Vengeance is awesome!

Bo0137 · June 9

Context: I play since 2014; over 3k hours on my main alone. I never did PvP.

I was ever afraid of PvP. All I kept hearing was how broken builds would demolish the fun of us, noobs. So I never did PvP (only exception is PvE quests from the Mayhem and collecting sky shards in Cyrodiil and IC).

Vengeance is my chance of trying PvP. Everybody is on the same level. I will have the same odds as everybody else.

And I'm loving it!

I specially love the build management and how easy everything is to start doing and to understand. (For instance, the potion is endless; You equip a type of weapon and you are good to go).

Plus: Veterancy is awesome. I really like the rewards. And the progression matches Vengeance so nicely!

I would also like to appreciate the team behind these systems (Vengeance and Veterancy). Wow. You put such a great effort into this. And the result is amazing. Things are very polished (
UI, UX, the overall feel...). Awesome work!

dubq77 · June 9

Agreed. I'm really loving it. Less min-maxing to fiddle with and I feel like fights rely more on actual skill, rather than who can gank or proc a set first.

Erickson9610 · June 9

dubq77 wrote: »

Agreed. I'm really loving it. Less min-maxing to fiddle with and I feel like fights rely more on actual skill, rather than who can gank or proc a set first.

Don't worry, Vengeance will get proc sets eventually:

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Vengeance (Cyrodiil)
General [Feedback]: We want to thank everyone who hopped into the Vengeance campaign during the Update 50 PTS cycle. When Vengeance hits the live servers as a permanent campaign option alongside Gray Host, we will be closely monitoring feedback and performance and will adjust as needed. That includes opening additional campaigns if the population calls for it, making design changes if needed, etc. Vengeance is intended to be an evolving experience, and we will adjust as we go, based on your feedback. We do have some additional experimental changes planned for Vengeance later this year, such as turning on item sets to allow for the abilities to function in Vengeance but not the stats. This is all in the name of continuing to fine-tune a fun and rewarding Cyrodiil experience while retaining good server performance and higher population campaign numbers. More on this soon!

Avran_Sylt · June 9

Still don't know why they released it with the same population as Grey Host though. Three bars max.

Dojohoda · June 9

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Still don't know why they released it with the same population as Grey Host though. Three bars max.

Vengeance bars are worth 99 cents each and Grey Host bars are worth 33 cents each. In other words, vengeance pop allows for 3 times more people.

From https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/693682/update-50-live-patch-notes-all-platforms :

In this update, Vengeance Campaign is available full time as a campaign to select for your Cyrodiil battles. As a reminder, this campaign has modified abilities, loadouts, unique perks and a higher population cap (3x the cap of normal Cyrodiil campaigns) to allow for truly large scale battles!

Lucasl402 · June 9

Ya, so awesome it can't even get past one bar population on opening day during prime time. Meanwhile, GH has a queue of over 80 players.

amiiegee · June 9

Lucasl402 wrote: »

Ya, so awesome it can't even get past one bar population on opening day during prime time. Meanwhile, GH has a queue of over 80 players.

The few people on the forums liking vengeance will never accept that but don’t worry they will be in Greyhost soon aswell, as in vengeance nothing happens

YandereGirlfriend · June 9

Lucasl402 wrote: »

Ya, so awesome it can't even get past one bar population on opening day during prime time. Meanwhile, GH has a queue of over 80 players.

DC queue was 150+ on PC-NA tonight.

My raid had to cancel because we saw that and noped-out.

Luneca · June 9

Lucasl402 wrote: »

Ya, so awesome it can't even get past one bar population on opening day during prime time. Meanwhile, GH has a queue of over 80 players.

There's no point to Vengeance when it's still unbalanced and lacks a proper chaos element that can even the battlefield. I've said it before, but it just sounds and plays like an inferior version of Gray Host. And that's the main problem with it, and why people will just go to Gray Host.

None of the problems in PvP are really solved, except build power held by outliers, but then in Vengeance how strong are DK and NB for anyone that knows what they are doing versus the other classes? How strong are more than one Arcanists using beam on breach?

Yeah, it's just the same thing with a different coat of paint as far a balance is concerned. It wasn't and still is not ready to compete with Gray Host.

Gabriel_H · June 9

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Still don't know why they released it with the same population as Grey Host though. Three bars max.

3 bars in Vengeance = 300 players per alliance
3 bars in GH = 100 players per alliance, pop lock is 120 players per alliance

Gabriel_H · June 9

Lucasl402 wrote: »

Ya, so awesome it can't even get past one bar population on opening day during prime time. Meanwhile, GH has a queue of over 80 players.

That:

Is a lower number of players than that:

The reason there was no queue on Vengeance is because it is nearly 3x the player cap.

tomofhyrule · June 9

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Lucasl402 wrote: »

Ya, so awesome it can't even get past one bar population on opening day during prime time. Meanwhile, GH has a queue of over 80 players.

That:

Is a lower number of players than that:

The reason there was no queue on Vengeance is because it is nearly 3x the player cap.

That might be a lower number of players.

One bar on Vengeance could be up to 75 players (since the cap is 900, or 300 per alliance, and there are 4 states assuming all four state icons are equal). One bar in Vengeance could also mean 3 players.

All that graphic shows is that the GH population is 30-60 AD and DC players and 0-30 EP. The Vengeance population is 0-75 for all three alliances. That means it is completely possible for either campaign to have more players.

I get that you're really trying to make people understand that 1 bar Vengeance is way more possible than 1 bar GH. But you seem to be missing that 1 bar Vengeance does not mean that the population is at 75 at present, since that single bar does mean that there could be anywhere from 0 to 75 people in there.

ArctosCethlenn · June 9

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Lucasl402 wrote: »

Ya, so awesome it can't even get past one bar population on opening day during prime time. Meanwhile, GH has a queue of over 80 players.

DC queue was 150+ on PC-NA tonight.

My raid had to cancel because we saw that and noped-out.

Who could ever have predicted that getting rid of every campaign but GH would ruin Grey Host queues? Not ZOS!

Luneca · June 9

ArctosCethlenn wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Lucasl402 wrote: »

Ya, so awesome it can't even get past one bar population on opening day during prime time. Meanwhile, GH has a queue of over 80 players.

DC queue was 150+ on PC-NA tonight.

My raid had to cancel because we saw that and noped-out.

Who could ever have predicted that getting rid of every campaign but GH would ruin Grey Host queues? Not ZOS!

You mean the campaigns that are still mostly dead even during primetime anyway...?

L_Nici · June 9

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Lucasl402 wrote: »

Ya, so awesome it can't even get past one bar population on opening day during prime time. Meanwhile, GH has a queue of over 80 players.

That:

Is a lower number of players than that:

The reason there was no queue on Vengeance is because it is nearly 3x the player cap.

No thats wrong. It might be. Any campaign will always show 1 bar even if 0 players are in it. So for Vengeance to beat the Grey Host prime time population, it would need to have the second bar all the time, otherwise its either equal or lower than Grey Hosts Population. Funfact: Yesterday Vengeance never even got to that second bar on release.

Also I just checked in Vengeance Leaderboard are in TOTAL 199 players. 199 in total...Grey Host in total has 500 which is the maximum of that leaderboard, so probably more.

Ostonoha · June 9

ArctosCethlenn wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Lucasl402 wrote: »

Ya, so awesome it can't even get past one bar population on opening day during prime time. Meanwhile, GH has a queue of over 80 players.

DC queue was 150+ on PC-NA tonight.

My raid had to cancel because we saw that and noped-out.

Who could ever have predicted that getting rid of every campaign but GH would ruin Grey Host queues? Not ZOS!

Yea really. It’s not like they have the data on how many people were playing BR or RW during those hours. As far as they knew those were empty servers whose population being forced to migrate over would not make any difference. Arctos is right guys cut these guys some slack. Nobody could have predicted this.

Ostonoha · June 9

Luneca wrote: »

ArctosCethlenn wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Lucasl402 wrote: »

Ya, so awesome it can't even get past one bar population on opening day during prime time. Meanwhile, GH has a queue of over 80 players.

DC queue was 150+ on PC-NA tonight.

My raid had to cancel because we saw that and noped-out.

Who could ever have predicted that getting rid of every campaign but GH would ruin Grey Host queues? Not ZOS!

You mean the campaigns that are still mostly dead even during primetime anyway...?

Id wager it’s dead because 20-30 percent of the pop is afk heavy attacking in a field waiting for people who are in que.

aetherix8 · June 9

Bo0137 wrote: »

Context: I play since 2014; over 3k hours on my main alone. I never did PvP.

I was ever afraid of PvP. All I kept hearing was how broken builds would demolish the fun of us, noobs. So I never did PvP (only exception is PvE quests from the Mayhem and collecting sky shards in Cyrodiil and IC).

Vengeance is my chance of trying PvP. Everybody is on the same level. I will have the same odds as everybody else.

And I'm loving it!

I specially love the build management and how easy everything is to start doing and to understand. (For instance, the potion is endless; You equip a type of weapon and you are good to go).

Plus: Veterancy is awesome. I really like the rewards. And the progression matches Vengeance so nicely!

I would also like to appreciate the team behind these systems (Vengeance and Veterancy). Wow. You put such a great effort into this. And the result is amazing. Things are very polished (
UI, UX, the overall feel...). Awesome work!

Vengeance is awesome, I fully agree. It's good to finally have it available all the time, and not just for a week every three months or so. But I wouldn't go as far as to say that things are very polished; I personally think it is unfinished and needs more work, improvements, and customization options, e.g., more loadouts and perks.

amiiegee wrote: »

Lucasl402 wrote: »

Ya, so awesome it can't even get past one bar population on opening day during prime time. Meanwhile, GH has a queue of over 80 players.

The few people on the forums liking vengeance will never accept that but don’t worry they will be in Greyhost soon aswell, as in vengeance nothing happens

I'm not sure which platform you play on, but from PC EU perspective your statement is very inaccurate.

"in vengeance nothing happens": there was quite some action yesterday evening on PC EU. DC put forward a modest zerg of 50+ players, and EP also began in force, but was unable to halt DC's progress. AD was pretty absent, perhaps 20 players max., and they were the first to claim the low pop bonus. The blue faction was able to crown the first emperor of Vengeance, despite EP defending bravely, but as DC were gaining ground, I guess GH queues must have finally popped for EP players as there was just less and less resistance on their side, and eventually, they also got the low pop bonus. So DC took care of all EP scrolls, then AD scrolls, but atm, taking AD scrolls is akin to stealing a lollipop from a baby. Let's hope they build some presence over time. Some EP kept fighting, retaking their home keeps and pushing DC. DC were busy painting the map blue well past 1 a.m.; that's when I decided that it's time to go to sleep. I wake up early though, and this morning around 7 a.m. EP were already very much at fight with all the available doors, and about to crown their emperor. At around 10 a.m. they managed the emp and were very busy retaking all scrolls from empty keeps. Which is good as it gives DC something to do later in the day.
Overall, I consider that to be a pretty good start to the campaign, taking into account no double AP, and plenty of other things to do with U50.

"they will be in Greyhost soon aswell": whoever wants to be in GH is already there. I didn't see any GH regular actively participating in Veng; some passed by because of the queue and a bit of curiosity, but did not remain nor participate. It seems to me that most BR players also moved to GH. Players who home Veng are either returning players who don't enjoy GH at all, or new PvPers, like the OP, who also don't want to join GH because it is very unfriendly for learners. I hope that can reassure GH players: your queues will not be smaller, but also not considerably bigger.

BXR_Lonestar · June 9

Lucasl402 wrote: »

Ya, so awesome it can't even get past one bar population on opening day during prime time. Meanwhile, GH has a queue of over 80 players.

People vote with their feet and tell you what they really want. I've been saying this for years. EVERYONE wants to play in an alliance-locked campaign with CP and no other shenanigans restricting sets, skills, abilities, etc. So why not make all campaigns alliance locked to begin with and call it a day?

I do think they'll eventually be forced to bring back another Cyrodil campaign that isn't Vengeance, but if/when they do, I hope it is alliance locked too.

blktauna · June 9

Speak for yourself bro, I don't want to be in alliance locked campaigns and don't care one way or another if I have CP or no. I love the same footing set restrictions. The only thing I don't love is the maddening slowness and range being borked.

Bo0137 · June 9

Hi everyone! Updating the discussion: I just sank a load of hours into Vengeance. Yesterday I barely managed to sleep. Wow! This is so much fun! ESO is now a new game to me (I was doing only PvE for 12 years)

SkaiFaith · June 9

L_Nici wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Lucasl402 wrote: »

Ya, so awesome it can't even get past one bar population on opening day during prime time. Meanwhile, GH has a queue of over 80 players.

That:

Is a lower number of players than that:

The reason there was no queue on Vengeance is because it is nearly 3x the player cap.

No thats wrong. It might be. Any campaign will always show 1 bar even if 0 players are in it. So for Vengeance to beat the Grey Host prime time population, it would need to have the second bar all the time, otherwise its either equal or lower than Grey Hosts Population.

I have no word in this PvP fight but I want to point out that this is false information, at least for what I've seen over the years in Cyro Campaigns on XBOX EU - you definitely CAN have 0 bars if there are no players around; in fact Cyro Campaigns often had 0 bars. And even when at 0 bars I could manage to find 1 enemy player, so it probably have a minimum treshold from where it starts to count as 1 bar.

EDIT: Console PvPers feel free to correct me if I am misremembering.

tomofhyrule · June 9

SkaiFaith wrote: »

L_Nici wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Lucasl402 wrote: »

Ya, so awesome it can't even get past one bar population on opening day during prime time. Meanwhile, GH has a queue of over 80 players.

That:

Is a lower number of players than that:

The reason there was no queue on Vengeance is because it is nearly 3x the player cap.

No thats wrong. It might be. Any campaign will always show 1 bar even if 0 players are in it. So for Vengeance to beat the Grey Host prime time population, it would need to have the second bar all the time, otherwise its either equal or lower than Grey Hosts Population.

I have no word in this PvP fight but I want to point out that this is false information, at least for what I've seen over the years in Cyro Campaigns on XBOX EU - you definitely CAN have 0 bars if there are no players around; in fact Cyro Campaigns often had 0 bars. And even when at 0 bars I could manage to find 1 enemy player, so it probably have a minimum treshold from where it starts to count as 1 bar.

Remember that keyboard/mouse UI and console UI show differently though. They use different icons, so “one bar” to a PC player is “zero bar” for a console player.

PC has icons for one bar, two, three, and then a lock icon. Console has the pie chart with zero, one, two, or three filled wedges.

So to a PC player, there is no such thing as “zero bar.”

johnjetau · June 9

We had some really good fights yesterday. It was good to see large scale battles and not just in the keeps either.

Running around and having all 3 factions fighting at once, without crashing and lagging.

But there needs to be a few quality of life changes to the campaign.

As we get our siege as standard, can the ZOS team add additional items we can buy with our AP. Like with the telvar, maybe some Mat Satchels or motifs/costumes. I'm currently using my AP to buy the various set items from the Faction Gate Vendors and selling them cheap on my guild trader slot for people's sticker books.

Also why do we earn "bound" keep recall stones when again we get the stones already. Either make them sell-able to a merchant or unbound so we can put them up for sale.

But, more importantly as someone pointed out yesterday in zone chat, wait until they implement cross-play. I think that is when we really will see PVP really start to take off again.

CannedChicken · June 9

I DCed while riding north in vengeance campaign and it kicked me out. Why does it kick you out when you logoff or DC? I seriously wasted 10 minutes riding only to have to do it all over again.

robertlabrie · June 9

We're happy you like it so much! Those of us who don't like it are happy to still have a choice. 7pm on a Tuesday evening, GH is poplocked and Veng is 1 bar across the board with a red dominated map, DC and AD currently have lowscore bonus.

Again everyone is happy that the fans of the Veng campaign have something to enjoy - just stop turning off regular Cyrodiil.

Bernz007 · June 10

johnjetau wrote: »

But, more importantly as someone pointed out yesterday in zone chat, wait until they implement cross-play. I think that is when we really will see PVP really start to take off again.

This lackluster launch will be peak Vengeance, as it will continue to decline each new campaign. Once cross-play is implemented, it will be deader than dead.

Lekjih · June 10

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

Lucasl402 wrote: »

Ya, so awesome it can't even get past one bar population on opening day during prime time. Meanwhile, GH has a queue of over 80 players.

People vote with their feet and tell you what they really want. I've been saying this for years. EVERYONE wants to play in an alliance-locked campaign with CP and no other shenanigans restricting sets, skills, abilities, etc. So why not make all campaigns alliance locked to begin with and call it a day?

I don't want alliance locking on every campaign. I play characters in all three alliances. But otherwise yes, who wants to strip away the ESO flavour from ESO pvp.

CatalinaWineMixer2 · June 10

Vengeance is good. I think they will expand upon it moving forward. At least my Guildies are willing to do PvP again. It has to be the Devs making and setting the rules, no other way. Its a good start, and they need to stick to their resolve on it. It isn't a beginner area or just new players either. Its 11 year vets. And I hope they start cracking down on alts. To stop people from continuously switching when they aren't winning.

aetherix8 · June 10

Our campaign is slowly taking off; DC was the first faction to reach 2 bars yesterday early evening, but EP would not have any of it, and they showed up with a considerable zerg of their own around 8 p.m. We had some really good fights, trying to defend our emp (unsuccessfully) and scrolls, but EP was truly determined. AD also joined the battle and recovered their scrolls. There were some massive keep fights (behold 100+ EP arriving at Fort Warden to pick up their scroll), and the performance was stellar; no lag whatsoever, some rubberbanding occasionally. This campaign might yet turn out to be hotly contested; hopefully AD will assemble their zerg soon.

Jeremy · June 10

There is definitely more people doing Vengeance then there was people doing the the No-CP campaigns in Cyrodil. I think I saw more battles and activity in an hour then I saw in a month in the other. So that was an improvement. Will be interesting to see if that is sustained popularity or not.

I still think the damage is a bit too high. But it's definitely an improvement over the absurd damage bursts players are spamming in regular PvP right now.