Dracane wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

acanca wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

acanca wrote: »

Static Reverberation

This passive was a huge problem for pvp week 1. It was in a fine state after getting adjusted to 0.5 seconds. Its now back to being too powerful with 0.3 seconds cool down and being buffed to base 5% proc rate.

Part of the problem comes from sorc being too good at being able to proc it. 5% proc base doesnt sound like much but consider that a regular status effect build can deal up to 10 instances of seperate damage per second. For example

1-Vateshran destro proc
2-Burning status effect from vateshran
3-Light attack
4-Concussion from thread of war
5-Crushing shock (frost)
6-Crushing shock (fire)
7-Crushing shock (shock)
8-Chill from crushing shock
9-Burning from crushing shock
10- Concussion from crushing shock
11-Hurricane

10+ instances of seperate damage in a single second with a 5% base proc chance at full hp, skyrocketing to a certainty at lower health thresholds. This isnt just limited to this specific scenario either, bound armamant is 4 instance of seperate damage by itself and is by itself a burst damage and the burst damage having near certainty to proc additional damage turns it from a burst to an easy execute. In fact it turns basically everything in sorcs arsenal to an execute extremely easily.

Malevolent Promise was excluded from pvp for being too war crimey, well, this passive is the actual war crime. Please consider adding a once per second clause to it with battle spirit active. Proccing an extra instance of damage every second easily makes it one of the best pure class passives in the game, simply makes it less toxic by preventing it from being oppressive in pvp.

TBH, this is more of a condemnation of how status effects and ticky-tack micro ticks of damage have gotten out of control in recent updates than it says anything about Sorc itself. The only actual Sorc skill even in here is Hurricane.

Would much prefer that the Vate Crutch Staff, Ele Sus, and Force Pulse get nerfed before anything else happens. Why do we have things like Rapid Strikes having nerfed status effect chance per tick while Force Pulse skates with the full Single Target Direct Damage multiplier? Seems like nerfing that down to Single Target DOT levels would be a nice place to start balancing. Then we can remove the free cast status of Ele Sus and perhaps delete the auto status effect proc as well.

I think maybe just nerfing ele sus to cost 1-2k mag would be a fine nerf. I wouldnt wanna see the 7.5 seconds status procs removed because its such a unique thing but yes its a really strong skill, maybe adjusting the proc rate to 8-10? Dunno.

I am and honestly have always been a fan of the status effect playstyle and i'll be honest what i described has also been possible a few years back, its just that the buff to status effects uhhh was it last year, in combination with signet made the playstyle a lot more viable, but static reverbation might be too synergistic with the playstyle and sorc in general. I mean, 4 hits on BA itself, 5 with la and did i mention each hit of BA can proc sundered individually and has higher than normal sundered proc rate not mentioned on the skill itself?, yeah thats up to 9 individual damage instances with nothing but a light attack and a single skill

When it comes to Static Reverberation, the build matters I think. The cost of running Static Reverberation can't be neglected. Because what do you choose? Conservation and Static? That means you lose a lot of base damage from Font of Power that makes all your other stuff hit for less, and if you want to run Font and Static Reverb together for full offense, then you have sustain issues unless you build around it, thus once again losing damage elsewhere.

I'd rather Static Reverberation did not exist, because I see it being broken in the hands of some builds, or useless on other, more burst oriented ones.

To be fair that's true for most classes with 2 offensive masteries.

Then that only accentuates my point. In the case of Sorcerer it rings doubly bitterly because Conservation of Energy is not only the sustain, but also the convenience of exporting the effect of the awful Dark Magic line to any other skill. The sustain is one thing, and I could do without it. The convenience though is difficult to ignore.

1. Conservation means I don't need a sustain set or food, so more health/damage, while healing every cast and getting actual 100% uptime on the 10% max resource buff. This basically brings back Hardened Ward upfront heal meta, except now you get it on Streak, Bound Armaments, Curse, list goes on. Very diverse Mastery you'd be crazy not to run for how much it offers.
2. Font is just a massive powerspike, 30k resources is easy to hit for 20% w/s damage, massively improving heals/proc sets/damage, and only gets better if you're going the Max Mag stacking route.
3. Defense is a constant 15% shield (PVP), and 6% w/s damage for you and your group. You always have a buffer to your health of 4,500 (assuming 30k HP) that constantly refreshes like a mini parry and might go higher via Minor/Major Vitality or CP. This thing is a cross between the offense and defense of Conservation and Font.

acanca wrote: »

NxJoeyD wrote: »

acanca wrote: »

NxJoeyD wrote: »

acanca wrote: »

Static Reverberation

This passive was a huge problem for pvp week 1. It was in a fine state after getting adjusted to 0.5 seconds. Its now back to being too powerful with 0.3 seconds cool down and being buffed to base 5% proc rate.

Part of the problem comes from sorc being too good at being able to proc it. 5% proc base doesnt sound like much but consider that a regular status effect build can deal up to 10 instances of seperate damage per second. For example

1-Vateshran destro proc
2-Burning status effect from vateshran
3-Light attack
4-Concussion from thread of war
5-Crushing shock (frost)
6-Crushing shock (fire)
7-Crushing shock (shock)
8-Chill from crushing shock
9-Burning from crushing shock
10- Concussion from crushing shock
11-Hurricane

10+ instances of seperate damage in a single second with a 5% base proc chance at full hp, skyrocketing to a certainty at lower health thresholds. This isnt just limited to this specific scenario either, bound armamant is 4 instance of seperate damage by itself and is by itself a burst damage and the burst damage having near certainty to proc additional damage turns it from a burst to an easy execute. In fact it turns basically everything in sorcs arsenal to an execute extremely easily.

Malevolent Promise was excluded from pvp for being too war crimey, well, this passive is the actual war crime. Please consider adding a once per second clause to it with battle spirit active. Proccing an extra instance of damage every second easily makes it one of the best pure class passives in the game, simply makes it less toxic by preventing it from being oppressive in pvp.

I have to disagree here.

You’re right about being able to stack stand effects but re-read your own post. Out of the 10 sources of status application only one comes from Sorc … just one.

Nothing else on that list is Sorc Specific which means that being a Sorc doesn’t make those skills any more effective. It’s not as though Sorcs can synergize those status effects better than any other class because any and every other class can slot 9 out of those 10 abilities, it’s just that Sorcs have the passive.

To be honest the main status I see Sorcs using here is Overcharge rather than any of the elementals and that’s really leaning a bit on LA & scribing, also outside of the class skill set.

Running a status effect build can hit hard in PvP but it leaves the build open to quite a lot because in order to maximize it requires specific supporting gear and attention to their mitigation. A status-effect Sorc vs a subclassed crit meta build, for example, is going to have a run for their money because they’re going to have to keep up shields & heal in a rotation versus just spamming LA + skill weaves.

Sorcs are not in a good place. I don’t know who thinks that but this observation really is evidence of that if Sorcs are leaning on status effect output rather than their own class skills.

These passives need to hit hard and the buff makes sense, it provides for a viable means to be competitive in the scope of subclasses builds until the Sorc refresh, which is the whole point. Static at 0.3 & 5% is where it needs to be.

What does the source of the skill have to do with anything? Are you guys just trying to be funny?

Because your argument is that Sorcs are somehow better able to make use of applying status effects.

That, factually, isn’t true because 90% of the sources of applying those status effects are available to every player, they’re not Sorc specific.

This means that, no, Sorcs do not have some extra benefit when it comes to applying status effects, anyone can use Crushing Shock, anyone can run Vateshran, anyone can light attack with a Destro staff, etc.

If Sorcs had clad specific skills that were better able to apply status effects then, yes, you’d be right; Sorcs would have an easier time than other classes but that isn’t the case.

I don’t think it’s right to ask for a passive to be nerfed simply because it synergizes with world skills; especially when the class skills for the class in question are so poor.

Using status effects as a main source of damage in PvP is both interesting and risky; and really only works if the player is running the Signet mythic, which, anyone else can slot too. This leaves a build like that open to quite a lot in PvP despite having some descent damage potential but is far from OP.

My argument is that sorc has an easy time proccing Static Reverbation passive. I'm sorry to say that literally everything you are talking about is irrelevant to the topic...

I'll put it in simple terms to be better understood. We dont consider Wild Adaptation weak because warden can maintain at most chilled and maybe hemorrhaging with its base class skills. We consider it strong because with elemental susceptibility, blood for blood and various other sets and skills warden is able to reach and maintain a respectable number of status effects.

Obviously we dont treat class masteries in a vacuum with only the class skills. That would be, absurd, ill put a stop to this nonsense that non class skills has to be disregarded while considering class masteries. I will also ask you to reconsider your bias on sorc, it seems to be clouding your judgment.

acanca wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

acanca wrote: »

Static Reverberation

This passive was a huge problem for pvp week 1. It was in a fine state after getting adjusted to 0.5 seconds. Its now back to being too powerful with 0.3 seconds cool down and being buffed to base 5% proc rate.

Part of the problem comes from sorc being too good at being able to proc it. 5% proc base doesnt sound like much but consider that a regular status effect build can deal up to 10 instances of seperate damage per second. For example

1-Vateshran destro proc
2-Burning status effect from vateshran
3-Light attack
4-Concussion from thread of war
5-Crushing shock (frost)
6-Crushing shock (fire)
7-Crushing shock (shock)
8-Chill from crushing shock
9-Burning from crushing shock
10- Concussion from crushing shock
11-Hurricane

10+ instances of seperate damage in a single second with a 5% base proc chance at full hp, skyrocketing to a certainty at lower health thresholds. This isnt just limited to this specific scenario either, bound armamant is 4 instance of seperate damage by itself and is by itself a burst damage and the burst damage having near certainty to proc additional damage turns it from a burst to an easy execute. In fact it turns basically everything in sorcs arsenal to an execute extremely easily.

Malevolent Promise was excluded from pvp for being too war crimey, well, this passive is the actual war crime. Please consider adding a once per second clause to it with battle spirit active. Proccing an extra instance of damage every second easily makes it one of the best pure class passives in the game, simply makes it less toxic by preventing it from being oppressive in pvp.

It takes 60 seconds to test something. I can't prove the Mastery was equiped via a picture, but I'm not making a video for this silly comment. Test it yourself.

Proc's don't proc proc's. Reverberation is counted as a proc. Like proc sets, it can however proc Concussed, only thing I couldn't test is enchants, but they probably don't work since everything else is behaving as normal.

Going back to your list:

1. Vateshran destro proc
2. Burning status effect from vateshran
3. Light attack
4. Concussion from thread of war
5. Crushing shock (frost)
6. Crushing shock (fire)
7. Crushing shock (shock)
8. Chill from crushing shock
9. Burning from crushing shock
10. Concussion from crushing shock
11. Hurricane

Break this down a bit further.. Hurricane ticks on 2s and does nothing on cast, far cry from the 1s tick interval it had 10 years ago or abilities that still do this like Lightning Flood/Blockade, which are useless for PvP.

Light attack is once every second.

Crushing Shock is 3 hits in the same instance, so while it increases your odds by 3x, it's not as advantagous as something like Bound Armaments or Flurry which has a short delay between damage instances, allowing you to proc Reverberation more than once in a 1s window.

There is literally 2 abilities between Lightning Flood (unusable) and Bound Armaments (4s min cooldown) for a Sorc to use, yet your origianl comment acted like Sorc has some crazy amount of extra instances of damage going on to make this passive work. In reality, it's a shadow of its former Implosion self when we could tick once a second with Hurricane, twice a second with Lightning Flood, and once every 2 seconds with Blade Cloak. Obviously it's much different now, but this is your argument and it doesn't do anything substantially more than other classes from the "damage instance" category.

So yeah, you just came up with a random excuse to try and get something nerfed to buff your own class without even understanding how it functions. Focus on your own class, we all deseve to be powerful. Don't get me wrong, it's a very good Mastery for DPS, specifically PVE where you have nearly equal opportunity at all stages of an enemy's health, so the % chance increases gradually, but in PVP, you don't stay lower than 80% of your health at any given time for longer than a second before you're asking to be deleted.

Reverberation's tooltip is slightly weaker than 1 tick of a status effect, definitely weaker than something like Burning Light which has a longer CD, but can be guaranteed. Difference is, status effects can be massively buffed by passives, sets, or now Signet. By your own logic, you should be much more afraid by those builds, which anyone can use and has a much higher chance to proc at full health vs the Mastery's low health + high tick frequency requirment.

This is all to say.. this Mastery is the least of anyone's concern with Calculated Defense, Font of Power, and Conversation of Energy being PvP powerhouses. I love the idea of Implosion (Reverb), but I'd feel like a fool trying to make it work and leaving any of those others on the table.

The silliest part those those 3 Masteries is they don't show up on a death recap, so the casuals will jump to the forums to complain about a Reverb proc that killed them for 500 damage over 20x for 10,000, but they'll be ignorant to the others that are much more potent.

My problem with reverbation isnt the damage its the fact that it can easily proc more than once a second. I know CoE is straight up broken and Font straddling the line but we are here to give feedback and my feedback for this passive is that it shouldnt proc more than once a second with battle spirit active, i dont think thats unreasonable.

I agree with you 100% that the other passives are way better than static and need adjustments too, i left feedback for them as well.
I probably shouldnt have used the example i gave cause yeah procs cant proc procs but it was just an example of how easily you can reach high instances of damage, and even when you decrease the status effects you get 5-6 individual hits easily thats basically at least a near guaranteed proc a sec at 90% hp with the increased base chance, it doesnt need to deal multiple procs a second...

ZhuJiuyin wrote: »

acanca wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

acanca wrote: »

Static Reverberation

This passive was a huge problem for pvp week 1. It was in a fine state after getting adjusted to 0.5 seconds. Its now back to being too powerful with 0.3 seconds cool down and being buffed to base 5% proc rate.

Part of the problem comes from sorc being too good at being able to proc it. 5% proc base doesnt sound like much but consider that a regular status effect build can deal up to 10 instances of seperate damage per second. For example

1-Vateshran destro proc
2-Burning status effect from vateshran
3-Light attack
4-Concussion from thread of war
5-Crushing shock (frost)
6-Crushing shock (fire)
7-Crushing shock (shock)
8-Chill from crushing shock
9-Burning from crushing shock
10- Concussion from crushing shock
11-Hurricane

10+ instances of seperate damage in a single second with a 5% base proc chance at full hp, skyrocketing to a certainty at lower health thresholds. This isnt just limited to this specific scenario either, bound armamant is 4 instance of seperate damage by itself and is by itself a burst damage and the burst damage having near certainty to proc additional damage turns it from a burst to an easy execute. In fact it turns basically everything in sorcs arsenal to an execute extremely easily.

Malevolent Promise was excluded from pvp for being too war crimey, well, this passive is the actual war crime. Please consider adding a once per second clause to it with battle spirit active. Proccing an extra instance of damage every second easily makes it one of the best pure class passives in the game, simply makes it less toxic by preventing it from being oppressive in pvp.

It takes 60 seconds to test something. I can't prove the Mastery was equiped via a picture, but I'm not making a video for this silly comment. Test it yourself.

Proc's don't proc proc's. Reverberation is counted as a proc. Like proc sets, it can however proc Concussed, only thing I couldn't test is enchants, but they probably don't work since everything else is behaving as normal.

Going back to your list:

1. Vateshran destro proc
2. Burning status effect from vateshran
3. Light attack
4. Concussion from thread of war
5. Crushing shock (frost)
6. Crushing shock (fire)
7. Crushing shock (shock)
8. Chill from crushing shock
9. Burning from crushing shock
10. Concussion from crushing shock
11. Hurricane

Break this down a bit further.. Hurricane ticks on 2s and does nothing on cast, far cry from the 1s tick interval it had 10 years ago or abilities that still do this like Lightning Flood/Blockade, which are useless for PvP.

Light attack is once every second.

Crushing Shock is 3 hits in the same instance, so while it increases your odds by 3x, it's not as advantagous as something like Bound Armaments or Flurry which has a short delay between damage instances, allowing you to proc Reverberation more than once in a 1s window.

There is literally 2 abilities between Lightning Flood (unusable) and Bound Armaments (4s min cooldown) for a Sorc to use, yet your origianl comment acted like Sorc has some crazy amount of extra instances of damage going on to make this passive work. In reality, it's a shadow of its former Implosion self when we could tick once a second with Hurricane, twice a second with Lightning Flood, and once every 2 seconds with Blade Cloak. Obviously it's much different now, but this is your argument and it doesn't do anything substantially more than other classes from the "damage instance" category.

So yeah, you just came up with a random excuse to try and get something nerfed to buff your own class without even understanding how it functions. Focus on your own class, we all deseve to be powerful. Don't get me wrong, it's a very good Mastery for DPS, specifically PVE where you have nearly equal opportunity at all stages of an enemy's health, so the % chance increases gradually, but in PVP, you don't stay lower than 80% of your health at any given time for longer than a second before you're asking to be deleted.

Reverberation's tooltip is slightly weaker than 1 tick of a status effect, definitely weaker than something like Burning Light which has a longer CD, but can be guaranteed. Difference is, status effects can be massively buffed by passives, sets, or now Signet. By your own logic, you should be much more afraid by those builds, which anyone can use and has a much higher chance to proc at full health vs the Mastery's low health + high tick frequency requirment.

This is all to say.. this Mastery is the least of anyone's concern with Calculated Defense, Font of Power, and Conversation of Energy being PvP powerhouses. I love the idea of Implosion (Reverb), but I'd feel like a fool trying to make it work and leaving any of those others on the table.

The silliest part those those 3 Masteries is they don't show up on a death recap, so the casuals will jump to the forums to complain about a Reverb proc that killed them for 500 damage over 20x for 10,000, but they'll be ignorant to the others that are much more potent.

My problem with reverbation isnt the damage its the fact that it can easily proc more than once a second. I know CoE is straight up broken and Font straddling the line but we are here to give feedback and my feedback for this passive is that it shouldnt proc more than once a second with battle spirit active, i dont think thats unreasonable.

I agree with you 100% that the other passives are way better than static and need adjustments too, i left feedback for them as well.
I probably shouldnt have used the example i gave cause yeah procs cant proc procs but it was just an example of how easily you can reach high instances of damage, and even when you decrease the status effects you get 5-6 individual hits easily thats basically at least a near guaranteed proc a sec at 90% hp with the increased base chance, it doesnt need to deal multiple procs a second...

A base chance of 5% isn't high. With 90% health, an attack only has a 15% chance of triggering Reverberation. In your example, that's a light attack, three Crushing Shocks, and Hurricane (assuming the damage occurs exactly at that moment), totaling five instances of damage.

Therefore, assuming these five attacks arrive simultaneously and trigger Reverberation, the probability is 1 - (0.85*0.85*0.85*0.85*0.85), only about a 55% chance of triggering Reverberation, which isn't particularly high. Five different attack sources have only a 55% chance of causing a Reverberation. In contrast, Weapon Enchantment/Alchemical Poison + Crushing Shock (3 Single-target direct attacks) has a 41% chance of causing at least one Status Effect, requiring only four attack sources. Furthermore, Crushing Shock has the potential to cause multiple Status Effects. Therefore, Weapon Enchantment/Alchemical Poison + Crushing Shock actually has a higher chance of causing Status Effect damage than 41%.

Not to mention that the probability of Reverberation is not fixed and has a cooldown, while causing Status Effects is fixed and has no cooldown.

As others have said, Reverberation is currently in a very good state and is balanced enough; it doesn't need further changes.

acanca wrote: »

ZhuJiuyin wrote: »

acanca wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

acanca wrote: »

Static Reverberation

This passive was a huge problem for pvp week 1. It was in a fine state after getting adjusted to 0.5 seconds. Its now back to being too powerful with 0.3 seconds cool down and being buffed to base 5% proc rate.

Part of the problem comes from sorc being too good at being able to proc it. 5% proc base doesnt sound like much but consider that a regular status effect build can deal up to 10 instances of seperate damage per second. For example

1-Vateshran destro proc
2-Burning status effect from vateshran
3-Light attack
4-Concussion from thread of war
5-Crushing shock (frost)
6-Crushing shock (fire)
7-Crushing shock (shock)
8-Chill from crushing shock
9-Burning from crushing shock
10- Concussion from crushing shock
11-Hurricane

10+ instances of seperate damage in a single second with a 5% base proc chance at full hp, skyrocketing to a certainty at lower health thresholds. This isnt just limited to this specific scenario either, bound armamant is 4 instance of seperate damage by itself and is by itself a burst damage and the burst damage having near certainty to proc additional damage turns it from a burst to an easy execute. In fact it turns basically everything in sorcs arsenal to an execute extremely easily.

Malevolent Promise was excluded from pvp for being too war crimey, well, this passive is the actual war crime. Please consider adding a once per second clause to it with battle spirit active. Proccing an extra instance of damage every second easily makes it one of the best pure class passives in the game, simply makes it less toxic by preventing it from being oppressive in pvp.

It takes 60 seconds to test something. I can't prove the Mastery was equiped via a picture, but I'm not making a video for this silly comment. Test it yourself.

Proc's don't proc proc's. Reverberation is counted as a proc. Like proc sets, it can however proc Concussed, only thing I couldn't test is enchants, but they probably don't work since everything else is behaving as normal.

Going back to your list:

1. Vateshran destro proc
2. Burning status effect from vateshran
3. Light attack
4. Concussion from thread of war
5. Crushing shock (frost)
6. Crushing shock (fire)
7. Crushing shock (shock)
8. Chill from crushing shock
9. Burning from crushing shock
10. Concussion from crushing shock
11. Hurricane

Break this down a bit further.. Hurricane ticks on 2s and does nothing on cast, far cry from the 1s tick interval it had 10 years ago or abilities that still do this like Lightning Flood/Blockade, which are useless for PvP.

Light attack is once every second.

Crushing Shock is 3 hits in the same instance, so while it increases your odds by 3x, it's not as advantagous as something like Bound Armaments or Flurry which has a short delay between damage instances, allowing you to proc Reverberation more than once in a 1s window.

There is literally 2 abilities between Lightning Flood (unusable) and Bound Armaments (4s min cooldown) for a Sorc to use, yet your origianl comment acted like Sorc has some crazy amount of extra instances of damage going on to make this passive work. In reality, it's a shadow of its former Implosion self when we could tick once a second with Hurricane, twice a second with Lightning Flood, and once every 2 seconds with Blade Cloak. Obviously it's much different now, but this is your argument and it doesn't do anything substantially more than other classes from the "damage instance" category.

So yeah, you just came up with a random excuse to try and get something nerfed to buff your own class without even understanding how it functions. Focus on your own class, we all deseve to be powerful. Don't get me wrong, it's a very good Mastery for DPS, specifically PVE where you have nearly equal opportunity at all stages of an enemy's health, so the % chance increases gradually, but in PVP, you don't stay lower than 80% of your health at any given time for longer than a second before you're asking to be deleted.

Reverberation's tooltip is slightly weaker than 1 tick of a status effect, definitely weaker than something like Burning Light which has a longer CD, but can be guaranteed. Difference is, status effects can be massively buffed by passives, sets, or now Signet. By your own logic, you should be much more afraid by those builds, which anyone can use and has a much higher chance to proc at full health vs the Mastery's low health + high tick frequency requirment.

This is all to say.. this Mastery is the least of anyone's concern with Calculated Defense, Font of Power, and Conversation of Energy being PvP powerhouses. I love the idea of Implosion (Reverb), but I'd feel like a fool trying to make it work and leaving any of those others on the table.

The silliest part those those 3 Masteries is they don't show up on a death recap, so the casuals will jump to the forums to complain about a Reverb proc that killed them for 500 damage over 20x for 10,000, but they'll be ignorant to the others that are much more potent.

My problem with reverbation isnt the damage its the fact that it can easily proc more than once a second. I know CoE is straight up broken and Font straddling the line but we are here to give feedback and my feedback for this passive is that it shouldnt proc more than once a second with battle spirit active, i dont think thats unreasonable.

I agree with you 100% that the other passives are way better than static and need adjustments too, i left feedback for them as well.
I probably shouldnt have used the example i gave cause yeah procs cant proc procs but it was just an example of how easily you can reach high instances of damage, and even when you decrease the status effects you get 5-6 individual hits easily thats basically at least a near guaranteed proc a sec at 90% hp with the increased base chance, it doesnt need to deal multiple procs a second...

A base chance of 5% isn't high. With 90% health, an attack only has a 15% chance of triggering Reverberation. In your example, that's a light attack, three Crushing Shocks, and Hurricane (assuming the damage occurs exactly at that moment), totaling five instances of damage.

Therefore, assuming these five attacks arrive simultaneously and trigger Reverberation, the probability is 1 - (0.85*0.85*0.85*0.85*0.85), only about a 55% chance of triggering Reverberation, which isn't particularly high. Five different attack sources have only a 55% chance of causing a Reverberation. In contrast, Weapon Enchantment/Alchemical Poison + Crushing Shock (3 Single-target direct attacks) has a 41% chance of causing at least one Status Effect, requiring only four attack sources. Furthermore, Crushing Shock has the potential to cause multiple Status Effects. Therefore, Weapon Enchantment/Alchemical Poison + Crushing Shock actually has a higher chance of causing Status Effect damage than 41%.

Not to mention that the probability of Reverberation is not fixed and has a cooldown, while causing Status Effects is fixed and has no cooldown.

As others have said, Reverberation is currently in a very good state and is balanced enough; it doesn't need further changes.

This is supposed to be a passive that works best at low hp thresholds and we are saying a 55% proc rate at 90% health isnt high? Really?
This is getting ridiculous again ...

NxJoeyD wrote: »

acanca wrote: »

NxJoeyD wrote: »

acanca wrote: »

NxJoeyD wrote: »

acanca wrote: »

NxJoeyD wrote: »

acanca wrote: »

Static Reverberation

This passive was a huge problem for pvp week 1. It was in a fine state after getting adjusted to 0.5 seconds. Its now back to being too powerful with 0.3 seconds cool down and being buffed to base 5% proc rate.

Part of the problem comes from sorc being too good at being able to proc it. 5% proc base doesnt sound like much but consider that a regular status effect build can deal up to 10 instances of seperate damage per second. For example

1-Vateshran destro proc
2-Burning status effect from vateshran
3-Light attack
4-Concussion from thread of war
5-Crushing shock (frost)
6-Crushing shock (fire)
7-Crushing shock (shock)
8-Chill from crushing shock
9-Burning from crushing shock
10- Concussion from crushing shock
11-Hurricane

10+ instances of seperate damage in a single second with a 5% base proc chance at full hp, skyrocketing to a certainty at lower health thresholds. This isnt just limited to this specific scenario either, bound armamant is 4 instance of seperate damage by itself and is by itself a burst damage and the burst damage having near certainty to proc additional damage turns it from a burst to an easy execute. In fact it turns basically everything in sorcs arsenal to an execute extremely easily.

Malevolent Promise was excluded from pvp for being too war crimey, well, this passive is the actual war crime. Please consider adding a once per second clause to it with battle spirit active. Proccing an extra instance of damage every second easily makes it one of the best pure class passives in the game, simply makes it less toxic by preventing it from being oppressive in pvp.

I have to disagree here.

You’re right about being able to stack stand effects but re-read your own post. Out of the 10 sources of status application only one comes from Sorc … just one.

Nothing else on that list is Sorc Specific which means that being a Sorc doesn’t make those skills any more effective. It’s not as though Sorcs can synergize those status effects better than any other class because any and every other class can slot 9 out of those 10 abilities, it’s just that Sorcs have the passive.

To be honest the main status I see Sorcs using here is Overcharge rather than any of the elementals and that’s really leaning a bit on LA & scribing, also outside of the class skill set.

Running a status effect build can hit hard in PvP but it leaves the build open to quite a lot because in order to maximize it requires specific supporting gear and attention to their mitigation. A status-effect Sorc vs a subclassed crit meta build, for example, is going to have a run for their money because they’re going to have to keep up shields & heal in a rotation versus just spamming LA + skill weaves.

Sorcs are not in a good place. I don’t know who thinks that but this observation really is evidence of that if Sorcs are leaning on status effect output rather than their own class skills.

These passives need to hit hard and the buff makes sense, it provides for a viable means to be competitive in the scope of subclasses builds until the Sorc refresh, which is the whole point. Static at 0.3 & 5% is where it needs to be.

What does the source of the skill have to do with anything? Are you guys just trying to be funny?

Because your argument is that Sorcs are somehow better able to make use of applying status effects.

That, factually, isn’t true because 90% of the sources of applying those status effects are available to every player, they’re not Sorc specific.

This means that, no, Sorcs do not have some extra benefit when it comes to applying status effects, anyone can use Crushing Shock, anyone can run Vateshran, anyone can light attack with a Destro staff, etc.

If Sorcs had clad specific skills that were better able to apply status effects then, yes, you’d be right; Sorcs would have an easier time than other classes but that isn’t the case.

I don’t think it’s right to ask for a passive to be nerfed simply because it synergizes with world skills; especially when the class skills for the class in question are so poor.

Using status effects as a main source of damage in PvP is both interesting and risky; and really only works if the player is running the Signet mythic, which, anyone else can slot too. This leaves a build like that open to quite a lot in PvP despite having some descent damage potential but is far from OP.

My argument is that sorc has an easy time proccing Static Reverbation passive. I'm sorry to say that literally everything you are talking about is irrelevant to the topic...

I'll put it in simple terms to be better understood. We dont consider Wild Adaptation weak because warden can maintain at most chilled and maybe hemorrhaging with its base class skills. We consider it strong because with elemental susceptibility, blood for blood and various other sets and skills warden is able to reach and maintain a respectable number of status effects.

Obviously we dont treat class masteries in a vacuum with only the class skills. That would be, absurd, ill put a stop to this nonsense that non class skills has to be disregarded while considering class masteries. I will also ask you to reconsider your bias on sorc, it seems to be clouding your judgment.

And what myself and others are telling you is that Sorcs don’t have as easy of a time proccing the passive as you seem to think.

Remember, Static doesn’t just proc per instance of damage, it procs per instance of damage within the 0.3s timeframe. So if a Sorc tosses Crushing Shock and deals 3 instances of damage all at once, then that counts as “one” for the purposes of Static because all 3 occurred at the same time and the passive has the 0.3s cooldown, so effectively, 2 out of the 3 instances don’t contribute to the passive.

Nobody is saying that you consider Mastery passives in a vacuum, what I’m saying is that you have to consider the current state of Sorc skills as they are now in the context of how much strength these passives should or should not have. Plus, Sorcs pay a penalty for having to slot world skills over their class skills in that they take a hit to their output in doing so which goes toward being able to proc Static in the first place.

When I talk about Sorcs using skills outside of their class it is relevant because Sorcs have no reliable spammable burst. Just about every class has at least one skill that’s a reliable heavy burst spam.

When you consider that Static only reliably procs after the targets health gets below a certain point you can see where this raises a problem for Sorcs in PvP, they need burst and they don’t have it and world skills only partially deliver on this.

In PvP, with Sorc having no heavy bursts and target players having strong self healing available, getting a target down to a low enough health for Static to do any consistent numbers isn’t as easy as you’re saying. Out of, let’s say, 5 or 6 instances of damage per GCD Static might proc once, and that’s only once their health hit gets lowered.

If Sorcs had a class skill like Merciless that scaled really high and could thereby chunk a players health in one burst and then allow Static to kick in and help the Sorc keep the targets health lower and keep applying the passive, then maybe you’d have a point but that’s not the case and no world skill is that strong either.

For comparison, Burning Light, for example, will proc FAR more consistently over the course of combat and do more damage than Static will since it can apply persistently, not just when targets are lower health.

Sorcs cannot realistically proc Static more than once per second, even though the passive cooldown is only 0.3s because Sorcs don’t have access to any skills that apply damage in fractional increments. Dealing multiple instances of damage all at the same time does not count each instance toward the passive.

Further, you have the health barrier to consider so the realistic amount of proc that can happen is far less than you’re thinking and testing shows that.

Even at relatively high health treshold like 85% hp 5 instances of damage with 20% proc chance each isnt a low proc rate and its basically a guarantee at even lower health tresholds.

But as you say if ''Sorcs cannot realistically proc Static more than once per second, even though the passive cooldown is only 0.3s because Sorcs don’t have access to any skills that apply damage in fractional increments. Dealing multiple instances of damage all at the same time does not count each instance toward the passive. '' than you wouldnt mind if the passive was adjusted to proc only once per second with battle spirit active so i have no idea why you are trying to argue with me when you agree with me.

Btw the skill you are looking for is BA ...

That’s not how this passive works.

If one deals 5 simultaneous instances of damage to a target they do not get a 20% chance EACH to proc. All 5 would constitute one chance and against a target that has 85% health that would be one 20% chance (5% base plus 15%, 1% for each missing percent of target health).

In order to get 5 chances to apply Static a Sorc would need to apply damage 5 separate times (not just 5 instances) which would mean 5 GCD or 5 seconds. Which takes me back to my original point that over 5 to 6 applications of damage (aka 5 or 6 seconds) this passive would likely proc once.

That’s nowhere near a guarantee proc chance. Plus, the damage doesn’t scale that awful high either, not given how limited the proc chance is.

Further, it’s only the BASE chance that’s 5%, it’s not 5% per missing health. It’s 5% plus 1% per missing health.

There is zero scenario where this passive has a 55%chance to apply damage against a target that has 90% health; that’s just factually wrong and it seems people might be confused as to how this passive actually works.

NxJoeyD wrote: »

acanca wrote: »

NxJoeyD wrote: »

acanca wrote: »

NxJoeyD wrote: »

acanca wrote: »

NxJoeyD wrote: »

acanca wrote: »

Static Reverberation

This passive was a huge problem for pvp week 1. It was in a fine state after getting adjusted to 0.5 seconds. Its now back to being too powerful with 0.3 seconds cool down and being buffed to base 5% proc rate.

Part of the problem comes from sorc being too good at being able to proc it. 5% proc base doesnt sound like much but consider that a regular status effect build can deal up to 10 instances of seperate damage per second. For example

1-Vateshran destro proc
2-Burning status effect from vateshran
3-Light attack
4-Concussion from thread of war
5-Crushing shock (frost)
6-Crushing shock (fire)
7-Crushing shock (shock)
8-Chill from crushing shock
9-Burning from crushing shock
10- Concussion from crushing shock
11-Hurricane

10+ instances of seperate damage in a single second with a 5% base proc chance at full hp, skyrocketing to a certainty at lower health thresholds. This isnt just limited to this specific scenario either, bound armamant is 4 instance of seperate damage by itself and is by itself a burst damage and the burst damage having near certainty to proc additional damage turns it from a burst to an easy execute. In fact it turns basically everything in sorcs arsenal to an execute extremely easily.

Malevolent Promise was excluded from pvp for being too war crimey, well, this passive is the actual war crime. Please consider adding a once per second clause to it with battle spirit active. Proccing an extra instance of damage every second easily makes it one of the best pure class passives in the game, simply makes it less toxic by preventing it from being oppressive in pvp.

I have to disagree here.

You’re right about being able to stack stand effects but re-read your own post. Out of the 10 sources of status application only one comes from Sorc … just one.

Nothing else on that list is Sorc Specific which means that being a Sorc doesn’t make those skills any more effective. It’s not as though Sorcs can synergize those status effects better than any other class because any and every other class can slot 9 out of those 10 abilities, it’s just that Sorcs have the passive.

To be honest the main status I see Sorcs using here is Overcharge rather than any of the elementals and that’s really leaning a bit on LA & scribing, also outside of the class skill set.

Running a status effect build can hit hard in PvP but it leaves the build open to quite a lot because in order to maximize it requires specific supporting gear and attention to their mitigation. A status-effect Sorc vs a subclassed crit meta build, for example, is going to have a run for their money because they’re going to have to keep up shields & heal in a rotation versus just spamming LA + skill weaves.

Sorcs are not in a good place. I don’t know who thinks that but this observation really is evidence of that if Sorcs are leaning on status effect output rather than their own class skills.

These passives need to hit hard and the buff makes sense, it provides for a viable means to be competitive in the scope of subclasses builds until the Sorc refresh, which is the whole point. Static at 0.3 & 5% is where it needs to be.

What does the source of the skill have to do with anything? Are you guys just trying to be funny?

Because your argument is that Sorcs are somehow better able to make use of applying status effects.

That, factually, isn’t true because 90% of the sources of applying those status effects are available to every player, they’re not Sorc specific.

This means that, no, Sorcs do not have some extra benefit when it comes to applying status effects, anyone can use Crushing Shock, anyone can run Vateshran, anyone can light attack with a Destro staff, etc.

If Sorcs had clad specific skills that were better able to apply status effects then, yes, you’d be right; Sorcs would have an easier time than other classes but that isn’t the case.

I don’t think it’s right to ask for a passive to be nerfed simply because it synergizes with world skills; especially when the class skills for the class in question are so poor.

Using status effects as a main source of damage in PvP is both interesting and risky; and really only works if the player is running the Signet mythic, which, anyone else can slot too. This leaves a build like that open to quite a lot in PvP despite having some descent damage potential but is far from OP.

My argument is that sorc has an easy time proccing Static Reverbation passive. I'm sorry to say that literally everything you are talking about is irrelevant to the topic...

I'll put it in simple terms to be better understood. We dont consider Wild Adaptation weak because warden can maintain at most chilled and maybe hemorrhaging with its base class skills. We consider it strong because with elemental susceptibility, blood for blood and various other sets and skills warden is able to reach and maintain a respectable number of status effects.

Obviously we dont treat class masteries in a vacuum with only the class skills. That would be, absurd, ill put a stop to this nonsense that non class skills has to be disregarded while considering class masteries. I will also ask you to reconsider your bias on sorc, it seems to be clouding your judgment.

And what myself and others are telling you is that Sorcs don’t have as easy of a time proccing the passive as you seem to think.

Remember, Static doesn’t just proc per instance of damage, it procs per instance of damage within the 0.3s timeframe. So if a Sorc tosses Crushing Shock and deals 3 instances of damage all at once, then that counts as “one” for the purposes of Static because all 3 occurred at the same time and the passive has the 0.3s cooldown, so effectively, 2 out of the 3 instances don’t contribute to the passive.

Nobody is saying that you consider Mastery passives in a vacuum, what I’m saying is that you have to consider the current state of Sorc skills as they are now in the context of how much strength these passives should or should not have. Plus, Sorcs pay a penalty for having to slot world skills over their class skills in that they take a hit to their output in doing so which goes toward being able to proc Static in the first place.

When I talk about Sorcs using skills outside of their class it is relevant because Sorcs have no reliable spammable burst. Just about every class has at least one skill that’s a reliable heavy burst spam.

When you consider that Static only reliably procs after the targets health gets below a certain point you can see where this raises a problem for Sorcs in PvP, they need burst and they don’t have it and world skills only partially deliver on this.

In PvP, with Sorc having no heavy bursts and target players having strong self healing available, getting a target down to a low enough health for Static to do any consistent numbers isn’t as easy as you’re saying. Out of, let’s say, 5 or 6 instances of damage per GCD Static might proc once, and that’s only once their health hit gets lowered.

If Sorcs had a class skill like Merciless that scaled really high and could thereby chunk a players health in one burst and then allow Static to kick in and help the Sorc keep the targets health lower and keep applying the passive, then maybe you’d have a point but that’s not the case and no world skill is that strong either.

For comparison, Burning Light, for example, will proc FAR more consistently over the course of combat and do more damage than Static will since it can apply persistently, not just when targets are lower health.

Sorcs cannot realistically proc Static more than once per second, even though the passive cooldown is only 0.3s because Sorcs don’t have access to any skills that apply damage in fractional increments. Dealing multiple instances of damage all at the same time does not count each instance toward the passive.

Further, you have the health barrier to consider so the realistic amount of proc that can happen is far less than you’re thinking and testing shows that.

Even at relatively high health treshold like 85% hp 5 instances of damage with 20% proc chance each isnt a low proc rate and its basically a guarantee at even lower health tresholds.

But as you say if ''Sorcs cannot realistically proc Static more than once per second, even though the passive cooldown is only 0.3s because Sorcs don’t have access to any skills that apply damage in fractional increments. Dealing multiple instances of damage all at the same time does not count each instance toward the passive. '' than you wouldnt mind if the passive was adjusted to proc only once per second with battle spirit active so i have no idea why you are trying to argue with me when you agree with me.

Btw the skill you are looking for is BA ...

That’s not how this passive works.

If one deals 5 simultaneous instances of damage to a target they do not get a 20% chance EACH to proc. All 5 would constitute one chance and against a target that has 85% health that would be one 20% chance (5% base plus 15%, 1% for each missing percent of target health).

In order to get 5 chances to apply Static a Sorc would need to apply damage 5 separate times (not just 5 instances) which would mean 5 GCD or 5 seconds. Which takes me back to my original point that over 5 to 6 applications of damage (aka 5 or 6 seconds) this passive would likely proc once.

That’s nowhere near a guarantee proc chance. Plus, the damage doesn’t scale that awful high either, not given how limited the proc chance is.

Further, it’s only the BASE chance that’s 5%, it’s not 5% per missing health. It’s 5% plus 1% per missing health.

There is zero scenario where this passive has a 55%chance to apply damage against a target that has 90% health; that’s just factually wrong and it seems people might be confused as to how this passive actually works.

Now, yes; BA does apply at 0.3 increments, however, that’s the only available skill that aligns with the adjusted cooldown of Static and it’s not readily spammable, requiring a charge and it doesn’t scale anywhere near the damage of, say, Merciless. It’s not a burst and a full charge takes 1.3 seconds to fully execute, which, is why in PvP it’s not a commonly used skill. It’s just too slow and doesn’t deal enough damage in PvP to really be viable. So, again, on paper or just looking at tool tip, yes, one might think BA is a good skill to synergize with Static in PvP but the problem is neither scale to any strong damage value and none align with the strong burst damage PvP demands so there’s not really a good use case for the combo.

I PvP every day and I’ve rarely ever seen BA and I can understand why. It’s just not a good skill and I don’t think anyone is going to slot it just to try and proc Static. BA actually adds longer pacing potential to Static due to the charge full charge up factor so if anything BA holds this passive back even more.

acanca wrote: »

NxJoeyD wrote: »

acanca wrote: »

NxJoeyD wrote: »

acanca wrote: »

NxJoeyD wrote: »

acanca wrote: »

NxJoeyD wrote: »

acanca wrote: »

Static Reverberation

This passive was a huge problem for pvp week 1. It was in a fine state after getting adjusted to 0.5 seconds. Its now back to being too powerful with 0.3 seconds cool down and being buffed to base 5% proc rate.

Part of the problem comes from sorc being too good at being able to proc it. 5% proc base doesnt sound like much but consider that a regular status effect build can deal up to 10 instances of seperate damage per second. For example

1-Vateshran destro proc
2-Burning status effect from vateshran
3-Light attack
4-Concussion from thread of war
5-Crushing shock (frost)
6-Crushing shock (fire)
7-Crushing shock (shock)
8-Chill from crushing shock
9-Burning from crushing shock
10- Concussion from crushing shock
11-Hurricane

10+ instances of seperate damage in a single second with a 5% base proc chance at full hp, skyrocketing to a certainty at lower health thresholds. This isnt just limited to this specific scenario either, bound armamant is 4 instance of seperate damage by itself and is by itself a burst damage and the burst damage having near certainty to proc additional damage turns it from a burst to an easy execute. In fact it turns basically everything in sorcs arsenal to an execute extremely easily.

Malevolent Promise was excluded from pvp for being too war crimey, well, this passive is the actual war crime. Please consider adding a once per second clause to it with battle spirit active. Proccing an extra instance of damage every second easily makes it one of the best pure class passives in the game, simply makes it less toxic by preventing it from being oppressive in pvp.

I have to disagree here.

You’re right about being able to stack stand effects but re-read your own post. Out of the 10 sources of status application only one comes from Sorc … just one.

Nothing else on that list is Sorc Specific which means that being a Sorc doesn’t make those skills any more effective. It’s not as though Sorcs can synergize those status effects better than any other class because any and every other class can slot 9 out of those 10 abilities, it’s just that Sorcs have the passive.

To be honest the main status I see Sorcs using here is Overcharge rather than any of the elementals and that’s really leaning a bit on LA & scribing, also outside of the class skill set.

Running a status effect build can hit hard in PvP but it leaves the build open to quite a lot because in order to maximize it requires specific supporting gear and attention to their mitigation. A status-effect Sorc vs a subclassed crit meta build, for example, is going to have a run for their money because they’re going to have to keep up shields & heal in a rotation versus just spamming LA + skill weaves.

Sorcs are not in a good place. I don’t know who thinks that but this observation really is evidence of that if Sorcs are leaning on status effect output rather than their own class skills.

These passives need to hit hard and the buff makes sense, it provides for a viable means to be competitive in the scope of subclasses builds until the Sorc refresh, which is the whole point. Static at 0.3 & 5% is where it needs to be.

What does the source of the skill have to do with anything? Are you guys just trying to be funny?

Because your argument is that Sorcs are somehow better able to make use of applying status effects.

That, factually, isn’t true because 90% of the sources of applying those status effects are available to every player, they’re not Sorc specific.

This means that, no, Sorcs do not have some extra benefit when it comes to applying status effects, anyone can use Crushing Shock, anyone can run Vateshran, anyone can light attack with a Destro staff, etc.

If Sorcs had clad specific skills that were better able to apply status effects then, yes, you’d be right; Sorcs would have an easier time than other classes but that isn’t the case.

I don’t think it’s right to ask for a passive to be nerfed simply because it synergizes with world skills; especially when the class skills for the class in question are so poor.

Using status effects as a main source of damage in PvP is both interesting and risky; and really only works if the player is running the Signet mythic, which, anyone else can slot too. This leaves a build like that open to quite a lot in PvP despite having some descent damage potential but is far from OP.

My argument is that sorc has an easy time proccing Static Reverbation passive. I'm sorry to say that literally everything you are talking about is irrelevant to the topic...

I'll put it in simple terms to be better understood. We dont consider Wild Adaptation weak because warden can maintain at most chilled and maybe hemorrhaging with its base class skills. We consider it strong because with elemental susceptibility, blood for blood and various other sets and skills warden is able to reach and maintain a respectable number of status effects.

Obviously we dont treat class masteries in a vacuum with only the class skills. That would be, absurd, ill put a stop to this nonsense that non class skills has to be disregarded while considering class masteries. I will also ask you to reconsider your bias on sorc, it seems to be clouding your judgment.

And what myself and others are telling you is that Sorcs don’t have as easy of a time proccing the passive as you seem to think.

Remember, Static doesn’t just proc per instance of damage, it procs per instance of damage within the 0.3s timeframe. So if a Sorc tosses Crushing Shock and deals 3 instances of damage all at once, then that counts as “one” for the purposes of Static because all 3 occurred at the same time and the passive has the 0.3s cooldown, so effectively, 2 out of the 3 instances don’t contribute to the passive.

Nobody is saying that you consider Mastery passives in a vacuum, what I’m saying is that you have to consider the current state of Sorc skills as they are now in the context of how much strength these passives should or should not have. Plus, Sorcs pay a penalty for having to slot world skills over their class skills in that they take a hit to their output in doing so which goes toward being able to proc Static in the first place.

When I talk about Sorcs using skills outside of their class it is relevant because Sorcs have no reliable spammable burst. Just about every class has at least one skill that’s a reliable heavy burst spam.

When you consider that Static only reliably procs after the targets health gets below a certain point you can see where this raises a problem for Sorcs in PvP, they need burst and they don’t have it and world skills only partially deliver on this.

In PvP, with Sorc having no heavy bursts and target players having strong self healing available, getting a target down to a low enough health for Static to do any consistent numbers isn’t as easy as you’re saying. Out of, let’s say, 5 or 6 instances of damage per GCD Static might proc once, and that’s only once their health hit gets lowered.

If Sorcs had a class skill like Merciless that scaled really high and could thereby chunk a players health in one burst and then allow Static to kick in and help the Sorc keep the targets health lower and keep applying the passive, then maybe you’d have a point but that’s not the case and no world skill is that strong either.

For comparison, Burning Light, for example, will proc FAR more consistently over the course of combat and do more damage than Static will since it can apply persistently, not just when targets are lower health.

Sorcs cannot realistically proc Static more than once per second, even though the passive cooldown is only 0.3s because Sorcs don’t have access to any skills that apply damage in fractional increments. Dealing multiple instances of damage all at the same time does not count each instance toward the passive.

Further, you have the health barrier to consider so the realistic amount of proc that can happen is far less than you’re thinking and testing shows that.

Even at relatively high health treshold like 85% hp 5 instances of damage with 20% proc chance each isnt a low proc rate and its basically a guarantee at even lower health tresholds.

But as you say if ''Sorcs cannot realistically proc Static more than once per second, even though the passive cooldown is only 0.3s because Sorcs don’t have access to any skills that apply damage in fractional increments. Dealing multiple instances of damage all at the same time does not count each instance toward the passive. '' than you wouldnt mind if the passive was adjusted to proc only once per second with battle spirit active so i have no idea why you are trying to argue with me when you agree with me.

Btw the skill you are looking for is BA ...

That’s not how this passive works.

If one deals 5 simultaneous instances of damage to a target they do not get a 20% chance EACH to proc. All 5 would constitute one chance and against a target that has 85% health that would be one 20% chance (5% base plus 15%, 1% for each missing percent of target health).

In order to get 5 chances to apply Static a Sorc would need to apply damage 5 separate times (not just 5 instances) which would mean 5 GCD or 5 seconds. Which takes me back to my original point that over 5 to 6 applications of damage (aka 5 or 6 seconds) this passive would likely proc once.

That’s nowhere near a guarantee proc chance. Plus, the damage doesn’t scale that awful high either, not given how limited the proc chance is.

Further, it’s only the BASE chance that’s 5%, it’s not 5% per missing health. It’s 5% plus 1% per missing health.

There is zero scenario where this passive has a 55%chance to apply damage against a target that has 90% health; that’s just factually wrong and it seems people might be confused as to how this passive actually works.

Now, yes; BA does apply at 0.3 increments, however, that’s the only available skill that aligns with the adjusted cooldown of Static and it’s not readily spammable, requiring a charge and it doesn’t scale anywhere near the damage of, say, Merciless. It’s not a burst and a full charge takes 1.3 seconds to fully execute, which, is why in PvP it’s not a commonly used skill. It’s just too slow and doesn’t deal enough damage in PvP to really be viable. So, again, on paper or just looking at tool tip, yes, one might think BA is a good skill to synergize with Static in PvP but the problem is neither scale to any strong damage value and none align with the strong burst damage PvP demands so there’s not really a good use case for the combo.

I PvP every day and I’ve rarely ever seen BA and I can understand why. It’s just not a good skill and I don’t think anyone is going to slot it just to try and proc Static. BA actually adds longer pacing potential to Static due to the charge full charge up factor so if anything BA holds this passive back even more.

Of course you can proc it more than once with a single skill, no its not hard and no it doesnt take a single gcd per proc.

Here is a single BA proccing it 3 times



Here is a single RS doing the same




Here is me proccing it 4 times a second with nothing but a la and a skill. Keep in mind that proccing it 4 times a sec should be hard because of the 0.3 sec cd but again, no it isnt because nobody deals all their damage in 0.3 sec intervals anyway, trying to fit all your damage in that little time bubble would actually be harder than not proccing it multiple times.




So yes i agree with you, proccing this passive more than once a second shouldnt be a thing with battle spirit active and i really hope Zos takes notice and adjusts it accordingly ...

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

acanca wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

acanca wrote: »

Static Reverberation

This passive was a huge problem for pvp week 1. It was in a fine state after getting adjusted to 0.5 seconds. Its now back to being too powerful with 0.3 seconds cool down and being buffed to base 5% proc rate.

Part of the problem comes from sorc being too good at being able to proc it. 5% proc base doesnt sound like much but consider that a regular status effect build can deal up to 10 instances of seperate damage per second. For example

1-Vateshran destro proc
2-Burning status effect from vateshran
3-Light attack
4-Concussion from thread of war
5-Crushing shock (frost)
6-Crushing shock (fire)
7-Crushing shock (shock)
8-Chill from crushing shock
9-Burning from crushing shock
10- Concussion from crushing shock
11-Hurricane

10+ instances of seperate damage in a single second with a 5% base proc chance at full hp, skyrocketing to a certainty at lower health thresholds. This isnt just limited to this specific scenario either, bound armamant is 4 instance of seperate damage by itself and is by itself a burst damage and the burst damage having near certainty to proc additional damage turns it from a burst to an easy execute. In fact it turns basically everything in sorcs arsenal to an execute extremely easily.

Malevolent Promise was excluded from pvp for being too war crimey, well, this passive is the actual war crime. Please consider adding a once per second clause to it with battle spirit active. Proccing an extra instance of damage every second easily makes it one of the best pure class passives in the game, simply makes it less toxic by preventing it from being oppressive in pvp.

TBH, this is more of a condemnation of how status effects and ticky-tack micro ticks of damage have gotten out of control in recent updates than it says anything about Sorc itself. The only actual Sorc skill even in here is Hurricane.

Would much prefer that the Vate Crutch Staff, Ele Sus, and Force Pulse get nerfed before anything else happens. Why do we have things like Rapid Strikes having nerfed status effect chance per tick while Force Pulse skates with the full Single Target Direct Damage multiplier? Seems like nerfing that down to Single Target DOT levels would be a nice place to start balancing. Then we can remove the free cast status of Ele Sus and perhaps delete the auto status effect proc as well.

I think maybe just nerfing ele sus to cost 1-2k mag would be a fine nerf. I wouldnt wanna see the 7.5 seconds status procs removed because its such a unique thing but yes its a really strong skill, maybe adjusting the proc rate to 8-10? Dunno.

I am and honestly have always been a fan of the status effect playstyle and i'll be honest what i described has also been possible a few years back, its just that the buff to status effects uhhh was it last year, in combination with signet made the playstyle a lot more viable, but static reverbation might be too synergistic with the playstyle and sorc in general. I mean, 4 hits on BA itself, 5 with la and did i mention each hit of BA can proc sundered individually and has higher than normal sundered proc rate not mentioned on the skill itself?, yeah thats up to 9 individual damage instances with nothing but a light attack and a single skill

When it comes to Static Reverberation, the build matters I think. The cost of running Static Reverberation can't be neglected. Because what do you choose? Conservation and Static? That means you lose a lot of base damage from Font of Power that makes all your other stuff hit for less, and if you want to run Font and Static Reverb together for full offense, then you have sustain issues unless you build around it, thus once again losing damage elsewhere.

I'd rather Static Reverberation did not exist, because I see it being broken in the hands of some builds, or useless on other, more burst oriented ones.

To be fair that's true for most classes with 2 offensive masteries.

Then that only accentuates my point. In the case of Sorcerer it rings doubly bitterly because Conservation of Energy is not only the sustain, but also the convenience of exporting the effect of the awful Dark Magic line to any other skill. The sustain is one thing, and I could do without it. The convenience though is difficult to ignore.

That's my point too, if you're picking Static over any combination of the main 3, you're shooting yourself in the foot. It requires too much investment to make it work, and is easily countered by purge/defensive players that don't fall below 80% ever. You need the upfront damage to get these people low enough and this Mastery doesn't help, while the others do.

1. Conservation means I don't need a sustain set or food, so more health/damage, while healing every cast and getting actual 100% uptime on the 10% max resource buff. This basically brings back Hardened Ward upfront heal meta, except now you get it on Streak, Bound Armaments, Curse, list goes on. Very diverse Mastery you'd be crazy not to run for how much it offers.
2. Font is just a massive powerspike, 30k resources is easy to hit for 20% w/s damage, massively improving heals/proc sets/damage, and only gets better if you're going the Max Mag stacking route.
3. Defense is a constant 15% shield (PVP), and 6% w/s damage for you and your group. You always have a buffer to your health of 4,500 (assuming 30k HP) that constantly refreshes like a mini parry and might go higher via Minor/Major Vitality or CP. This thing is a cross between the offense and defense of Conservation and Font.

Outside a Glass Cannon, why would I gamble with Reverb?

And I'm not saying Static Reverb is bad, I'm happy with this version of it, but it's just not good for PVP in the current state, it's a dummy parse Mastery. The others are much more versatile and competitive. It's the same reason I wouldn't run the NB or Necro Mastery's that are based on missing health. Those need some type of buff like Reverb to give a bonus at all times, that increases in proportion to their health.

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Pinktraining wrote: »

Exposing tedious mathematical arguments doesn't prove that Reverberation's current state is acceptable. In fact, it only makes people dislike Sorc and Reverberation more. Nobody likes having to calculate probabilities in the tense atmosphere of PvP. Reverberation either needs to be nerfed to a 5-second cooldown or have its damage nerfed by 50%, otherwise there's absolutely no reason to accept the current version of Reverberation into the live server.

Can NB mains who have absolutely zero clue about sorcerer stop commenting on sorcerers trying to get them deleted from the game.

It's been 10+ years already, enough is enough, stick to your own class and let others have a chance to have fun playing their class.

Dracane wrote: »

NxJoeyD wrote: »

acanca wrote: »

NxJoeyD wrote: »

acanca wrote: »

NxJoeyD wrote: »

acanca wrote: »

NxJoeyD wrote: »

acanca wrote: »

NxJoeyD wrote: »

acanca wrote: »

Static Reverberation

This passive was a huge problem for pvp week 1. It was in a fine state after getting adjusted to 0.5 seconds. Its now back to being too powerful with 0.3 seconds cool down and being buffed to base 5% proc rate.

Part of the problem comes from sorc being too good at being able to proc it. 5% proc base doesnt sound like much but consider that a regular status effect build can deal up to 10 instances of seperate damage per second. For example

1-Vateshran destro proc
2-Burning status effect from vateshran
3-Light attack
4-Concussion from thread of war
5-Crushing shock (frost)
6-Crushing shock (fire)
7-Crushing shock (shock)
8-Chill from crushing shock
9-Burning from crushing shock
10- Concussion from crushing shock
11-Hurricane

10+ instances of seperate damage in a single second with a 5% base proc chance at full hp, skyrocketing to a certainty at lower health thresholds. This isnt just limited to this specific scenario either, bound armamant is 4 instance of seperate damage by itself and is by itself a burst damage and the burst damage having near certainty to proc additional damage turns it from a burst to an easy execute. In fact it turns basically everything in sorcs arsenal to an execute extremely easily.

Malevolent Promise was excluded from pvp for being too war crimey, well, this passive is the actual war crime. Please consider adding a once per second clause to it with battle spirit active. Proccing an extra instance of damage every second easily makes it one of the best pure class passives in the game, simply makes it less toxic by preventing it from being oppressive in pvp.

I have to disagree here.

You’re right about being able to stack stand effects but re-read your own post. Out of the 10 sources of status application only one comes from Sorc … just one.

Nothing else on that list is Sorc Specific which means that being a Sorc doesn’t make those skills any more effective. It’s not as though Sorcs can synergize those status effects better than any other class because any and every other class can slot 9 out of those 10 abilities, it’s just that Sorcs have the passive.

To be honest the main status I see Sorcs using here is Overcharge rather than any of the elementals and that’s really leaning a bit on LA & scribing, also outside of the class skill set.

Running a status effect build can hit hard in PvP but it leaves the build open to quite a lot because in order to maximize it requires specific supporting gear and attention to their mitigation. A status-effect Sorc vs a subclassed crit meta build, for example, is going to have a run for their money because they’re going to have to keep up shields & heal in a rotation versus just spamming LA + skill weaves.

Sorcs are not in a good place. I don’t know who thinks that but this observation really is evidence of that if Sorcs are leaning on status effect output rather than their own class skills.

These passives need to hit hard and the buff makes sense, it provides for a viable means to be competitive in the scope of subclasses builds until the Sorc refresh, which is the whole point. Static at 0.3 & 5% is where it needs to be.

What does the source of the skill have to do with anything? Are you guys just trying to be funny?

Because your argument is that Sorcs are somehow better able to make use of applying status effects.

That, factually, isn’t true because 90% of the sources of applying those status effects are available to every player, they’re not Sorc specific.

This means that, no, Sorcs do not have some extra benefit when it comes to applying status effects, anyone can use Crushing Shock, anyone can run Vateshran, anyone can light attack with a Destro staff, etc.

If Sorcs had clad specific skills that were better able to apply status effects then, yes, you’d be right; Sorcs would have an easier time than other classes but that isn’t the case.

I don’t think it’s right to ask for a passive to be nerfed simply because it synergizes with world skills; especially when the class skills for the class in question are so poor.

Using status effects as a main source of damage in PvP is both interesting and risky; and really only works if the player is running the Signet mythic, which, anyone else can slot too. This leaves a build like that open to quite a lot in PvP despite having some descent damage potential but is far from OP.

My argument is that sorc has an easy time proccing Static Reverbation passive. I'm sorry to say that literally everything you are talking about is irrelevant to the topic...

I'll put it in simple terms to be better understood. We dont consider Wild Adaptation weak because warden can maintain at most chilled and maybe hemorrhaging with its base class skills. We consider it strong because with elemental susceptibility, blood for blood and various other sets and skills warden is able to reach and maintain a respectable number of status effects.

Obviously we dont treat class masteries in a vacuum with only the class skills. That would be, absurd, ill put a stop to this nonsense that non class skills has to be disregarded while considering class masteries. I will also ask you to reconsider your bias on sorc, it seems to be clouding your judgment.

And what myself and others are telling you is that Sorcs don’t have as easy of a time proccing the passive as you seem to think.

Remember, Static doesn’t just proc per instance of damage, it procs per instance of damage within the 0.3s timeframe. So if a Sorc tosses Crushing Shock and deals 3 instances of damage all at once, then that counts as “one” for the purposes of Static because all 3 occurred at the same time and the passive has the 0.3s cooldown, so effectively, 2 out of the 3 instances don’t contribute to the passive.

Nobody is saying that you consider Mastery passives in a vacuum, what I’m saying is that you have to consider the current state of Sorc skills as they are now in the context of how much strength these passives should or should not have. Plus, Sorcs pay a penalty for having to slot world skills over their class skills in that they take a hit to their output in doing so which goes toward being able to proc Static in the first place.

When I talk about Sorcs using skills outside of their class it is relevant because Sorcs have no reliable spammable burst. Just about every class has at least one skill that’s a reliable heavy burst spam.

When you consider that Static only reliably procs after the targets health gets below a certain point you can see where this raises a problem for Sorcs in PvP, they need burst and they don’t have it and world skills only partially deliver on this.

In PvP, with Sorc having no heavy bursts and target players having strong self healing available, getting a target down to a low enough health for Static to do any consistent numbers isn’t as easy as you’re saying. Out of, let’s say, 5 or 6 instances of damage per GCD Static might proc once, and that’s only once their health hit gets lowered.

If Sorcs had a class skill like Merciless that scaled really high and could thereby chunk a players health in one burst and then allow Static to kick in and help the Sorc keep the targets health lower and keep applying the passive, then maybe you’d have a point but that’s not the case and no world skill is that strong either.

For comparison, Burning Light, for example, will proc FAR more consistently over the course of combat and do more damage than Static will since it can apply persistently, not just when targets are lower health.

Sorcs cannot realistically proc Static more than once per second, even though the passive cooldown is only 0.3s because Sorcs don’t have access to any skills that apply damage in fractional increments. Dealing multiple instances of damage all at the same time does not count each instance toward the passive.

Further, you have the health barrier to consider so the realistic amount of proc that can happen is far less than you’re thinking and testing shows that.

Even at relatively high health treshold like 85% hp 5 instances of damage with 20% proc chance each isnt a low proc rate and its basically a guarantee at even lower health tresholds.

But as you say if ''Sorcs cannot realistically proc Static more than once per second, even though the passive cooldown is only 0.3s because Sorcs don’t have access to any skills that apply damage in fractional increments. Dealing multiple instances of damage all at the same time does not count each instance toward the passive. '' than you wouldnt mind if the passive was adjusted to proc only once per second with battle spirit active so i have no idea why you are trying to argue with me when you agree with me.

Btw the skill you are looking for is BA ...

That’s not how this passive works.

If one deals 5 simultaneous instances of damage to a target they do not get a 20% chance EACH to proc. All 5 would constitute one chance and against a target that has 85% health that would be one 20% chance (5% base plus 15%, 1% for each missing percent of target health).

In order to get 5 chances to apply Static a Sorc would need to apply damage 5 separate times (not just 5 instances) which would mean 5 GCD or 5 seconds. Which takes me back to my original point that over 5 to 6 applications of damage (aka 5 or 6 seconds) this passive would likely proc once.

That’s nowhere near a guarantee proc chance. Plus, the damage doesn’t scale that awful high either, not given how limited the proc chance is.

Further, it’s only the BASE chance that’s 5%, it’s not 5% per missing health. It’s 5% plus 1% per missing health.

There is zero scenario where this passive has a 55%chance to apply damage against a target that has 90% health; that’s just factually wrong and it seems people might be confused as to how this passive actually works.

Now, yes; BA does apply at 0.3 increments, however, that’s the only available skill that aligns with the adjusted cooldown of Static and it’s not readily spammable, requiring a charge and it doesn’t scale anywhere near the damage of, say, Merciless. It’s not a burst and a full charge takes 1.3 seconds to fully execute, which, is why in PvP it’s not a commonly used skill. It’s just too slow and doesn’t deal enough damage in PvP to really be viable. So, again, on paper or just looking at tool tip, yes, one might think BA is a good skill to synergize with Static in PvP but the problem is neither scale to any strong damage value and none align with the strong burst damage PvP demands so there’s not really a good use case for the combo.

I PvP every day and I’ve rarely ever seen BA and I can understand why. It’s just not a good skill and I don’t think anyone is going to slot it just to try and proc Static. BA actually adds longer pacing potential to Static due to the charge full charge up factor so if anything BA holds this passive back even more.

Of course you can proc it more than once with a single skill, no its not hard and no it doesnt take a single gcd per proc.

Here is a single BA proccing it 3 times



Here is a single RS doing the same




Here is me proccing it 4 times a second with nothing but a la and a skill. Keep in mind that proccing it 4 times a sec should be hard because of the 0.3 sec cd but again, no it isnt because nobody deals all their damage in 0.3 sec intervals anyway, trying to fit all your damage in that little time bubble would actually be harder than not proccing it multiple times.




So yes i agree with you, proccing this passive more than once a second shouldnt be a thing with battle spirit active and i really hope Zos takes notice and adjusts it accordingly ...

You’re not proccing it 3 or 4 times per second, you’re proccing it 3 or 4 times per skill.

In the case of BA, yes, that is the only skill where 3 out of the 4 procs can occur within one second, the 4th would spill into the following second. But there’s a caveat here with BA in that in order to do this you have to have at least 3 or 4 charges, otherwise one cannot do this. BA isn’t a spammable skill so it’s not accurate to say that a Sorc could just use this skill as a means to excessively proc the passive in PvP.

Rapid Strikes takes more than a second to complete and more than 0.3 per strike to deliver so, yes, while it can proc multiple occurrences of the passive, it’s not doing so in less than a second it’s doing so per application which goes to pacing.

Lastly, using the skills on a low health target dummy isn’t reflective of actual PvP combat because you can whittle the health down and ensure a high proc chance which ignores the entire duration of wearing the health down, when the passive wasn’t proccing.

Get into a duel or any PvP venue and we won’t see these same results so when I say testing doesn’t show what your complaint is about that’s what I mean. Dummy parsing only shows that multiple instances of the passive can occur, which we all know, what it doesn’t show is the multiple instances happening collectively in under one second or in a PvP situation.

The only skill that can proc in less than a second is BA but for the charge up pacing reasons I mentioned before it’s not a reliable source of consistent proc which means it’s definitely not broken or in need of a nerf.

Just a friendly query. Are you certain that Bound Armaments is rarely used and that it's bad? Whenever I see any video or stream played as Sorc, they will have Bound Armaments and use it all the time. I dislike that skill, because it does not synergize with Overload centric statregies, but it seems to deal more damage for me than Crystal Fragments with all its Sundered procs.

Dracane wrote: »

ZhuJiuyin wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

NxJoeyD wrote: »

acanca wrote: »

NxJoeyD wrote: »

acanca wrote: »

NxJoeyD wrote: »

acanca wrote: »

NxJoeyD wrote: »

acanca wrote: »

NxJoeyD wrote: »

acanca wrote: »

Static Reverberation

This passive was a huge problem for pvp week 1. It was in a fine state after getting adjusted to 0.5 seconds. Its now back to being too powerful with 0.3 seconds cool down and being buffed to base 5% proc rate.

Part of the problem comes from sorc being too good at being able to proc it. 5% proc base doesnt sound like much but consider that a regular status effect build can deal up to 10 instances of seperate damage per second. For example

1-Vateshran destro proc
2-Burning status effect from vateshran
3-Light attack
4-Concussion from thread of war
5-Crushing shock (frost)
6-Crushing shock (fire)
7-Crushing shock (shock)
8-Chill from crushing shock
9-Burning from crushing shock
10- Concussion from crushing shock
11-Hurricane

10+ instances of seperate damage in a single second with a 5% base proc chance at full hp, skyrocketing to a certainty at lower health thresholds. This isnt just limited to this specific scenario either, bound armamant is 4 instance of seperate damage by itself and is by itself a burst damage and the burst damage having near certainty to proc additional damage turns it from a burst to an easy execute. In fact it turns basically everything in sorcs arsenal to an execute extremely easily.

Malevolent Promise was excluded from pvp for being too war crimey, well, this passive is the actual war crime. Please consider adding a once per second clause to it with battle spirit active. Proccing an extra instance of damage every second easily makes it one of the best pure class passives in the game, simply makes it less toxic by preventing it from being oppressive in pvp.

I have to disagree here.

You’re right about being able to stack stand effects but re-read your own post. Out of the 10 sources of status application only one comes from Sorc … just one.

Nothing else on that list is Sorc Specific which means that being a Sorc doesn’t make those skills any more effective. It’s not as though Sorcs can synergize those status effects better than any other class because any and every other class can slot 9 out of those 10 abilities, it’s just that Sorcs have the passive.

To be honest the main status I see Sorcs using here is Overcharge rather than any of the elementals and that’s really leaning a bit on LA & scribing, also outside of the class skill set.

Running a status effect build can hit hard in PvP but it leaves the build open to quite a lot because in order to maximize it requires specific supporting gear and attention to their mitigation. A status-effect Sorc vs a subclassed crit meta build, for example, is going to have a run for their money because they’re going to have to keep up shields & heal in a rotation versus just spamming LA + skill weaves.

Sorcs are not in a good place. I don’t know who thinks that but this observation really is evidence of that if Sorcs are leaning on status effect output rather than their own class skills.

These passives need to hit hard and the buff makes sense, it provides for a viable means to be competitive in the scope of subclasses builds until the Sorc refresh, which is the whole point. Static at 0.3 & 5% is where it needs to be.

What does the source of the skill have to do with anything? Are you guys just trying to be funny?

Because your argument is that Sorcs are somehow better able to make use of applying status effects.

That, factually, isn’t true because 90% of the sources of applying those status effects are available to every player, they’re not Sorc specific.

This means that, no, Sorcs do not have some extra benefit when it comes to applying status effects, anyone can use Crushing Shock, anyone can run Vateshran, anyone can light attack with a Destro staff, etc.

If Sorcs had clad specific skills that were better able to apply status effects then, yes, you’d be right; Sorcs would have an easier time than other classes but that isn’t the case.

I don’t think it’s right to ask for a passive to be nerfed simply because it synergizes with world skills; especially when the class skills for the class in question are so poor.

Using status effects as a main source of damage in PvP is both interesting and risky; and really only works if the player is running the Signet mythic, which, anyone else can slot too. This leaves a build like that open to quite a lot in PvP despite having some descent damage potential but is far from OP.

My argument is that sorc has an easy time proccing Static Reverbation passive. I'm sorry to say that literally everything you are talking about is irrelevant to the topic...

I'll put it in simple terms to be better understood. We dont consider Wild Adaptation weak because warden can maintain at most chilled and maybe hemorrhaging with its base class skills. We consider it strong because with elemental susceptibility, blood for blood and various other sets and skills warden is able to reach and maintain a respectable number of status effects.

Obviously we dont treat class masteries in a vacuum with only the class skills. That would be, absurd, ill put a stop to this nonsense that non class skills has to be disregarded while considering class masteries. I will also ask you to reconsider your bias on sorc, it seems to be clouding your judgment.

And what myself and others are telling you is that Sorcs don’t have as easy of a time proccing the passive as you seem to think.

Remember, Static doesn’t just proc per instance of damage, it procs per instance of damage within the 0.3s timeframe. So if a Sorc tosses Crushing Shock and deals 3 instances of damage all at once, then that counts as “one” for the purposes of Static because all 3 occurred at the same time and the passive has the 0.3s cooldown, so effectively, 2 out of the 3 instances don’t contribute to the passive.

Nobody is saying that you consider Mastery passives in a vacuum, what I’m saying is that you have to consider the current state of Sorc skills as they are now in the context of how much strength these passives should or should not have. Plus, Sorcs pay a penalty for having to slot world skills over their class skills in that they take a hit to their output in doing so which goes toward being able to proc Static in the first place.

When I talk about Sorcs using skills outside of their class it is relevant because Sorcs have no reliable spammable burst. Just about every class has at least one skill that’s a reliable heavy burst spam.

When you consider that Static only reliably procs after the targets health gets below a certain point you can see where this raises a problem for Sorcs in PvP, they need burst and they don’t have it and world skills only partially deliver on this.

In PvP, with Sorc having no heavy bursts and target players having strong self healing available, getting a target down to a low enough health for Static to do any consistent numbers isn’t as easy as you’re saying. Out of, let’s say, 5 or 6 instances of damage per GCD Static might proc once, and that’s only once their health hit gets lowered.

If Sorcs had a class skill like Merciless that scaled really high and could thereby chunk a players health in one burst and then allow Static to kick in and help the Sorc keep the targets health lower and keep applying the passive, then maybe you’d have a point but that’s not the case and no world skill is that strong either.

For comparison, Burning Light, for example, will proc FAR more consistently over the course of combat and do more damage than Static will since it can apply persistently, not just when targets are lower health.

Sorcs cannot realistically proc Static more than once per second, even though the passive cooldown is only 0.3s because Sorcs don’t have access to any skills that apply damage in fractional increments. Dealing multiple instances of damage all at the same time does not count each instance toward the passive.

Further, you have the health barrier to consider so the realistic amount of proc that can happen is far less than you’re thinking and testing shows that.

Even at relatively high health treshold like 85% hp 5 instances of damage with 20% proc chance each isnt a low proc rate and its basically a guarantee at even lower health tresholds.

But as you say if ''Sorcs cannot realistically proc Static more than once per second, even though the passive cooldown is only 0.3s because Sorcs don’t have access to any skills that apply damage in fractional increments. Dealing multiple instances of damage all at the same time does not count each instance toward the passive. '' than you wouldnt mind if the passive was adjusted to proc only once per second with battle spirit active so i have no idea why you are trying to argue with me when you agree with me.

Btw the skill you are looking for is BA ...

That’s not how this passive works.

If one deals 5 simultaneous instances of damage to a target they do not get a 20% chance EACH to proc. All 5 would constitute one chance and against a target that has 85% health that would be one 20% chance (5% base plus 15%, 1% for each missing percent of target health).

In order to get 5 chances to apply Static a Sorc would need to apply damage 5 separate times (not just 5 instances) which would mean 5 GCD or 5 seconds. Which takes me back to my original point that over 5 to 6 applications of damage (aka 5 or 6 seconds) this passive would likely proc once.

That’s nowhere near a guarantee proc chance. Plus, the damage doesn’t scale that awful high either, not given how limited the proc chance is.

Further, it’s only the BASE chance that’s 5%, it’s not 5% per missing health. It’s 5% plus 1% per missing health.

There is zero scenario where this passive has a 55%chance to apply damage against a target that has 90% health; that’s just factually wrong and it seems people might be confused as to how this passive actually works.

Now, yes; BA does apply at 0.3 increments, however, that’s the only available skill that aligns with the adjusted cooldown of Static and it’s not readily spammable, requiring a charge and it doesn’t scale anywhere near the damage of, say, Merciless. It’s not a burst and a full charge takes 1.3 seconds to fully execute, which, is why in PvP it’s not a commonly used skill. It’s just too slow and doesn’t deal enough damage in PvP to really be viable. So, again, on paper or just looking at tool tip, yes, one might think BA is a good skill to synergize with Static in PvP but the problem is neither scale to any strong damage value and none align with the strong burst damage PvP demands so there’s not really a good use case for the combo.

I PvP every day and I’ve rarely ever seen BA and I can understand why. It’s just not a good skill and I don’t think anyone is going to slot it just to try and proc Static. BA actually adds longer pacing potential to Static due to the charge full charge up factor so if anything BA holds this passive back even more.

Of course you can proc it more than once with a single skill, no its not hard and no it doesnt take a single gcd per proc.

Here is a single BA proccing it 3 times



Here is a single RS doing the same




Here is me proccing it 4 times a second with nothing but a la and a skill. Keep in mind that proccing it 4 times a sec should be hard because of the 0.3 sec cd but again, no it isnt because nobody deals all their damage in 0.3 sec intervals anyway, trying to fit all your damage in that little time bubble would actually be harder than not proccing it multiple times.




So yes i agree with you, proccing this passive more than once a second shouldnt be a thing with battle spirit active and i really hope Zos takes notice and adjusts it accordingly ...

You’re not proccing it 3 or 4 times per second, you’re proccing it 3 or 4 times per skill.

In the case of BA, yes, that is the only skill where 3 out of the 4 procs can occur within one second, the 4th would spill into the following second. But there’s a caveat here with BA in that in order to do this you have to have at least 3 or 4 charges, otherwise one cannot do this. BA isn’t a spammable skill so it’s not accurate to say that a Sorc could just use this skill as a means to excessively proc the passive in PvP.

Rapid Strikes takes more than a second to complete and more than 0.3 per strike to deliver so, yes, while it can proc multiple occurrences of the passive, it’s not doing so in less than a second it’s doing so per application which goes to pacing.

Lastly, using the skills on a low health target dummy isn’t reflective of actual PvP combat because you can whittle the health down and ensure a high proc chance which ignores the entire duration of wearing the health down, when the passive wasn’t proccing.

Get into a duel or any PvP venue and we won’t see these same results so when I say testing doesn’t show what your complaint is about that’s what I mean. Dummy parsing only shows that multiple instances of the passive can occur, which we all know, what it doesn’t show is the multiple instances happening collectively in under one second or in a PvP situation.

The only skill that can proc in less than a second is BA but for the charge up pacing reasons I mentioned before it’s not a reliable source of consistent proc which means it’s definitely not broken or in need of a nerf.

Just a friendly query. Are you certain that Bound Armaments is rarely used and that it's bad? Whenever I see any video or stream played as Sorc, they will have Bound Armaments and use it all the time. I dislike that skill, because it does not synergize with Overload centric statregies, but it seems to deal more damage for me than Crystal Fragments with all its Sundered procs.

I believe Bound Armaments deals slightly less damage than (Red) Crystal Fragments. The reason Bound Armaments sometimes account for a higher percentage of damage is simply due to the inconsistent trigger rate of Red Crystal. (This is another sore point for Sorc; Red Crystal is Sorc's strongest skill, yet its performance is so unreliable.)




This is one of my tests. Sorry, it's only in Chinese, but you can see that Red Crystal dealt 33 instances of damage, 23 of which were critical hits, while Bound Armaments dealt 128 instances of damage, 92 of which were critical hits. Since Bound Armaments uses 4 daggers at once, we need to divide by 4, meaning it used Bound Armaments 32 times, and the same as Red Crystal, have 23 critical hits. Although the number of uses and critical hits are similar, Red Crystal's total damage is slightly higher than Bound Armaments.

Additionally, we should compared Bound Armaments with NB's Grim Focus. Even relentless Focus (a weaker morph) still deals about 20% more damage than Bound Armaments, while also providing healing, consuming less mana, and unlike Bound Armaments, it does not have a time limit.

So , yes. Bound Armaments is not good.

Raw damage wise, Red Crystal as you call it is better than Bound Armaments, but you need to also consider the 4 chances Armaments have to proc Sundered, and they seem to have an elevated chance of doing so not disclosed in the tooltip.

I think it is a strong skill, although too annoying to use if you want to play around Overload.

Dracane wrote: »

NxJoeyD wrote: »

acanca wrote: »

NxJoeyD wrote: »

acanca wrote: »

NxJoeyD wrote: »

acanca wrote: »

NxJoeyD wrote: »

acanca wrote: »

NxJoeyD wrote: »

acanca wrote: »

Static Reverberation

This passive was a huge problem for pvp week 1. It was in a fine state after getting adjusted to 0.5 seconds. Its now back to being too powerful with 0.3 seconds cool down and being buffed to base 5% proc rate.

Part of the problem comes from sorc being too good at being able to proc it. 5% proc base doesnt sound like much but consider that a regular status effect build can deal up to 10 instances of seperate damage per second. For example

1-Vateshran destro proc
2-Burning status effect from vateshran
3-Light attack
4-Concussion from thread of war
5-Crushing shock (frost)
6-Crushing shock (fire)
7-Crushing shock (shock)
8-Chill from crushing shock
9-Burning from crushing shock
10- Concussion from crushing shock
11-Hurricane

10+ instances of seperate damage in a single second with a 5% base proc chance at full hp, skyrocketing to a certainty at lower health thresholds. This isnt just limited to this specific scenario either, bound armamant is 4 instance of seperate damage by itself and is by itself a burst damage and the burst damage having near certainty to proc additional damage turns it from a burst to an easy execute. In fact it turns basically everything in sorcs arsenal to an execute extremely easily.

Malevolent Promise was excluded from pvp for being too war crimey, well, this passive is the actual war crime. Please consider adding a once per second clause to it with battle spirit active. Proccing an extra instance of damage every second easily makes it one of the best pure class passives in the game, simply makes it less toxic by preventing it from being oppressive in pvp.

I have to disagree here.

You’re right about being able to stack stand effects but re-read your own post. Out of the 10 sources of status application only one comes from Sorc … just one.

Nothing else on that list is Sorc Specific which means that being a Sorc doesn’t make those skills any more effective. It’s not as though Sorcs can synergize those status effects better than any other class because any and every other class can slot 9 out of those 10 abilities, it’s just that Sorcs have the passive.

To be honest the main status I see Sorcs using here is Overcharge rather than any of the elementals and that’s really leaning a bit on LA & scribing, also outside of the class skill set.

Running a status effect build can hit hard in PvP but it leaves the build open to quite a lot because in order to maximize it requires specific supporting gear and attention to their mitigation. A status-effect Sorc vs a subclassed crit meta build, for example, is going to have a run for their money because they’re going to have to keep up shields & heal in a rotation versus just spamming LA + skill weaves.

Sorcs are not in a good place. I don’t know who thinks that but this observation really is evidence of that if Sorcs are leaning on status effect output rather than their own class skills.

These passives need to hit hard and the buff makes sense, it provides for a viable means to be competitive in the scope of subclasses builds until the Sorc refresh, which is the whole point. Static at 0.3 & 5% is where it needs to be.

What does the source of the skill have to do with anything? Are you guys just trying to be funny?

Because your argument is that Sorcs are somehow better able to make use of applying status effects.

That, factually, isn’t true because 90% of the sources of applying those status effects are available to every player, they’re not Sorc specific.

This means that, no, Sorcs do not have some extra benefit when it comes to applying status effects, anyone can use Crushing Shock, anyone can run Vateshran, anyone can light attack with a Destro staff, etc.

If Sorcs had clad specific skills that were better able to apply status effects then, yes, you’d be right; Sorcs would have an easier time than other classes but that isn’t the case.

I don’t think it’s right to ask for a passive to be nerfed simply because it synergizes with world skills; especially when the class skills for the class in question are so poor.

Using status effects as a main source of damage in PvP is both interesting and risky; and really only works if the player is running the Signet mythic, which, anyone else can slot too. This leaves a build like that open to quite a lot in PvP despite having some descent damage potential but is far from OP.

My argument is that sorc has an easy time proccing Static Reverbation passive. I'm sorry to say that literally everything you are talking about is irrelevant to the topic...

I'll put it in simple terms to be better understood. We dont consider Wild Adaptation weak because warden can maintain at most chilled and maybe hemorrhaging with its base class skills. We consider it strong because with elemental susceptibility, blood for blood and various other sets and skills warden is able to reach and maintain a respectable number of status effects.

Obviously we dont treat class masteries in a vacuum with only the class skills. That would be, absurd, ill put a stop to this nonsense that non class skills has to be disregarded while considering class masteries. I will also ask you to reconsider your bias on sorc, it seems to be clouding your judgment.

And what myself and others are telling you is that Sorcs don’t have as easy of a time proccing the passive as you seem to think.

Remember, Static doesn’t just proc per instance of damage, it procs per instance of damage within the 0.3s timeframe. So if a Sorc tosses Crushing Shock and deals 3 instances of damage all at once, then that counts as “one” for the purposes of Static because all 3 occurred at the same time and the passive has the 0.3s cooldown, so effectively, 2 out of the 3 instances don’t contribute to the passive.

Nobody is saying that you consider Mastery passives in a vacuum, what I’m saying is that you have to consider the current state of Sorc skills as they are now in the context of how much strength these passives should or should not have. Plus, Sorcs pay a penalty for having to slot world skills over their class skills in that they take a hit to their output in doing so which goes toward being able to proc Static in the first place.

When I talk about Sorcs using skills outside of their class it is relevant because Sorcs have no reliable spammable burst. Just about every class has at least one skill that’s a reliable heavy burst spam.

When you consider that Static only reliably procs after the targets health gets below a certain point you can see where this raises a problem for Sorcs in PvP, they need burst and they don’t have it and world skills only partially deliver on this.

In PvP, with Sorc having no heavy bursts and target players having strong self healing available, getting a target down to a low enough health for Static to do any consistent numbers isn’t as easy as you’re saying. Out of, let’s say, 5 or 6 instances of damage per GCD Static might proc once, and that’s only once their health hit gets lowered.

If Sorcs had a class skill like Merciless that scaled really high and could thereby chunk a players health in one burst and then allow Static to kick in and help the Sorc keep the targets health lower and keep applying the passive, then maybe you’d have a point but that’s not the case and no world skill is that strong either.

For comparison, Burning Light, for example, will proc FAR more consistently over the course of combat and do more damage than Static will since it can apply persistently, not just when targets are lower health.

Sorcs cannot realistically proc Static more than once per second, even though the passive cooldown is only 0.3s because Sorcs don’t have access to any skills that apply damage in fractional increments. Dealing multiple instances of damage all at the same time does not count each instance toward the passive.

Further, you have the health barrier to consider so the realistic amount of proc that can happen is far less than you’re thinking and testing shows that.

Even at relatively high health treshold like 85% hp 5 instances of damage with 20% proc chance each isnt a low proc rate and its basically a guarantee at even lower health tresholds.

But as you say if ''Sorcs cannot realistically proc Static more than once per second, even though the passive cooldown is only 0.3s because Sorcs don’t have access to any skills that apply damage in fractional increments. Dealing multiple instances of damage all at the same time does not count each instance toward the passive. '' than you wouldnt mind if the passive was adjusted to proc only once per second with battle spirit active so i have no idea why you are trying to argue with me when you agree with me.

Btw the skill you are looking for is BA ...

That’s not how this passive works.

If one deals 5 simultaneous instances of damage to a target they do not get a 20% chance EACH to proc. All 5 would constitute one chance and against a target that has 85% health that would be one 20% chance (5% base plus 15%, 1% for each missing percent of target health).

In order to get 5 chances to apply Static a Sorc would need to apply damage 5 separate times (not just 5 instances) which would mean 5 GCD or 5 seconds. Which takes me back to my original point that over 5 to 6 applications of damage (aka 5 or 6 seconds) this passive would likely proc once.

That’s nowhere near a guarantee proc chance. Plus, the damage doesn’t scale that awful high either, not given how limited the proc chance is.

Further, it’s only the BASE chance that’s 5%, it’s not 5% per missing health. It’s 5% plus 1% per missing health.

There is zero scenario where this passive has a 55%chance to apply damage against a target that has 90% health; that’s just factually wrong and it seems people might be confused as to how this passive actually works.

Now, yes; BA does apply at 0.3 increments, however, that’s the only available skill that aligns with the adjusted cooldown of Static and it’s not readily spammable, requiring a charge and it doesn’t scale anywhere near the damage of, say, Merciless. It’s not a burst and a full charge takes 1.3 seconds to fully execute, which, is why in PvP it’s not a commonly used skill. It’s just too slow and doesn’t deal enough damage in PvP to really be viable. So, again, on paper or just looking at tool tip, yes, one might think BA is a good skill to synergize with Static in PvP but the problem is neither scale to any strong damage value and none align with the strong burst damage PvP demands so there’s not really a good use case for the combo.

I PvP every day and I’ve rarely ever seen BA and I can understand why. It’s just not a good skill and I don’t think anyone is going to slot it just to try and proc Static. BA actually adds longer pacing potential to Static due to the charge full charge up factor so if anything BA holds this passive back even more.

Of course you can proc it more than once with a single skill, no its not hard and no it doesnt take a single gcd per proc.

Here is a single BA proccing it 3 times



Here is a single RS doing the same




Here is me proccing it 4 times a second with nothing but a la and a skill. Keep in mind that proccing it 4 times a sec should be hard because of the 0.3 sec cd but again, no it isnt because nobody deals all their damage in 0.3 sec intervals anyway, trying to fit all your damage in that little time bubble would actually be harder than not proccing it multiple times.




So yes i agree with you, proccing this passive more than once a second shouldnt be a thing with battle spirit active and i really hope Zos takes notice and adjusts it accordingly ...

You’re not proccing it 3 or 4 times per second, you’re proccing it 3 or 4 times per skill.

In the case of BA, yes, that is the only skill where 3 out of the 4 procs can occur within one second, the 4th would spill into the following second. But there’s a caveat here with BA in that in order to do this you have to have at least 3 or 4 charges, otherwise one cannot do this. BA isn’t a spammable skill so it’s not accurate to say that a Sorc could just use this skill as a means to excessively proc the passive in PvP.

Rapid Strikes takes more than a second to complete and more than 0.3 per strike to deliver so, yes, while it can proc multiple occurrences of the passive, it’s not doing so in less than a second it’s doing so per application which goes to pacing.

Lastly, using the skills on a low health target dummy isn’t reflective of actual PvP combat because you can whittle the health down and ensure a high proc chance which ignores the entire duration of wearing the health down, when the passive wasn’t proccing.

Get into a duel or any PvP venue and we won’t see these same results so when I say testing doesn’t show what your complaint is about that’s what I mean. Dummy parsing only shows that multiple instances of the passive can occur, which we all know, what it doesn’t show is the multiple instances happening collectively in under one second or in a PvP situation.

The only skill that can proc in less than a second is BA but for the charge up pacing reasons I mentioned before it’s not a reliable source of consistent proc which means it’s definitely not broken or in need of a nerf.

Just a friendly query. Are you certain that Bound Armaments is rarely used and that it's bad? Whenever I see any video or stream played as Sorc, they will have Bound Armaments and use it all the time. I dislike that skill, because it does not synergize with Overload centric statregies, but it seems to deal more damage for me than Crystal Fragments with all its Sundered procs.

• Probably the easiest to dodge ability in the game = Daggers have a 0.25s delay; 1m range is 0.6s~1.35s and 28m is 1.1s~1.85s. Grim Focus is 0.35s~1.1s, and Insta Frag is 0.53~1.08s. Since the damage is spread out, it not only reduces burst, but it makes it highly telegraphed to dodge all or at least half of the ability.
• It has a 10s timer = Nearly useless for melee builds on a Sorc that frequently finds itself weaving in and out of combat to reset with Streak/Dark Deal. It's much better for a ranged build, but then you're getting into that massive delay I discussed above.

NxJoeyD wrote: »

The same thing goes for the Burning status effect, it’s going to apply its first tick 1s after a cast of Crushing Shock so there’s always going to be that one second buffer between the instances.