Remove CP from all PvP environments

RedMamba · July 28

Remove CP from all of PvP like BG's already and remove it from Cyro / Duels.

Radiate77 · July 28

Remove CP from all PvP environments (BG's, Duels, IC & Cyrodiil) and make it only for PvE

I voted “Remove” but honestly I’d rather they just rework CP into something more interesting altogether.

Gabriel_H · July 28

Keep CP how it is in PvP

IC and Cyro are PvE environments. The former is a PvP enabled zone, and the latter has an underlying PvP focus, but the vast majority of the maps are PvE in nature.

Radiate77 · July 28

Remove CP from all PvP environments (BG's, Duels, IC & Cyrodiil) and make it only for PvE

Gabriel_H wrote: »

IC and Cyro are PvE environments. The former is a PvP enabled zone, and the latter has an underlying PvP focus, but the vast majority of the maps are PvE in nature.

Battle Spirit could add back in any stats as a Monster’s Only buff.

AlienatedGoat · July 28

Remove CP from all PvP environments (BG's, Duels, IC & Cyrodiil) and make it only for PvE

And remove PvP too lol

KahunaKhan · July 28

Remove CP from all PvP environments (BG's, Duels, IC & Cyrodiil) and make it only for PvE

Should have always been No CP

The less calculations the better. Also, shield stacking with cp enabled doubles down on being easy mode for ball groups.

Erickson9610 · July 29

I'm surprised by how evenly split the poll is, even after checking on it hours later. I'm indifferent because generally CP doesn't interact with builds much; it's just an added power boost on top of the item sets and passives we were already getting.

LadyLavina · July 29

Keep CP how it is in PvP

I'd argue that it's detrimental to the game and community within if you gut a system and act like you're throwing it a bone or doing it a favor by letting it keep a fraction of what it used to be.

It's kinda like saying, "Let's have a sword fight! But wait, mine is plastic! So here, you can only use a plastic one too, not the one you spent years learning the ins and outs of. It's got to be competitive, right?"

Then, when people do spend the time building up their account, gear, and armory (no more plastic sword), more often than not they end up resentful that they're being asked to pick the plastic sword back up whenever they fight other players. (i.e. specific game components harshly nerfed when used in a pvp setting)

I've seen that happen over and over across different games. Obviously that's just my experience, but I've seen that pattern play out across enough games over the years that I don't think it's unique to ESO.

Let's build the system up around the areas players actually have issues with rather than continually nerfing everything into the ground whenever something proves frustrating. Lift each other up instead of trying to push down whatever you're competing against under the guise of, "This is wrong, broken, and should never have worked this way."

This isn't a "lol get good" response. It's that if we keep eroding long-established systems as the sole method of attempting to level the playing field, we'll eventually end up with an amalgamation of half-baked setups that don't stand out in any meaningful way or aren't particularly fun to play.

@KahunaKhan, your opinion, while disagreeable to me, is valid. I would love to hear more about why you feel it should have always been No-CP in terms of the day-to-day gameplay rather than simply because it reduces calculations. You make valid points about shield-stacking Champion Points, so perhaps certain slottables could simply be disabled in PvP instead. It sounds a bit like you and @Radiate77 are actually in the same ballpark of thought there.

We all love the game, folks. Healthy discourse means a healthier community.

Nordstern · July 29

Keep CP how it is in PvP

There couldnt be a better poll to prove that this forum isnt representative at all. Almost 50/50 on this? No cp cyro is dead like forever, hardly anyone likes it. Just like vengeance it drastically lowers the relevance of skill and increases the power of bigger numbers in a fight. I would be totally fine with giving anyone max cp in pvp environments to encourage lower level players to play. Might get problems with cheaters then tho.

Luneca · July 29

Keep CP how it is in PvP

If they remove it from PvP, then might as well remove it from the entire game tbh. Though I already go to Gray Host without CP slotted to increase perspiration.

Especially wild when a group of angry enemies break the door down and finally surround me, ready to teach me a lesson about what happens when I just fire siege.

Stamicka · July 29

Remove CP from all PvP environments (BG's, Duels, IC & Cyrodiil) and make it only for PvE

Nordstern wrote: »

There couldnt be a better poll to prove that this forum isnt representative at all. Almost 50/50 on this? No cp cyro is dead like forever, hardly anyone likes it. Just like vengeance it drastically lowers the relevance of skill and increases the power of bigger numbers in a fight. I would be totally fine with giving anyone max cp in pvp environments to encourage lower level players to play. Might get problems with cheaters then tho.

Removing CP doesn’t lower the relevance of skill at all. If anything it increases the relevance of skill in PvP.

In CP, resource management is much easier. No CP is significantly more unforgiving, especially when it comes to core combat skill costs. You really have to be careful with roll spamming and blocking in No CP environments.

When getting stam checked actually becomes a risk, players have to think a bit more about how defensive they play. There’s nothing lower skill about it.

Erickson9610 · July 29

Nordstern wrote: »

There couldnt be a better poll to prove that this forum isnt representative at all. Almost 50/50 on this? No cp cyro is dead like forever, hardly anyone likes it. Just like vengeance it drastically lowers the relevance of skill and increases the power of bigger numbers in a fight. I would be totally fine with giving anyone max cp in pvp environments to encourage lower level players to play. Might get problems with cheaters then tho.

I'd argue there is a bigger reason that Gray Host is popular while Ravenwatch and Blackreach (and Vengeance) are not.

I think it ultimately boils down to the presence of Faction Lock. Gray Host is the only campaign to feature it, and so it is the only acceptable campaign to dedicate your time to if you want to be competitive.

You could also argue that because it's at the top of the list, and because everyone else already plays there, that it's going to be the most populated out of all the campaigns. You would expect people to spread out equally across all of the campaigns if there wasn't already some bias for playing in one campaign, outside of the rewards for playing in your home campaign and climbing the leaderboard for a shot at becoming Emperor.

I don't think the lack of Champion Points necessarily deters people from Ravenwatch so much as the draw of Gray Host makes playing in No-CP Cyro seem like a waste of time.

mr1sho · July 29

Keep CP how it is in PvP

Honestly I think they should keep it and remove the cap on cp and let the chaos burn ❤️‍🔥 cyrodill

SeaGtGruff · July 29

Keep CP how it is in PvP

I think they should keep it as it currently is-- have a CP-enabled campaign as well as a CP-disabled campaign, so players can choose whether to PvP with or without CP.

As far as I know, Battlegrounds and duels are the only forms of PvP which don't provide players with a choice in the matter, so it might be nice if those could be updated to provide the missing option, although I'm not sure how that could be implemented in an easy way.

But I'd hate to see CP removed entirely from all Imperial City and Cyrodiil campaigns, because that would just aggravate a lot of players who make up the game's hardcore PvP community.

Udrath · July 29

Remove CP from all PvP environments (BG's, Duels, IC & Cyrodiil) and make it only for PvE

Personally I think the perks should be less impactful. There are some very strong perks that make fights drag out.

CatalinaWineMixer2 · July 29

Remove CP from all PvP environments (BG's, Duels, IC & Cyrodiil) and make it only for PvE

It would be an issue removing the green tree. People need it for things like Master Angler

BardokRedSnow · July 29

Keep CP how it is in PvP

Gabriel_H wrote: »

IC and Cyro are PvE environments. The former is a PvP enabled zone, and the latter has an underlying PvP focus, but the vast majority of the maps are PvE in nature.

AlienatedGoat wrote: »

And remove PvP too lol

Agreed, but before that we gotta perfect pve and have a vengeance template for dungeons and trials since itll be the only thing to do in eso, gotta make sure everyone is included and can access all the things.

Marto · July 29

Keep CP how it is in PvP

CP was removed from PVP back when it was very unoptimized, accounted for nearly 20% of your damage, and gave you free stats.

The current CP system is pretty well balanced, with tangible risk-reward choices, and valuable customization based on playstyle.

Personally, I'm surprised they haven't enabled CP on all PVP environments. Why bother trying to support two rulesets when they're so similar to each other?

Luneca · July 29

Keep CP how it is in PvP

Marto wrote: »

CP was removed from PVP back when it was very unoptimized, accounted for nearly 20% of your damage, and gave you free stats.

The current CP system is pretty well balanced, with tangible risk-reward choices, and valuable customization based on playstyle.

Personally, I'm surprised they haven't enabled CP on all PVP environments. Why bother trying to support two rulesets when they're so similar to each other?

I wouldn't say it's balanced unless you mean the choice between flexibility in combat (the superior options where PvP is concerned) and raw damage stars.

There are 6 CP stars I always slot except when making a glass or extreme build. Doesn't sound like there's a lot of options and variety IMO. But then again, right now only 2 classes and WW matter in PvP anyway, and they've nerfed DoT damage to the point no one has to fear it.

SwordOfSagas · July 29

Keep CP how it is in PvP

Why? Should it be removed from PvE to?

OsUfi · July 29

No neutral option. Blah. I wouldn't mind either way. I kmow from my time in BGs that the sweats will outsweat everyone else, cp or not.

SwordOfSagas wrote: »

Why? Should it be removed from PvE to?

Honestly wouldn't mind. Not really any need for it, and I hate it being used as a metric for how experienced I should be. In reality I never do trials or dungeons. I have no idea what a mech is at 2400cp. And on the rare times I've set foot in a dungeon, some twit has let me know.

agelonestar · July 29

I suspect they'd be better off simply removing the 5th buff from any gear set - that's usually where all the server-hungry calculations take place.

But I tend to agree about CPs - instead of Vengeance per se, I'd like to see Cyro stripped back to when it was fun (and worked). No CP, no proc sets, no unkillable bugged builds, no mythics, and I'd even say no monster sets.

Players would have their choice of weapons and skills, and any sets up to the 4th buff, and their skill. A man can dream.

Dimorphos · July 29

Keep CP how it is in PvP

What is the point in having CP system, set bonuses, scribing and sub-class etc. in the game at all if you hope to get them removed or nerfed. Having these systems adds to variety and makes the game feel "more". I love it that there are now so many ways to create your own builds because creating builds is fun and if you happen to get a strong build you should not be punished for it.

People are too lazy to learn these games and take the time to learn theory crafting. Everything should be easy and free and single button smashing. That is just lame.

Most of the time when people want things being removed from the game and asking for nerfs are the people who are not even committed to the content at all.

So NO. Do not touch CP system.

Gabriel_H · July 29

Keep CP how it is in PvP

Radiate77 wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

IC and Cyro are PvE environments. The former is a PvP enabled zone, and the latter has an underlying PvP focus, but the vast majority of the maps are PvE in nature.

Battle Spirit could add back in any stats as a Monster’s Only buff.

So when players look at their Inventory or Character screen which stats do they see? You are also then adding in additional checks into server calculations that are already struggling.

And not for nothing, but there is already a non-CP IC, and there was a non-CP Cyrodiil, though the latter seems to have been put to pasture while ZOS are focussing on Vengeance testing.

Nordstern · July 29

Keep CP how it is in PvP

Stamicka wrote: »

Nordstern wrote: »

There couldnt be a better poll to prove that this forum isnt representative at all. Almost 50/50 on this? No cp cyro is dead like forever, hardly anyone likes it. Just like vengeance it drastically lowers the relevance of skill and increases the power of bigger numbers in a fight. I would be totally fine with giving anyone max cp in pvp environments to encourage lower level players to play. Might get problems with cheaters then tho.

Removing CP doesn’t lower the relevance of skill at all. If anything it increases the relevance of skill in PvP.

In CP, resource management is much easier. No CP is significantly more unforgiving, especially when it comes to core combat skill costs. You really have to be careful with roll spamming and blocking in No CP environments.

When getting stam checked actually becomes a risk, players have to think a bit more about how defensive they play. There’s nothing lower skill about it.

Hahaha. Ofc it's lower skill. If you read properly, i'm talking about cyrodiil here. In a 1v1 scenario, you would be right but in cyro, you're not. No cp makes playing outnumbered much harder cause the nerf to tankiness and sustain mainly hits the solo or small scale player and not the zergling. And im not even talking about the really thumbless playstyles like pulse ganking and werewolf. These are way stronger in a no cp environment. I don't think you know what you're talking about tbh.

Dimorphos wrote: »

People are too lazy to learn these games and take the time to learn theory crafting. Everything should be easy and free and single button smashing. That is just lame.

Most of the time when people want things being removed from the game and asking for nerfs are the people who are not even committed to the content at all.

Exactly this! This forum is full of this kind of players.

Taggund · July 29

There needs to be another option. I would miss the green tree. I'd be fine if the red/blue were gone.

IZZEFlameLash · July 29

Keep CP how it is in PvP

There's a reason why people just die in a second in BGs and other no CP pvp contents. It is because the game is balanced around CP enabled environment. Iirc, ZOS said so few years ago.

And no, removal of CP won't make anyone a god of PvP either.

edward_frigidhands · July 29

Keep CP how it is in PvP

Champion Point disabled pvp instances have been dead as disco while Gray Host has 100 plus 2 hour long ques.

People who enter the non Champion Point version of IC use it to play it as a PVE zone.

This poll is useless because the one that really matters was in the game and it was pretty decisive.

This is the few wanting the many to play a game that they don't want to play

Freelancer_ESO · July 29

I don't think it is a good idea to change at this point because the game is at a point where the future of the content is a bit sketchy and thus may struggle to bring in new players to offset the veteran players you'd lose by taking away their edge.

In the long term, personally I think Champion Points should get a rework overall. I've never really felt empowered so much as annoyed when it comes to dealing with them.

SneaK · July 29

I don’t really enjoy no CP, to me it really just slows the game down and increases the sustain gap from reworked specs to non reworked specs.

I would be in favor of some more frequent updates to CP trees and nodes however. It would be cool to see some changes in there to mix things up. There’s a lot they could do with CP to have more impact on build crafting.

Prionyx · July 29

Keep CP how it is in PvP

PvP is in it's worst state EVER and you want it to be even worse?

The Elder Scrolls Online

Remove CP from all PvP environments

Remove CP from all PvP environments 145 votes