New Community Input Dashboards

Kallykat · August 4

I like the idea of these boards. I do think making them default to "New" would help a little with curbing first-seen biases. I'm also wondering if there's a way to voice your opinion if you really dislike a proposed change. In the past, I know there have been some hotly debated changes proposed and even implemented in the game with a large group of people supporting the change and an equally large group of people against the change. The way these boards work right now, a controversial suggestion of that nature would have a lot of upvotes but no way to see the "downvotes," which would tell a skewed story.

Catariah · August 4

DeathandDebauchery wrote: »

Unfortunately, you can already see the impact of communities spamming their specific issue, I absolutely appreciate that there is a strong polish community in ESO, but there was clearly a concerted effort here to pump this issue already

A "concerted effort"? I am one of the two people who initiated bringing this issue to the board. I actually came up with the idea this morning during my break at work, and Arkana was the first to post about it. After that, we mentioned it on the Discord servers of Polish guilds we know, but that is just standard community communication. We simply wanted to let people who are affected know that they could support the issue. And in fact, quite A LOT of people are affected, because the Polish community is quite large, and the demand for Polish translation is strong. A topic climbing fast isn't evidence of manipulation, it's evidence of how many people are waiting for this.

Dax_Draconis · August 4

That’s a nice addition, but I do hope it will never be the case that only a few hundred players will ever be influencing the priorities of a game that supposedly millions of people play.

allochthons · August 4

After we upvote something, but choose not to follow it, please let us remember that option. right now, this pops up every time we upvote:

Add a "remember this decision" to this dialog, please!

allochthons · August 4

Kallykat wrote: »

<snip>
I'm also wondering if there's a way to voice your opinion if you really dislike a proposed change. In the past, I know there have been some hotly debated changes proposed and even implemented in the game with a large group of people supporting the change and an equally large group of people against the change. The way these boards work right now, a controversial suggestion of that nature would have a lot of upvotes but no way to see the "downvotes," which would tell a skewed story.

(Completely reversing what I said earlier in this thread) We can use comments for that. It's not a downvote, but issues with a suggestion can be (thoughtfully, constructively) pointed out or workshopped.
Downvotes can be as easily manipulated as upvotes. I think the fact every suggestion, and every comment, has to be approved, will help to smooth out the bias.

Aashiana · August 4

There should be a pointer to this in the menu at the top of this page next to Forum or Support, otherwise you'd never find it. We've been spreading the word on Discord but it's hard to find even if you know it's there without the link.

DeathandDebauchery · August 4

Catariah wrote: »

DeathandDebauchery wrote: »

Unfortunately, you can already see the impact of communities spamming their specific issue, I absolutely appreciate that there is a strong polish community in ESO, but there was clearly a concerted effort here to pump this issue already

A "concerted effort"? I am one of the two people who initiated bringing this issue to the board. I actually came up with the idea this morning during my break at work, and Arkana was the first to post about it. After that, we mentioned it on the Discord servers of Polish guilds we know, but that is just standard community communication. We simply wanted to let people who are affected know that they could support the issue. And in fact, quite A LOT of people are affected, because the Polish community is quite large, and the demand for Polish translation is strong. A topic climbing fast isn't evidence of manipulation, it's evidence of how many people are waiting for this.

By definition, going in to multiple discords for your community and asking everyone to upvote an issue is - a "concerted effort" - I'm not making a values based argument about your issue, i'm merely pointing out how easy the current system is to result in inflated valuations that don't reflect the actual mainstay userbases desires. As noted earlier in this thread, OSRS had the same issue until they moved the system in-game and restricted it to 1 vote per account.

Catariah · August 4

DeathandDebauchery wrote: »

By definition, going in to multiple discords for your community and asking everyone to upvote an issue is - a "concerted effort" - I'm not making a values based argument about your issue, i'm merely pointing out how easy the current system is to result in inflated valuations that don't reflect the actual mainstay userbases desires. As noted earlier in this thread, OSRS had the same issue until they moved the system in-game and restricted it to 1 vote per account.

Fair enough, if your point is simply that voting should be restricted to 1 vote per account, then we are in complete agreement. A system like that would definitely be more representative. I just don't like the implication that our votes don't reflect the 'mainstay userbase.' Polish players are a large, dedicated, and paying part of this community. We are part of the mainstay userbase, and our needs are just as valid as anyone else's.

Soarora · August 4

I’ve been really enjoying this new system (and for sure I have plenty more ideas to throw in there…) and honestly, it’s been a fantastic turn from the forums (at least for now, much better for the brain… haha…). I’m excited to see the dev tagging part of the system see more use (the aryenn thiccness response was great, by the way) and I hope this works out! Certainly has great potential!

ESO_player123 · August 4

Catariah wrote: »

DeathandDebauchery wrote: »

By definition, going in to multiple discords for your community and asking everyone to upvote an issue is - a "concerted effort" - I'm not making a values based argument about your issue, i'm merely pointing out how easy the current system is to result in inflated valuations that don't reflect the actual mainstay userbases desires. As noted earlier in this thread, OSRS had the same issue until they moved the system in-game and restricted it to 1 vote per account.

Fair enough, if your point is simply that voting should be restricted to 1 vote per account, then we are in complete agreement. A system like that would definitely be more representative. I just don't like the implication that our votes don't reflect the 'mainstay userbase.' Polish players are a large, dedicated, and paying part of this community. We are part of the mainstay userbase, and our needs are just as valid as anyone else's.

I'm not going to say that a desire to have the game translated to players' native language should be dismissed, but I highly doubt that Polish translation is really the top concern for the majority of players. And right now it's in the first place. So, this poll clearly is not going to be a a picture of what most players see as a proirity.

I've seen this issue with voting in Runescape when I played it years ago.

DenverRalphy · 12:08AM

ESO_player123 wrote: »

Catariah wrote: »

DeathandDebauchery wrote: »

By definition, going in to multiple discords for your community and asking everyone to upvote an issue is - a "concerted effort" - I'm not making a values based argument about your issue, i'm merely pointing out how easy the current system is to result in inflated valuations that don't reflect the actual mainstay userbases desires. As noted earlier in this thread, OSRS had the same issue until they moved the system in-game and restricted it to 1 vote per account.

Fair enough, if your point is simply that voting should be restricted to 1 vote per account, then we are in complete agreement. A system like that would definitely be more representative. I just don't like the implication that our votes don't reflect the 'mainstay userbase.' Polish players are a large, dedicated, and paying part of this community. We are part of the mainstay userbase, and our needs are just as valid as anyone else's.

I'm not going to say that a desire to have the game translated to players' native language should be dismissed, but I highly doubt that Polish translation is really the top concern for the majority of players. And right now it's in the first place. So, this poll clearly is not going to be a a picture of what most players see as a priority.

I've seen this issue with voting in Runescape when I played it years ago.

To be fair.. the site has been available barely more than a day. Less than 0.001% of the game's population is even aware of it's existence. Give it at least a couple of weeks before drawing any conclusions.

Besides which, it's not a competition. Taking and holding the top spot has no recognizable impact or value.

ESO_player123 · 1:01AM

DenverRalphy wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

Catariah wrote: »

DeathandDebauchery wrote: »

By definition, going in to multiple discords for your community and asking everyone to upvote an issue is - a "concerted effort" - I'm not making a values based argument about your issue, i'm merely pointing out how easy the current system is to result in inflated valuations that don't reflect the actual mainstay userbases desires. As noted earlier in this thread, OSRS had the same issue until they moved the system in-game and restricted it to 1 vote per account.

Fair enough, if your point is simply that voting should be restricted to 1 vote per account, then we are in complete agreement. A system like that would definitely be more representative. I just don't like the implication that our votes don't reflect the 'mainstay userbase.' Polish players are a large, dedicated, and paying part of this community. We are part of the mainstay userbase, and our needs are just as valid as anyone else's.

I'm not going to say that a desire to have the game translated to players' native language should be dismissed, but I highly doubt that Polish translation is really the top concern for the majority of players. And right now it's in the first place. So, this poll clearly is not going to be a a picture of what most players see as a priority.

I've seen this issue with voting in Runescape when I played it years ago.

To be fair.. the site has been available barely more than a day. Less than 0.001% of the game's population is even aware of it's existence. Give it at least a couple of weeks before drawing any conclusions.

Besides which, it's not a competition. Taking and holding the top spot has no recognizable impact or value.

Saying that it's a competition would be a stretch indeed. However, in my understanding, the votes are added to gauge which features are very wanted by the playerbase. If anyone can vote as many times as they want then that defies the purpose of voting. Add to this that most of the playersbase probably will not be even aware of these board, and you will get even more unreliable results.

As for "give it a couple of weeks", as I said in my previous post, I experienced this same issue in Runescape years ago. So, I've seen how it unfolds over time.

Umbracat449 · 2:08AM

ESO_player123 wrote: »

Umbracat449 wrote: »

DeathandDebauchery wrote: »

Unfortunately, you can already see the impact of communities spamming their specific issue, I absolutely appreciate that there is a strong polish community in ESO, but there was clearly a concerted effort here to pump this issue already:

,

Perhaps make logging in required in order to vote, and log-ins tied to votes, one vote per issue per account? This feels pretty easily manipulatable right now.

Please don't make login required, and 263 votes isn't a game changer. Glad to see a strong community around an idea, hope i find one for my suggestion.

This whole thing cant be about preventing ideas, it has to be about possibilities.

The poll allows ANYONE with the link to the poll to vote multiple times. How can this be a good thing? As for possibilites, people can exchage ideas on Reddit/this forum without any polling.

Because we are not voting for a head of government.

spartaxoxo · 2:10AM

DeathandDebauchery wrote: »

Unfortunately, you can already see the impact of communities spamming their specific issue, I absolutely appreciate that there is a strong polish community in ESO, but there was clearly a concerted effort here to pump this issue already:

,

Perhaps make logging in required in order to vote, and log-ins tied to votes, one vote per issue per account? This feels pretty easily manipulatable right now.

You can also see it with niche guild specific issues being highly voted for a while there even though several of them are niche concerns that only impact a couple of people in said guilds.

Pretty obvious that players are asking people to vote for those things and then the ones with greater reach are able to make their pet issues seem more popular than they would be without that.

I actually think the player reach thing is probably the biggest problem with having voting setup as it is. It heavily biases things that guild leaders and content creators want over the general playerbase.

This is true with any unprotected voting system in video games really. It will devolve into a popularity contest of the most popular people rather than the most popular ideas. People are naturally going to ask their friends to support their ideas in game and then the person with more friends will win regardless of what the playerbase as a whole wants.

BretonMage · 2:16AM

I don't think there's anything wrong with sharing links per se. Something I think they need to look at is whether people have been able to cast their vote multiple times. @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

I know that after I cleared my cookies, I was able to vote again on a post, but I don't know if that influenced the vote count because I wasn't keeping track of the number of votes.

Edit: I'd support some form of logging in with your account credentials to vote tbh.

spartaxoxo · 2:29AM

Sharing links allows vote manipulation as does allowing more than 1 vote per account. You can clearly see this with the top two choices. It is obvious those are a result of link sharing.

It should be 1 vote per account, placed in-game with rewards for participation, and randomized displays of ideas and the vote total hidden. If that would be too much with user submitted ideas, they could ask for submissions and then populate the most frequent submissions themselves.

Something like that would be much more accurate.

Erickson9610 · 2:39AM

I really wish we had an in-game voting system for this. It would reach the players who are actually playing the game, not just anyone who looks at ESO-related social media.

ESO_player123 · 2:51AM

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Sharing links allows vote manipulation as does allowing more than 1 vote per account. You can clearly see this with the top two choices. It is obvious those are a result of link sharing.

It should be 1 vote per account, placed in-game with rewards for participation, and randomized displays of ideas and the vote total hidden. If that would be too much with user submitted ideas, they could ask for submissions and then populate the most frequent submissions themselves.

Something like that would be much more accurate.

Erickson9610 wrote: »

I really wish we had an in-game voting system for this. It would reach the players who are actually playing the game, not just anyone who looks at ESO-related social media.

Upvote fore these two.