Why hasn't DK been nerfed yet?

BardokRedSnow · 5:40AM

NovelliESO wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Luneca wrote: »

CannedChicken wrote: »

Four_Fingers wrote: »

Were you wearing armor? /joke

I had 43k spell resist and major protection from monomyth. It didn't even help.

Resists don't matter this patch , esp. when fighting DK. You need to be actively defending or you'll simply lose.

Imagine having to actually use core combat skills

People might take these threads more seriously if you recreated the actual hit, its far from normal. People acting like 41k whips are common is why it falls on deaf ears.

Funny coming from someone like you who never actually engages with anything to begin with. If someone says something you don't like you just tune it out and respond with "I know I'm right" when the vast majority of the time you are as far from right as someone can be.

It doesn't matter how common they are, this should not happen from a spammable, and you always move the goal post, before you said this didn't even happen.

Your response to me last time you tried this:

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

NovelliESO wrote: »

Notice how what I posted doesn't get responded to after I dismantled how much stronger pure DK was. Interesting isn't it?

You win.

Lmao this was me ignoring your long winded response, but nice edit

NovelliESO · 6:25AM

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

For people that claimed 40k whip was possible WITHOUT corrosive tho thats still cap, which this video shows.

Who said this person did it without corrosive? The guy had 40k resist everyone would assume it's corrosive. Who are you even talking to? You shadow box nobody constantly.

TheAwesomeChimpanzee · 7:06AM

Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »

Luneca wrote: »

It could be common, it's just that these kind of builds are kept quiet in an obscure Discord because it will ruin the game. The guy that did that likely isn't going to be using it past trolling because most players that PvP have integrity and when finding something extremely busted or unfair decide not to use it or share it & just send feedback to ZOS instead.

It's how I know that DK will be adjusted soon. It's not a maybe, but a definite because no other spec can come close to doing what it is currently doing with those two skills in the same skill line. Stealth adjustments indirectly target stealth leap and stealth whipping, both of which are insane and zero counter gameplay.

Except ZOS wouldn’t nerf DK in that instance. They’d nerf whatever sets or mythic these forbidden Reddit builds are using. As far as they’re concerned, this DK is the plan. Maybe there will be an adjustment or two here and there. But this is the new baseline of power for reworked classes.

Once the reworks are done, everything will be at about this level. For now, enjoy the ride. Or don’t. But all the posts, feedback, complaining, and petitions are falling past the deaf ears and shattering on the ground.

That argument held up when we were getting a new class refresh every three months, not when each rework takes a year and we’re expected to live with this balance in the meantime.

BigPlays420 · 7:07AM

As it stands right now, DK needs a substantial nerf to both Whip and its sustain. You can’t justify leaving one class this far ahead for the better part of a year on the basis that the other classes will eventually be brought up to its level. Balance has to account for the game we’re actually playing now, not where it might be after every rework is finally finished.

Firstmep · 7:11AM

41k whip is ofc an outlier, most I've been hit before was like 25k, but let's be clear that's still way too much. 3 stack whip hits harder than most ultimates while it can be unleashed every 4th global, that's not okay.
As for what the intention of the devs are, how strong they want dk, we don't actually know, so no reason to speculate. We can however give our feedback.

Usureki · 7:42AM

Nordstern · 9:37AM

This must be some exploit or busted set combination. I have never hit or been hit by a whip that was even above 30k. Also keep in mind that your resistances are completely irrelevant in this clip as the attacker got corrosive active.

And while I think corrosive needs a nerf or maybe even be removed/reworked, I dont think whip or any other purely offensive ability should be nerfed at all as long as it's possible to build 50k hp perma block healers.

IncultaWolf · 9:58AM

Yeah but nerf werewolf 🤡

CannedChicken · 12:09PM

Nordstern wrote: »

This must be some exploit or busted set combination. I have never hit or been hit by a whip that was even above 30k. Also keep in mind that your resistances are completely irrelevant in this clip as the attacker got corrosive active.

And while I think corrosive needs a nerf or maybe even be removed/reworked, I dont think whip or any other purely offensive ability should be nerfed at all as long as it's possible to build 50k hp perma block healers.

So you think whip is overpowered, but because you also think perma-blocking 50k HP healers are overpowered, you don’t want to adjust whip?

You’re going to have to square that circle for me. If whip is capable of producing damage that you consider unreasonable, then the existence of another potentially overpowered build doesn’t really justify leaving whip untouched. Those are two separate balance issues.

There is always going to be something that is overpowered in any game, but that doesn’t mean we ignore it because something else is also strong. DK is the only class right now that is going around actually killing people instantly. That seems like a much more pressing balance concern than someone standing around holding block and being difficult to kill.

Teeba_Shei · 1:49PM

Firstmep wrote: »

41k whip is ofc an outlier, most I've been hit before was like 25k, but let's be clear that's still way too much. 3 stack whip hits harder than most ultimates while it can be unleashed every 4th global, that's not okay.
As for what the intention of the devs are, how strong they want dk, we don't actually know, so no reason to speculate. We can however give our feedback.

I get hit all the time for 25k whips, but it's also accompanied by inhale, incinerate, random light attacks and procs, and maybe a leap or corrosive dot. Dying instantly to DK burst has become a daily occurrence.

The people doing it aren't even built as glass cannons. DK just has way too much burst with whip being the worst part of it.

NovelliESO · 2:05PM

Firstmep wrote: »

41k whip is ofc an outlier, most I've been hit before was like 25k, but let's be clear that's still way too much. 3 stack whip hits harder than most ultimates while it can be unleashed every 4th global, that's not okay.
As for what the intention of the devs are, how strong they want dk, we don't actually know, so no reason to speculate. We can however give our feedback.

3 stack whip doesn't hit harder than most, it verifiably hits harder than ALL direct damage ults. Also, the other morph hits almost as hard in AoE without needing 3 stacks and heals for an insane amount. DK has more broken options in a single skill than some classed do in their entire kit.

CameraBeardThePirate · 2:32PM

CannedChicken wrote: »

Four_Fingers wrote: »

Were you wearing armor? /joke

I had 43k spell resist and major protection from monomyth. It didn't even help.

They were in Corrosive so technically Armor is out of the equation entirely.

Not defending the damage at all, but Corrosive makes armor meaningless here.

Wuuffyy · 2:33PM

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

CannedChicken wrote: »

Four_Fingers wrote: »

Were you wearing armor? /joke

I had 43k spell resist and major protection from monomyth. It didn't even help.

They were in Corrosive so technically Armor is out of the equation entirely.

Not defending the damage at all, but Corrosive makes armor meaningless here.

Quick reminder (not saying you don’t already know this) but bonk does the same.

If he bonked him, the whip would have looked the same except accompanied by even more burst.

BardokRedSnow · 2:53PM

NovelliESO wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

For people that claimed 40k whip was possible WITHOUT corrosive tho thats still cap, which this video shows.

Who said this person did it without corrosive? The guy had 40k resist everyone would assume it's corrosive. Who are you even talking to? You shadow box nobody constantly.

Your words not mine lol

There’s been so many of these threads you all blend together, people have claimed 40k whips was possible without corrosive, pretty sure that was you or luneca saying it could be done while in a ball, which would to me mean nerf ballgroups not dk….

I said that was impossible even buffed by a ball and even if I am wrong on that it’s an extremely uncommon scenario

Same even with corrosive, obviously it’s possible but possible doesn’t make it common or easy to pull off which is why the actual build should be examined. So again go look and see all the conditions you gotta do to pull that off, guarantee it’s some glass cannon dk build, and extreme one hit builds have always existed in this game.

Highest whips I saw an actual brawler dk pull was around and over 27k with crit chance at 35%, crit damage 86% and wd at around 7k and he had to use vateshrans back bar maarselok oakfathers dual wield front and so on, and run around line of sighting like crazy

The builds you’re complaining about aren’t common occurrences and I imagine if the likes of you was able to commonly pull off 41k whips or 50k like you claim you would be playing the game more and winning fights there instead of flaunting so called prowess in online debates here

NovelliESO · 2:59PM

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

NovelliESO wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

For people that claimed 40k whip was possible WITHOUT corrosive tho thats still cap, which this video shows.

Who said this person did it without corrosive? The guy had 40k resist everyone would assume it's corrosive. Who are you even talking to? You shadow box nobody constantly.

Your words not mine lol

There’s been so many of these threads you all blend together, people have claimed 40k whips was possible without corrosive, pretty sure that was you or luneca saying it could be done while in a ball, which would to me mean nerf ballgroups not dk….

I said that was impossible even buffed by a ball and even if I am wrong on that it’s an extremely uncommon scenario

Same even with corrosive, obviously it’s possible but possible doesn’t make it common or easy to pull off which is why the actual build should be examined. So again go look and see all the conditions you gotta do to pull that off, guarantee it’s some glass cannon dk build, and extreme one hit builds have always existed in this game.

Highest whips I saw an actual brawler dk pull was around and over 27k with crit chance at 35%, crit damage 86% and wd at around 7k and he had to use vateshrans back bar maarselok oakfathers dual wield front and so on, and run around line of sighting like crazy

The builds you’re complaining about aren’t common occurrences and I imagine if the likes of you was able to commonly pull off 41k whips or 50k like you claim you would be playing the game more and winning fights there instead of flaunting so called prowess in online debates here

You are responding to a video posted by someone of them getting hit with a 40k whip by a single person. My claim was 40k whip in ballgroup. You again, like I have always said, look to derail and obfuscate constantly.

MeridiaFavorsMe · 3:00PM

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

NovelliESO wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

For people that claimed 40k whip was possible WITHOUT corrosive tho thats still cap, which this video shows.

Who said this person did it without corrosive? The guy had 40k resist everyone would assume it's corrosive. Who are you even talking to? You shadow box nobody constantly.

Your words not mine lol

There’s been so many of these threads you all blend together, people have claimed 40k whips was possible without corrosive, pretty sure that was you or luneca saying it could be done while in a ball, which would to me mean nerf ballgroups not dk….

I said that was impossible even buffed by a ball and even if I am wrong on that it’s an extremely uncommon scenario

Same even with corrosive, obviously it’s possible but possible doesn’t make it common or easy to pull off which is why the actual build should be examined. So again go look and see all the conditions you gotta do to pull that off, guarantee it’s some glass cannon dk build, and extreme one hit builds have always existed in this game.

Highest whips I saw an actual brawler dk pull was around and over 27k with crit chance at 35%, crit damage 86% and wd at around 7k and he had to use vateshrans back bar maarselok oakfathers dual wield front and so on, and run around line of sighting like crazy

The builds you’re complaining about aren’t common occurrences and I imagine if the likes of you was able to commonly pull off 41k whips or 50k like you claim you would be playing the game more and winning fights there instead of flaunting so called prowess in online debates here

Something being difficult or requiring a specific build doesn’t make the end result balanced. If you have to stack buffs, use specific sets, and line up conditions to get a massive Whip, that just means there’s a high skill/build ceiling—not that the ceiling is appropriate.

You’re arguing against a claim nobody made. Nobody said every DK is casually hitting 40k Whips. The question is whether Molten Whip’s potential burst is excessive. “40k whip doesn’t happen often” doesn’t answer that. 25k is a pretty common occurrence. That is not okay for a normal spammable with an easy stacking condition.

Teeba_Shei · 3:03PM

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

NovelliESO wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

For people that claimed 40k whip was possible WITHOUT corrosive tho thats still cap, which this video shows.

Who said this person did it without corrosive? The guy had 40k resist everyone would assume it's corrosive. Who are you even talking to? You shadow box nobody constantly.

Your words not mine lol

There’s been so many of these threads you all blend together, people have claimed 40k whips was possible without corrosive, pretty sure that was you or luneca saying it could be done while in a ball, which would to me mean nerf ballgroups not dk….

I said that was impossible even buffed by a ball and even if I am wrong on that it’s an extremely uncommon scenario

Same even with corrosive, obviously it’s possible but possible doesn’t make it common or easy to pull off which is why the actual build should be examined. So again go look and see all the conditions you gotta do to pull that off, guarantee it’s some glass cannon dk build, and extreme one hit builds have always existed in this game.

Highest whips I saw an actual brawler dk pull was around and over 27k with crit chance at 35%, crit damage 86% and wd at around 7k and he had to use vateshrans back bar maarselok oakfathers dual wield front and so on, and run around line of sighting like crazy

The builds you’re complaining about aren’t common occurrences and I imagine if the likes of you was able to commonly pull off 41k whips or 50k like you claim you would be playing the game more and winning fights there instead of flaunting so called prowess in online debates here

The “glass cannon build” argument doesn’t really save Molten Whip. Ball group players can hit these kinds of numbers without sacrificing much, if any, defense, so calling it an extreme glass-cannon setup is misleading. And when a spammable is capable of burst numbers that can rival or exceed what you’d expect from actual ultimates, that’s a pretty obvious balance red flag. Molten Whip simply isn’t okay in its current state.

BardokRedSnow · 3:07PM

So nerf ballgroups not dk problem solved

BardokRedSnow · 3:09PM

MeridiaFavorsMe wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

NovelliESO wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

For people that claimed 40k whip was possible WITHOUT corrosive tho thats still cap, which this video shows.

Who said this person did it without corrosive? The guy had 40k resist everyone would assume it's corrosive. Who are you even talking to? You shadow box nobody constantly.

Your words not mine lol

There’s been so many of these threads you all blend together, people have claimed 40k whips was possible without corrosive, pretty sure that was you or luneca saying it could be done while in a ball, which would to me mean nerf ballgroups not dk….

I said that was impossible even buffed by a ball and even if I am wrong on that it’s an extremely uncommon scenario

Same even with corrosive, obviously it’s possible but possible doesn’t make it common or easy to pull off which is why the actual build should be examined. So again go look and see all the conditions you gotta do to pull that off, guarantee it’s some glass cannon dk build, and extreme one hit builds have always existed in this game.

Highest whips I saw an actual brawler dk pull was around and over 27k with crit chance at 35%, crit damage 86% and wd at around 7k and he had to use vateshrans back bar maarselok oakfathers dual wield front and so on, and run around line of sighting like crazy

The builds you’re complaining about aren’t common occurrences and I imagine if the likes of you was able to commonly pull off 41k whips or 50k like you claim you would be playing the game more and winning fights there instead of flaunting so called prowess in online debates here

Something being difficult or requiring a specific build doesn’t make the end result balanced. If you have to stack buffs, use specific sets, and line up conditions to get a massive Whip, that just means there’s a high skill/build ceiling—not that the ceiling is appropriate.

You’re arguing against a claim nobody made. Nobody said every DK is casually hitting 40k Whips. The question is whether Molten Whip’s potential burst is excessive. “40k whip doesn’t happen often” doesn’t answer that. 25k is a pretty common occurrence. That is not okay for a normal spammable with an easy stacking condition.

If it’s not common or usual then there’s no need for a nerf, it’s so uncommon most players have never even seen it before

You’re complaining about something you’ll likely never encounter, you’re more likely to get ganked by a Sorc than a dk

MeridiaFavorsMe · 3:14PM

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

MeridiaFavorsMe wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

NovelliESO wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

For people that claimed 40k whip was possible WITHOUT corrosive tho thats still cap, which this video shows.

Who said this person did it without corrosive? The guy had 40k resist everyone would assume it's corrosive. Who are you even talking to? You shadow box nobody constantly.

Your words not mine lol

There’s been so many of these threads you all blend together, people have claimed 40k whips was possible without corrosive, pretty sure that was you or luneca saying it could be done while in a ball, which would to me mean nerf ballgroups not dk….

I said that was impossible even buffed by a ball and even if I am wrong on that it’s an extremely uncommon scenario

Same even with corrosive, obviously it’s possible but possible doesn’t make it common or easy to pull off which is why the actual build should be examined. So again go look and see all the conditions you gotta do to pull that off, guarantee it’s some glass cannon dk build, and extreme one hit builds have always existed in this game.

Highest whips I saw an actual brawler dk pull was around and over 27k with crit chance at 35%, crit damage 86% and wd at around 7k and he had to use vateshrans back bar maarselok oakfathers dual wield front and so on, and run around line of sighting like crazy

The builds you’re complaining about aren’t common occurrences and I imagine if the likes of you was able to commonly pull off 41k whips or 50k like you claim you would be playing the game more and winning fights there instead of flaunting so called prowess in online debates here

Something being difficult or requiring a specific build doesn’t make the end result balanced. If you have to stack buffs, use specific sets, and line up conditions to get a massive Whip, that just means there’s a high skill/build ceiling—not that the ceiling is appropriate.

You’re arguing against a claim nobody made. Nobody said every DK is casually hitting 40k Whips. The question is whether Molten Whip’s potential burst is excessive. “40k whip doesn’t happen often” doesn’t answer that. 25k is a pretty common occurrence. That is not okay for a normal spammable with an easy stacking condition.

MeridiaFavorsMe wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

NovelliESO wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

For people that claimed 40k whip was possible WITHOUT corrosive tho thats still cap, which this video shows.

Who said this person did it without corrosive? The guy had 40k resist everyone would assume it's corrosive. Who are you even talking to? You shadow box nobody constantly.

Your words not mine lol

There’s been so many of these threads you all blend together, people have claimed 40k whips was possible without corrosive, pretty sure that was you or luneca saying it could be done while in a ball, which would to me mean nerf ballgroups not dk….

I said that was impossible even buffed by a ball and even if I am wrong on that it’s an extremely uncommon scenario

Same even with corrosive, obviously it’s possible but possible doesn’t make it common or easy to pull off which is why the actual build should be examined. So again go look and see all the conditions you gotta do to pull that off, guarantee it’s some glass cannon dk build, and extreme one hit builds have always existed in this game.

Highest whips I saw an actual brawler dk pull was around and over 27k with crit chance at 35%, crit damage 86% and wd at around 7k and he had to use vateshrans back bar maarselok oakfathers dual wield front and so on, and run around line of sighting like crazy

The builds you’re complaining about aren’t common occurrences and I imagine if the likes of you was able to commonly pull off 41k whips or 50k like you claim you would be playing the game more and winning fights there instead of flaunting so called prowess in online debates here

Something being difficult or requiring a specific build doesn’t make the end result balanced. If you have to stack buffs, use specific sets, and line up conditions to get a massive Whip, that just means there’s a high skill/build ceiling—not that the ceiling is appropriate.

You’re arguing against a claim nobody made. Nobody said every DK is casually hitting 40k Whips. The question is whether Molten Whip’s potential burst is excessive. “40k whip doesn’t happen often” doesn’t answer that. 25k is a pretty common occurrence. That is not okay for a normal spammable with an easy stacking condition.

If it’s not common or usual then there’s no need for a nerf, it’s so uncommon most players have never even seen it before

You’re complaining about something you’ll likely never encounter, you’re more likely to get ganked by a Sorc than a dk

It not being common was your argument, not mine. I don’t know why you’re replying to your own arguments. I simply said it isn’t something someone does casually. “Casually” and “common” aren’t the same thing. You still aren’t addressing the root of my arguments and instead seem to be responding to things I’m not actually saying.

AdonisJorge · 3:15PM

My suggestion is that whip get oblivion damage of 30k when full stacked so it do not get reduced by any resistance and not buffed by anything, perfectly balanced as DK should be