Warden not mentioned on Update 51 Stream?

tomofhyrule · June 26

Radiate77 wrote: »

Has anyone heard anything about a future stream in July?

I know that normally we’re supposed to have a stream the week before PTS goes live, but I can’t find anything.

They haven't announced it, but the original idea was that the ESO dev streams were supposed to be monthly.

SneaK · June 26

They implied it will be delayed.

I blame resource restrain due to Vengeance.

noblecron · June 26

It does make me wonder/worry that they're changing entire skill lines for something different considering for warden is going to be more season theme and sorc is going to be more Daedric theme. ON the other hand if they split it into a full new class that could be interesting or fun too. Something full on pets for a pet lover and something else involving seasons/elements for warden but I'm reading too much into things

tomofhyrule · June 26

noblecron wrote: »

It does make me wonder/worry that they're changing entire skill lines for something different considering for warden is going to be more season theme and sorc is going to be more Daedric theme. ON the other hand if they split it into a full new class that could be interesting or fun too. Something full on pets for a pet lover and something else involving seasons/elements for warden but I'm reading too much into things

This is what's scaring me now.

I know a lot of people are annoyed at Warden having both the ice and nature themes, but it's not like it's impossible to get them to work together. I myself wrote my Warden character in such a way that both of them make perfect sense (he's a Skaal barbarian, so he's really in tune with the animals and then the plants and frost make a lot of sense there because of his background). Even the people who think that one of the Warden themes don't fit have latched onto one or the other. We have people who make frostmages and then don't think about the plant or animal lines, or some people have made druids or rangers who let the frost part sit.

If ZOS decided to split Warden into "Frostmage" and "Nature mage," which one is the one we get? What about those of us whose Wardens now lost the majority of their identity - will they be allowed a Class Change to go back to normal, or will the answer be "lol just screw Mastery and subclass your identity back, and if you want two lines from the other one then just delete your character and remake them."? And even for the other example you give, my Sorc is all-in on the lightning, so of course that's the part I want to keep there.

I'd expect that, since the three lines have been here for 9 years and the OG trailer very clearly showed the Warden using both Bear and Ice and that we have the icon as a bear paw and that we have two of the three Class sets and all, that it's not likely to split. I know their original concept was "lol seasons," but Warden as is does fit with that: Winter (obviously), Spring for the plants, and then a lot of animals are active in the Summer months.

But the one weird part is just why are they being so [snip] secretive about everything?!?! How much more can we make it clear that this (lack of) communication is what we have been raging about for years?!

coop500 · June 26

The silence is getting to be hilariously bad at this point.

ZOS_JessicaFolsom · June 26

Hey all, we do see and acknowledge the questions and concerns raised in this thread. What @tomofhyrule said here is a good summary of what we meant by "knock-on effect". When one date moves, the rest after it are also affected. We are working through what those shifts look like now, and will share them with you as soon as we're able.

We aren't intentionally keeping them from you - we want to ensure that what we share is accurate, and we're still figuring it out. We also wanted to share the PTS date shift with you as soon as we knew it was moving, even if that meant we wouldn't have all the related answers yet. That's the nature of sharing things early. Warden is still next in the class refresh timeline. That has not changed.

Erickson9610 · June 26

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey all, we do see and acknowledge the questions and concerns raised in this thread. What @tomofhyrule said here is a good summary of what we meant by "knock-on effect". When one date moves, the rest after it are also affected. We are working through what those shifts look like now, and will share them with you as soon as we're able.

We aren't intentionally keeping them from you - we want to ensure that what we share is accurate, and we're still figuring it out. We also wanted to share the PTS date shift with you as soon as we knew it was moving, even if that meant we wouldn't have all the related answers yet. That's the nature of sharing things early. Warden is still next in the class refresh timeline. That has not changed.

So everyone's just freaking out over nothing?

Destai · June 26

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey all, we do see and acknowledge the questions and concerns raised in this thread. What @tomofhyrule said here is a good summary of what we meant by "knock-on effect". When one date moves, the rest after it are also affected. We are working through what those shifts look like now, and will share them with you as soon as we're able.

We aren't intentionally keeping them from you - we want to ensure that what we share is accurate, and we're still figuring it out. We also wanted to share the PTS date shift with you as soon as we knew it was moving, even if that meant we wouldn't have all the related answers yet. That's the nature of sharing things early. Warden is still next in the class refresh timeline. That has not changed.

Thanks, that's a good explanation. It's nice to see Warden mentioned specifically, I for one feel better.

As you guys continue to navigate the world of sharing information early, the more you can frontload conversations with specificity, the better. It did feel a little avoidant, because again, from our perspective, we're not being told the pebble that caused the ripple here. And with something as important as a class rework - like I've played my Warden for 4000 hours - it's going to be incredibly sensitive.

That sensitivity presents challenges for you. Because you're wondering if the information is bad news, and you wanna make sure it's 100% accurate, or if it's just a change of plans. I get where you're coming from.

allochthons · June 26

It would be great to have 1 place, on the website with a bit.ly link or QR code in game, with all the dates for the next 6 months. Appropriately marked for "TBD" things.

With the change from Chapters to Seasons and Updates, and things coming in the middle, a lot of people are confused.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom

AlexanderDeLarge · June 26

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey all, I know we mentioned this in yesterday's stream, but recognize not everyone is able to watch those. To reiterate what we said in the stream, to give us some extra polishing time, we're moving out the U51 PTS start date to July 27 (previously July 6.) This will have some knock-on effects for when you see that content come to the live game and we'll provide an update on those adjustments as soon as we're able. We do remain committed to getting early feedback on each of the class refresh efforts, and appreciate your patience.

The delay is understandable. Not knowing what the hell the Warden is going to be for the past 6 months isn't. I've been playing this class for 9 years. Not once have I ever been under the impression it had anything to do with 'seasons to adapt and preserve balance'.

I don't think the other classes warrant such communication... But this one did because it's such a dramatic departure from what I've been playing for the past 9 years.

AScarlato · June 26

Erickson9610 wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey all, we do see and acknowledge the questions and concerns raised in this thread. What @tomofhyrule said here is a good summary of what we meant by "knock-on effect". When one date moves, the rest after it are also affected. We are working through what those shifts look like now, and will share them with you as soon as we're able.

We aren't intentionally keeping them from you - we want to ensure that what we share is accurate, and we're still figuring it out. We also wanted to share the PTS date shift with you as soon as we knew it was moving, even if that meant we wouldn't have all the related answers yet. That's the nature of sharing things early. Warden is still next in the class refresh timeline. That has not changed.

So everyone's just freaking out over nothing?

Well, the sentence "Warden is still next" earlier or during the steam probably would have curbed a few pages of comments lol.

Soarora · June 26

Destai wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey all, we do see and acknowledge the questions and concerns raised in this thread. What @tomofhyrule said here is a good summary of what we meant by "knock-on effect". When one date moves, the rest after it are also affected. We are working through what those shifts look like now, and will share them with you as soon as we're able.

We aren't intentionally keeping them from you - we want to ensure that what we share is accurate, and we're still figuring it out. We also wanted to share the PTS date shift with you as soon as we knew it was moving, even if that meant we wouldn't have all the related answers yet. That's the nature of sharing things early. Warden is still next in the class refresh timeline. That has not changed.

Thanks, that's a good explanation. It's nice to see Warden mentioned specifically, I for one feel better.

Agreed, I feel better now too. I really am glad that ZOS is being flexible with the timeline like they said they could when launching the seasons model. Too many things have launched half baked.

AlexanderDeLarge wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey all, I know we mentioned this in yesterday's stream, but recognize not everyone is able to watch those. To reiterate what we said in the stream, to give us some extra polishing time, we're moving out the U51 PTS start date to July 27 (previously July 6.) This will have some knock-on effects for when you see that content come to the live game and we'll provide an update on those adjustments as soon as we're able. We do remain committed to getting early feedback on each of the class refresh efforts, and appreciate your patience.

The delay is understandable. Not knowing what the hell the Warden is going to be for the past 6 months isn't. I've been playing this class for 9 years. Not once have I ever been under the impression it had anything to do with 'seasons to adapt and preserve balance'.

I don't think the other classes warrant such communication... But this one did because it's such a dramatic departure from what I've been playing for the past 9 years.

I honestly think that the seasons angle is the best way to describe warden though. People have been saying for a long time that it’s a thematic nightmare— it’s vvardenfell but ice? With plants? And a bear? I don’t suspect it’s “we’re changing warden into a seasonal class” but rather that’s the closest theme to what it currently is. We have ice (winter), mushrooms (fall), flowers (spring), and animals (summer?).

tomofhyrule · June 26

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey all, we do see and acknowledge the questions and concerns raised in this thread. What tomofhyrule said here is a good summary of what we meant by "knock-on effect". When one date moves, the rest after it are also affected. We are working through what those shifts look like now, and will share them with you as soon as we're able.

We aren't intentionally keeping them from you - we want to ensure that what we share is accurate, and we're still figuring it out. We also wanted to share the PTS date shift with you as soon as we knew it was moving, even if that meant we wouldn't have all the related answers yet. That's the nature of sharing things early. Warden is still next in the class refresh timeline. That has not changed.

Thanks Jess.

I think one of the biggest concerns though is that the vague communication is giving some people fear that their existing Wardens may have massive thematic changes. We know the idea is that the skill lines will now be focused by theme and not role, so we are interested to see things like damage skills in the frost or plant lines, or support skills in the animal lines. But if any of those lines were to be excised, that might invalidate our characters - imagine someone who builds a Warden as a druidic ranger based around the animal and plant lines, but then they end up losing those to go all in on frost with the rework.

Is the team at least able to confirm that Warden will still have skill lines based around frost magic, animals, and plants, even if the skills in those lines are having major changes?

ruskiii · June 26

So are wardens getting a new "earth damage" status effect or is that just a rumour 👀

Erickson9610 · June 26

ruskiii wrote: »

So are wardens getting a new "earth damage" status effect or is that just a rumour 👀

Earth Damage is a damage type used by PvE mechanics, as well as by players via a synergy they could've used during the Night Market. There has not been any official word regarding adding a new damage type, as far as I am aware.

Because there's nothing to buff or resist Earth Damage, I find it extremely unlikely that it will become more common. We already have a balance of 4 Martial (Physical, Bleed, Poison, Disease) and 4 Magical (Magic, Shock, Flame, Frost) damage types, so I don't think we need another. Oblivion Damage has special mechanics so I'm not including it in that list. And, anything that "Earth Damage" would describe can be described with "Physical Damage". Plus, Earthen Heart would've been the skill line to use Earth Damage in, but Dragonknight was already reworked.

Stamicka · June 26

Not sure how much I can say, but I encourage everyone to do a google search regarding the 100 days Xbox reset plan and Zenimax. I think there are potential implications for ZOS and its future.

reazea · June 27

SneaK wrote: »

They implied it will be delayed.

I blame resource restrain due to Vengeance.

And this is a very good argument in opposition to vengeance. All that time they spent on vengeance could have been spent on improving Grey Host. You know, like they said they were doing.

reazea · June 27

Stamicka wrote: »

Not sure how much I can say, but I encourage everyone to do a google search regarding the 100 days Xbox reset plan and Zenimax. I think there are potential implications for ZOS and its future.

PC players should never have to suffer due to changes made to game boxes. Never.

ItsNotLiving · June 27

Stamicka wrote: »

Not sure how much I can

reazea wrote: »

Stamicka wrote: »

Not sure how much I can say, but I encourage everyone to do a google search regarding the 100 days Xbox reset plan and Zenimax. I think there are potential implications for ZOS and its future.

PC players should never have to suffer due to changes made to game boxes. Never.

Microsoft bought Zenimax it’s not about the game box.

noblecron · June 27

I feel a little better too but I am curious to what extent they're going to do changes considering they want to do a season theme instead.

virtus753 · June 27

reazea wrote: »

Stamicka wrote: »

Not sure how much I can say, but I encourage everyone to do a google search regarding the 100 days Xbox reset plan and Zenimax. I think there are potential implications for ZOS and its future.

PC players should never have to suffer due to changes made to game boxes. Never.

That ship sailed ages ago, unfortunately. Back when Microsoft encouraged Bethesda to sell horse armor for more than initially planned because they felt it should cost more than what they were charging on Xbox for a wallpaper. And then when Microsoft bought Bethesda, along with the rest of ZeniMax Media (including ZOS). And then again when Microsoft bought ABK. And again when they started to integrate PC and Xbox gaming on both software and hardware levels.

Their entire gaming division as a whole is struggling hard now, and that means corporate expects increased monetization of everything, game box and games alike. Even if they got rid of the game box entirely, they would still have to try to monetize PC gaming as much as possible. Like any corporation that wants to be successful, they rework or cut what they feel isn’t working. The fact MS cancelled several in-development game projects and closed several studios last year alone was not due to a game box. It was due to believing they would not get an acceptable return from those projects and studios. Everything gets scrutinized for that now, including ESO. ZOS was hit with layoffs last year. They lost one of those game projects and their head of studio along with it. They lost their 10th anniversary in-person event for NA. They’ve had to change their overall game model twice in the past two years. More changes are likely to come down the line, not because of a game box (which Nadella is insisting be self-sustaining going forward anyhow) but because of the expectations set for the whole division.

SneaK · June 27

Stamicka wrote: »

Not sure how much I can say, but I encourage everyone to do a google search regarding the 100 days Xbox reset plan and Zenimax. I think there are potential implications for ZOS and its future.

I’m just curious if they see ESO as an Elder Scrolls main game and will treat it as such. Microsoft would really be dropping the ball if they don’t. That said, they are supposedly wanting to invest more into flagship IPs like Elder Scrolls… who knows what’s about to happen.

SneaK · June 27

reazea wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

They implied it will be delayed.

I blame resource restrain due to Vengeance.

And this is a very good argument in opposition to vengeance. All that time they spent on vengeance could have been spent on improving Grey Host. You know, like they said they were doing.

I have no idea who works on what etc etc etc. But I do know how corporate policies and structures work and frankly I can’t imagine it looks good for the team that wholesaled Vengeance. It’s sad to think about honestly, I can’t imagine a company like Microsoft really caring enough to go into the weeds on this topic, and when they just look at numbers alone it’s gonna be a dismal outlook on getting resources for PvP in ESO.

Stamicka · June 27

SneaK wrote: »

Stamicka wrote: »

Not sure how much I can say, but I encourage everyone to do a google search regarding the 100 days Xbox reset plan and Zenimax. I think there are potential implications for ZOS and its future.

I’m just curious if they see ESO as an Elder Scrolls main game and will treat it as such. Microsoft would really be dropping the ball if they don’t. That said, they are supposedly wanting to invest more into flagship IPs like Elder Scrolls… who knows what’s about to happen.

No only Fallout and the next Elder Scrolls main game teams were safe. ZOS was unfortunately on the list of studios who may see cuts and restructuring. I Don't know if that's related to these Warden delays, but I would not be surprised.

SneaK wrote: »

reazea wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

They implied it will be delayed.

I blame resource restrain due to Vengeance.

And this is a very good argument in opposition to vengeance. All that time they spent on vengeance could have been spent on improving Grey Host. You know, like they said they were doing.

I have no idea who works on what etc etc etc. But I do know how corporate policies and structures work and frankly I can’t imagine it looks good for the team that wholesaled Vengeance. It’s sad to think about honestly, I can’t imagine a company like Microsoft really caring enough to go into the weeds on this topic, and when they just look at numbers alone it’s gonna be a dismal outlook on getting resources for PvP in ESO.

I mean cmon dude, get serious. The Xbox platform as a whole is generating less revenue and so many different studios will be seeing cuts. You really think Vengeance has anything to do at all with this? The Warden Class rework involves new visuals and animations along with new balancing for both PvE and PvP. There's a lot to it. It probably requires coordination between several different teams.

You guys are just blaming Vengeance at every turn you can. Get over it. It's in the game and it'll become a true waste if they just scrap it here.

AzuraFan · June 27

SneaK wrote: »

I’m just curious if they see ESO as an Elder Scrolls main game and will treat it as such. Microsoft would really be dropping the ball if they don’t. That said, they are supposedly wanting to invest more into flagship IPs like Elder Scrolls… who knows what’s about to happen.

I've been wondering about that too. Everything I've read seems to indicate that the CEO was referring to the single-player franchises only when talking about focusing on the Elder Scrolls and Fallout.