New Studio Head Again…

o_Primate_o · July 16

Toanis wrote: »

Replacing management when the team underperforms is to be expected. Cleaning house is usually the job of the new manager, though. Culling half of the team at the same time sends a message: They are no longer needed, the project is done.

I've lost two jobs due to RIF (reduction in force). The priority has first been job positions. To a much lessor extent poor performers, as I've seen some leeches keep their jobs and others get the boot

for example, i saw one department fire all it's processors then trained their customer service reps to do processing. Another company I lost my job and they divided my work amongst three subordinates.

tomofhyrule · July 16

ImmortalCX wrote: »

^-

Actually I just checked and apparently prior to the recent layoffs, there were over 300 people, so they are left with around 100, which (apparently) is that size of the studio during their massive Orsinium expansion. They should be able to pull this off. In fact, it begs the question, with an identical size as a decade ago, why wouldn't they be able to produce large yearly expansions?

If they become lean and efficient, the game could continue unscathed.

I keep seeing this: “Oh, they’re the same size as Orsinium and that was amazing! We have nothing to worry about!”

Really? All of the people behind the reasons we liked Orsinium were forced out. The ‘goal’ of these reductions was to remove team leads so every developer is doing their own thing in their own bubble (or, as we know the true goal is, to have Copilot do it for them).

Are we expecting consistency? And if everyone is writing their own code for their own project (or again, having AI vibe code it), are we expecting the spaghetti code problem won’t get way worse?

And the elephant in the room: if the team was way bigger in the years since, why has the content gone so far downhill since? “Too many cooks” doesn’t explain that much difference.

If “everything’ll be great!” was really true, it wouldn’t take “a while” to revamp the roadmap. If “everything’ll be great!” was really true, we wouldn’t have had to delay the U51 PTS. If “everything’ll be great!” was really true, we wouldn’t have to wait for a major patch to get fixes in (note how many Season One known issues are slated to be fixed in U51… in September). If “everything’ll be great!” was really true, we’d not have to beg for the Combat Team to talk to us.

spartaxoxo · July 16

Syldras wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Oddly enough, that would be the exact same question the head of XBox gaming asked.

I'd think they know well enough what their own titles mean, especially in their native language.

I'm wondering how easy or not it will be for the Head of Business Operations to become Studio Head and how much time it would take to adjust to this new role. So basically if there's already experience or if it's something completely different that will take lots of time and afforts to learn.

Well they are keeping on Rich, Susan, and Jo for a few months to train them so I'm guessing that there are things for Josh to learn. I'm not sure if Nick's role has changed and if it's duties are being expanded as well.

spartaxoxo · July 16

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

CptTekashi wrote: »

Can we please get an update on what’s going on as it seems like the studio is crumbling to the ground before our very eyes @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_Kevin

Can we stop with this doomer nonsense?

Why break a 12-year trend?!

For the bad faith arguments out there:

Why break a 11-year trend?!
Why break a 10-year trend?!
Why break a 9-year trend?!
Why break a 8-year trend?!
Why break a 7-year trend?!
Why break a 6-year trend?!
Why break a 5-year trend?!
Why break a 4-year trend?!
Why break a 3-year trend?!
Why break a 2-year trend?!
Why break a 1-year trend?!

I'm sorry but there's a world of difference between "The game is dying because my friend's list/guild left or the steam charts show that they many people stopped playing video games when they were no longer afraid to go outside after COVID," and "The game is dying because they've just laid off so many people that the remaining people openly admit that they don't know what's going on either or what they can do."

At some point the game is dead will be true.

DoofusMax · July 16

AScarlato wrote: »

There are a lot of people that are just skeptical but invested enough in the game to want to see how things play out. Being skeptical over bad news after bad news, with little to no information released to assuage fears or even a new roadmap, just makes some people a bit more realistic in their contemplation of the game's current state and future.

I sort of get that, but it's a sunk-cost problem. The money for the game is spent, the money for the crowns (if any) is spent, the money for the sub (if any) is spent, the playing time is spent, ... and nothing is going to unspend those. I have quite a lot invested in the game from a resource standpoint (also strongly attached to a few of my characters), but all I have going forward is the game in front of me. "Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, but today is a gift. That is why it is called the present." Probably a bit more optimistic than I usually am, but it's close enough for government work.

spartaxoxo · July 16

DoofusMax wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

There are a lot of people that are just skeptical but invested enough in the game to want to see how things play out. Being skeptical over bad news after bad news, with little to no information released to assuage fears or even a new roadmap, just makes some people a bit more realistic in their contemplation of the game's current state and future.

I sort of get that, but it's a sunk-cost problem. The money for the game is spent, the money for the crowns (if any) is spent, the money for the sub (if any) is spent, the playing time is spent, ... and nothing is going to unspend those. I have quite a lot invested in the game from a resource standpoint (also strongly attached to a few of my characters), but all I have going forward is the game in front of me. "Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, but today is a gift. That is why it is called the present." Probably a bit more optimistic than I usually am, but it's close enough for government work.

Yeah. The game is down but it's not out yet. I really hope they can turn the ship around. I'm not optimistic right now but I'm hopeful for the best. No matter what happens, I hope the employees all land on their feet and are able to keep making games if that's what they want to do. I'm truly happy that I got to play this wonderful game. I'll continue to enjoy it for now.

ImmortalCX · July 16

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

ImmortalCX wrote: »

^-

Actually I just checked and apparently prior to the recent layoffs, there were over 300 people, so they are left with around 100, which (apparently) is that size of the studio during their massive Orsinium expansion. They should be able to pull this off. In fact, it begs the question, with an identical size as a decade ago, why wouldn't they be able to produce large yearly expansions?

If they become lean and efficient, the game could continue unscathed.

Where do you get your numbers? All I've been able to find is that they reportedly had 250 workers in 2012. In 2018 they hired ~300 more for project blackbird. 67 laid off last year = 483 before the 2026 layoffs. If these are accurate then there should be ample headcount, but ofc that doesn't account for the experience and expertise that is now missing from the studio.

There was a recent quote where they said the team was now the same size. CGPT summarized their headcount across time and suggested they had over 300, with the recent 200 reductin bringing it to around 100. it could be completely wrong.

What stood out is the quote that they are now the size they were during the large Orsininum expansion, that suggests if they are firing on all cylinders, they should be able to develop large content patches.

ImmortalCX · July 16

tomofhyrule wrote: »

ImmortalCX wrote: »

^-

Actually I just checked and apparently prior to the recent layoffs, there were over 300 people, so they are left with around 100, which (apparently) is that size of the studio during their massive Orsinium expansion. They should be able to pull this off. In fact, it begs the question, with an identical size as a decade ago, why wouldn't they be able to produce large yearly expansions?

If they become lean and efficient, the game could continue unscathed.

I keep seeing this: “Oh, they’re the same size as Orsinium and that was amazing! We have nothing to worry about!”

Really? All of the people behind the reasons we liked Orsinium were forced out. The ‘goal’ of these reductions was to remove team leads so every developer is doing their own thing in their own bubble (or, as we know the true goal is, to have Copilot do it for them).

Are we expecting consistency? And if everyone is writing their own code for their own project (or again, having AI vibe code it), are we expecting the spaghetti code problem won’t get way worse?

And the elephant in the room: if the team was way bigger in the years since, why has the content gone so far downhill since? “Too many cooks” doesn’t explain that much difference.

If “everything’ll be great!” was really true, it wouldn’t take “a while” to revamp the roadmap. If “everything’ll be great!” was really true, we wouldn’t have had to delay the U51 PTS. If “everything’ll be great!” was really true, we wouldn’t have to wait for a major patch to get fixes in (note how many Season One known issues are slated to be fixed in U51… in September). If “everything’ll be great!” was really true, we’d not have to beg for the Combat Team to talk to us.

I suspect it had a lot to do with the unionized QA team and overhead. That kind of environment is not going to be lean and efficient. I don't have any actual insight, but it could be that the layoffs were a deserved reaction to bloat. I don't know.

My only real point is that if the team is roughly the size it was when Orsinium was produced, they should be able to develop large yearly content patches.

Wolfshade · July 16

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Why break a 12-year trend?!

For the bad faith arguments out there:

Why break a 11-year trend?!
Why break a 10-year trend?!
Why break a 9-year trend?!
Why break a 8-year trend?!
Why break a 7-year trend?!
Why break a 6-year trend?!
Why break a 5-year trend?!
Why break a 4-year trend?!
Why break a 3-year trend?!
Why break a 2-year trend?!
Why break a 1-year trend?!

Ouroboros

Sluggy · July 16

ImmortalCX wrote: »

If they become lean and efficient, the game could continue unscathed.

The only time you should ever apply the word "lean" to anything related to Microsoft is if you're doing legacy maintenance on a Win32 app that uses #define WIN32_LEAN_AND_MEAN

merevie · July 16

The Xbox online community streamers named these people as being on the fired list days before the employees found out.

Those people also have a much clearer overall picture of what XBox is doing across the board with their people, tech and IP assets and seeing that larger pattern makes what is happening here much more understandable.

A summary:
-games need to sell consoles (does ESO do that? No. will Elder Scrolls 6 do that? Maybe -the community is old)
-local contract teams look likely to be replaced by foreign workers (problems with coding likely)
-all studios slimmed right down (risk of creating generic when tasks farmed out)
-studios who have not produced new games in a timely manner get their IP given to others within the Xbox group
-long term community managers gone (marketing is easier with a young face)
-long term celebrity leads are gone (power move/more excitement with 'new' faces/rebranding possible)
-management of management people gone (mostly millennials who posted insta of their ice cream breaks)
-Knife wielder there to cut the fat -not gamer -wants new product that makes $$$$$
-Bethesda is not making any of their own decisions due to Todd being Todd (so no point messaging devs)

In terms of further layoffs -XBox said they'd happen. So looking at what is known in the Xbox community above, it's pretty clear where and why. So for those of us wondering, why is X person still here when we lost that other awesome person? Well, they're probably on NDA and out in next round.

freespirit · July 16

I keep seeing the comments that the team is now back to the size it was when Orsinium and even Summerset were released.

To me the big hole in this argument is that team was an organised cohesive group who had likely been with the game for many years.

Since then many new layers of spaghetti code have been added and probably nobody still works at ZoS that has even a 50% chance of understanding that(50% may actually be waay to generous).

I'm worried, to the point that I've been thinking "is there another MMO I could call home?"

That being said I will let the dust settle and not make any knee jerk reactions, I'm just really sad for those that have lost their jobs and even sadder that the gaming industry as a whole is suffering terribly atm!!

@ZoS sending huge, big hugs to everyone still there and those recently departed!!

baratron · July 16

tomofhyrule wrote: »

ImmortalCX wrote: »

^-

Actually I just checked and apparently prior to the recent layoffs, there were over 300 people, so they are left with around 100, which (apparently) is that size of the studio during their massive Orsinium expansion. They should be able to pull this off. In fact, it begs the question, with an identical size as a decade ago, why wouldn't they be able to produce large yearly expansions?

If they become lean and efficient, the game could continue unscathed.

I keep seeing this: “Oh, they’re the same size as Orsinium and that was amazing! We have nothing to worry about!”

Really? All of the people behind the reasons we liked Orsinium were forced out. The ‘goal’ of these reductions was to remove team leads so every developer is doing their own thing in their own bubble (or, as we know the true goal is, to have Copilot do it for them).

Are we expecting consistency? And if everyone is writing their own code for their own project (or again, having AI vibe code it), are we expecting the spaghetti code problem won’t get way worse?

I don't know where people are getting "we have nothing to worry about" from.

The quote from Jason Barnes was simply that Zenimax Online Studio, after layoffs, is approximately the same size as it was when they made Wrothgar and Summerset.

My exact phrasing, as posted on these forums, on UESP's Discord and on UESP's social media, was "while the layoffs are extremely upsetting for everyone involved (of course including players), this is not necessarily the end of new content or the game going into maintenance mode." I even bolded the "not necessarily".

I could not and did not say that the current ZOS team could produce a DLC as complete as Wrothgar, because:
(a) Wrothgar was produced under the compulsory subscription model.
(b) There is so much more code in the game now, therefore so much more scope for bad interactions and bugs.
(c) We don't know the exact makeup of the team that remains.

All we do know that a "reasonable" number of people are left at the studio.

Since then, a whole load of gaming news sites have copied all or parts of the original post, adding their own spin. It's genuinely alarming how little fact checking has been done in spreading my words. None of the sites have contacted me to ask for permission to quote me, and none of them have asked for any credentials or even proof that I was at the ESO Tavern! At last count, four of the sites have also misgendered me - I am and have always been female, but apparently even in 2026 women aren't considered to be serious gamers.

Also, more news has emerged as I've been travelling home from the Tavern (we always drive rather than fly), and now someone's got hold of a full list of job titles of laid-off staff via a Freedom of Information request to the State of Maryland Department of Labor. It's extremely upsetting to see the job titles and think about the people they represent. I already knew that Rich Lambert had been made redundant, but I didn't know about Susan Kath until a few hours ago.

People think I'm not worried about the future of ESO? I'm extremely worried!

But. It's not dead yet.

DoofusMax · July 16

Too soon?

AScarlato · July 17

DoofusMax wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

There are a lot of people that are just skeptical but invested enough in the game to want to see how things play out. Being skeptical over bad news after bad news, with little to no information released to assuage fears or even a new roadmap, just makes some people a bit more realistic in their contemplation of the game's current state and future.

I sort of get that, but it's a sunk-cost problem. The money for the game is spent, the money for the crowns (if any) is spent, the money for the sub (if any) is spent, the playing time is spent, ... and nothing is going to unspend those. I have quite a lot invested in the game from a resource standpoint (also strongly attached to a few of my characters), but all I have going forward is the game in front of me. "Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, but today is a gift. That is why it is called the present." Probably a bit more optimistic than I usually am, but it's close enough for government work.

I understand sunk cost -I spent thousands but if I'm bored I walk away. It's not really about that - I've walked away from games I invested more in like Aion when they absolutely destroyed that game. It's that I feel a bit sad and worried, but like the game so I'd like to see them pull through. I just am not seeing how with what was lost.

DoofusMax · July 17

Probably a bit of a downer, but one of my neighbors passed away a few days ago and a couple of others in the preceding 10 or 12 months. I'd known him/them for decades and the neighborhood is much the lesser without them, but the neighborhood is still here, I'm still here, my spouse is still here, my furbabies are still here, the yard still requires mowing (there is a whole irony of human nature hiding in that fact, btw), and so forth. As they years go by, "personnel changes" are inevitable. Some are voluntary and some are not, but the neighborhood will still be here when I'm gone, too.

ESO is much the same with many thousands of hours invested and at least a thousand or two in terms of dollars invested (I'm afraid to go look at my statements over the past several years and tally it up). It will probably outlive me in some form, too. I am saddened that I will not see Gina's pupper finally become too big for her lap (he was not quite there at the last live stream, but it was a close call) and I will miss Finn and the others, but I have the game in front of me and I'm not burned out on it (yet - I do not discount the possibility that it will happen eventually). The servers will very probably keep going for years, so it's mostly a question about whether new content will keep coming. It probably will. Even Broadsword has managed to keep making new stuff for SWTOR in spite of being a studio of a few dozen for probably close to a decade. Granted, it's pretty short stuff and it's a few years between installments, but the lights are still on and players are still having a good time. The neighborhood remains, but yes, it will probably feel a bit different.

ToddIngram · July 17

Serious question, what difference does it make at this point?

AScarlato · July 17

DoofusMax wrote: »

As they years go by, "personnel changes" are inevitable. Some are voluntary and some are not, but the neighborhood will still be here when I'm gone, too.

I hope so.

On the other hand I hope it doesn't become a situation where you go home after years away to find that the library has closed, the mom and pop shop has been replaced by a Wal-Mart, and the movie theatre shuttered.

Sometimes a neighborhood is still there, but it's not home anymore. Not to be melodramatic, but the specific artistic vision and work of some of those lost I don't see as easily replaced. Wishing for the best.

Thoriorz · July 17

Syldras wrote: »

As a non-native English speaker I'm wondering: What do these different titles mean? I mean: What is a person in those positions doing and how do they differ?

In my country (EU), a “scandal” actually broke out last week when it was discovered that the head of the national railways had been employing several people in fictitious positions (these people had contracts and official titles but didn’t actually do any work—they just collected high salaries). He took a portion of those salaries (I’m not sure if it was 30% or something like that) and was essentially stealing that money from the state. He did this for over a year and embezzled several million this way. And things like this are certainly happening elsewhere in the world as well. I’m not saying this is exactly what you’re asking about; I’m just saying you never know...

Rungar · July 17

i expect the game to close down next year as these layoffs have a serious chilling effect on players will to play but it would be nice to see a complete change in direction, one that players here will not agree with, but may drawn in new and old blood, even with a smaller team. They have nothing to lose really.

priority 1: combat mechanics overhaul: move from fast rotation based to a more reactive playstyle, slower but more weighty abilities, get rid of the double bar or at least provide a single bar alternative setup from the start. More emphasis on crowd control and interesting abilities rather than just dps.

priority 2: overhaul of the dungeon system to a new style of group play. Reformat existing dungeons assets to the new system and transition of all trials to dungeon content.

priority 3: Enhanced overland content with more difficult invasion zones that are modified versions of existing zones but have an invasion theme and a similar structure to the night market.

priority 4: npc guilds for players to join.

they can no longer offer it all, but they can still appeal to elder scrolls fans. Done right, this game can still have a future but it has to abandon some things and change to survive a leaner environment. See my signature for more details if interested.

millions of people own this game. Give them a reason to play it again.

Pixiepumpkin · July 17

DoofusMax wrote: »

Probably a bit of a downer, but one of my neighbors passed away a few days ago and a couple of others in the preceding 10 or 12 months. I'd known him/them for decades and the neighborhood is much the lesser without them, but the neighborhood is still here, I'm still here, my spouse is still here, my furbabies are still here, the yard still requires mowing (there is a whole irony of human nature hiding in that fact, btw), and so forth. As they years go by, "personnel changes" are inevitable. Some are voluntary and some are not, but the neighborhood will still be here when I'm gone, too.

ESO is much the same with many thousands of hours invested and at least a thousand or two in terms of dollars invested (I'm afraid to go look at my statements over the past several years and tally it up). It will probably outlive me in some form, too. I am saddened that I will not see Gina's pupper finally become too big for her lap (he was not quite there at the last live stream, but it was a close call) and I will miss Finn and the others, but I have the game in front of me and I'm not burned out on it (yet - I do not discount the possibility that it will happen eventually). The servers will very probably keep going for years, so it's mostly a question about whether new content will keep coming. It probably will. Even Broadsword has managed to keep making new stuff for SWTOR in spite of being a studio of a few dozen for probably close to a decade. Granted, it's pretty short stuff and it's a few years between installments, but the lights are still on and players are still having a good time. The neighborhood remains, but yes, it will probably feel a bit different.

But you did not factor the government coming into your neigbourhood and firing the street sweepers, and the road crews who repair pot holes. Reducing the amount of plumbers and electricians who can work in that neighbourhood by half. Not allowing new homes to be built, all the while charging more for rent, taxes and infrastructure costs.

Seraphayel · July 17

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

CptTekashi wrote: »

Can we please get an update on what’s going on as it seems like the studio is crumbling to the ground before our very eyes @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_Kevin

Can we stop with this doomer nonsense?

How about we stop labeling everyone who has a realistic take on the situation as a "doomer" or negative.

Zenimax just lost 379 (something) people. Among those tons of leadership, among those Brad Derrick, the composer who has been with the studio I think since 2009. His music is widely acclaimed defnintely not someone "under performing", and countless others.

When a studio takes this kind of a hit, and more layoffs are coming. When the game has offered regurgitated and mashed up "content" for the past two years, its not being "negative" or "dooming" to ask questions like the op did. In fact its quite normal.

I would suggest you take in some of this information, consider what it means to the health of the game and approach the scenario with some caution. Being optimisitc is one thing, being optimistic in the face of absolute uncertainty is probably a death knell.

Do you know how evolution works? Its the cautious, skeptical, and weary that survive. Not the ones running in head first without any understanding of the consequences.

I‘m so tired of you guys pestering the forum and social media with all your negativity.

Just because you think you’re right doesn’t mean you’re right.

If all you have left for this game is negativity, pack your bags and leave, because we don’t need it here.

DoofusMax · July 17

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

But you did not factor the government coming into your neigbourhood and firing the street sweepers, and the road crews who repair pot holes. Reducing the amount of plumbers and electricians who can work in that neighbourhood by half. Not allowing new homes to be built, all the while charging more for rent, taxes and infrastructure costs.

This is true, but I have not yet seen any effects from that. This does not mean that they would not manifest at some point, but they have not manifested yet. Until that happens, I'm not wasting a bunch of energy worrying about it. Which basically means that until the doom-sayers can point to a real and tangible effect on something that matters to me, I'm not buying it and am certainly not joining in it.

For example, I'm not going to lose any sleep or change my playing if the Warden refresh doesn't show up on PTS at the next cycle. It gets here when it gets here (note the "when" rather than the "if" that doom-sayers prefer). If it doesn't get here, then I'll reevaluate at that time.

The absolutely pragmatic conclusion is that I play the game I have on the servers which are in the condition they are in, or I don't. No amount of cheeleading or hand-wringing changes that extremely straightforward condition. Running around yelling that the sky is falling doesn't change anything, and frankly, neither does running around yelling that the sky is not falling. The sky either falls (I'll deal with that if it happens) or it doesn't. Since it hasn't, "doesn't" is the existing condition and I'm dealing with that in the here-and-now. Anything else is "a problem for future Ember," to put it in ESO terms.

Pixiepumpkin · July 17

Seraphayel wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

CptTekashi wrote: »

Can we please get an update on what’s going on as it seems like the studio is crumbling to the ground before our very eyes @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_Kevin

Can we stop with this doomer nonsense?

How about we stop labeling everyone who has a realistic take on the situation as a "doomer" or negative.

Zenimax just lost 379 (something) people. Among those tons of leadership, among those Brad Derrick, the composer who has been with the studio I think since 2009. His music is widely acclaimed defnintely not someone "under performing", and countless others.

When a studio takes this kind of a hit, and more layoffs are coming. When the game has offered regurgitated and mashed up "content" for the past two years, its not being "negative" or "dooming" to ask questions like the op did. In fact its quite normal.

I would suggest you take in some of this information, consider what it means to the health of the game and approach the scenario with some caution. Being optimisitc is one thing, being optimistic in the face of absolute uncertainty is probably a death knell.

Do you know how evolution works? Its the cautious, skeptical, and weary that survive. Not the ones running in head first without any understanding of the consequences.

I‘m so tired of you guys pestering the forum and social media with all your negativity.

Just because you think you’re right doesn’t mean you’re right.

If all you have left for this game is negativity, pack your bags and leave, because we don’t need it here.

Its not negativity, it's explaining to the OP how they left out part of the equation in their scenario. In order to make a more accurate prediction or guesstimation of a future event, all pertinent data is relevant, they left some of that out.

For example. My wife today was bagging popcorn into these cute bags for work. I was bagging, she was tying them. When we got to the last one, I tied mine while she worked on the other. I asked her "did you twist the tops of all the bags before you put on the twist tie on, she said no. I explained we should go back and twist all the tops of the bags to ensure that no moisture/air/bugs get inside the bags.

I was not being negative, I was pointing out an important detail regarding the bagging.

What you see as negativity is reality, you are overly optimistic in your perception.

Pixiepumpkin · July 17

DoofusMax wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

But you did not factor the government coming into your neigbourhood and firing the street sweepers, and the road crews who repair pot holes. Reducing the amount of plumbers and electricians who can work in that neighbourhood by half. Not allowing new homes to be built, all the while charging more for rent, taxes and infrastructure costs.

This is true, but I have not yet seen any effects from that. This does not mean that they would not manifest at some point, but they have not manifested yet. Until that happens, I'm not wasting a bunch of energy worrying about it. Which basically means that until the doom-sayers can point to a real and tangible effect on something that matters to me, I'm not buying it and am certainly not joining in it.

For example, I'm not going to lose any sleep or change my playing if the Warden refresh doesn't show up on PTS at the next cycle. It gets here when it gets here (note the "when" rather than the "if" that doom-sayers prefer). If it doesn't get here, then I'll reevaluate at that time.

The absolutely pragmatic conclusion is that I play the game I have on the servers which are in the condition they are in, or I don't. No amount of cheeleading or hand-wringing changes that extremely straightforward condition. Running around yelling that the sky is falling doesn't change anything, and frankly, neither does running around yelling that the sky is not falling. The sky either falls (I'll deal with that if it happens) or it doesn't. Since it hasn't, "doesn't" is the existing condition and I'm dealing with that in the here-and-now. Anything else is "a problem for future Ember," to put it in ESO terms.

Well, I have lived it. In fact I have lived it and see the negative effects in 5 separate neighbourhoods from 4 states and 1 different country.

The results were always the same even though the people were compltely unrelated.

I have also seen what happens to games and design studios that are no different than ZOS. I lived it, I was part of it. And I have seen this multiple times, again, different people in different areas completly unrelated. Same terrible outcome.

tomofhyrule · July 17

DoofusMax wrote: »

For example, I'm not going to lose any sleep or change my playing if the Warden refresh doesn't show up on PTS at the next cycle. It gets here when it gets here (note the "when" rather than the "if" that doom-sayers prefer). If it doesn't get here, then I'll reevaluate at that time.

Strange choice of metaphor here.

Update 51 should by all reckoning be finished. They were supposed to have that on PTS last week, but they delayed it to “polish it more.” Essentially the only part of U51 that would have been affected by the layoffs was a layer of polish.

If the Warden refresh is not there, that’s a huge issue. That means that the team at full strength wasn’t able to do it, so how could they possibly continue when they got cuts? The Refreshes are already slated for two years (which means two years of zero new content related to combat, e.g. new Classes, new Weapons, new Skill Lines, etc.). If they couldn’t even hold that timeline before the cuts…

How long of a grace period can players afford to give this game before they’re like “no new Classes? Bye!”

YandereGirlfriend · July 17

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

CptTekashi wrote: »

Can we please get an update on what’s going on as it seems like the studio is crumbling to the ground before our very eyes @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_Kevin

Can we stop with this doomer nonsense?

Why break a 12-year trend?!

12 years....2026. What is the year 2026 minus 12 years...ohh that is right the year 2014 when ESO launched as a dismal failure and had to have a complete rewrite for Tamriel One to survive.

Seems that anyone saying the game had serious issues "doom" posting back then was 100% on point.

And yet, here we are, in 2026, and the game yet lives.

AScarlato · July 17

Seraphayel wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

CptTekashi wrote: »

Can we please get an update on what’s going on as it seems like the studio is crumbling to the ground before our very eyes @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_Kevin

Can we stop with this doomer nonsense?

How about we stop labeling everyone who has a realistic take on the situation as a "doomer" or negative.

Zenimax just lost 379 (something) people. Among those tons of leadership, among those Brad Derrick, the composer who has been with the studio I think since 2009. His music is widely acclaimed defnintely not someone "under performing", and countless others.

When a studio takes this kind of a hit, and more layoffs are coming. When the game has offered regurgitated and mashed up "content" for the past two years, its not being "negative" or "dooming" to ask questions like the op did. In fact its quite normal.

I would suggest you take in some of this information, consider what it means to the health of the game and approach the scenario with some caution. Being optimisitc is one thing, being optimistic in the face of absolute uncertainty is probably a death knell.

Do you know how evolution works? Its the cautious, skeptical, and weary that survive. Not the ones running in head first without any understanding of the consequences.

I‘m so tired of you guys pestering the forum and social media with all your negativity.

Just because you think you’re right doesn’t mean you’re right.

If all you have left for this game is negativity, pack your bags and leave, because we don’t need it here.

Posts like this are far more hostile to other community members than that of any concerned "doomsayer" I have seen.

Pixiepumpkin · July 17

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

CptTekashi wrote: »

Can we please get an update on what’s going on as it seems like the studio is crumbling to the ground before our very eyes @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_Kevin

Can we stop with this doomer nonsense?

Why break a 12-year trend?!

12 years....2026. What is the year 2026 minus 12 years...ohh that is right the year 2014 when ESO launched as a dismal failure and had to have a complete rewrite for Tamriel One to survive.

Seems that anyone saying the game had serious issues "doom" posting back then was 100% on point.

And yet, here we are, in 2026, and the game yet lives.

You are isolating a single sentance, out of context and think you have a "gotcha".

Go read the context of the posts leading up to this.

The point was the game HAD TO CHANGE because it had MASSIVELY FAILED, proving my point.

DoofusMax · July 17

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Well, I have lived it. In fact I have lived it and see the negative effects in 5 separate neighbourhoods from 4 states and 1 different country.

The results were always the same even though the people were compltely unrelated.

I have also seen what happens to games and design studios that are no different than ZOS. I lived it, I was part of it. And I have seen this multiple times, again, different people in different areas completly unrelated. Same terrible outcome.

Did hand-wringing and doom-saying change anything? If yes, then continue and hope for a better outcome. If not, then it's time and energy being wasted on an inevitability. I get that people are upset, but does being upset change anything? That's the real question. Thus far, the answer has been "no" aside from shifting timelines. Shifting timelines is a patience problem, not an outcomes problem.