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ZOS, why is werewolf balancing ‘unchanging’?
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Wuuffyy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@NxJoeyD obviously DK remains on top with the current iterations of changes aside from anything but a sorc wolf.
Wolf never had ‘infinite mag sustain’ off of a sorc whereas DK has and still does have post-nerf. 25% off of the whip (from a 200% whip to 150% whip) doesn’t exactly fully undermine the host of other burst abilities they have access to in combination with this, a delayed CC, and/or the Pyrebrand/Wildfire setup that comes with both immense pressure and significant burst.Edited by Wuuffyy on August 18, 2026 12:35AMWuuffyy,
'end-game' PvE and PvP player
ESO player since 2014 (Xbox and PC for PTS)
-new players, feel free to DM for guidance!1 -
NxJoeyD✭✭✭✭@NxJoeyD obviously DK remains on top with the current iterations of changes aside from anything but a sorc wolf.
Wolf never had ‘infinite mag sustain’ off of a sorc whereas DK has and still does have post-nerf. 25% off of the whip (from a 200% whip to 150% whip) doesn’t exactly fully undermine the host of other burst abilities they have access to in combination with this, a delayed CC, and/or the Pyrebrand/Wildfire setup that comes with both immense pressure and significant burst.
I would agree with that .. People will often throw out "infinite sustain", especially when CoE is the topic .. and I won't say that CoE didn't benefit WW but the adjustments on PTS are far overreaching and go way beyond CoE.
The Devs have to have back-end data available to them. It's hard to imagine where they got the justification for these numbers from? It seems like they're going for more than just "WW has CoE" this is a strong nerf.2 -
Wuuffyy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@NxJoeyD obviously DK remains on top with the current iterations of changes aside from anything but a sorc wolf.
Wolf never had ‘infinite mag sustain’ off of a sorc whereas DK has and still does have post-nerf. 25% off of the whip (from a 200% whip to 150% whip) doesn’t exactly fully undermine the host of other burst abilities they have access to in combination with this, a delayed CC, and/or the Pyrebrand/Wildfire setup that comes with both immense pressure and significant burst.
I would agree with that .. People will often throw out "infinite sustain", especially when CoE is the topic .. and I won't say that CoE didn't benefit WW but the adjustments on PTS are far overreaching and go way beyond CoE.
The Devs have to have back-end data available to them. It's hard to imagine where they got the justification for these numbers from? It seems like they're going for more than just "WW has CoE" this is a strong nerf.
Logically speaking, if they had a full grasp of the situation- they wouldn’t have left the spammable at 1600-1800 which leaves it and wolf sustain in a prime position for only 1 single class to manage the egregious sustain nerfs.
Beyond that, this change heavily affects solo/small scale PvE (so ‘PvE’) and mag builds (anything unoptimized or any mag build at all in PvP), one of which (PvE) they said they were (paraphrasing) ‘happy with’, and mag builds which were meant to be a viable alternative to stam… but with the overbearing stat spread (you have to spread SO thin to meet the goals the wolf kit needs at that point just to be ‘viable’) just aren’t really viable in PvP after this change.
Proof of the ‘we like the PvE state’ sentiment (ergo changes should have been geared at PvP-only or PvE-minimally at the least):
Proof for werewolf kit ‘losing damage’ for the sustain, the sustain which subsequently was meant to make mag viable:
Edited by Wuuffyy on August 18, 2026 12:56AMWuuffyy,
'end-game' PvE and PvP player
ESO player since 2014 (Xbox and PC for PTS)
-new players, feel free to DM for guidance!3 -
NxJoeyD✭✭✭✭Bushido2513 wrote: »
WW didn't need nerfed because of CoE being too overtuned. ZOS refuses to adjust that Class Mastery. Nerfing WW by raising Stam costs without adjusting CoE will just force all WWs into playing Sorc and Stam, which kills build diversity. It also means you're still going to see WW sustain easily on Sorc.AdonisJorge wrote: »Good feedback. I think we need to nerf Werewolf further — all skills should cost health, magicka, stamina, and ultimate simultaneously
Actually you are correct. WW clearly need further nerfs. Sustain cost increases are easily managed (Sorc). Did their absurd damage get nerfed?
Let's focus on the actual source of issues instead of the things being impacted by them.
This is an interesting point but do we have any math on it? I keep hearing that people think this is what will happen but even when coe will the sustain be exactly the same?
Also wouldn't they be losing access to other masteries?
I'm not saying anything anyone is saying is wrong but if we want devs to take action shouldn't we be able to show them something?
I just don't want this to turn into here's a thought on how this took go so zos please take action on this thought or group of thoughts without any evidence.
I did do some math on this and the impacts are pretty significant from what I'm seeing.
Looking at a current WW on Live U50, let's assume 40k health, 19k Mag, & 22k stam. .. That may not be reflective of all WW but that's what my test WW build is. On those numbers, Sorcs CoE passive will return 443 Stam per proc & 379 Mag per proc.
If we just look at some of the current Live U50 skill costs and include a value for CoE's resource return:
Costs per cast:
Pounce: 1,071 (base) - 443 (CoE rebate) = net cost per cast 628
Roar: 1,071 - 443 = 628
Rip & Tear: 765 - 443 = 322
Blood Claws: 995 - 443 = 552
Ok, those numbers are on the low end. If the Devs were simply looking to offset the effects of the CoE passive on WW without impacting human Sorcs then one would expect that the skill cost increases aligned with how much (on average) resource rebate WW were getting ... but that's not what happened ... the skill cost increases went into orbit.
Costs per cast:
Pounce: 3,213 (U51 cost) - 443 = 2,770 +341%
Roar: 3,443 - 443 = 3,000 +377%
Rip & Tear: 1,800 - 443 = 1,357 +321%
Blood Claws: 2,340 - 443 = 1,897 +244%
Those increases go way beyond any impact CoE had on WW sustain.
Even if I were to assume that a WW would proc 2x CoE instances per GCD (which I think is unrealistic, consistently), those increases STILL float between 160% to 190%
So this begs the question, what is the desired result here? If the Devs wanted to impact WW sustain but not influence WW pressure then I, honestly, don't see any scenario where these changes don't diminish WW pressure.
The only thing that I can think of is that the Devs also want to encourage WW builds to re-allocate some of their resources from health into their other resource pools to try and compensate for these changes? But if that's the case, IMO, the Devs should release a note and tell players that's where their mindset is, so that the players who are affected by this can have input.
I don't main WW so these changes don't really affect my gameplay but it's really hard to be objective and not see the big impact these changes are going to have.
What I don't know, is how these changes impact WW vs a min/max DK with their upcoming changes. My gut tells me DK is on the winning side of these adjustments, but I really don't know as I haven't tested anything DK.
So CoE gives both mag AND health + you have natural recovery ticks also.
At 43,076 health, CoE (and by extension Blood Magic) is giving me 4393 per ‘ability with a cost’. That is roughly 2k HPS with Battle Spirit debuff.
Of course 418 stam per bite (836 ‘stam recov’) with 20,941 stam.
This is also granting me 372 Magicka per cast (or 744 mag ‘recov’) for only 18615 max mag. I’ve also been told that both of these (health and standard resource sustain) affect core combat ‘ability’ usage also in some capacity.
The main skill (so the majority of your ‘uptime’) is primarily the bite (~1800 stam)
If we assume every bite is restoring nearly 400 stam and mag plus an additional 2k HPS after Battle Spirit debuff, AND potentially on some core combat ‘abilities’ also mixed with 600-900 mag and stam recov (this is little to no investment of course), you can pretty easily see how CoE is carrying werewolf tri-sustain and also how it is hard-carrying sorc sustain as well.
A werewolf’s natural counter before and after rework, a mag check, (for ‘healing-on-the-go’) becomes near impossible with CoE as well (or at least far more difficult than it should be). Also, them ‘wanting werewolf to stack other resources’ doesn’t really work either with the current model when A) they keep reducing the on-demand healing (43% reduction from pre-rework per another poster) requiring more and more health to achieve a similar goal and B- Our only significant wep/spell scaling heal, Hircine’s Rage, is significantly underpowered (20% less than a breath of life) and causes the user to take up to 12% increased damage.
Regardless, the point remains- the difference in sustain between a Sorc wolf and a non-Sorc wolf on PTS is astronomical and if that’s the case it’s logical to assume that some sustain should return and CoE (at least for wolf) should go rather than everyone being forced into Sorc to maintain okay sustain while having a decent health pool for healing.
I don't disagree but is pulling CoE (or any mastery passive) in-scope for this update?
The Devs made it seem like they were looking for simple, low impact changes they could implement to make improvements in the game state. If that's the case, the proper fix of pulling CoE from WW might be out of reach for U51, and if that is the case then what they've done here is a back-door, bootleg effort.
This will cattle heard practically every WW over to Sorc undoubtedly.
If the Devs can't implement the proper fix with U51, ok, that might be acceptable if they hadn't hitched up WW resource cost as much as they did.1 -
Wuuffyy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Bushido2513 wrote: »
WW didn't need nerfed because of CoE being too overtuned. ZOS refuses to adjust that Class Mastery. Nerfing WW by raising Stam costs without adjusting CoE will just force all WWs into playing Sorc and Stam, which kills build diversity. It also means you're still going to see WW sustain easily on Sorc.AdonisJorge wrote: »Good feedback. I think we need to nerf Werewolf further — all skills should cost health, magicka, stamina, and ultimate simultaneously
Actually you are correct. WW clearly need further nerfs. Sustain cost increases are easily managed (Sorc). Did their absurd damage get nerfed?
Let's focus on the actual source of issues instead of the things being impacted by them.
This is an interesting point but do we have any math on it? I keep hearing that people think this is what will happen but even when coe will the sustain be exactly the same?
Also wouldn't they be losing access to other masteries?
I'm not saying anything anyone is saying is wrong but if we want devs to take action shouldn't we be able to show them something?
I just don't want this to turn into here's a thought on how this took go so zos please take action on this thought or group of thoughts without any evidence.
I did do some math on this and the impacts are pretty significant from what I'm seeing.
Looking at a current WW on Live U50, let's assume 40k health, 19k Mag, & 22k stam. .. That may not be reflective of all WW but that's what my test WW build is. On those numbers, Sorcs CoE passive will return 443 Stam per proc & 379 Mag per proc.
If we just look at some of the current Live U50 skill costs and include a value for CoE's resource return:
Costs per cast:
Pounce: 1,071 (base) - 443 (CoE rebate) = net cost per cast 628
Roar: 1,071 - 443 = 628
Rip & Tear: 765 - 443 = 322
Blood Claws: 995 - 443 = 552
Ok, those numbers are on the low end. If the Devs were simply looking to offset the effects of the CoE passive on WW without impacting human Sorcs then one would expect that the skill cost increases aligned with how much (on average) resource rebate WW were getting ... but that's not what happened ... the skill cost increases went into orbit.
Costs per cast:
Pounce: 3,213 (U51 cost) - 443 = 2,770 +341%
Roar: 3,443 - 443 = 3,000 +377%
Rip & Tear: 1,800 - 443 = 1,357 +321%
Blood Claws: 2,340 - 443 = 1,897 +244%
Those increases go way beyond any impact CoE had on WW sustain.
Even if I were to assume that a WW would proc 2x CoE instances per GCD (which I think is unrealistic, consistently), those increases STILL float between 160% to 190%
So this begs the question, what is the desired result here? If the Devs wanted to impact WW sustain but not influence WW pressure then I, honestly, don't see any scenario where these changes don't diminish WW pressure.
The only thing that I can think of is that the Devs also want to encourage WW builds to re-allocate some of their resources from health into their other resource pools to try and compensate for these changes? But if that's the case, IMO, the Devs should release a note and tell players that's where their mindset is, so that the players who are affected by this can have input.
I don't main WW so these changes don't really affect my gameplay but it's really hard to be objective and not see the big impact these changes are going to have.
What I don't know, is how these changes impact WW vs a min/max DK with their upcoming changes. My gut tells me DK is on the winning side of these adjustments, but I really don't know as I haven't tested anything DK.
So CoE gives both mag AND health + you have natural recovery ticks also.
At 43,076 health, CoE (and by extension Blood Magic) is giving me 4393 per ‘ability with a cost’. That is roughly 2k HPS with Battle Spirit debuff.
Of course 418 stam per bite (836 ‘stam recov’) with 20,941 stam.
This is also granting me 372 Magicka per cast (or 744 mag ‘recov’) for only 18615 max mag. I’ve also been told that both of these (health and standard resource sustain) affect core combat ‘ability’ usage also in some capacity.
The main skill (so the majority of your ‘uptime’) is primarily the bite (~1800 stam)
If we assume every bite is restoring nearly 400 stam and mag plus an additional 2k HPS after Battle Spirit debuff, AND potentially on some core combat ‘abilities’ also mixed with 600-900 mag and stam recov (this is little to no investment of course), you can pretty easily see how CoE is carrying werewolf tri-sustain and also how it is hard-carrying sorc sustain as well.
A werewolf’s natural counter before and after rework, a mag check, (for ‘healing-on-the-go’) becomes near impossible with CoE as well (or at least far more difficult than it should be). Also, them ‘wanting werewolf to stack other resources’ doesn’t really work either with the current model when A) they keep reducing the on-demand healing (43% reduction from pre-rework per another poster) requiring more and more health to achieve a similar goal and B- Our only significant wep/spell scaling heal, Hircine’s Rage, is significantly underpowered (20% less than a breath of life) and causes the user to take up to 12% increased damage.
Regardless, the point remains- the difference in sustain between a Sorc wolf and a non-Sorc wolf on PTS is astronomical and if that’s the case it’s logical to assume that some sustain should return and CoE (at least for wolf) should go rather than everyone being forced into Sorc to maintain okay sustain while having a decent health pool for healing.
I don't disagree but is pulling CoE (or any mastery passive) in-scope for this update?
The Devs made it seem like they were looking for simple, low impact changes they could implement to make improvements in the game state. If that's the case, the proper fix of pulling CoE from WW might be out of reach for U51, and if that is the case then what they've done here is a back-door, bootleg effort.
This will cattle heard practically every WW over to Sorc undoubtedly.
If the Devs can't implement the proper fix with U51, ok, that might be acceptable if they hadn't hitched up WW resource cost as much as they did.
If werewolf, value = 0 for whatever chosen masteries. Reduce sustain costs by whatever margin they feel appropriate at that point.
I mean, they’re disabling all cosmetics (recalls, resource gathering, etc.)- it’s the least they can do for us since that will undoubtedly save them a lot of effort later, especially at our expense (nevermind that decoupling wolf for masteries in PvP would save them a lot of effort should they make good on actually and meaningfully adjusting masteries for underperforming classes; they should absolutely create ‘werewolf masteries’ to replace our class mastery system everywhere- when possible)Edited by Wuuffyy on August 18, 2026 1:07AMWuuffyy,
'end-game' PvE and PvP player
ESO player since 2014 (Xbox and PC for PTS)
-new players, feel free to DM for guidance!2 -
gammelscroll✭✭✭Bushido2513 wrote: »
WW didn't need nerfed because of CoE being too overtuned. ZOS refuses to adjust that Class Mastery. Nerfing WW by raising Stam costs without adjusting CoE will just force all WWs into playing Sorc and Stam, which kills build diversity. It also means you're still going to see WW sustain easily on Sorc.AdonisJorge wrote: »Good feedback. I think we need to nerf Werewolf further — all skills should cost health, magicka, stamina, and ultimate simultaneously
Actually you are correct. WW clearly need further nerfs. Sustain cost increases are easily managed (Sorc). Did their absurd damage get nerfed?
Let's focus on the actual source of issues instead of the things being impacted by them.
Nah. Nerf it.
Thanks man, seems like you really have a great hold on things.
If I remember right, they did 'nerf it' on last PTS when a bunch of people screamed the same thing. Then we had the Signet Warden meta and it was quickly realized 'nerf it' (werewolf) didn't work and that had made it to live despite the blanket werewolf nerfs.
Sometimes you need to understand the core of an issue to properly assess and remediate.
Problem is that ww is such an issue on multiple fronts that yeah some players want action taken now. It's been going on for a minute and I personally am happy to see ww die down a bit immediately even if we have to revisit the changes later.
Also it's not always the dying that's and issue. I can fight ww to varying degrees of success. Sometimes it's more of the having the ones that want to run around in circles waiting for an opportunity kill or just being happy to be in your face and fearing you. You can't ignore them altogether like a tank because they have cumulative and execute damage and you can't easily kill them because they are tanky and can run away quickly if needed.
I don't blame players for enjoying ww but because of how accessible it is and easy to run, we're just seeing a lot and that's something I'm ok toning down on immediately..
I'm happy to have wws running around when they can play by the rules a bit more, same with DK.
Be a tank, be a hard hitter, be evasive but don't be pieces of all three on an easily piloted and highly accessible build.
Skill issue. Build issue0 -
Wuuffyy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Just tested on PTS with @AdonisJorge. We dueled for about 25-30 min.
They ran a ‘Savage Werewolf’ setup and tried on and off with cost reduction to mitigate; I was also on a Savage werewolf but with GT (mimicking ‘meta builds’ on live). To note, they did have latency issues being further away from servers.
Without CoE, werewolf sustain burns out like a light. It’s far too much strain needing to heavily invest in so many areas (like defensive sets for mitigation especially as no minor resolve, health for healing, max stam and stamina recovery/reduce cost and/or mag recovery/cost reduction for sustain, damage/likely procs to have meaningful and consistent damage due to no burst).
Mag builds in PvP turning into werewolf are just not a viable option anymore either. Again, anything that is 4 players or under, especially without support, and you’re in trouble if your build is focusing on raising health for ‘health sustain’ (this includes Vestige runs, IA, and vBRP for example).
@ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_JessicaFolsom I really don’t know what you want werewolf to do. You removed damage from the tooltips initially, gutted the only on-demand heal in favor of ‘low cost’ in-your-face spam healing, removed uptimes for DoTs (causing frequent and grueling recasts especially due to nature of conal claws), removed ‘low sustain playstyle’ pressure tools like consistent major and minor defile. Rampage takes far too long to achieve and in PvP I’m incentivized to ‘hold it’ for as long as possible should that understandably tiny stamina bar dwindle too quickly to remediate otherwise (instead of ‘use for burst windows’…). This rework is honestly shaping up to have removed more ‘necessary tools’ for me than it added (I used to build nearly full damage and had a ‘get in and get out’ playstyle).Edited by Wuuffyy on August 21, 2026 2:53AMWuuffyy,
'end-game' PvE and PvP player
ESO player since 2014 (Xbox and PC for PTS)
-new players, feel free to DM for guidance!4 -
AdonisJorge✭✭✭Just tested on PTS with @AdonisJorge. We dueled for about 25-30 min.
They ran a ‘Savage Werewolf’ setup and tried on and off with cost reduction to mitigate; I was also on a Savage werewolf but with GT (mimicking ‘meta builds’ on live). To note, they did have latency issues being further away from servers.
Without CoE, werewolf sustain burns out like a light. It’s far too much strain needing to heavily invest in so many areas (like defensive sets for mitigation especially as no minor resolve, health for healing, max stam and stamina recovery/reduce cost and/or mag recovery/cost reduction for sustain, damage/likely procs to have meaningful and consistent damage due to no burst).
Mag builds in PvP turning into werewolf are just not a viable option anymore either. Again, anything that is 4 players or under, especially without support, and you’re in trouble if your build is focusing on raising health for ‘health sustain’ (this includes Vestige runs, IA, and vBRP for example).
@ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_JessicaFolsom I really don’t know what you want werewolf to do. You removed damage from the tooltips initially, gutted the only on-demand heal in favor of ‘low cost’ in-your-face spam healing, removed uptimes for DoTs (causing frequent and grueling recasts especially due to nature of conal claws), removed ‘low sustain playstyle’ pressure tools like consistent major and minor defile. Rampage takes far too long to achieve and in PvP I’m incentivized to ‘hold it’ for as long as possible should that understandably tiny stamina bar dwindle too quickly to remediate otherwise (instead of ‘use for burst windows’…). This rework is honestly shaping up to have removed more ‘necessary tools’ for me than it added (I use to build nearly full damage and had a ‘get in and get out’ playstyle).
Me and @Wuuffyy did some testing on Werewolf (WW) with and without Conservation of Energy (COE), and the difference is absurd.
WW is playable with COE plus tri-stat glyphs and three infused weapon damage jewelry pieces. It’s not overpowered, not weak—just a solid character, still ranking as the second or third strongest “class” in the game.
The issue is that WW without COE cannot hope to survive any PvP (and even some PvE) encounters. With WW, you will need build sustain through food + armor, or glyphs, otherwise it will be unplayable on both PVP and PVE
WW ended up paying the price for another class skill (Sorcerer’s COE), which isn’t fair—and I say this as a Sorcerer main who loves the class.
I need to say that i played with 200/300 latency so it of course make things harder
Please @ZOS_Kevin and @ZOS_JessicaFolsom look at this because it apparently go against the WW rework principles and magicka WW is dead on PTS right now, not only on PVP but having a hard time on PVE too4 -
ZOS_CouchTatoadminAfter review, we have decided to close this thread as there is already a discussion on this here.2 -
Wuuffyy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭This one was reopened in a favor of the other thread closing. I appreciate your help on that @ZOS_CouchTato!Wuuffyy,
'end-game' PvE and PvP player
ESO player since 2014 (Xbox and PC for PTS)
-new players, feel free to DM for guidance!1 -
Wuuffyy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Reposting from other thread (quoted an individual from the other thread)Turtle_Bot wrote: »
100%, agreed. But do you think lets say nb ww was a problem? Have you ever seen an arcanist ww? I mean i played one for a while, both the 15% damage done and major force are prety good class masteries. But i think we both know why those werent an issue.
I think we both know that the issue was and still is Conservation of Energy, specially after signets nuke.
And here is the funny thing, the builds that use it, are going to be absolutely fine after the nerf.
That means one of two things, either they nerf ww again because the nerfs were targeted poorly and the problem will persist.
Or two, they finally nerf Conservation of Energy because at this point even some one deaf and blind can see and hear the signs that that class mastery is way too good.
And as a result ww will be a joke because the build will soon be hard crutching on Conservation of Energy for both healing and sustain. Which is fine, but a bit of a shame really.
There's always option 3:
Prevent CoE from working in WW form. i.e. directly targeting the problematic interactions themselves rather than just blanket nerfs.
Correct. And while you're at it you are holding up the following promises:
-keeping PvP-focused changes away from PvE
-keeping mag builds viable for werewolf (no 'random person' that floats around, not referring to 'no dodges/blocks' on the 21m dummy that has sustain buffs while you spam Rampage on CD)
-not 'removing damage' for sustain and then not returning it as sustain is stripped away
///
As it is now, all they've done is broken many of these promises and 'equivalent exchanges' while enforcing a DK, sorc, and sorc wolf meta where almost nothing changes from how it is now other than 2 of these things feel slightly worse.Edited by Wuuffyy on August 20, 2026 6:58PMWuuffyy,
'end-game' PvE and PvP player
ESO player since 2014 (Xbox and PC for PTS)
-new players, feel free to DM for guidance!2 -
RedMamba✭✭✭How many posts are you going to keep creating and spamming the same stuff? They are just going to ban you on the forums.1
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Wuuffyy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭How many posts are you going to keep creating and spamming the same stuff? They are just going to ban you on the forums.
DK was already adjusted and while I could argue that it should be adjusted more (for example, ‘Core of Flame’ still allows for ‘infinite’ bi-stat sustain while not even werewolf has mag or stam now in any similar capacity outside of an ‘ult’); I prefer to use this thread to focus on the issues with the werewolf changes in particular…
…issues they have not covered that will undoubtedly make any PvP player unhappy with the werewolf nerfs should the next live patch drop in this state.Edited by Wuuffyy on August 20, 2026 8:09PMWuuffyy,
'end-game' PvE and PvP player
ESO player since 2014 (Xbox and PC for PTS)
-new players, feel free to DM for guidance!2 -
Wuuffyy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Sorry but class reworks take a priority over a skill line.
Adjusting numbers in this PTS does not take away from the Warden rework that won’t occur until Q1 or Q2 of next year. Regardless, this is a rework also and should be supported all the same balance-wise.
A ‘skill line’ does not completely take over your playstyle and disable certain passives, etc. and additionally most ‘skill lines’ did not have a ‘class rep’ during the official class rep program years back.
Your thing and my thing simply do not conflict in this capacity. Not to mention that, currently and on live, everyone can build to benefit from being a werewolf on their preferred class should they choose (and compete with reworked-level classes like DK or those with overloaded masteries mixed with kit, like sorc).Edited by Wuuffyy on August 20, 2026 8:08PMWuuffyy,
'end-game' PvE and PvP player
ESO player since 2014 (Xbox and PC for PTS)
-new players, feel free to DM for guidance!3 -
RedMamba✭✭✭Once again class reworks take priority and impact the entire game vs a skill line that does not.1
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gammelscroll✭✭✭Cant wait for ww to be nerfed into ground. A "class" shouldnt be able to tank 5-6 players with infinite healing and be unkillable. Just delete them from game3
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RedMamba✭✭✭gammelscroll wrote: »Cant wait for ww to be nerfed into ground. A "class" shouldnt be able to tank 5-6 players with infinite healing and be unkillable. Just delete them from game
8 more days1 -
CannedChicken✭✭✭Why don't they just disable class masteries on WW and leave werewolf alone? Seems simpler.3 -
Wuuffyy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭gammelscroll wrote: »Cant wait for ww to be nerfed into ground. A "class" shouldnt be able to tank 5-6 players with infinite healing and be unkillable. Just delete them from game
I agree, DK should not be capable of this either. Unfortunately, 'high sustain' has its own drawbacks and there are plenty of examples of 'lower-skilled players' making this possible fighting 'good players' on any class, even with considerable damage.
Additionally, anyone can build a tank (of course) and do the same on any class; this especially thanks to concepts like high 'block mitigation' paired with regular mitigation allowing for double digit to triple digit damage on high tooltip attacks.gammelscroll wrote: »Cant wait for ww to be nerfed into ground. A "class" shouldnt be able to tank 5-6 players with infinite healing and be unkillable. Just delete them from game
8 more days
Haha, you're probably a bit mistaken. Not sure where you grabbed the '8 days from'. Quick search shows 9/28/26 which is roughly 1 month AND 8 days away.
Either way, typically the PTS lasts a bit longer and then can take a few weeks or so to reach live. However, again and with the affected scheduled due to restructuring, things can certainly change.Wuuffyy,
'end-game' PvE and PvP player
ESO player since 2014 (Xbox and PC for PTS)
-new players, feel free to DM for guidance!2 -
Wuuffyy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭CannedChicken wrote: »Why don't they just disable class masteries on WW and leave werewolf alone? Seems simpler.
Agreed. Especially given that A) this current PTS iteration doesn't solve the fully resolve the issue of the high-sustain wolf (sorc wolf) and B- makes non-sorc wolf borderline unviable with the current requirements for appropriately building for PvP environments.Edited by Wuuffyy on August 21, 2026 12:22AMWuuffyy,
'end-game' PvE and PvP player
ESO player since 2014 (Xbox and PC for PTS)
-new players, feel free to DM for guidance!3 -
coop500✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Please bring back Magicka PvE werewolves, and werewolves not a sorc in general.Hoping for more playable races.
Hoping the game and it's team remains alive.
BRING BACK MAGICKA WEREWOLVES TO PVE4 -
Arunei✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
It's a game, why get so mad over dying that you think whatever killed you needs to get deleted? Like my guy DKs and other Classes can build into unkillable tanks too, let's just delete ALL Classes from the game and instead play Sitting and Staring at the Screen Simulator. People who scream about unkillable WWs ALWAYS conveniently forget this is a problem that has existed in the game for YEARS, LONG before WW had its rework.gammelscroll wrote: »Cant wait for ww to be nerfed into ground. A "class" shouldnt be able to tank 5-6 players with infinite healing and be unkillable. Just delete them from game
And guess what? This won't change anything in regards to WW sustain. Like AT ALL. All it's going to do is railroad EVERY WW into playing a Pure Sorc for CoE to offset the Stam cost increase. If anything you're going to see even MORE unkillable WWs because all the ones who weren't running Stam Sorc are going to spec into it now so they can keep running their same Sets and builds with just some changes in what Class Skills they're using.
Be careful what you wish for, the monkey paw curls another finger.PC-NA | Been around since closed beta | Alt account: Arunei PC-NA
Avid RPer. Hit me up in-game @Ras_Lei if you're interested in getting together for some arr-pee shenanigans!
RP Characters:
Sarah Lacroix: Breton Vampire who really really REALLY likes likes learning Magick and also her Altmer husbando
Kaalhil Swiftstrike: Tiny shapeshifting monster hunter Bosmeri lady with enough sass to kill a dragon or ten
Gwendolyn Jenelle: Friendly healer with a coffee addiction and her own medical practice
Krisiel: Literally crazy Werewolf, no like legit insane. She nuts
Kiju Veran: Ex-Fighters Guild Suthay who likes to punch things and is also a spy and ALSO a Werewolf
Niralae Elsinal: Young Altmeri woman with way too much Magicka and Vampire husbando
Slondor: TESified Slenderman, except lazier and has more of a thing for deals than Clavicus Vile does
Marius Vastino: Sarah's Imperial apathetic sire who likes to monologue
Lirawyn Calatare: Traveling performer and bard who's 101% vanilla bean
Soliril Larethian: Blind alchemist who uses animals to see and brews plagues in his spare time8 -
gammelscroll✭✭✭
It's a game, why get so mad over dying that you think whatever killed you needs to get deleted? Like my guy DKs and other Classes can build into unkillable tanks too, let's just delete ALL Classes from the game and instead play Sitting and Staring at the Screen Simulator. People who scream about unkillable WWs ALWAYS conveniently forget this is a problem that has existed in the game for YEARS, LONG before WW had its rework.gammelscroll wrote: »Cant wait for ww to be nerfed into ground. A "class" shouldnt be able to tank 5-6 players with infinite healing and be unkillable. Just delete them from game
And guess what? This won't change anything in regards to WW sustain. Like AT ALL. All it's going to do is railroad EVERY WW into playing a Pure Sorc for CoE to offset the Stam cost increase. If anything you're going to see even MORE unkillable WWs because all the ones who weren't running Stam Sorc are going to spec into it now so they can keep running their same Sets and builds with just some changes in what Class Skills they're using.
Be careful what you wish for, the monkey paw curls another finger.
I dont get killed by ww. I talked about them being unkillable. No "class" should be able to run into a 8 man group and just heal through and Dodge roll everything. And still.manage to kill some noobs like you.
the problem with ww isnt their dmg, its the infinite healing and Dodge rolling. Thats make them unkillable0 -
hoangdz✭✭✭✭✭Let's just say WW got what's coming. 5 weeks of PTS cycles and another 2 months of live server domination. Should've never made it out of the PTS tbh.
Same for DK and soon, Sorc.2 -
Bushido2513✭✭✭✭✭
There's just one problem with all this: WW was a meme and not at all viable for YEARS. And instead of asking for fine tune adjustments like we're seeing with DK, people just demand "MAKE X THING WORSE" and ZOS takes the sledgehammer to them again because people get mad things are killing them in PvP.Bushido2513 wrote: »
WW didn't need nerfed because of CoE being too overtuned. ZOS refuses to adjust that Class Mastery. Nerfing WW by raising Stam costs without adjusting CoE will just force all WWs into playing Sorc and Stam, which kills build diversity. It also means you're still going to see WW sustain easily on Sorc.AdonisJorge wrote: »Good feedback. I think we need to nerf Werewolf further — all skills should cost health, magicka, stamina, and ultimate simultaneously
Actually you are correct. WW clearly need further nerfs. Sustain cost increases are easily managed (Sorc). Did their absurd damage get nerfed?
Let's focus on the actual source of issues instead of the things being impacted by them.
Nah. Nerf it.
Thanks man, seems like you really have a great hold on things.
If I remember right, they did 'nerf it' on last PTS when a bunch of people screamed the same thing. Then we had the Signet Warden meta and it was quickly realized 'nerf it' (werewolf) didn't work and that had made it to live despite the blanket werewolf nerfs.
Sometimes you need to understand the core of an issue to properly assess and remediate.
Problem is that ww is such an issue on multiple fronts that yeah some players want action taken now. It's been going on for a minute and I personally am happy to see ww die down a bit immediately even if we have to revisit the changes later.
Also it's not always the dying that's and issue. I can fight ww to varying degrees of success. Sometimes it's more of the having the ones that want to run around in circles waiting for an opportunity kill or just being happy to be in your face and fearing you. You can't ignore them altogether like a tank because they have cumulative and execute damage and you can't easily kill them because they are tanky and can run away quickly if needed.
I don't blame players for enjoying ww but because of how accessible it is and easy to run, we're just seeing a lot and that's something I'm ok toning down on immediately..
I'm happy to have wws running around when they can play by the rules a bit more, same with DK.
Be a tank, be a hard hitter, be evasive but don't be pieces of all three on an easily piloted and highly accessible build.
The increase to Stam costs goes against the WHOLE REASON they were made so low to begin with, a fact they STILL have not directly addressed. Within about two months Mag WW has been made a meme again, and because WW isn't being given back the Stam recovery bonus, even Stam builds will have a harder time.
Things can be adjusted without clotheslining them onto the ground, ZOS has proven that a number of times. Yet there are ALWAYS the times they take heavyhanded approaches to other things.
Yeah this is all bad timing and werewolf gets the backlash unfortunately. I thinkgammelscroll wrote: »Bushido2513 wrote: »
WW didn't need nerfed because of CoE being too overtuned. ZOS refuses to adjust that Class Mastery. Nerfing WW by raising Stam costs without adjusting CoE will just force all WWs into playing Sorc and Stam, which kills build diversity. It also means you're still going to see WW sustain easily on Sorc.AdonisJorge wrote: »Good feedback. I think we need to nerf Werewolf further — all skills should cost health, magicka, stamina, and ultimate simultaneously
Actually you are correct. WW clearly need further nerfs. Sustain cost increases are easily managed (Sorc). Did their absurd damage get nerfed?
Let's focus on the actual source of issues instead of the things being impacted by them.
Nah. Nerf it.
Thanks man, seems like you really have a great hold on things.
If I remember right, they did 'nerf it' on last PTS when a bunch of people screamed the same thing. Then we had the Signet Warden meta and it was quickly realized 'nerf it' (werewolf) didn't work and that had made it to live despite the blanket werewolf nerfs.
Sometimes you need to understand the core of an issue to properly assess and remediate.
Problem is that ww is such an issue on multiple fronts that yeah some players want action taken now. It's been going on for a minute and I personally am happy to see ww die down a bit immediately even if we have to revisit the changes later.
Also it's not always the dying that's and issue. I can fight ww to varying degrees of success. Sometimes it's more of the having the ones that want to run around in circles waiting for an opportunity kill or just being happy to be in your face and fearing you. You can't ignore them altogether like a tank because they have cumulative and execute damage and you can't easily kill them because they are tanky and can run away quickly if needed.
I don't blame players for enjoying ww but because of how accessible it is and easy to run, we're just seeing a lot and that's something I'm ok toning down on immediately..
I'm happy to have wws running around when they can play by the rules a bit more, same with DK.
Be a tank, be a hard hitter, be evasive but don't be pieces of all three on an easily piloted and highly accessible build.
Skill issue. Build issue
You can use that argument on anything in the game technically. That was brought up with shattered path.
It's a true argument but does nothing to talk about how that can ruin the gameplay experience and it doesn't address new players or learning players.
I like souls games but this isn't one.0 -
IncultaWolf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭gammelscroll wrote: »Cant wait for ww to be nerfed into ground. A "class" shouldnt be able to tank 5-6 players with infinite healing and be unkillable. Just delete them from game
My necro can do this also.2 -
Wuuffyy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
There's just one problem with all this: WW was a meme and not at all viable for YEARS. And instead of asking for fine tune adjustments like we're seeing with DK, people just demand "MAKE X THING WORSE" and ZOS takes the sledgehammer to them again because people get mad things are killing them in PvP.Bushido2513 wrote: »
WW didn't need nerfed because of CoE being too overtuned. ZOS refuses to adjust that Class Mastery. Nerfing WW by raising Stam costs without adjusting CoE will just force all WWs into playing Sorc and Stam, which kills build diversity. It also means you're still going to see WW sustain easily on Sorc.AdonisJorge wrote: »Good feedback. I think we need to nerf Werewolf further — all skills should cost health, magicka, stamina, and ultimate simultaneously
Actually you are correct. WW clearly need further nerfs. Sustain cost increases are easily managed (Sorc). Did their absurd damage get nerfed?
Let's focus on the actual source of issues instead of the things being impacted by them.
Nah. Nerf it.
Thanks man, seems like you really have a great hold on things.
If I remember right, they did 'nerf it' on last PTS when a bunch of people screamed the same thing. Then we had the Signet Warden meta and it was quickly realized 'nerf it' (werewolf) didn't work and that had made it to live despite the blanket werewolf nerfs.
Sometimes you need to understand the core of an issue to properly assess and remediate.
Problem is that ww is such an issue on multiple fronts that yeah some players want action taken now. It's been going on for a minute and I personally am happy to see ww die down a bit immediately even if we have to revisit the changes later.
Also it's not always the dying that's and issue. I can fight ww to varying degrees of success. Sometimes it's more of the having the ones that want to run around in circles waiting for an opportunity kill or just being happy to be in your face and fearing you. You can't ignore them altogether like a tank because they have cumulative and execute damage and you can't easily kill them because they are tanky and can run away quickly if needed.
I don't blame players for enjoying ww but because of how accessible it is and easy to run, we're just seeing a lot and that's something I'm ok toning down on immediately..
I'm happy to have wws running around when they can play by the rules a bit more, same with DK.
Be a tank, be a hard hitter, be evasive but don't be pieces of all three on an easily piloted and highly accessible build.
The increase to Stam costs goes against the WHOLE REASON they were made so low to begin with, a fact they STILL have not directly addressed. Within about two months Mag WW has been made a meme again, and because WW isn't being given back the Stam recovery bonus, even Stam builds will have a harder time.
Things can be adjusted without clotheslining them onto the ground, ZOS has proven that a number of times. Yet there are ALWAYS the times they take heavyhanded approaches to other things.
We aren’t getting the 30% stam back, the stam recov, the uptime on DoTs again, major and minor defile to ‘pressure’ the way we used to.
It’s not about being nerfed, it’s about legitimately being placed in a worse state than when we started. Rampage (a that requires I remain active in combat which becomes more difficult as more nerfs come in) and Bite Healing is all we really have left and so far we’ve lost 43% of our burst heal from pre-rework to have that.
It’s only a matter of time with negative sentiment (invalid, malicious, uninformed or not) bbefore even more reductions come that will inevitably and objectively place us in a worse place all around than when we started.Edited by Wuuffyy on August 21, 2026 1:56PMWuuffyy,
'end-game' PvE and PvP player
ESO player since 2014 (Xbox and PC for PTS)
-new players, feel free to DM for guidance!2 -
RedMamba✭✭✭They need to buff Warden, Templar, Necro, Arcanist and NB before looking at single skill line. Which is exactly what they are doing now and ignoring all the WW posts if you can't tell. Week 3 pts here and not likely any changes in week 40
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Wuuffyy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭They need to buff Warden, Templar, Necro, Arcanist and NB before looking at single skill line. Which is exactly what they are doing now and ignoring all the WW posts if you can't tell. Week 3 pts here and not likely any changes in week 4
Hello again default-PFP @RedMamba!
If you didn’t notice, they actually spent quite a bit of resources and dev time fully reworking (nerfing) stealth interactions (I.E NB, etc.) and basically left class masteries virtually unaffected this patch.
Still not sure where you’re getting ‘numbers balancing’ somehow-constantly taking away from anything you are wanting but they aren’t/haven’t done that (masteries changes) yet and I can assure you that if the stealth changes weren’t done- they could have easily put in effort to change numbers for underperforming masteries in PvP- completely unrelated to werewolf.
Regardless of all the nerfs- DK, Sorc, and Sorc wolf remain drastically on the top so therefore even their ‘make blanket adjustments and stop supporting werewolf’ changes haven’t really accomplished any meaningful goal other than to completely phase out anything aside from sorc wolf (once again).Edited by Wuuffyy on August 21, 2026 2:02PMWuuffyy,
'end-game' PvE and PvP player
ESO player since 2014 (Xbox and PC for PTS)
-new players, feel free to DM for guidance!2