding class mastery passives to the game, they added "save-guards" to NB's class mastery passives - making them kinda um... useless in PvP, but hey, at least there were no "nerf NB threads" cuz of that & NB can be playable in PvE. Why only NB got this treatment ?

If they would do something really simple - target nerf 2 specific WW builds - WW would not be super strong (as again, only those 2 builds are) and WW overall would have more build options and those builds while different - would be more or less on the same power level. Same for the Warden & sorc passive - unlike NB's class mastery passives, those would still be usable in PvP & would be still very strong on their own. So, the nerf would be minimal with almost no collateral damage.

But what we are getting instead is that WW will be only usable on sorc and will be again kinda useless in PvE on most builds and Magicka WW will be out of the picture entirely.

The crusade to nerf werewolf has resulted in me being borderline forced me to:

-stack health for healing while my healing has been continuously reduced patch after patch (someone cited up to 43% using the same build for Hircine’s bounty prior to the rework); this with a main focus point of wep/spell damage healing still being fully unviable in every way (30k+ stam and 6.7k wep/spell nets me only 6.4k healing and a 12% damage-taken increase for 20 seconds)

-still have to run 40k+ health just so I can heal myself and not be one shot by over-the-top damage combos possible nowadays with DK/corro/bonk/etc. (especially thanks to hyper-morph-dependent minor protection and no minor resolve for neutral game) yet still have no more than 20k stam (with little sustain) meaning I become stam broken easily when my goal is just to be capable of healing myself well like everyone else (for example, I vigor and pop dragon’s blood on my DK to full-heal at low/health for nearly 35k health on a crit within seconds… with near-infinite stam and mag sustain).

-I had to ‘lose damage’ ‘in exchange for that sustain’ and then have the sustain ripped away with none of the damage returned yet must lose even more damage distributing my stats far too greatly to achieve similar results to my DK or a pure sorc. Lost damage in-kit from pre-rework includes-

(Berserker bleed DPS nerf and significant duration nerf too)

(Claws damage per cast significantly reduced, up time reduced, and major/minor defile removed)

(Wep/spell modifier nerfed from 18% to 10%)

(15% plus damage lost on my main spammable from pre-rework along with conditional increase in damage)

(30% stam removed albeit ‘density’ remains)

I tried it dueling on PTS without CoE and it feels like absolute… yeah. It doesn’t feel powerful with a horrific trifecta of no sustain, low in-kit damage, and no burst while any damage I have is wholly carried by procs.

Wuuffyy · August 6

coop500 wrote: »

It would be perfectly balanced and fair to let Magicka werewolves exist. Make the burst heal cost stamina, and the rest cost Magicka if the blue stuff is your highest max. WE HAVE THE SYSTEM ALREADY! It works for Arcanist!

Agreed. ‘Highest Stat’/‘Lowest Stat’ scaling is absolutely the way to go if they keep this sustain model. I don’t know what they’re doing with costs either-

sorc seems unphased, everything else feels like garbage, they’ve returned no damage at all despite many abilities having a ‘standard cost’ and yet the spammable is still ripe for the CoE exploitation, PvP changes affecting PvE for no apparent reason according to their own words…

…unhinged.

Wuuffyy · August 7

Solo berserker outside of constant corpse feed (which still feels and plays awful on controller) is the absolute worst experience.

Spec’ing into damage just to lose up to 100 ult evey 10 second while gaining on average 30 ult every 10 (light ult-gen buff)… feels awful, even with the Call of The Pack.

At least this was a damage option prior to rework that offered a consistent experience solo while in active combat. Now, it feels like an unnecessary chore to the point that picking this is not something I want to do not based on the mitigation trade-off but more so the feasibility than anything else.

I don’t feel like this is how ‘feeding’ as a werewolf should translate in gameplay.

If anything, this is testimony to ‘just because something can be done doesn’t mean it feels great/is rewarding enough’.

Wuuffyy · August 10

Kartalin wrote: »

Why focus on magicka since hybridization happened? Just curious

So you can transform and the most optimal build by a longshot isn’t just stamina.

Werewolf obviously wants you to build health but a viable path this patch is to build some health and some mag which affords you more heals (even if at likely lower health values).

In other words, I can be a full magicka sorcerer that is also a werewolf, and that is viable, effective, and not to mention fun; this fitting of a ‘reworked’ spec/class.

*edit: my mind is limited as I’ve always been a dirty stamina player with my old stam blade, stamplar, stam sorc, stamden but the possibilities at this moment with mag specs are far more expansive than just ‘magicka sorc’

Chrlynsch · August 10

Wuuffyy wrote: »

Solo berserker outside of constant corpse feed (which still feels and plays awful on controller) is the absolute worst experience.

Spec’ing into damage just to lose up to 100 ult evey 10 second while gaining at 30 ult every 10 (light ult-gen buff)… feels awful, even with the Call of The Pack.

At least this was a damage option prior to rework that offered a consistent experience solo while in active combat. Now, it feels like an unnecessary chore to the point that picking this is not something I want to do not based on the mitigation trade-off but more so the feasibility than anything else.

I don’t feel like this is how ‘feeding’ as a werewolf should translate in gameplay.

If anything, this is testimony to ‘just because something can be done doesn’t mean it feels great/is rewarding enough’.

Should come out to 68 ult every 10 seconds (without help from class passives), but I get where you are coming from. IMO changing the fury cap to 500 and reduce the rampage time to 10 seconds would go a long way for berserker and Magicka based WWs.

Wuuffyy · August 10

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

Solo berserker outside of constant corpse feed (which still feels and plays awful on controller) is the absolute worst experience.

Spec’ing into damage just to lose up to 100 ult evey 10 second while gaining at 30 ult every 10 (light ult-gen buff)… feels awful, even with the Call of The Pack.

At least this was a damage option prior to rework that offered a consistent experience solo while in active combat. Now, it feels like an unnecessary chore to the point that picking this is not something I want to do not based on the mitigation trade-off but more so the feasibility than anything else.

I don’t feel like this is how ‘feeding’ as a werewolf should translate in gameplay.

If anything, this is testimony to ‘just because something can be done doesn’t mean it feels great/is rewarding enough’.

Should come out to 68 ult every 10 seconds (without help from class passives), but I get where you are coming from. IMO changing the fury cap to 500 and reduce the rampage time to 10 seconds would go a long way for berserker and Magicka based WWs.

I’m not even sure if it’d call it ‘Rampage’ at that point, more like a ‘fit of anger’.

I personally like the longer duration in PvE AND PvP, especially given that reducing this to half essentially requires me to spend 2 and not just 1 GCD performing more (just like the exe dot) no-impact, relatively sluggish animations.

Not to mention, it’s akin to other ‘transformation ults’ at its current value like Vamp Lord/Necro Goliath.

I’d think they should only do this if they slightly speed up fury gen to compensate or add something meaningful to the actual cast of rampage itself (gimme 1 singular instance of snare removal in PvP, for example). But I have a feeling, knowing ZOS that they’d just gear this like another ‘nerf’ with absolutely no room for any supplement.

Chrlynsch · August 10

Wuuffyy wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

Solo berserker outside of constant corpse feed (which still feels and plays awful on controller) is the absolute worst experience.

Spec’ing into damage just to lose up to 100 ult evey 10 second while gaining at 30 ult every 10 (light ult-gen buff)… feels awful, even with the Call of The Pack.

At least this was a damage option prior to rework that offered a consistent experience solo while in active combat. Now, it feels like an unnecessary chore to the point that picking this is not something I want to do not based on the mitigation trade-off but more so the feasibility than anything else.

I don’t feel like this is how ‘feeding’ as a werewolf should translate in gameplay.

If anything, this is testimony to ‘just because something can be done doesn’t mean it feels great/is rewarding enough’.

Should come out to 68 ult every 10 seconds (without help from class passives), but I get where you are coming from. IMO changing the fury cap to 500 and reduce the rampage time to 10 seconds would go a long way for berserker and Magicka based WWs.

I’m not even sure if it’d call it ‘Rampage’ at that point, more like a ‘fit of anger’.

I personally like the longer duration in PvE AND PvP, especially given that reducing this to half essentially requires me to spend 2 and not just 1 GCD performing more (just like the exe dot) no-impact, relatively sluggish animations.

Not to mention, it’s akin to other ‘transformation ults’ at its current value like Vamp Lord/Necro Goliath.

I’d think they should only do this if they slightly speed up fury gen to compensate or add something meaningful to the actual cast of rampage itself (gimme 1 singular instance of snare removal in PvP, for example). But I have a feeling, knowing ZOS that they’d just gear this like another ‘nerf’ with absolutely no room for any supplement.

At that point just ask to remove the GCD from its activation would make it a lot more fluid and less clunky to activate (think synergy or potion activation) than its current form.

Wuuffyy · August 10

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

Solo berserker outside of constant corpse feed (which still feels and plays awful on controller) is the absolute worst experience.

Spec’ing into damage just to lose up to 100 ult evey 10 second while gaining at 30 ult every 10 (light ult-gen buff)… feels awful, even with the Call of The Pack.

At least this was a damage option prior to rework that offered a consistent experience solo while in active combat. Now, it feels like an unnecessary chore to the point that picking this is not something I want to do not based on the mitigation trade-off but more so the feasibility than anything else.

I don’t feel like this is how ‘feeding’ as a werewolf should translate in gameplay.

If anything, this is testimony to ‘just because something can be done doesn’t mean it feels great/is rewarding enough’.

Should come out to 68 ult every 10 seconds (without help from class passives), but I get where you are coming from. IMO changing the fury cap to 500 and reduce the rampage time to 10 seconds would go a long way for berserker and Magicka based WWs.

I’m not even sure if it’d call it ‘Rampage’ at that point, more like a ‘fit of anger’.

I personally like the longer duration in PvE AND PvP, especially given that reducing this to half essentially requires me to spend 2 and not just 1 GCD performing more (just like the exe dot) no-impact, relatively sluggish animations.

Not to mention, it’s akin to other ‘transformation ults’ at its current value like Vamp Lord/Necro Goliath.

I’d think they should only do this if they slightly speed up fury gen to compensate or add something meaningful to the actual cast of rampage itself (gimme 1 singular instance of snare removal in PvP, for example). But I have a feeling, knowing ZOS that they’d just gear this like another ‘nerf’ with absolutely no room for any supplement.

At that point just ask to remove the GCD from its activation would make it a lot more fluid and less clunky to activate (think synergy or potion activation) than its current form.

I suppose if it were in their wheelhouse of ability and consideration, they would have done it. I mean, you’re still casting a skill (same as the exe dot), it’s just lacks fluidity and ergo is awkward as hell. Hence why doubling that awkwardness would be bleh to me without any other beneficial changes.

But in all seriousness, a good player in PvP tries to ‘save their ult’ for the right moment (for me in Rampage, when I use it when I need oomph on damage or I commonly use it to relocate through an open field using the burst healing sustain and MS), this would be a direct nerf for me and what I consider an avenue of ‘skillful’ use.

Wuuffyy · August 11

Panderbander wrote: »

Udrath wrote: »

It needed to be increased. It might as well be 0 for how cheap their abilities were. Werewolf also has a passive that gives them increased stamina resource gains from heavy attacking (50%). Just heavy attack weave like most werewolves did before the rework.

Nevermind the werewolf heavies take AGES to carry out AND were nerfed during their rework (or, at least the zerker heavies were)

This, this is brutal. I have always hated that heavy attacks also will only restore any stamina if played completely through. Even if cancelled at the last few milliseconds. Really puts a pin in playing around the off-balance stun in PvP especially.

Wuuffyy · August 14

coop500 wrote: »

It would be perfectly balanced and fair to let Magicka werewolves exist. Make the burst heal cost stamina, and the rest cost Magicka if the blue stuff is your highest max. WE HAVE THE SYSTEM ALREADY! It works for Arcanist!

Yes we do. And yet complete silence on this front as well

Again, PvP is all sorc for no apparent reason other than clear misidentification of ‘problematic behavior’.

Wuuffyy · August 18

Still unfortunately no real word on this whatsoever.