Basegame Dungeon Refresh ("Extreme" Difficulty)

NikoSquared · May 17

As many Players who have reached endgame will know, the basegame dungeons have been powercrept immensely over the years.

While this on its own is not necessarily a bad thing, it does mean that there's an entire level of difficulty (DLC Vet and DLC Vet HM) that is lost to Players who don't either buy an absolute truckload of DLC, or stay subscribed to ESO+. I've encountered countless Players that are new-ish to the game, smash through the easy basegame dungeons on Normal and Veteran, and stop playing shortly after because they're not willing to pay for the actual good stuff, OR worse they think the entire game is as easy as this and don't see it being worth their time.

Thus, I suggest a new option to enable "Extreme" difficulty in these basegame dungeons. This could be a banner at the start of the dungeon, only available on Veteran difficulty.
- Trash mobs and bosses would have their offense and durability increased to Veteran DLC standards.
- Each boss would have one new mechanic exclusive to "Extreme", which would force team coordination like the Veteran DLC dungeons do
- Hardmode would still be enabled, possibly adding a second new mechanic to the final boss of a dungeon (or in the case of non-traditional hardmode, that Hardmode would be much more difficult to pull off)
- New set of achievements for "Extreme' difficulty, with Trifectas as well.
- Completing a basegame dungeon on "Extreme" would award 3 keys for the pledge, and 4 keys for completing "Extreme" Hardmode

This could be rolled out overtime like the Class Refresh, so the developers wouldn't be spread thin trying to make this work.

What do you guys think of this idea?

tomofhyrule · May 17

I would much rather have new things over "FGI, but with self-nerfs!"

spartaxoxo · May 17

No. They're already doing that weird challenge thing with solo dungeons instead of just letting companions handle the mechs and nerfing the incoming damage (for who knows why as it means they have to go a couple at a time).

We need some room for new stuff too

bmnoble · May 17

So long as it requires a full group vote to activate at the start of the vet dungeon.

As for your reasoning for people not getting the DLC dungeons, its the opposite from what I have experienced, many don't want the difficulty spike that DLC dungeons have and stick to the base game dungeons, not buying the DLC so they can unsubscribe and have them all removed from the random dungeon queue or queue with someone low level to ensure they get a base game dungeon.

Soarora · May 17

I wouldn't implement it as a banner at the start but rather a third difficulty level. That way, everyone knows what they're getting into when they join.

LunaFlora · May 17

No thanks.

new difficulty mode would be fine, but that should be selectable before you go into a dungeon, like Soara said.

Base game dungeons do however need Challenge Banners instead of the Hardmode scrolls that blind you,
plus some dungeons still do not have an actual Hardmode like Wayrest Sewers with the zombies.

Athory · May 17

A few years ago, ESO felt fun because teamwork actually mattered. Tanks had a purpose. Healers had a purpose. Mechanics mattered. Now everything revolves around damage numbers, parses, and optimization. The game’s core identity was sacrificed just to keep DPS climbing patch after patch.

And this isn’t bait, it’s simply true.

What’s the point of having defined roles if players can ignore them in most dungeons? Even many Hard Modes barely require a real tank or healer anymore. Not all content, sure, but easily 80~85% of it.

ZoS keeps talking about "challenge", yet instead of creating healthier balance, they just inflate numbers. Current parses are hitting around 195k DPS. At that point, mechanics stop mattering because bosses die before they can even do anything.

The solution has always been obvious: control the power creep and rebalance dungeon DPS expectations. And honestly, ZoS should probably rethink how combat logs and DPS-sharing addons influence balancing, because the game increasingly feels designed around parse culture instead of actual gameplay. Only then can the original group structure return and content become challenging in the right way again.

But that probably won’t happen, because both the community, and ZoS themselves, seem addicted to numbers now.

ESO doesn’t need "ultra extreme Hard Modes". It needs balance. It needs nerfs. It needs roles to matter again. It needs its original identity back.

Athory · May 17

I can’t edit the topic for some unknown reason, so sorry about that!

And honestly, I’ll say even more: I don’t know about you guys, but I truly don’t find ESO fun anymore. At this point, I’m just waiting for the overland difficulty update so I can finally replay the game in a difficulty level I actually enjoy.

Because the MMO side of ESO feels completely dead to me now. There’s barely any real teamwork left, no meaningful roles, fewer mechanics that matter, it’s all about numbers. No roles. No mechanics. Just bigger numbers.

And honestly? That’s boring.

Luneca · May 17

People actually want more HP sponges and one shotters in this game?

I don't understand the logic here, but for me ain't no way that I would ever support that kind of thing.

What you should be asking for is combat to stop being one dimensional and solely about DPS. That's the core of the problem in the entire game regarding balance and the enjoyability of overall combat.

It's an MMO; we're going to be doing the same thing over and over eventually. But there's literally no real chaos mechanic or otherwise deviation from the script that can make every encounter unique and notable.

That's a developer problem to solve. I know what I would do, but I don't know the entire details of ZOS' server and their engine capabilities.

I do know, I certainly wouldn't go for the one-shot and HP sponge, though.

Majkiy · May 17

I would love some enhanced difficullty for these old dungeons. For trying out builds or using them fully with my group.

They are so obsolete now that they are not even worth running outside of pledges for keys and random dungeons queue.

Athory · May 17

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rujwNtkbSZE

SacredNym · May 17

Athory wrote: »

The solution has always been obvious: control the power creep and rebalance dungeon DPS expectations. And honestly, ZoS should probably rethink how combat logs and DPS-sharing addons influence balancing, because the game increasingly feels designed around parse culture instead of actual gameplay. Only then can the original group structure return and content become challenging in the right way again.

But that probably won’t happen, because both the community, and ZoS themselves, seem addicted to numbers now.

You are absolutely right in this. The game has become so easy that the game no longer matters.
Unfortunately the solution to this would be to remake every PvE combat encounter in the game and I don't think that's feasible either, but the reality is that there's no gameplay value in most of the old dungeons and trials anymore, and the extent to which you can ignore mechanics in them sows expectations that mechanics simply don't exist. I don't know what the best solution is here, but 'nothing' has been only causing problems for years.

Athory · May 17

SacredNym wrote: »

Athory wrote: »

The solution has always been obvious: control the power creep and rebalance dungeon DPS expectations. And honestly, ZoS should probably rethink how combat logs and DPS-sharing addons influence balancing, because the game increasingly feels designed around parse culture instead of actual gameplay. Only then can the original group structure return and content become challenging in the right way again.

But that probably won’t happen, because both the community, and ZoS themselves, seem addicted to numbers now.

You are absolutely right in this. The game has become so easy that the game no longer matters.
Unfortunately the solution to this would be to remake every PvE combat encounter in the game and I don't think that's feasible either, but the reality is that there's no gameplay value in most of the old dungeons and trials anymore, and the extent to which you can ignore mechanics in them sows expectations that mechanics simply don't exist. I don't know what the best solution is here, but 'nothing' has been only causing problems for years.

I honestly don’t know what the best solution would be at this point, but something clearly has to change. Maybe disabling DPS-sharing addons and combat logs entirely would help reduce the obsession with parse numbers and stop balance discussions from revolving around spreadsheets instead of gameplay.

Another option could be heavy DPS nerfs across the board, or even setting DPS caps per dungeon/trial difficulty so older content can’t just be skipped through by raw damage alone. For example, something simple like a maximum effective DPS per player in easier dungeons 10K max?! I’m not saying my numbers are correct, just throwing ideas out there.

And honestly, if players can’t constantly track and compare DPS, maybe the focus would shift back toward mechanics, teamwork, and actually playing the encounters instead of treating everything like a target dummy parse.

Other MMOs manage to create challenging content without the entire community revolving around combat logs to this extent, so clearly there are different ways to approach it. I don’t know the perfect answer either, but doing nothing hasn’t worked. The game keeps getting easier, mechanics matter less and less, and a lot of the fun and tension that made PvE engaging in the first place... just gone!

Renato90085 · May 17

Adding a new, higher difficulty level where boss still die within 10 seconds doesn't appeal to me.

AcadianPaladin · May 17

I don't go near DLC dungeons because I can't solo them. I can, on the other hand, solo about a dozen basic alliance zones on normal and I love them.

frogthroat · May 18

It would require a lot of work for rebalancing everything. I don't think ZOS is going to allocate resources for such a task.

The way it would be implemented would be the same as overland modes - nerf your damage, increase damage taken. So nothing new would be implemented and I don't think that would make the target audience (veteran players) interested in going back to dungeons they have completed a hundred times.

You can already simulate that by going back in builds a few years. Make a pureclass character, no scribing. Wear something like Hunding's+Briarheart or Julianos+Overwhelming. Use only mag or stam skills, don't mix them to account for lack of hybridisation. But who is doing that? No one. Not even those who complain about power creep.

Rungar · May 18

they would be better off reusing some of the assets to make a part 3 of each of the iconic dungeons but with a different dungeon design than thay had before.

The Elder Scrolls Online

Basegame Dungeon Refresh ("Extreme" Difficulty)

Basegame Dungeon Refresh ("Extreme" Difficulty) 50 votes