DeathandDebauchery wrote: »

Unfortunately, you can already see the impact of communities spamming their specific issue, I absolutely appreciate that there is a strong polish community in ESO, but there was clearly a concerted effort here to pump this issue already

A "concerted effort"? I am one of the two people who initiated bringing this issue to the board. I actually came up with the idea this morning during my break at work, and Arkana was the first to post about it. After that, we mentioned it on the Discord servers of Polish guilds we know, but that is just standard community communication. We simply wanted to let people who are affected know that they could support the issue. And in fact, quite A LOT of people are affected, because the Polish community is quite large, and the demand for Polish translation is strong. A topic climbing fast isn't evidence of manipulation, it's evidence of how many people are waiting for this.

After we upvote something, but choose not to follow it, please let us remember that option. right now, this pops up every time we upvote:

Add a "remember this decision" to this dialog, please!

There should be a pointer to this in the menu at the top of this page next to Forum or Support, otherwise you'd never find it. We've been spreading the word on Discord but it's hard to find even if you know it's there without the link.

DeathandDebauchery wrote: »

By definition, going in to multiple discords for your community and asking everyone to upvote an issue is - a "concerted effort" - I'm not making a values based argument about your issue, i'm merely pointing out how easy the current system is to result in inflated valuations that don't reflect the actual mainstay userbases desires. As noted earlier in this thread, OSRS had the same issue until they moved the system in-game and restricted it to 1 vote per account.

Fair enough, if your point is simply that voting should be restricted to 1 vote per account, then we are in complete agreement. A system like that would definitely be more representative. I just don't like the implication that our votes don't reflect the 'mainstay userbase.' Polish players are a large, dedicated, and paying part of this community. We are part of the mainstay userbase, and our needs are just as valid as anyone else's.

Catariah wrote: »

DeathandDebauchery wrote: »

By definition, going in to multiple discords for your community and asking everyone to upvote an issue is - a "concerted effort" - I'm not making a values based argument about your issue, i'm merely pointing out how easy the current system is to result in inflated valuations that don't reflect the actual mainstay userbases desires. As noted earlier in this thread, OSRS had the same issue until they moved the system in-game and restricted it to 1 vote per account.

Fair enough, if your point is simply that voting should be restricted to 1 vote per account, then we are in complete agreement. A system like that would definitely be more representative. I just don't like the implication that our votes don't reflect the 'mainstay userbase.' Polish players are a large, dedicated, and paying part of this community. We are part of the mainstay userbase, and our needs are just as valid as anyone else's.

I'm not going to say that a desire to have the game translated to players' native language should be dismissed, but I highly doubt that Polish translation is really the top concern for the majority of players. And right now it's in the first place. So, this poll clearly is not going to be a a picture of what most players see as a proirity.

I've seen this issue with voting in Runescape when I played it years ago.

DenverRalphy wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

Catariah wrote: »

DeathandDebauchery wrote: »

By definition, going in to multiple discords for your community and asking everyone to upvote an issue is - a "concerted effort" - I'm not making a values based argument about your issue, i'm merely pointing out how easy the current system is to result in inflated valuations that don't reflect the actual mainstay userbases desires. As noted earlier in this thread, OSRS had the same issue until they moved the system in-game and restricted it to 1 vote per account.

Fair enough, if your point is simply that voting should be restricted to 1 vote per account, then we are in complete agreement. A system like that would definitely be more representative. I just don't like the implication that our votes don't reflect the 'mainstay userbase.' Polish players are a large, dedicated, and paying part of this community. We are part of the mainstay userbase, and our needs are just as valid as anyone else's.

I'm not going to say that a desire to have the game translated to players' native language should be dismissed, but I highly doubt that Polish translation is really the top concern for the majority of players. And right now it's in the first place. So, this poll clearly is not going to be a a picture of what most players see as a priority.

I've seen this issue with voting in Runescape when I played it years ago.

To be fair.. the site has been available barely more than a day. Less than 0.001% of the game's population is even aware of it's existence. Give it at least a couple of weeks before drawing any conclusions.

Besides which, it's not a competition. Taking and holding the top spot has no recognizable impact or value.

Saying that it's a competition would be a stretch indeed. However, in my understanding, the votes are added to gauge which features are very wanted by the playerbase. If anyone can vote as many times as they want then that defies the purpose of voting. Add to this that most of the playersbase probably will not be even aware of these board, and you will get even more unreliable results.

As for "give it a couple of weeks", as I said in my previous post, I experienced this same issue in Runescape years ago. So, I've seen how it unfolds over time.

DeathandDebauchery wrote: »

Unfortunately, you can already see the impact of communities spamming their specific issue, I absolutely appreciate that there is a strong polish community in ESO, but there was clearly a concerted effort here to pump this issue already:

,

Perhaps make logging in required in order to vote, and log-ins tied to votes, one vote per issue per account? This feels pretty easily manipulatable right now.

You can also see it with niche guild specific issues being highly voted for a while there even though several of them are niche concerns that only impact a couple of people in said guilds.

Pretty obvious that players are asking people to vote for those things and then the ones with greater reach are able to make their pet issues seem more popular than they would be without that.

I actually think the player reach thing is probably the biggest problem with having voting setup as it is. It heavily biases things that guild leaders and content creators want over the general playerbase.

This is true with any unprotected voting system in video games really. It will devolve into a popularity contest of the most popular people rather than the most popular ideas. People are naturally going to ask their friends to support their ideas in game and then the person with more friends will win regardless of what the playerbase as a whole wants.

Sharing links allows vote manipulation as does allowing more than 1 vote per account. You can clearly see this with the top two choices. It is obvious those are a result of link sharing.

It should be 1 vote per account, placed in-game with rewards for participation, and randomized displays of ideas and the vote total hidden. If that would be too much with user submitted ideas, they could ask for submissions and then populate the most frequent submissions themselves.

Something like that would be much more accurate.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Sharing links allows vote manipulation as does allowing more than 1 vote per account. You can clearly see this with the top two choices. It is obvious those are a result of link sharing.

It should be 1 vote per account, placed in-game with rewards for participation, and randomized displays of ideas and the vote total hidden. If that would be too much with user submitted ideas, they could ask for submissions and then populate the most frequent submissions themselves.

Something like that would be much more accurate.

Erickson9610 wrote: »

I really wish we had an in-game voting system for this. It would reach the players who are actually playing the game, not just anyone who looks at ESO-related social media.

Upvote fore these two.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

You can also see it with niche guild specific issues being highly voted for a while there even though several of them are niche concerns that only impact a couple of people in said guilds.

Pretty obvious that players are asking people to vote for those things and then the ones with greater reach are able to make their pet issues seem more popular than they would be without that.

I actually think the player reach thing is probably the biggest problem with having voting setup as it is. It heavily biases things that guild leaders and content creators want over the general playerbase.

I'd agree with this, but I guess I see this as the one of the (negative) consequences of a social media-fuelled society. But you're right that in this era, popular people have outsized influence on issues.

Polish language option is more important than class reworks, mmkay. Sure Jan.

Can we fix this obvious vote abuse. Should be one vote only, registered from a signed in forum account.

CAB_Life wrote: »

Polish language option is more important than class reworks, mmkay. Sure Jan.

Can we fix this obvious vote abuse. Should be one vote only, registered from a signed in forum account.

Yes. Not forum account, though, but game account.
That this hasn't been considered, in the age of social media, review bombing, astroturfing*, Boaty McBoatface, and all the other reasons why we can't have nice stuff, is a bit baffling. In the end, if this should get any sort of popularity, containing the shortcomings of a quick'n'dirty voting will eat more time and effort than making it more secure in the first place.

* Not saying that's happening here, but there've been lots of red flags for "just make a poll on the internet" to at least make sure it's not easily skewable.

Actually i can upvote one point over and over again every 5 Minutes, from every available device, webbrowser, configuration etc. Does that make sense? Every no Eso-Player can abuse it like this.

I agree that voting should require logging into a game account - not the forum account, because not every player has one. And if you don’t have a game account, you aren’t an ESO player, so it makes no sense for you to have a say in the polls.

That being said, some of you are taking this way too seriously. I have to agree with the person who mentioned that this isn't a competition, and there is no reward for taking first place. Furthermore, sharing links with people who might be interested isn't "cheating" the system; that's how virtually every online petition works. If there's a topic that affects a particular group of players, of course they're going to let each other know about it. I have shared links with in-game friends for suggestions that weren't even mine (like being able to have both Khajiit markings and tattoos at the same time), simply because I agreed with them. If you are complaining that not enough people know about this board or that a specific topic isn't popular enough - guess what? You can share the link yourself.

I disagree with the idea that this should be made into an in-game feature. The big advantage of an online board is that you can read it on your phone. I can browse that page when I'm bored away from home or just chilling in bed. When I am playing the game, I prefer to actually play the game, not spend my time reading through hundreds of suggestions.