Veteran Rank 13 confirmed - OMG why? :(

anakaki · May 2014

Eris wrote: »

anakaki wrote: »

Eris wrote: »

So basically this is the argument in a nutshell.

You: I want a raid.
Me: Why?
You: I get tired of doing the same quests over and over again.
Me: So you want to do the same raid over and over again.
You: Yes.
Me: Why?
You: Because I want awesome loot.
Me: Craft it.
You: It's not the same.
Me: How so?
You: I didn't get it in a raid.
Me: Which is basically the same quest over and over again.
You: No, because it's end-game.
Me: Not really, the game isn't ending.
You: End game doesn't mean that.
Me: Um, yeah, that would be the exact definition of end game.
You: No, end game is where you do raids.
Me: Wouldn't that be veteran content.
You: No, because that is for quest bunnies.
Me: Isn't a raid just a really long quest.
You: No, it's end game.
Me: Okay, have fun storming the castle... I'm going back to questing.
You: That's so boring, it's always the same thing.
Me: Um, it's more diverse than a raid which is just one long quest.
You: Your just to stupid to get it.
Me: Okay, whatever you say dude...

You don't get it.

Is it that hard to comprehend that some people like different things?
No, questing isn't the same thing as dungeons. And no, your not funny.

That you think I was being funny is in itself amusing.

Speaking of pure game mechanics, how is a raid/dungeon different than any other quest? While hidden behind the title of raid, a raid is nothing more than a weekly.

You could argue that the boss encounters are usually harder and require more strategy, but that is brief and once a solid tactic is developed the raid goes to farm mode and then it is just a weekly.

You could argue that the gear reward is better, but rewards for quests generally reflect the length of time and basic complexity of the quest, so that is also part of the quest mechanic.

You could argue that it requires grouping but Craglorn in general requires grouping, as do many veteran dungeons and some pre-veteran dungeons. Not to mention there is nothing stopping you from grouping the entire game if you keep your characters synced.

So, seriously, how is a raid different mechanically speaking from any other quest. And if it is basically just a long, weekly quest, why rush to get there and get burned out on the same thing when the improvement in level and gear during the 1-50 V1-V10 experience is basically the same thing without being maxed out and going nowhere the whole time.

Your not forced to do

Azzuria wrote: »

anakaki wrote: »

Eris wrote: »

So basically this is the argument in a nutshell.

You: I want a raid.
Me: Why?
You: I get tired of doing the same quests over and over again.
Me: So you want to do the same raid over and over again.
You: Yes.
Me: Why?
You: Because I want awesome loot.
Me: Craft it.
You: It's not the same.
Me: How so?
You: I didn't get it in a raid.
Me: Which is basically the same quest over and over again.
You: No, because it's end-game.
Me: Not really, the game isn't ending.
You: End game doesn't mean that.
Me: Um, yeah, that would be the exact definition of end game.
You: No, end game is where you do raids.
Me: Wouldn't that be veteran content.
You: No, because that is for quest bunnies.
Me: Isn't a raid just a really long quest.
You: No, it's end game.
Me: Okay, have fun storming the castle... I'm going back to questing.
You: That's so boring, it's always the same thing.
Me: Um, it's more diverse than a raid which is just one long quest.
You: Your just to stupid to get it.
Me: Okay, whatever you say dude...

You don't get it.

Is it that hard to comprehend that some people like different things?
No, questing isn't the same thing as dungeons. And no, your not funny.

Yeah, he does get it. Yeah, people like different things and it seems the 'end game raiders' are the ones who don't understand that entire concept. Questing IS different from dungeons and trials and some people prefer questing and crafting.

And yeah, this is hella funny.

And you don't get it either. Go off questing while some of us try to be heard and get variation and other means to level besides your favourite hobby.

Handbone · May 2014

Going back 10 years or so... to vanilla EQ and the first couple of expansions... there were dragon bosses that only spawned once a week, which would drop one copy of an item that nearly every one of the 30-80 players who participated would want. So you came back week after week.... and that was endgame. Long before there was ever a WoW.

Volla · May 2014

wow sickness still lives on. apparently the investors believe they need to raise levels so ppl continue playing. they think its all about levelling. they still don't seem to get it. its the max level thats fun.. not endless questing levelling...

Zabus · May 2014

I still hate the fact that there's a VR12 being implemented. Just hit VR10 this morning after countless dungeon runs because I was fed up with questing. Some of these dungeons were very challenging, but xp given over quests was well worth it. I had finally thought I was done with these stupid quests needed to level, but here comes craglorn..

Eris · May 2014

veneficus wrote: »

monden1980b16_ESO wrote: »

It already saddened me when hearing that VR 12 will be available... and even more if they keep increasing the cap.

I'm currently VR 2, and I've played a lot since release... my goal was to reach VR10 at some point, get some nice equipment and concentrate on AvA (the main reason I play this game).

I just want to be competitive in AvA, even though I have a real life (job, family, other hobbies). If they really keep increasing the VR cap with every larger content update, I fear I will not be able to catch up und finally loose interest.

Maybe they should include campaigns where a max. VR is allowed, so that people like me (either not enough time to grind VR ranks, or simply just not interested in PvE/raid) a chance to play against even VR players.

This is a main reason why constantly increasing the VR ranks is a bad idea. For those who want to be competitive in PvP they don't generally want to feel less capable. While there are some who have reached VR 10 I suspect that number is still a small percentage of the population playing. So those who want to PvP and feel capable will never reach the point where they feel they can have a fair chance (one only needs to reach the tales of VR10 characters dominating PvP to know that veteran ranks are a problem for PvP balance).

Again if games like City of Heroes can regularly introduce new content, story-arcs and missions without raising the level cap then why can't ESO? Or why can't they slow the raising of the level cap down? The most competitive players with unlimited time on their hands will always chew up any content you release so why punish the majority of the players by always raising the bar before they even come close to reaching it?

Even City of Heroes realized that they needed to raise the level cap in some way, which is why they implemented the Incarnate system. While you stayed 50th level, you basically advanced Incarnate levels.

Bromburak · May 2014

Sakiri wrote: »

Getorix wrote: »

LOL the wow kiddies are having strokes over this.

Because wow is the only game where true competitive gaming happens at max level.

Yup.

This requires balanced classes , in WoW they are not over 9 years!

Arreyanne · May 2014

Eris wrote: »

veneficus wrote: »

monden1980b16_ESO wrote: »

It already saddened me when hearing that VR 12 will be available... and even more if they keep increasing the cap.

I'm currently VR 2, and I've played a lot since release... my goal was to reach VR10 at some point, get some nice equipment and concentrate on AvA (the main reason I play this game).

I just want to be competitive in AvA, even though I have a real life (job, family, other hobbies). If they really keep increasing the VR cap with every larger content update, I fear I will not be able to catch up und finally loose interest.

Maybe they should include campaigns where a max. VR is allowed, so that people like me (either not enough time to grind VR ranks, or simply just not interested in PvE/raid) a chance to play against even VR players.

This is a main reason why constantly increasing the VR ranks is a bad idea. For those who want to be competitive in PvP they don't generally want to feel less capable. While there are some who have reached VR 10 I suspect that number is still a small percentage of the population playing. So those who want to PvP and feel capable will never reach the point where they feel they can have a fair chance (one only needs to reach the tales of VR10 characters dominating PvP to know that veteran ranks are a problem for PvP balance).

Again if games like City of Heroes can regularly introduce new content, story-arcs and missions without raising the level cap then why can't ESO? Or why can't they slow the raising of the level cap down? The most competitive players with unlimited time on their hands will always chew up any content you release so why punish the majority of the players by always raising the bar before they even come close to reaching it?

Even City of Heroes realized that they needed to raise the level cap in some way, which is why they implemented the Incarnate system. While you stayed 50th level, you basically advanced Incarnate levels.

And was one of the worst decisions they ever made. Just like AoC and the AA stuff.

Catches_the_Sun · May 2014

Upon learning of the DAOC team was involved in making ESO, my hope was that they would learn from the horizontal progression that worked so well there. I thought that Veteran ranks would achieve this, and I was wrong. It is still vertical progression, it's just a much steeper climb. My playstyle in this type of game is to experience all of the PvE content while leveling, and then head to PvP...in the case of DAOC, this lasted 4 years for me.

Now, for those of us that don't exploit dungeon bosses to VR10, it takes a considerable amount of time to get to level cap. I actually enjoy Veteran content & don't mind that it takes time to achieve level cap. The issue I have is the rate at which they're increasing that cap. When will it end?

Why is this an issue? For my experience, in DAOC, the majority of folks wanted to hit level cap before they start getting into PvP as a daily routine. This creates a problem when you're trying to have regular PvP groups & people are so spread out in their levels. You'll also see, when content comes out that increases the cap, Cyrodiil will be a ghost town for a while as everybody has to jump back to PvE to remain competitive. I'd rather a game (like DAOC) go the whole lifespan without increasing the level cap. For the love of the Hist, let your endgame PvP develop.

Getorix · May 2014

Sakiri wrote: »

Getorix wrote: »

LOL the wow kiddies are having strokes over this.

Because wow is the only game where true competitive gaming happens at max level.

Yup.

Or because wow was the beginning of the end for mmos that had something for people to do on the way to end game. Wow brought us the dumbed down speed leveling to get to end game as fast as you can without learning anything on the way, they accomplished bringing millions of ADD cripples to mmos and ruined the genre in the process.

Arreyanne · May 2014

Getorix wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

Getorix wrote: »

LOL the wow kiddies are having strokes over this.

Because wow is the only game where true competitive gaming happens at max level.

Yup.

Or because wow was the beginning of the end for mmos that had something for people to do on the way to end game. Wow brought us the dumbed down speed leveling to get to end game as fast as you can without learning anything on the way, they accomplished bringing millions of ADD cripples to mmos and ruined the genre in the process.

yup agreed before 2.4.1 which removed most elites from the vanilla game, and of course the entire BC expansion which basically added new dungeons with reskinned NPC's with same mechanics and a zigillion HP's thus having to increase PC damage and the introduction of that stupid PvP stat whatever its called the introduction of the new balancing system (ARENAS)

BC, arenas, and patch 2.4.1 ruined any future MMO

ZOS_GinaBruno · May 2014

Hey there, everyone. When we create videos, there are times when we’ll manually set a character’s level. In this case, we had unintentionally set Paul’s character to Veteran Rank 13. When we release Craglorn, the maximum attainable Veteran Rank will still be VR12. If we decide to raise the Veteran Rank cap in the future, we’ll certainly let everyone know.

DeadlyGhost · May 2014

I personally think they should have stopped with level 50 and allowed players to play the other factions stories only if they wanted to. I enjoy the story and all, but it is frustrating for an altaholic to have to essentially level 3 times the amount of characters that I want to make. Even if I skip dialogue it will still take a considerable amount of time and for a game that obviously has a endgame PvP focus it is actually really difficult to compete in PvP until you are vet 10, which is probably why PvP is utter crap right now in most campaigns. Please Zeni, no more vet levels, rather focus on expanding gear through additional stats, abilities, etc while the gear level remains at vet 12 I guess.

Atreidus · May 2014

Reevster wrote: »

Its a MMO not a single player game....there is no "Endgame"

Yes. I cant understand that guys which are hating any progress.
The best game for them would be an lvl 1 only one.

/edit: i f i read tat "great" ideas here to copy the fail Systen of Neverwinter/Guildwars i am becoming already sick.
Why this guys cant try to ruin an free to play game. Oh wait.. they did already.

Maverick827 · May 2014

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey there, everyone. When we create videos, there are times when we’ll manually set a character’s level. In this case, we had unintentionally set Paul’s character to Veteran Rank 13. When we release Craglorn, the maximum attainable Veteran Rank will still be VR12. If we decide to raise the Veteran Rank cap in the future, we’ll certainly let everyone know.

The issue isn't whether or not VR13+ will be available in Craglorn, I don't think anyone was under that impression.

The issue is that, from a fundamental design perspective, increasing the level cap at a certain frequency undermines the motivation to acquire/craft a full set of legendary equipment, because there would not be a reasonable amount of time for one to do so given the current rarity of legendary crafting materials.

Issues like these, design issues, need developer attention. We should be able to discuss with them our concerns and hear their opinions on these matters, either for reassurance if they agree, or to plead our cases if they don't.

These are complicated issues that need more attention and discussion than a Reddit AMA can offer.

Pixelex · May 2014

The bigger problem I think is that Craglorn is only for groups. I know ESO is a mmo, but the problem is that I can't hear/read the quest texts (and so no story), when I'm in a group, because there is always someone who is clicking like mad through the dialogs and then the next events already start. -_-

At the moment I love solo questing mostly. I can experience the story. But in the dungeons I gave it up to hear/read the quests, so that I don't miss events or get quests bugs. Very sad in my opinion.

bruceb14_ESO5 · May 2014

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

When we release Craglorn, the maximum attainable Veteran Rank will still be VR12. If we decide to raise the Veteran Rank cap in the future, we’ll certainly let everyone know.

Right now hitting VR10 feels like an unending grind. Spending time in Cyrodiil seemed to make the leveling experience even slower. I'm wondering how many people got tired of not being competitive enough with VR10s and decided to level.
Adding even 2 levels seems daunting, do we need the Undaunted song to keep us going? Right now it feels more like trying to climb out of a hole and getting dumped on by a stream of manure trucks. Air, air, give me air and maybe even a little table and umbrella drink (in a poo free area of course).