Update 44 PVP Battlegrounds Follow-up

CoolAsh · 1:29AM

Danse_Mayhem wrote: »

I’m sure this has been mentioned a bunch of times already,

But PLEASE just remove the 2 team BG’s from the game. Seriously the decision to make it 2 teams rather than 3 is legit the worst thing to happen to eso since release. That game mode is completely dead now and isn’t fun for anyone.

90% of games are just one team dominating the other, waiting at their spawn point, killing them as they drop down. Even outside of deathmatch, this happens as one team grabs the flags, and there is ONE fight over the flags, which quickly decides the strongest team, and then the spawn camping begins.

You’re on the losing team;
Obviously this is a miserable waste of time. You just get farmed 4v1 / 8v1, or try to drop down with team mates which ends in the same way. Many people just leave here, which either leaves you with a lock out timer to BGs, or you’re left with half of a team getting farmed even harder.

You’re on the winning team;
This is slightly better since you get the rewards for winning, but that’s it. The fights are boring because you just have bloodthirsty spawn campers killing the fun. I’ve tried to hold back and let the other team jump down to get some better fights going, and that’s pointless because the rest of the team just spawn camp anyway, removing any chance of an actual fight over an objective. 4v1ing people on a team that’s had half its members rage quit isn’t fun at all.

I for one miss fighting over objectives - Sure deathmatch is great, and is much much better in 3 teams, but the objectives were what made BGs special;

- Holding a chaos ball was much harder when 2 teams shifted their focus to you, and then to each other once dropped.
- Capture the flag required more awareness and movement.
- Domination was also about movement and map awareness.
- Crazy king brought different fights at every flag with the mix of teams.

Teams of 3 means your team couldn’t just ball up and roll around the map as a single unit, because you occasionally split to get objectives, and this was great!

Teams of 2, you can just straight up forget about the above mechanics because they don’t exist. There’s ONE clash at the start, that decides the strongest team in the first 30 seconds, the objective is taken out of necessity, and then the spawn camping begins. It sucks, and I can’t believe this ever went live, let alone still going after so much feedback.

I’ll add, this isn’t a QQ post about losing, I’m writing this after a streak of winning where it’s just BORING to have the rest of my team chomping at the enemy spawn point, and I’m stood there like… Well if I want to use my skills and play the game, I have to join in on a 4v1 to some poor soul who’s team left them for dead, or I can just stand and watch and the result is the same.

For the love of god just bring back 3 teams and delete this 2 team trash. No one likes it, and there was nothing at all wrong with 3 teams, or the maps!
There’s no need for years of testing or gradually integrating etc; just look through the forums and see the feedback!

Rant over!

I agree. No matter what the objective is, Battlegrounds nowadays always devolve into pure deathmatches. Especially right now, the meta is dominated by burst kill builds everywhere. You barely have time to cast any skills, and winning or losing completely depends on how many strong meta builds your team has.
In my opinion, whether it’s 8v8 or 4v4v4, the current mechanics are simply too basic. This leads to many players completely ignoring objectives and just hunting kills. That’s why in 8v8 you often see people camping enemy spawn points.
Take the Relic mechanics, for example. Players should be fighting over and around the relics, not camping spawns. The reason this doesn’t happen is because the maps are too small, the escort distances are too short, and the relic placement is poorly designed.
The spawn camping issue is actually quite easy to fix — either implement multiple varied spawn points, give newly respawned players a short period of invulnerability, or do both.
Even in the recent 4v4v4 Battlegrounds, there were teams that only focused on kills and completely ignored objectives. Honestly, the MMR and leaderboard system desperately needs a full overhaul.
For players who purely enjoy deathmatching, the team should create a dedicated Arena mode. That way, those who only want raw combat can enjoy it there, instead of ignoring objectives in Battlegrounds and farming players who are actually trying to play the mode.
Under proper Battleground mechanics, players who can both complete objectives and fight well should rise to high-tier matches and earn high ranks. Players who can only fight should remain in lower tiers farming newcomers.
Or, could also bring the Revenge mode into Battlegrounds — that would help solve the current damage overflow problem as well.
Alternatively, ZOS could completely separate PvE and PvP skills from the start. That would make combat balancing much easier.
In short, there are plenty of ways to fix the current PvP issues. Battlegrounds have declined to the point where many players are losing interest. If they don’t do a proper full rebuild, the problems will only keep piling up. The developers need to show some real determination and go all-in on this.

p.s.: The issue of players getting stuck inside buildings in Battlegrounds has never been properly addressed. When stuck, you can’t attack anyone, no one can attack you, but you remain in combat. A simple solution would be to add a “Reset” skill that takes 10 seconds to channel and can be interrupted. This would solve the getting-stuck problem while preventing players from abusing it to escape fights.

And just in case anyone wants to say “you must be that guy who’s AFK capturing flags and doing dailies while others fight the whole battleground,” feel free to duel me anytime. I don’t mind fight you with 250+ ping.

GrimsforgeGaming · 3:30PM

Speaking from a coaches perspective in pvp for over 5 years, 3 team battlegrounds is MUCH more welcoming to newer and casual daily questers. Spawn camping is less likely and in the event it does happen, the third team is out capturing objectives and getting everyone out of the BG. Typically it spreads combat out over a larger area, allowing players more opportunities for 1on1s or small group engagements, meaning less overall pressure. This is largely due to the lack of target discipline, meaning if 2 players are fighting me and not making much progress but someone from the third team runs by with lower health than me, both players peel off me and try and secure the kill on that player. Beginner to intermediate pvpers are very kill secure hungry, making lowest health people a magnet. Lastly, skilled pvpers have more fun in 3 team BGs also because it allows them to run off and fight outnumbered at resources if they choose, leading to interesting matchups where they are not always facing the entire enemy team at once.

I've leveled hundreds of characters in pvp, bouncing from IC to BGS. I used to do most of my build testing in BGs. Two team BGs are not enjoyable because of the likelihood of spawn camping, for either side. I get tired of my team refusing to jump down while being spawn camped, leaving me to 1v4 a team that has already show it has all the broken working for them. Its also tiring watching your team spawn camp the other. Neither is productive, enjoyable or proves anything.

If anything, 2 team BGs should be a yearly event with a reward attached, and the rest of the year let 3 teams punch and kick each other. Everyone will be MUCH more happy at the end of the day.