Give me my dot time back. I need my 10 seconds on claws and my 4 seconds on berserker. You listened to the select few at the expense of everyone, now throw me a bone or two. @ZOS_Kevin other people play this game besides the PvP streamers and these forum goers that want werewolf to be a meme.

Udrath wrote: »

It needed to be increased. It might as well be 0 for how cheap their abilities were. Werewolf also has a passive that gives them increased stamina resource gains from heavy attacking (50%). Just heavy attack weave like most werewolves did before the rework.

Nevermind the werewolf heavies take AGES to carry out AND were nerfed during their rework (or, at least the zerker heavies were)

Werewolf abilities should've had their resource type change depending on your maximum resources from the start.

If you have more Maximum Magicka, all of your abilities should cost Magicka, except for Hircine's Bounty, which now costs Stamina. Using Hircine's Bounty when it costs Stamina restores Magicka to you. Your Heavy Attacks would then restore Magicka and Werewolf Transformation would give you Magicka Recovery instead of Stamina Recovery, and so on.

This is the cleanest solution to letting Magicka specs play Werewolf without making the abilities basically free.

Why focus on magicka since hybridization happened? Just curious

They also removed the stamina resource buff in werewolf form as a trade off for the cheaper skill costs. That stamina buff should be now be returned.

Kartalin wrote: »

Why focus on magicka since hybridization happened? Just curious

For the sake of character flavor, because yes some of us actually play characters, not just meta builds.

My main character is a frost mage who's a werewolf. Most frost skills are magicka. All Destruction Staff skills are magicka. I don't have a choice unless I don't want him to be a frost mage anymore

AdonisJorge wrote: »

Kartalin wrote: »

Why focus on magicka since hybridization happened? Just curious

Bretons and High Elves exists, their main resource is Magicka

Anyway, is a horrible idea to nerf WW that way because every WW will be sorcs and DK wil be even more OP, Buff other classes like you buffed Nightblade (and buff NB even more if needed) but do not hear the "omg so OP" people that do not like to understand that easier sustain is the new desing philosophy of the game

And yes sadly my Werewolf is a Breton. No I don't want to race change him because he is meant to be a Breton.

Kazajhan wrote: »

coop500 wrote: »

Don't come in here with your *** PvP ***, I don't care, I'm speaking strictly for 90% of the rest of the friggen game.

I'm totally with you here. I've been a dedicated Werewolf player for years, and time after time, the PvP problems fall on the back of those of us wanting to advance PvE content. Especially difficult end-game PvE content, where we are mainly supporting other players rather than opposing them.

And: speaking as a stamina-based player with Khajiitt Templar/Werewolf and Nightblade/Werewolf characters, it should be viable to play the game with the character you want. This is a

Massively Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game.

(Not a Massively Meta-Only Rage-Powered Game)

Sure, there'll be advantages to one kind of race or build, but the differences should be incremental, not one race/class combination works and the rest suck, or having to chase extreme metas just to be viable.

And that means I want you to enjoy your magicka based werewolf too.

And yes, if your character is a Breton, and that means the racial passives are 3% less beneficial, that is part of the role-playing, too. Maybe not being the ultimate meta means your character tries harder, finds better items...

And yes, I want PvP to work out without Werewolf being the primary meta, but not at the detriment of PvE.

Thank you, I appreciate these words because I have been driven to the brink by people treating the game as meta only and playing off meta doesn't deserve consideration when stuff gets nerfed into the dirt.

The worst part about this change is it sounds like that it didn't actually solve the PvP problem either. All it did was enforce the werewolf style that made people mad (infinite sustain DK/Sorc WWs with 40K hp in PvP) to be the only viable way to play it now instead of just being the ideal choice.

Why not just play stamina based? Like it always has been.

Zero fury at the start. Tristat potions. No sustain food. Dunmer. 6M/1L. ZOS somehow broke Werewolf Maxer, so it gives 0 experience in all skills. Thanks to it, my Rampage uptime is bad. Didn't cast Hircine's Bounty much, since it doesn't give buffs, so no stamina regen from it and no extra mag casts.



Can you sustain as a mag werewolf? Yes. Would it be better if it got the max resource cost treatment? Yes.

Bonus: stam sustain of the stam werewolf

IncultaWolf wrote: »

I remember zos expressing one of the intended goals of the werewolf refresh was allowing magicka based characters to play it, hence the low ability costs.

I don't mind this change of direction; I'm just surprised to see it happen so soon.

It would be so easy to fix this without actually hurting balance too. And the code already exists in the game for Arcanist.

If you have more max Magicka than Stamina? Bam, skills now cost Magicka (with the exception of Hircine's bounty/fortitude now costing stamina)

coop500 wrote: »

Kazajhan wrote: »

coop500 wrote: »

Don't come in here with your *** PvP ***, I don't care, I'm speaking strictly for 90% of the rest of the friggen game.

I'm totally with you here. I've been a dedicated Werewolf player for years, and time after time, the PvP problems fall on the back of those of us wanting to advance PvE content. Especially difficult end-game PvE content, where we are mainly supporting other players rather than opposing them.

And: speaking as a stamina-based player with Khajiitt Templar/Werewolf and Nightblade/Werewolf characters, it should be viable to play the game with the character you want. This is a

Massively Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game.

(Not a Massively Meta-Only Rage-Powered Game)

Sure, there'll be advantages to one kind of race or build, but the differences should be incremental, not one race/class combination works and the rest suck, or having to chase extreme metas just to be viable.

And that means I want you to enjoy your magicka based werewolf too.

And yes, if your character is a Breton, and that means the racial passives are 3% less beneficial, that is part of the role-playing, too. Maybe not being the ultimate meta means your character tries harder, finds better items...

And yes, I want PvP to work out without Werewolf being the primary meta, but not at the detriment of PvE.

Thank you, I appreciate these words because I have been driven to the brink by people treating the game as meta only and playing off meta doesn't deserve consideration when stuff gets nerfed into the dirt.

The worst part about this change is it sounds like that it didn't actually solve the PvP problem either. All it did was enforce the werewolf style that made people mad (infinite sustain DK/Sorc WWs with 40K hp in PvP) to be the only viable way to play it now instead of just being the ideal choice.

This exactly. Unfortunately the extra sustain from CoE now becomes paramount for werewolf sustain decreasing the spread of 'viable, off-meta' classes in favor of... more of what was undesired to begin with (as any change in such as closed-in kit such as werewolf, where you cannot healthily supplement skills, causes)

Kartalin wrote: »

AdonisJorge wrote: »

Kartalin wrote: »

Why focus on magicka since hybridization happened? Just curious

Bretons and High Elves exists, their main resource is Magicka

You can be a breton and put all your points into stamina, no rule against that. But I understand OPs goal of being a frost mage werewolf, which does get hindered by these changes.

If anything, actual max mag stat stack is a detriment more than ever now. Heals are still health-based also meaning that my allocation and spread is far too demanding for that playstyle (especially PvP) as it begs for:

-decent health amount (especially enough to not be one or 2-shot by DK/onslaught as I also have conditional minor protection, major protection dependent on morph, and no minor resolve unlike even a standard, non-werewolf PvP build which requires this, even beyond the healing)

-some sort of max stam/stam sustain

-mag and likely some sort of mag sustain

-I suppose you pull the damage from the leftover nothingness (you’re either a glass cannon with relatively mediocre damage at this point or you just tickle people; anything in b/w implodes especially if should anything happen to certain masteries also)

HunterDawn wrote: »

Before the remake, the werewolf had an additional 30% endurance, a 15% increase in werewolf skill damage, a 10% decrease in werewolf damage, and an additional 18% weapon damage. During battles, the werewolf can eat corpses at any time to replenish transformation energy, but the disadvantage is that the skill consumption is high. The remade Werewolf PVP only deals 10% weapon damage and cannot obtain ultimate points through devouring during battles. Additionally, it has the disadvantage of excessive skill consumption. Is this the remade Werewolf?😅@ZOS_Kevin，So what is the significance of redoing werewolves?

Shh… you can’t ping them- they’re only here for the DKs.

What I find weird is that they went though all this trouble with calculations which thing should be reduced by what amount instead of doing something really simple, less problematic and overall better for everyone:

They should have just added "this effect does not work under the effect of transformation" to Wards & Sorc class mastery passives.

^ You know, the ones that are very strong on its own. It is weird since initially when they were adding class mastery passives to the game, they added "save-guards" to NB's class mastery passives - making them kinda um... useless in PvP, but hey, at least there were no "nerf NB threads" cuz of that & NB can be playable in PvE. Why only NB got this treatment ?

If they would do something really simple - target nerf 2 specific WW builds - WW would not be super strong (as again, only those 2 builds are) and WW overall would have more build options and those builds while different - would be more or less on the same power level. Same for the Warden & sorc passive - unlike NB's class mastery passives, those would still be usable in PvP & would be still very strong on their own. So, the nerf would be minimal with almost no collateral damage.

But what we are getting instead is that WW will be only usable on sorc and will be again kinda useless in PvE on most builds and Magicka WW will be out of the picture entirely.