PLEASE do something about the IA Dragons

thatnewcatsmell · May 11

You're not supposed to 'outmaneuver' the sunspire dragons or their attacks either (unless you want to kill your group members I guess), you are in fact supposed to stand still between the neck and wing (unless you're able to range tank them as a tank), actually kinda like IA.

BagOfBadgers · May 11

SilverBride wrote: »

BagOfBadgers wrote: »

Never had a problem with them. It's getting all to common for people to ask that content that's reasonably difficult and needs skill, gets made easier because of a them issue (I'm considered disabled as I have the use of between 1 and 1 and half hands, depends on the day + other things that keep my life “interesting”).

Sorry if this comes off Elites, but I enjoy a challenge and I don't what to say it, but "if I can do do it so can you".

I find it admirable that you are able to defeat these Dragons and that you enjoy the fights. But to clear things up, I am not asking that they change the mechanics of the fights in any way. I just want a bigger space to fight them in.

I can do it, so why can't you?

wolfie1.0. · May 11

BagOfBadgers wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

BagOfBadgers wrote: »

Never had a problem with them. It's getting all to common for people to ask that content that's reasonably difficult and needs skill, gets made easier because of a them issue (I'm considered disabled as I have the use of between 1 and 1 and half hands, depends on the day + other things that keep my life “interesting”).

Sorry if this comes off Elites, but I enjoy a challenge and I don't what to say it, but "if I can do do it so can you".

I find it admirable that you are able to defeat these Dragons and that you enjoy the fights. But to clear things up, I am not asking that they change the mechanics of the fights in any way. I just want a bigger space to fight them in.

I can do it, so why can't you?

Because we are not you? If we were you then you would not be you and thus you couldn't do anything because you are not us and if you were us then you would not be you and thus you couldn't do it.

SilverBride · May 11

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Since you used the fire dragon as your example in the OP..

During flight phase, you have the same amount of room to stand in at the edge of the arena in both Sunspire and IA. In sunpsire, the arena has the added molten lava pools tossed into the mix, IA you do not. In SS you have Atros to fight in the arena while the dragon is on the ground, in IA you do not.

Character combat placement in both SS and IA are exactly the same mechanic. If you're familiar with SS, follow the exact same mechanic in IA.

I referred to the Dragons in Elsweyr and Sunspire to show that these are always given much larger areas to fight them in. Being cramped onto a small platform that gives the player very little room to maneuver is something I think they need to take a look at. Plus we need to take into account that players can only run the IA solo, with a companion or with one other player. Solo players are at a disadvantage with these fights, but since it's a valid way to play the IA it needs to be considered.

This is my feedback. Others may agree or disagree which is their prerogative, but having a different view does not change or negate mine.

SkaiFaith · May 11

LadyOuttaTime wrote: »

and yes. they are WAY TOO BIG for that teeny platform. really? why are they in there?

I think it's meant to make you burst out loud laughing the first time - "what the, are you kidding me?!"

I bet responsible devs still laugh when they think about it XD and I don't blame them

Sure they can definitely be a pain, but Infinite Archive was another content added with the exact intent to be something really difficult.

Btw, Arc 1+2 I think you can find some strong players willing to help make them a breeze, because of the associated dailies.

SilverBride · May 11

BagOfBadgers wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

BagOfBadgers wrote: »

Never had a problem with them. It's getting all to common for people to ask that content that's reasonably difficult and needs skill, gets made easier because of a them issue (I'm considered disabled as I have the use of between 1 and 1 and half hands, depends on the day + other things that keep my life “interesting”).

Sorry if this comes off Elites, but I enjoy a challenge and I don't what to say it, but "if I can do do it so can you".

I find it admirable that you are able to defeat these Dragons and that you enjoy the fights. But to clear things up, I am not asking that they change the mechanics of the fights in any way. I just want a bigger space to fight them in.

I can do it, so why can't you?

In a perfect world we could all do everything everyone else can. But this is not the case.

SilverBride · May 11

SkaiFaith wrote: »

LadyOuttaTime wrote: »

and yes. they are WAY TOO BIG for that teeny platform. really? why are they in there?

I think it's meant to make you burst out loud laughing the first time - "what the, are you kidding me?!"

I bet responsible devs still laugh when they think about it XD and I don't blame them

Sure they can definitely be a pain, but Infinite Archive was another content added with the exact intent to be something really difficult.

Btw, Arc 1+2 I think you can find some strong players willing to help make them a breeze, because of the associated dailies.

The IA is a challenge that increases the higher we progress through the arcs, but the first couple of arcs are very soloable. All but these Dragons, which I believe shouldn't even show up until later arcs anyway. If they won't provide a larger area to fight them then at least hold them back until their difficulty matches the difficulty of the arc the are presented in.

SkaiFaith · May 11

SilverBride wrote: »

SkaiFaith wrote: »

LadyOuttaTime wrote: »

and yes. they are WAY TOO BIG for that teeny platform. really? why are they in there?

I think it's meant to make you burst out loud laughing the first time - "what the, are you kidding me?!"

I bet responsible devs still laugh when they think about it XD and I don't blame them

Sure they can definitely be a pain, but Infinite Archive was another content added with the exact intent to be something really difficult.

Btw, Arc 1+2 I think you can find some strong players willing to help make them a breeze, because of the associated dailies.

The IA is a challenge that increases the higher we progress through the arcs, but the first couple of arcs are very soloable. All but these Dragons, which I believe shouldn't even show up until later arcs anyway. If they won't provide a larger area to fight them then at least hold them back until their difficulty matches the difficulty of the arc the are presented in.

I get what you mean, but the counterpoint someone would say is that because they are so difficult, it is better for them to show up earlier rather than later on... I think it's been debated since IA launch here on forums (Not saying you don't have a point).

BagOfBadgers · May 11

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

BagOfBadgers wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

BagOfBadgers wrote: »

Never had a problem with them. It's getting all to common for people to ask that content that's reasonably difficult and needs skill, gets made easier because of a them issue (I'm considered disabled as I have the use of between 1 and 1 and half hands, depends on the day + other things that keep my life “interesting”).

Sorry if this comes off Elites, but I enjoy a challenge and I don't what to say it, but "if I can do do it so can you".

I find it admirable that you are able to defeat these Dragons and that you enjoy the fights. But to clear things up, I am not asking that they change the mechanics of the fights in any way. I just want a bigger space to fight them in.

I can do it, so why can't you?

Because we are not you? If we were you then you would not be you and thus you couldn't do anything because you are not us and if you were us then you would not be you and thus you couldn't do it.

I learnt to do the things I do in ESO. I didn't have skills or equipment at the start, If that makes sense.

Adaption and overcoming difficulties has been my life, I have different ways of doing things so I can achieve what is possible for me. I have HM's in many trials, with vSShm as my aim now, I'm not asking for that to made easier and I see this as the same.

Don't get me wrong, words on here don't show the full picture.

BagOfBadgers · May 11

SilverBride wrote: »

BagOfBadgers wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

BagOfBadgers wrote: »

Never had a problem with them. It's getting all to common for people to ask that content that's reasonably difficult and needs skill, gets made easier because of a them issue (I'm considered disabled as I have the use of between 1 and 1 and half hands, depends on the day + other things that keep my life “interesting”).

Sorry if this comes off Elites, but I enjoy a challenge and I don't what to say it, but "if I can do do it so can you".

I find it admirable that you are able to defeat these Dragons and that you enjoy the fights. But to clear things up, I am not asking that they change the mechanics of the fights in any way. I just want a bigger space to fight them in.

I can do it, so why can't you?

In a perfect world we could all do everything everyone else can. But this is not the case.

I have this in another post but I'll repeat it here. "I have HM's in many trials, with vSShm as my aim now, I'm not asking for that to made easier and I see this as the same".

SilverBride · May 11

SkaiFaith wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

The IA is a challenge that increases the higher we progress through the arcs, but the first couple of arcs are very soloable. All but these Dragons, which I believe shouldn't even show up until later arcs anyway. If they won't provide a larger area to fight them then at least hold them back until their difficulty matches the difficulty of the arc the are presented in.

I get what you mean, but the counterpoint someone would say is that because they are so difficult, it is better for them to show up earlier rather than later on... I think it's been debated since IA launch here on forums (Not saying you don't have a point).

But if they show up earlier they are disproportionately difficult compared to the rest of the arc. The bosses should become progressively more challenging as we progress through the arcs, rather than very difficult bosses in the early less challenging arcs.

This is something to think about. Maybe this is the bigger problem rather than just the platform size.

SilverBride · May 11

BagOfBadgers wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

In a perfect world we could all do everything everyone else can. But this is not the case.

I have this in another post but I'll repeat it here. "I have HM's in many trials, with vSShm as my aim now, I'm not asking for that to made easier and I see this as the same".

We expect HM veteran trials to be very challenging. We don't expect Arc 2 of the IA to be even close to that.

I never asked to make the fight easier. I only want a more proportionally sized area to fight them in. Or for them to be moved to later arcs where their challenge is more appropriate for the difficulty of the rest of the arc.

BagOfBadgers · May 11

Me being me.

BagOfBadgers · May 11

I think you're not understanding. HM's are a challange, as they should be and if I can compleat vSShm, good, great. If I can't I'm not going ask for nerf, as that is my skill level cap .

You're asking for fight to be made easier for your skill level, as the area is too small for you, and yes, I have been yeet'ed off the platform befor but learnt the fights so it dosen't happen now.

Random is as random does.

Gabriel_H · May 11

Somebody else's video, but there is plenty of room to stand. The fire is always centered, and it extends just passed the inner circle. With the fire dragon you don't need to maneouver, just stand off the to the side and kill fire atros.

Edit: Molag Kena is by far the worst for knockoffs

LootAllTheStuff · May 11

SilverBride wrote: »

SkaiFaith wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

The IA is a challenge that increases the higher we progress through the arcs, but the first couple of arcs are very soloable. All but these Dragons, which I believe shouldn't even show up until later arcs anyway. If they won't provide a larger area to fight them then at least hold them back until their difficulty matches the difficulty of the arc the are presented in.

I get what you mean, but the counterpoint someone would say is that because they are so difficult, it is better for them to show up earlier rather than later on... I think it's been debated since IA launch here on forums (Not saying you don't have a point).

But if they show up earlier they are disproportionately difficult compared to the rest of the arc. The bosses should become progressively more challenging as we progress through the arcs, rather than very difficult bosses in the early less challenging arcs.

This is a point I can definitely agree with. Although I think the HP pools might be different between IA and where the bosses are encountered in the rest of the game, they definitely vary in degree of difficulty from one to the next.

When I first went into IA I had not yet done any of the Elsweyr content and had not encountered dragons in ESO before. Needless to say, the first time one appeared in Arc 1 I was literal toast (it was the fire dragon, and it was just me and a companion). There are a few others that have ended my runs as well - mostly the ones with persistent and frequent AoEs combined with adds and more complex mechanics.

If ZOS wanted to take a pass at IA assigning the bosses to different pools, and then have those pools switched based on arc, that would likely make the content more accessible to more players, and especially new ones.

SilverBride · May 11

BagOfBadgers wrote: »

I think you're not understanding. HM's are a challange, as they should be and if I can compleat vSShm, good, great. If I can't I'm not going ask for nerf, as that is my skill level cap .

You're asking for fight to be made easier for your skill level, as the area is too small for you, and yes, I have been yeet'ed off the platform befor but learnt the fights so it dosen't happen now.

Random is as random does.

I am NOT asking for the fight to me made easier or to match my skill level which I have stated several times now. The Dragons ARE on too small a platform for their size and they ARE too difficult for the first couple of arcs and I am requesting that ZOS take note of this and make some adjustments.

So let's just agree to disagree and leave it at that.

Varana · May 11

SilverBride wrote: »

I referred to the Dragons in Elsweyr and Sunspire to show that these are always given much larger areas to fight them in.

And if you're doing Sunspire right, you don't need that larger area. You're supposed to use basically only the same area that the IA provides. Exceptions are the mechanics that IA doesn't have - i.e. portals/tombs. You stand next to the dragon's head and tank it there, block the FusRohDah, and you won't get wingslapped ever.

At this point, it might be an idea for you to provide some footage of what you're doing.

valenwood_vegan · May 11

Never had a problem with the dragons other than the first time I ran IA and one knocked me off the platform and I was like oh, I have to block that. One just has to respond to the mechs and pay attention to where one is positioned. Seems fine to me.

spartaxoxo · May 11

When he's on the ground stay in between his elbow and shoulder. Don't move unless it's the one that does the massive half circle AOE attack. Block Fus Roh Dah or breaths. Don't move. It's a trap. He wants to knock you out of the arena with his tail or wing slaps but he can't do those attacks if they won't reach. He will literally never do those attacks if you stay still in the right area.

This applies to almost every dragon in the game. And I'm only saying almost to hedge because I can't actually can't think of any it does not.

SilverBride · May 11

Just for the record, my issue isn't with the IA in general. I have completed the first 4 arcs on other characters, and would have gone further but unless they put in a save it probably won't happen. I just can't sit for that long without getting up and moving around. I have also completed all the achievements associated with the side portals. So I have no lack of skill to do well in the IA.

My only issue is these Dragons.

BergisMacBride · May 11

Dragons and their size relative to the platform was brought up on PTS before it went live. I’m mostly ok with them except the ice dragon which often gets me with its strafe attacks. For all of them I use Isobel to tank and stand to the front left side so I won’t get knocked off. Still happens from time to time when I venture too far to the side.

Erickson9610 · May 11

I like that certain bosses like the dragons make the arena you're fighting in actually relevant. Many of these bosses have knockback mechanics that are mostly useless where they originate from, so it's nice to see the challenge that adding them to this arena creates.

We should see more bosses where we need to be mindful of our surroundings and positioning.

SilverBride · 5:12AM

Erickson9610 wrote: »

We should see more bosses where we need to be mindful of our surroundings and positioning.

Within reason. Having bosses this difficult in the first 2 arcs is overkill. Literally.

Erickson9610 · 6:07AM

SilverBride wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

We should see more bosses where we need to be mindful of our surroundings and positioning.

Within reason. Having bosses this difficult in the first 2 arcs is overkill. Literally.

Agree to disagree, then.

FabresFour · 7:12AM

The funny part for me is that I’m always happy when the fire dragon shows up, because I think it’s one of the easiest bosses in the entire archive lol. But I guess experiences are subjective lol lol lol.

Vulsahdaal · 1:54PM

I also don’t have a problem with dragons, and I almost never use a companion. In fact, I believe the last time this subject came up I posted 2 videos of how I handle dragon fights and one was the fire dragon in arc 4, still no issue.

Just stand where everyone said to stand, I personally find it easier to stand on the left side of the platform (the dragon’s right side) where shoulder meets the neck.

And don’t move from this spot unless you have to. Do not attempt to run around too much or youre sure to be tail or wing slapped into void.

And while on the subject of wing slaps, Ill mention something I haven’t seen brought up yet.

Yolnahkriin does a fire AOE thing when he is on the ground (sorry don’t know the proper name for it). You will have to leave your position or be barbecued. The safest place is next to the wing, just out of the AOE bounds, don’t move further away than this:

You want to stay as close as possible to your original position. The reason is that the very moment that AOE is done, you have to run back to your original position as Yoln will always quickly follow this move with a wing slap.

If you just follow this procedure there shouldnt be a problem.

Honestly, the one I have platform issues with is not dragons but Varzunon. Perhaps you or someone else can tell me how to deal with that one.

I have worked out the spot to hold him that I cant be knocked off the platform with that one move he has, and its also directly opposite side of the platform from where the blue skelly appears.

But that’s also my issue. The blue skelly has to be killed in less than 5 seconds from the other side of the platform. Not too much of an issue for my arcanists, but my other characters not so easy. He takes only 2 or 3 steps from spawn, then flies across the platform to Varzunon like hes wearing an invisible jet pack.

Lots of IA players have some good advice here, I could use some from OP or anyone else here regarding this particular one. Thanks 😊

Malyore · 2:08PM

To top it all off, even if you nuke them down instantly before they can fly up in the air, their healthbar will reach 0% and they will still perform their phase where they fly away and shoot projectiles and the like at you. Only once they've landed are they allowed to die from having been killed...

SilverBride · 2:42PM

Malyore wrote: »

To top it all off, even if you nuke them down instantly before they can fly up in the air, their healthbar will reach 0% and they will still perform their phase where they fly away and shoot projectiles and the like at you. Only once they've landed are they allowed to die from having been killed...

So they can actually kill us while they are technically dead themselves? That is something that absolutely needs to be corrected.

NoticeMeArkay · 2:55PM

Silverbride, you already had a thread on dragons filled with suggestions on how to beat them. Why did you need to open another one?
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/673502/the-dragons-in-the-infinite-archive-are-too-difficult-for-arc-2/p1