Revert draugrkin nerf

Zyaneth_Bal · August 10

As zos themselves stated the reason for the nerf was to make status builds less “oppressive” in pvp. But shattered paths signet has already been deleted from pvp (now it’s basically a debuff with no upsides) and there is no need to nuke anything else.
Draugrkin is just good for certain build paths, not even all around bis, it doesn’t need any nerfs at all. In it’s current state on pts it’s not even worth considering for literally any build, it’s straight up bad. Do not forget that the rather heavy 10% healing penalty is still there.
All this nerf would serve is rob the set of it’s only use case.
For comparison dragon’s appetite gives more damage (225) and heals instead of reducing healing.

The buff for pve is absolutely negligible too, and again the debuff is still there.

aLi3nZ · August 11

Agreed

Zyaneth_Bal · August 13

Combat team is as out of touch as ever. Making healing penalty halved too is absolutely irrelevant. The set wouldn’t be used even if it buffed healing instead of decreasing it because damage is abysmal.
Draugrkin has always been a niche choice and general go to sets are now going to be better even in that niche

madmufffin · August 13

Very strong pve set now at least 😅

Zyaneth_Bal · August 13

madmufffin wrote: »

Very strong pve set now at least 😅

If only🙏

Zyaneth_Bal · August 13

At this point even for a status/dot build there are better options than a set that was supposed to be tailored for that role

madmufffin · August 13

Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »

At this point even for a status/dot build there are better options than a set that was supposed to be tailored for that role

It's been good on Warden in it's current state, so could be a go to set now. A shame IA sets don't give slayer

dark_hunterxmg · August 14

This nerf is wild. There was nothing wrong with Draugrkin.

Zyaneth_Bal · August 14

dark_hunterxmg wrote: »

This nerf is wild. There was nothing wrong with Draugrkin.

Yeah not only was there no need to touch it at all but it wasn’t just nerfed, they completely nuked it.

There’s a huge number of useless sets that need buffs/reworks, why not work on that instead of doing the opposite to something that works fine

madmufffin · August 14

Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »

dark_hunterxmg wrote: »

This nerf is wild. There was nothing wrong with Draugrkin.

Yeah not only was there no need to touch it at all but it wasn’t just nerfed, they completely nuked it.

There’s a huge number of useless sets that need buffs/reworks, why not work on that instead of doing the opposite to something that works fine

At least the underperforming Oakfather set got a buff to help it

s3dulo · August 14

Agreed. Draugrkin is not a problem at all. There were zero issues or complaints about it before Shattered Path Signet. So now that Shattered Path has been complete nuked for PVP, there is zero reason to touch this decent, but very much non-meta set.

It's changes like this that make me think ZOS is really out of touch with the game.

Zyaneth_Bal · August 14

It was a nice set that offered damage to specific builds in exchange for some healing. Imo it could have had it’s damage increased or add a bonus to dots on top of the old value, increase the penalty if needed.
Burst/crit builds are uncontested meta, they wouldn’t use it even if the old value was significantly increased and block is being abused like never before. It wouldn’t be out of place to increase the power of sets like draugrkin to buff dot builds that have been left behind without the risk of buffing the already dominant builds and playstyles.

For all I care give us more damage, not take it away. High damage is fun, tank meta is boring and pvp has been stuck in the latter for most of eso’s lifetime

Zyaneth_Bal · August 14

s3dulo wrote: »

Agreed. Draugrkin is not a problem at all. There were zero issues or complaints about it before Shattered Path Signet. So now that Shattered Path has been complete nuked for PVP, there is zero reason to touch this decent, but very much non-meta set.

It's changes like this that make me think ZOS is really out of touch with the game.

A bit off topic but personally I rly enjoyed signet too. Having enough damage to threaten those 50k dk/ww and healers felt like a breath of fresh air. Sure I’m facing same high damage but now I actually had to actively play the game to survive and it felt rewarding which is so very rare for eso’s pvp.
I know players who returned for the high damage meta, myself included and left again after it was nuked because it’s fun and what we usually have is not.

madmufffin · August 14

Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »

s3dulo wrote: »

Agreed. Draugrkin is not a problem at all. There were zero issues or complaints about it before Shattered Path Signet. So now that Shattered Path has been complete nuked for PVP, there is zero reason to touch this decent, but very much non-meta set.

It's changes like this that make me think ZOS is really out of touch with the game.

A bit off topic but personally I rly enjoyed signet too. Having enough damage to threaten those 50k dk/ww and healers felt like a breath of fresh air. Sure I’m facing same high damage but now I actually had to actively play the game to survive and it felt rewarding which is so very rare for eso’s pvp

Signet got nuked before I could ever even use it. Was very depressing.

Zyaneth_Bal · August 14

We’ve gone off topic a bit, let’s stick to draugrkin here

Firstmep · August 14

I really don't think think the heal debuff halving is the right direction. Also the extra lines of spell damage are less useful on a build that adds extra flat damage crit or more pen would've been better.

madmufffin · August 14

Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »

s3dulo wrote: »

Agreed. Draugrkin is not a problem at all. There were zero issues or complaints about it before Shattered Path Signet. So now that Shattered Path has been complete nuked for PVP, there is zero reason to touch this decent, but very much non-meta set.

It's changes like this that make me think ZOS is really out of touch with the game.

A bit off topic but personally I rly enjoyed signet too. Having enough damage to threaten those 50k dk/ww and healers felt like a breath of fresh air. Sure I’m facing same high damage but now I actually had to actively play the game to survive and it felt rewarding which is so very rare for eso’s pvp

Signet got nuked before I could ever even use it. Was very depressing.

Let unprepared players with bad/pve gear and no knowledge of pvp die in 1-2 hits. They will learn and improve, if not it’s totally on them. It’s how games work!

I didn't do any pvp the week before it got murdered, but I can't imagine it was any unhealthier gameplay than we get from corrosive/onslaught burst builds

Turtle_Bot · August 14

Firstmep wrote: »

Also the extra lines of spell damage are less useful on a build that adds extra flat damage crit or more pen would've been better.

This part I disagree with. The extra lines of spell damage are a really good change for this set (doesn't offset the nerf to the 5 piece, but it is better than the alternatives).

Crit does better on bigger hits where the huge percent modifiers get significantly more value because it only needs 1 instance of damage to crit, where as on smaller multi-hits, raw damage is much stronger since it raises the overall damage more consistently than crit does since crit has to work for each individual instance and there are typically a lot of them, meaning a lot of chances to not crit even at high crit rate.

Pen is ok, but a lot of players are currently using blocks insane mitigation values and other percent mitigations over armor (mostly because of corrosive and onslaught), meaning that extra pen is very often just wasted stats. Pen also doesn't help with healing, something that weapon damage does, so weapon damage helps defensively that way too.

Zyaneth_Bal · August 14

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

Also the extra lines of spell damage are less useful on a build that adds extra flat damage crit or more pen would've been better.

This part I disagree with. The extra lines of spell damage are a really good change for this set (doesn't offset the nerf to the 5 piece, but it is better than the alternatives).

Crit does better on bigger hits where the huge percent modifiers get significantly more value because it only needs 1 instance of damage to crit, where as on smaller multi-hits, raw damage is much stronger since it raises the overall damage more consistently than crit does since crit has to work for each individual instance and there are typically a lot of them, meaning a lot of chances to not crit even at high crit rate.

Pen is ok, but a lot of players are currently using blocks insane mitigation values and other percent mitigations over armor (mostly because of corrosive and onslaught), meaning that extra pen is very often just wasted stats. Pen also doesn't help with healing, something that weapon damage does, so weapon damage helps defensively that way too.

Pen is by far the best line there is. 5med 1heavy major/minor resolve is 22k resistances, it’s the absolute minimum res you can encounter. Most builds are sitting at around 30k or more, there are more heavy pieces, protected on jewelry, defending trait, class and racial passives, sets, fortified star, these are all extremely common sources and there are more. And unless it’s exceeding target’s resistance pen is the best damage stat in the game.

Iriidius · August 14

madmufffin wrote: »

Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »

s3dulo wrote: »

Agreed. Draugrkin is not a problem at all. There were zero issues or complaints about it before Shattered Path Signet. So now that Shattered Path has been complete nuked for PVP, there is zero reason to touch this decent, but very much non-meta set.

It's changes like this that make me think ZOS is really out of touch with the game.

A bit off topic but personally I rly enjoyed signet too. Having enough damage to threaten those 50k dk/ww and healers felt like a breath of fresh air. Sure I’m facing same high damage but now I actually had to actively play the game to survive and it felt rewarding which is so very rare for eso’s pvp

Signet got nuked before I could ever even use it. Was very depressing.

Let unprepared players with bad/pve gear and no knowledge of pvp die in 1-2 hits. They will learn and improve, if not it’s totally on them. It’s how games work!

I didn't do any pvp the week before it got murdered, but I can't imagine it was any unhealthier gameplay than we get from corrosive/onslaught burst builds

It definitely was unhealther, signet builds could instakill you from range threw block and corrosive and keep that damage up longer than you can dodge. Ritual doesnt help either it the negative effects are placed faster than you can purge them and while mara will purge all effects and heal you up, it has 30 seconds cooldown and status effect spam has none.
How do you defend against that?
Against DK you can at least try staying at range or use block with CC immunity or use defensive ultimate like goliath, vampireult, gibberingshield or corrosive to stay alive longer.

aLi3nZ · August 15

The nerf makes no sense. How about leave as is for PvP or even buff it by replacing those lines they are planning to already,

Zyaneth_Bal · August 16

madmufffin wrote: »

Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »

s3dulo wrote: »

Agreed. Draugrkin is not a problem at all. There were zero issues or complaints about it before Shattered Path Signet. So now that Shattered Path has been complete nuked for PVP, there is zero reason to touch this decent, but very much non-meta set.

It's changes like this that make me think ZOS is really out of touch with the game.

A bit off topic but personally I rly enjoyed signet too. Having enough damage to threaten those 50k dk/ww and healers felt like a breath of fresh air. Sure I’m facing same high damage but now I actually had to actively play the game to survive and it felt rewarding which is so very rare for eso’s pvp

Signet got nuked before I could ever even use it. Was very depressing.

Let unprepared players with bad/pve gear and no knowledge of pvp die in 1-2 hits. They will learn and improve, if not it’s totally on them. It’s how games work!

I didn't do any pvp the week before it got murdered, but I can't imagine it was any unhealthier gameplay than we get from corrosive/onslaught burst builds

Although onslaught is indeed far stronger compared to most other ultis my issue with those builds isn’t damage because it’s a viable build path to offer a limited window of high burst, the problem is how easily they turtle until the next window, blocking most of incoming damage regardless of whether they invest in defense or not. We need something to counteract that. Ofc the issue of high max health contributes to that too.

Radiate77 · August 16

All good, I already went ahead and deconstructed this on all of my characters as it was already niché for DoT builds in PvP, now it isn’t worth slotting anywhere.

We should be adding more options, not removing them, but here we are.

aLi3nZ · August 16

I am testing a DOT sorc build and I need help now with what I should replace draugerkin with on this build.

5x draugerkin front
5x serpents distain on body
1x vateshrun staff back bar

So yeah is there a viable replacement for sorc?

Should I try maybe threads of war front instead?

aLi3nZ · August 16

I’m thinking dragons appetite or threads of war. But ultimately the nerf should not be happening at all. I don’t understand why Zos is doing this. No one asked for it. No one even suggested it’s over preforming in pve or PvP and it’s not.

This is just bad form from Zos. But I don’t think they will listen.