spartaxoxo wrote: »

What does green vs red mean here

Green are confirmed to still be at ZOS, red are confirmed to be laid off.

Neither means I wasn't able to confirm or deny, although I did confirm at least 3 of those got laid off, per the Maryland Dept. of Labor WARN notice.

Seraphayel wrote: »

Moonsorrow wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

p4l4mu7 wrote: »

Their genius monetization designer assumed selling cosmetics, crafting bag and battle passes alone would be enough to sustain a game the size of ESO. I guess reality finally hit them, you can't keep developing new content without income.

I'm 100% certain that new cosmetics generate way more revenue than a new trial ever could.

Except the fact that.. if there is no new content in a game like in other mmo games, then why would people spend money in cosmetics and other things like that? Cosmetics, even new ones, in Crown Store is not new content.

In other games gets actual real new content, you know dungeons, trials, new big zones/maps to play. I don't mind spending money in such games, those games also do "class reworks" all classes at once, on top of other content.

MMO ecosystem needs all kinds of content, trials, dungeons, pvp and that makes people feel the game is alive and then they spend money on it. Even if some individual player would not do all or just certain type content, it's good for the game that it does get all, and in certain scheduled intervals. It's quite simple. Or the game starts bleeding out players faster than gets new ones. They go in games where there are things to do and things to expect, in scheduled content updates that feels normal in this gaming space.

There is new content, there is just no new trial or dungeon. This game has what, 50 dungeons and over a dozen trials and the game is so vast and rich of PvE content

spartaxoxo wrote: »

XVestigeXx wrote: »

You have gotten PVE content overwhelmingly for 12 years plus the class refreshes this year. Let PvP get something for once.

For once? PvP has been getting focus for years now. Necrom gave us 3 sided BGs, then we got Vengeance, and now Jerall Mountains.

That's not content, that's a slight adjustment to existing stuff. Like the solo dungeons coming in the next update. Vengeance is something barely anyone asked for anyway. Jerall Mountains is the only PvP content that will truly be new after an eternity.

PvE already got stuff this year, they can wait for something new, it's the only area of the game they've been constantly catering to. If 50 dungeons and a dozen trials are not enough to bridge the gap for some time, then that's a you problem.

If 2 sided Battlegrounds wasn't new content but only a slight adjustment, it wouldn't have gotten so many threads about how much it completely changed the game mode for the worse.

2 sided BGs had new maps, rulesets, power ups, etc. It was content. People just didn't like it.

Same for vengeance. That might be the same map so much more recycled than BGs but it's a different enough ruleset that people who like one won't necessarily enjoy the other.

Group PvE did not get any permanent new content this year.

The trial was pushed back. There were no dungeons.

We got the night market but that was an event.

So no, group PvE has not been consistently catered towards.

Solo questers sure but not Group PvE. Group PvE has been getting gutted for years now in favor of PvP and quality of life changes.

I don't even have a problem with Jerral Mountains but to act like group PvE has been getting pampered while PvP got nothing is not the case for a few years now. Disliking the content is not the same as not receiving it. If it were, we'd have 6 more dungeons and a trial by now. These were massive development efforts that required cutting PvE stuff and group PvE got hit particularly hard by that.

And unlike PvP, it is not evergreen content where the experience differs every time you join it. So going into Cyrodiil over and over is a vastly different experience than doing Fungal Grotto. So let's not act like there being old dungeons means anything about there being little new group PvE content for going on 3 years now and that development resources for that didn't mostly go to PvP and QOL changes.

Marto wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

What does green vs red mean here

Green are confirmed to still be at ZOS, red are confirmed to be laid off.

Neither means I wasn't able to confirm or deny, although I did confirm at least 3 of those got laid off, per the Maryland Dept. of Labor WARN notice.

Ah I see. Man really goes to show how hard the team got hit.

Seraphayel wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

So no, group PvE has not been consistently catered towards.

PvE content is the only stuff that has been in basically every update since the release of this game. Lots of it also for groups. There are several groups of players that have a reason to complain, PvE players for sure are not part of that group. We got group content this year in form of the Night Market and the dynamic events now. It might not be what you like, but it's still PvE content you need a group for.

Night Market was an event. Dynamic Encounters I suppose do count on a technical level as you aren't just supposed to solo them. But they are not the type of content designed specifically for the type of players who enjoy things like dungeons, trials, and group arenas.

You're lumping in completely different types of PvE content that caters to completely different types of users as the same thing. 2 Sided BGs was intended for the same crowd as 3 sided BGs and was simply a flop.

Solo PvE content isn't the same as Group PvE content. It's not intended to be either.

That's like saying duels are the same thing as Battlegrounds. Or saying that PvP has been a focus since High Isle because you guys got Tales of Tribute.

Tales of Tribute isn't content that was ever designed for people who enjoy Cyrodiil. Vengeance was regardless if it flopped. Dynamic Encounters wasn't content ever designed to substitute for dungeons. Night Market was but it was temporary.

Saying group PvE players have no right to complain about the lack of content is exactly the problem with the revisionist idea that group PvE has been getting plenty these last few years just because they're PvE players. Everyone has a right to complain.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Group PvE did not get any permanent new content this year.

The trial was pushed back. There were no dungeons.

We got the night market but that was an event.

Still, the Night Market lasted 3 months and pretty much required grouping, so to brush it off as "no content" doesn't make sense. People who enjoy that type of content played it for the 3 months and had a lot of fun with it.

Solo questers sure but not Group PvE. Group PvE has been getting gutted for years now in favor of PvP and quality of life changes.

So far this year, solo questers haven't received a lot of content compared to something like the Night Market. The two storyline quests can each be done in a day, certainly within a few days. The favours offer 15 minutes of content per day (in zones and areas we've already seen, so nothing new) for 20 days, then they're done. I understand that we'll be getting rumours, solo dungeons, and the nowhere vault, but not having seen them yet, we don't know how much content they'll offer. The High Seas of Tamriel (or whatever it's called) is also coming and might require grouping.

And unlike PvP, it is not evergreen content where the experience differs every time you join it. So going into Cyrodiil over and over is a vastly different experience than doing Fungal Grotto. So let's not act like there being old dungeons means anything about there being little new group PvE content for going on 3 years now and that development resources for that didn't mostly go to PvP and QOL changes.

The same goes for solo content. All that massive story content isn't evergreen. All the zones aren't evergreen. All the delves aren't evergreen. All the public dungeons aren't evergreen.

Honestly, trying to say who's getting the most content is kind of moot at this point. EVERYONE is getting less content, regardless of what they like to do. As for this year so far, group PvE has received the most content with the Night Market (the only new zone, and timewise, much more content than anything else so far), but that could be balanced out by the end of the year with what's upcoming.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Moonsorrow wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

p4l4mu7 wrote: »

Their genius monetization designer assumed selling cosmetics, crafting bag and battle passes alone would be enough to sustain a game the size of ESO. I guess reality finally hit them, you can't keep developing new content without income.

I'm 100% certain that new cosmetics generate way more revenue than a new trial ever could.

Except the fact that.. if there is no new content in a game like in other mmo games, then why would people spend money in cosmetics and other things like that? Cosmetics, even new ones, in Crown Store is not new content.

In other games gets actual real new content, you know dungeons, trials, new big zones/maps to play. I don't mind spending money in such games, those games also do "class reworks" all classes at once, on top of other content.

MMO ecosystem needs all kinds of content, trials, dungeons, pvp and that makes people feel the game is alive and then they spend money on it. Even if some individual player would not do all or just certain type content, it's good for the game that it does get all, and in certain scheduled intervals. It's quite simple. Or the game starts bleeding out players faster than gets new ones. They go in games where there are things to do and things to expect, in scheduled content updates that feels normal in this gaming space.

There is new content, there is just no new trial or dungeon. This game has what, 50 dungeons and over a dozen trials and the game is so vast and rich of PvE content

spartaxoxo wrote: »

XVestigeXx wrote: »

You have gotten PVE content overwhelmingly for 12 years plus the class refreshes this year. Let PvP get something for once.

For once? PvP has been getting focus for years now. Necrom gave us 3 sided BGs, then we got Vengeance, and now Jerall Mountains.

That's not content, that's a slight adjustment to existing stuff. Like the solo dungeons coming in the next update. Vengeance is something barely anyone asked for anyway. Jerall Mountains is the only PvP content that will truly be new after an eternity.

PvE already got stuff this year, they can wait for something new, it's the only area of the game they've been constantly catering to. If 50 dungeons and a dozen trials are not enough to bridge the gap for some time, then that's a you problem.

If 2 sided Battlegrounds wasn't new content but only a slight adjustment, it wouldn't have gotten so many threads about how much it completely changed the game mode for the worse.

2 sided BGs had new maps, rulesets, power ups, etc. It was content. People just didn't like it.

Same for vengeance. That might be the same map so much more recycled than BGs but it's a different enough ruleset that people who like one won't necessarily enjoy the other.

Group PvE did not get any permanent new content this year.

The trial was pushed back. There were no dungeons.

We got the night market but that was an event.

So no, group PvE has not been consistently catered towards.

Solo questers sure but not Group PvE. Group PvE has been getting gutted for years now in favor of PvP and quality of life changes.

I don't even have a problem with Jerral Mountains but to act like group PvE has been getting pampered while PvP got nothing is not the case for a few years now. Disliking the content is not the same as not receiving it. If it were, we'd have 6 more dungeons and a trial by now. These were massive development efforts that required cutting PvE stuff and group PvE got hit particularly hard by that.

And unlike PvP, it is not evergreen content where the experience differs every time you join it. So going into Cyrodiil over and over is a vastly different experience than doing Fungal Grotto. So let's not act like there being old dungeons means anything about there being little new group PvE content for going on 3 years now and that development resources for that didn't mostly go to PvP and QOL changes.

Agree and came here to say this, especially the last part. As someone who plays both PvE and PvP, the need for new content in PvE is different than PvP, exactly because going into a PvP environment is different every time, because it's the community that makes the content... both as the resistance and as teammates. A new meta in PvP means try a new build and again have new experiences. A new meta in PvE means power creep and the older content you've repeated ad nauseam and mastered becomes even that much more boring. New dungeons and trials are needed to challenge the long time players. It doesn't mean we don't play the older content or that we don't spend some of our time helping newer players through it but it is not the same. Especially since AwA came out so there's no tracking or satisfaction with earning achievements by re-doing the content on new characters.

SaintJohnHM wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

So no, group PvE has not been consistently catered towards.

PvE content is the only stuff that has been in basically every update since the release of this game. Lots of it also for groups. There are several groups of players that have a reason to complain, PvE players for sure are not part of that group. We got group content this year in form of the Night Market and the dynamic events now. It might not be what you like, but it's still PvE content you need a group for.

For people who like group PVE content and progging HM and trifecta achievements, Night Market was tedious and boring, the only good thing about Night Market is that it went away. The fact they wasted their time on NM rather than the usual four dungeons per year made it so the only thing we had to look forward to this year was the new trial. Now we have nothing.

That is a valid opinion but not the opinion of the entire community. I enjoyed Night Market and saw good turnout & participation for the first few weeks in my guild. For a dungeon-only guild, it’s something we needed to bring people together since previously our largest content was 4 people (and I could excuse Night Market because most bosses were from dungeons). Of course, the 4-man instances needed a HM but at least we had the Timeless Wallow side achievement to chase.

But now we don’t even have Night Market part 2.

I miss the encounter team already.

I think I spent less than 4 hours to complete the Thieves Guild + Sheo quests. And the daily 15 minutes of fetching Freerunner stuff (of which one you can't even complete, lol).

I also used to throw a lot of money at ESO. I have more houses than I need, I have more crown crate stuff than I need. But yeah since ZOS doesn't give me a reason to be excited about ESO anymore that obviously changes now.

Eldovar wrote: »

Grega wrote: »

JustLovely wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

p4l4mu7 wrote: »

Their genius monetization designer assumed selling cosmetics, crafting bag and battle passes alone would be enough to sustain a game the size of ESO. I guess reality finally hit them, you can't keep developing new content without income.

I'm 100% certain that new cosmetics generate way more revenue than a new trial ever could.

No. It's content that sells games, not cosmetics.

That’s how it should be, but it’s not. At least not in live service games. You may disagree, or even believe otherwise, but earnings calls/reports from every live service game gives you that data so it’s not really up for discussion.

People only buy cosmetics in games they play regularly solo or with their friends. If they don’t produce any exciting new content, people don’t log on and don’t buy cosmetics either.

If you look at players numbers of popular games like Marvel Rivals, Overwatch, Call Of Duty, Battlefield, Diablo etc

There is a reason why a new battlepass launches with new heroes, new maps, new weapons, new cosme packs all on the start of the day or of a new season. Because then people return en masse with their friends and a part of them buys stuff. Those games I listed, all their biggest seasons where the seasons where they released the most amount or quality content.

Agreed. Let’s take overwatch as example. They haven’t added any new maps, or toons this year. Yet they still make money.

ESO didn’t add new dungeons or trials this year. Yet they still make money.

People sometimes come back to redo things. New people join. There’s a lot of existing content. There’s just no new content, to satisfy % of players who primarily log on for their 4man or 12man raids.

Those people are not a majority. They also don’t keep the lights on. Because they play for 2-3 weeks on dungeon dlc drops till trifectas are finished, relog for a week when motif is released for said dlc 3 months later, and log and prog the trial until trifectas is done.

Some may put in more hours to sub for some other teams progging same content, but on average not even half.

And before someone smart comes that I’m bashing end game, I’m not. That’s just how it is. I’m part of that group of ppl. But I also farm, do quests and housing. And looking at 2500 ppl in guilds I’m in, very very very small percentage of end gamers are like this. Most are here to consume PVE group content, once consumed, they are offline or play other games till there is an update that includes content release.

Grega wrote: »

Eldovar wrote: »

Grega wrote: »

JustLovely wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

p4l4mu7 wrote: »

Their genius monetization designer assumed selling cosmetics, crafting bag and battle passes alone would be enough to sustain a game the size of ESO. I guess reality finally hit them, you can't keep developing new content without income.

I'm 100% certain that new cosmetics generate way more revenue than a new trial ever could.

No. It's content that sells games, not cosmetics.

That’s how it should be, but it’s not. At least not in live service games. You may disagree, or even believe otherwise, but earnings calls/reports from every live service game gives you that data so it’s not really up for discussion.

People only buy cosmetics in games they play regularly solo or with their friends. If they don’t produce any exciting new content, people don’t log on and don’t buy cosmetics either.

If you look at players numbers of popular games like Marvel Rivals, Overwatch, Call Of Duty, Battlefield, Diablo etc

There is a reason why a new battlepass launches with new heroes, new maps, new weapons, new cosme packs all on the start of the day or of a new season. Because then people return en masse with their friends and a part of them buys stuff. Those games I listed, all their biggest seasons where the seasons where they released the most amount or quality content.

Agreed. Let’s take overwatch as example. They haven’t added any new maps, or toons this year. Yet they still make money.

ESO didn’t add new dungeons or trials this year. Yet they still make money.

People sometimes come back to redo things. New people join. There’s a lot of existing content. There’s just no new content, to satisfy % of players who primarily log on for their 4man or 12man raids.

Those people are not a majority. They also don’t keep the lights on. Because they play for 2-3 weeks on dungeon dlc drops till trifectas are finished, relog for a week when motif is released for said dlc 3 months later, and log and prog the trial until trifectas is done.

Some may put in more hours to sub for some other teams progging same content, but on average not even half.

And before someone smart comes that I’m bashing end game, I’m not. That’s just how it is. I’m part of that group of ppl. But I also farm, do quests and housing. And looking at 2500 ppl in guilds I’m in, very very very small percentage of end gamers are like this. Most are here to consume PVE group content, once consumed, they are offline or play other games till there is an update that includes content release.

What are you talking about?

For Overwatch, 2026 has brought:

* 7 new heroes (so far) and a new one is in the horizon
* A full rebrand back to Overwatch
* A new year-long story with events
* New maps and the Payload Race mode and a new payload map this season
* New hero subroles and passives
* Major UI and gameplay updates

They had their highest playercounts since the game released and they even boasted about it.

Content attracts lots of players. Lots of players attract lots of money.

I am also like you for ESO. Last time I spend money was on Solstice content pass. It had a new zone and the dungeons. Since then I haven’t spenr anything and I usually play when there is new content. But since everything is free going forward they never get any money from me with their new release scheme