vyal wrote: »

If the issue really is stolen credit cards, then require PII (Personally Identifiable Information) validation for every new account.

Two problems. You need a way to actually authenticate that, and it can't be something stored in the card's data track.

This is where things like using a zip code or CVC code to verify a card gets kinda problematic. If those are harvested when the card is compromised, then that info is already out there. By the way, ZoS actually did both of those, CVC and zip.

So, if it's for instance, they need to give you their real DoB... how do you verify that? I mean, you could actually ask the processing agency, which might know, or might shrug at you. Even then, you're adding a lot of overhead to every attempted transaction.

vyal wrote: »

If that's the only thing preventing thousands of stolen credit cards per day (yeah, right) from being used, then flip the switch and require it.

Otherwise, it's just another lame excuse.

Okay, so, here's the thing. I want you, to, right now, tell me my birthday. Now... easy enough, tell me the birthday of everyone in this thread.

And, that's what you're asking them to do. Pick a personally identifying piece of information... that's fine, and then ZoS needs to psychically know that for every card they process.

Now, they can get some information like that from groups that issued the card, on a per transaction basis. But, because cards use very specific forms of verification, this is exactly the data that thieves need to get when they steal the card data, and they know it. Oh, and in case there was some confusion, they can't ask in advance, they need to ask the card issuer, "is this card's associated value X?" Not, "tell me all of the associated values for this card."

And, anything beyond that could easily run afoul of EU privacy laws. Uh, you are remembering this game is being sold in Europe, right?

vyal wrote: »

No, you know what, there's an easier answer.

Pull out and nuke the site from orbit?

vyal wrote: »

Put all accounts flagged as bots into their own phase. It's a single room with no exit.

...okay...

vyal wrote: »

The only texture on the walls is: If you're an actual human in North America (or EU for the EU server), please call this 1-800 number to have your account un-flagged as a bot.

Because, as we all know, the current phone queue isn't already days long.

"Your estimated wait time is 763 hours. If we have not heard from you in the next seven business days, we will assume your issue has been resolved and close the ticket."

vyal wrote: »

All new and existing characters created by accounts flagged as bots are placed into the one-room phase and have no access to any in game system or interface. They can login or logout, that's it. No access to the map, mail, or chat.

Because, seriously, screw all those players that can't afford to sit on hold all day, every day, for a week.

I give the botters about a day before they figure out how to port out of there, leaving no one in it except legitimate players. You know, judging by the level of security the game currently demonstrates.

vyal wrote: »

Then, for every "stolen" (still don't believe it) credit card, provide source IP address information to whatever law enforcement agency is responsible for national cybercrime in the USA. Let them track it down as the criminal activity it is. Don't ban them. Let them stay active and use it as evidence.

Hey, welcome to the 21st century. Sorry, we don't have neural link nodes, or any of that cool Gibson *** you were promised in the '80s. But, you know, it's 2014 now, so you're in the future now. Go tell Target that, "hey guys, it's cool, that breach thing? Yeah, that's not real, you can all relax, it's okay."

Also, and I get where this one might be something you didn't know, but, the FBI's track record of actually passing cases to the DoJ for prosecution has actually been in decline for about eight years or so.

Now, ZoS is, apparently, under investigation by Visa and Mastercard because of the amount of fraudulent transactions that have been initiated in their point of sale systems, so, hey, partial credit.

But, yes, please, leave the bots in the game until some random government bureaucracy catches up to what's going on. I mean, it's not like that'd kill the game.

For reference, I have never been involved in a legal action that took less than a year from start to finish. You want them to leave the bots in the game for two or three years, while they build a case... or maybe chose not to?

I mean, are you actually a freakin' goldseller? Sitting there, practicing your sound boards to get your bots past the exhausted CS reps?

Is it your grand conspiracy plan? So you can bog down customer service even more, so they can't even send the GMs after your poor widdel bots anymore?

All they need to do is make all crafting materials vendor for zero. I seriously doubt the botters have the manpower it would take to sell the materials they gather directly to players.

vyal wrote: »

Glad to hear the bot-only-phase idea would work. I hope they implement it.

If they'd left the delves as the were, without the lockout. And then locked the instance so no one could enter that one, but, players could leave normally. Any players entering that delve would have been sent to a new instance. Then, waited an hour or two, and gone through the list of users in a delve, they could have wiped out a lot of bot accounts. Then they'd just need to have done that four or five times a day, and kept an eye out for legitimate, non-bot players who were grinding the delves.

Obviously, that system wouldn't work anymore, though.

@vyal Lol bot only phase is a myth. It would just drain bandwidth that could be used for us.

felixgamingx1 wrote: »

@vyal Lol bot only phase is a myth. It would just drain bandwidth that could be used for us.

Sounds like a good solution would be to reduce the heartbeat update in those instances to 10s or 20s, and/or reduce player adjacency visibility to zero. (so they appeared to be alone, from their perspective)

It is a viable solution, if done right. They're using far more bandwidth, now, than they would be in such a custom phase.

Bots are pretty much this game's #1 problem, and it's a BIG one.

starkerealm wrote: »

skeletorz_ESO wrote: »

All they need to do is make all crafting materials vendor for zero. I seriously doubt the botters have the manpower it would take to sell the materials they gather directly to players.

Supposedly, they already do that, by using the guild stores. But, that could just be crazy talk, I'm not sure.

I suspect this too. The other day a guy from a guild I'm in wanted to sell over 1K pieces of Pitch. I cannot imagine how a normal player could get such an insane amount.

skeletorz_ESO wrote: »

All they need to do is make all crafting materials vendor for zero. I seriously doubt the botters have the manpower it would take to sell the materials they gather directly to players.

Its always important the f-over the the honest player again.

Just wanted to chime in here. I started a new toon on Friday so back to the starting zones. I expected the gold selling spams and stuff, but I was not prepared for the extreme botting I've seen. People flying, people playing mole-man under the ground harvesting nodes. I thought that was bad, not until I made it to my second zone did it really sink in. As soon as I got to "The Serk" in Deshaan, I saw the most rediculous botting I have ever seen. At least 10 toons, all Templars, all in the same gear, moving as like this mass of f#$@. Just running through this part of the zone, killing everything with their little javelin stab attack. I was having trouble even targeting one of them because they were moving so fast. I got one report in and gave up, I was tired of trying to follow them. I moved on to the public dungeon in that zone and guess what I saw in there. Yup, you guessed it, the mass ball of templars running through, clearing the halls of all the trash mobs. Non stop, I can't get the sound of the javelin attack out of my head. Seriously though, ZOS, come on. I remember the bots in GW2, when it first came out. It was almost kinda of funny. You would be running along and see three naked Rangers hanging out doing a death blossom with arrows at some polar bears or other random mob. Like I said almost comical to see. Didn't really effect my experience, still reported them though. Now in TESO, I can't even enjoy an entire dungeon because the pain train of templars is rolling through killing everything.

You guys need to get a handle on this, really. It's been over a month, it went from Gold Spam on day one, no big deal, you'll have that. But now it's become a bot invasion. It's like your game is a dirty kitchen with food on the floor, and the bots are the roaches moving in and multiplying. I'm not going to pretend I know the ins and outs of engineering a game like this, but seriously it is ruining the experience. Like someone else stated, if you first bought the game, at this point when you start out all you are going to see is bots, bots spam, hacks, no mats in zone. It's kind of sad really. I'm still holding on, really trying to enjoy this game with the hopes that you guys at ZOS will iron this out. I can tell you, and you probably know this, I'm not the only that feels this way. I know my subscription doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things, but I'm really on the fence of whether or not I will continue to pay my money to your company.

Now with that said, I don't see the botting too much in the VR zones on my other toon. At VR6 it was just getting the in game mail once or twice a day trying to sell me gold. That's all good, but man the lower level zones are just rampant with it. I wouldn't be surprised if newer players quit before they even see the vet zones. I really don't want to bash you guys, but maybe instead of pushing Craglorn and Trials and other great stuff, get your security straight. I'm know you can't stomp it out completly, but get it to a point where it isn't so obvious that it detracts from the game. You'll always have gold sellers, always have bots, it's just the way it is. But it's almost like you guys didn't even think about it ahead of time. I mean call Trion, call ArenaNet, hell even call Blizzard, call any company with experience. Ask some advice, their games aren't perfect, but they have a better handle on it than you do.

Finally what sparked me to even get on the forums and read about bots was the fact that they have infested your forums now too. Logged into my gmail, saw I had a message on TESO forums, checked it out, sure enough a message to my forum account from a gold seller. Just can't escape it.

I finally made it to Coldharbour Saturday and started the quest "Tower Of Lies". When I arrived, I noticed a large group of toons running around that must have been bots harvesting the Ogrim that were there. They were going around in sync almost perfectly timed when the next Orgim group would respawn. The Ogrim bodies were littered everywhere and it was pretty sad to see the game ambiance and lore ruined because of it. I just hope the rest of Coldharbour is not like this!

*edit

Dark_Matter wrote: »

Apprently some people are sick of seeing these posts, "they are working on it". See my own thread on this issue all i got was a ranter about he is sick of seeing these threads, but funny how there are so many of them?

I logged on last night to twenty. TWENTY mails from spammers in my inbox. They're "working on it," right. How much further is my patience supposed to extend?

The time frame for under100 buck credit card fraud detect report action revoke charge ban account can be up to 30 days under good conditions this makes them very useful for botters as a source of new accounts. Also I understand that software that generates activation codes is available and workable for the major bottling gold selling operators
If there was an easy fix then zenmax would have done it by now. I remain hopeful that they will get it under control eventually

felixgamingx1 wrote: »

Well according to ZOS they have a solution for bots coming out soon.

Yes, They gave us our own bots. It is called hirelings. Theirs gets a thousand jute a day, Ours gets one.