Concerns About ESO’s Future Direction and Solo Player Experience

ZOS_GregoryV · May 6

Greetings all,

After removing a handful of comments, we would like to ask that all members of the community please be sure to keep all posts stay on topic, remain civil and constructive, while also staying within the guidelines of the Community Rules.

Regards,
-Greg-

shadoza · May 6

sleepy_worm wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

The group finder doesn't function because players don't use it.

This is not true. Group Finder groups for trials regularly fill. Group Finder groups for Night Market fill within 60 seconds.

shadoza wrote: »

The Night Market is forced group content. (Forced because it is NOT doable solo.)

This is also not true. You can teleport to someone in a busy instance if you want to zerg. Unless you meant multi-player content, as you would be following around other players. If you meant multi-player content, I agree that is what it is.

shadoza wrote: »

Without the CP points and the dungeon gears, a player does not have a chance at participating.

And this is absolutely not true. I have been playing with CP 100 or level 12 characters quite often. They are very clearly participating.

Totally disagree with your points. I think they are very selective.

The Group Finder does not function. Perhaps in your world it does but not on the server on which I play. What server do you claim it works on?

The Night Market IS forced group content. The development team pointed out that they designed it for groups with the intent of "encouraging" group play. As I stated, it is FORCED because it cannot be done solo.

No. My friends and I have tried various overland, non-capper builds. If a player does not have CP close to cap and dungeon gear they are not going to live long. Maybe they can survive if they follow a large group and pretend to participate. But they will not be working the Night Market without CP and dungeon gear. (include dungeon pots with gear)

The reality is that there is a huge gap between players that dungeon and players that don't. That gap is caused by power creeps that are generated by dungeon gear, pots, special items. It appears to be self-perpetuating. At some point, if the solo players (non dungeon) do not get access to the same content as those with the power-creep, there will be such a divide that the development team will be forced to choose to whom to cater. Then, the game will die suddenly. I've seen it happen. I have experienced such. I have been on both sides of that creep and see it for what it is.

It is my position that if we, as players and developers, continue to ignore this issue and sweep it aside using excuses it will only get worse. At the end, when we are all forced to see it, it will be too late to recover. (if you don't agree, that is fine, but don't say it isn't happening where it is. Denial helps no one.)

spartaxoxo · May 6

shadoza wrote: »

The Group Finder does not function. Perhaps in your world it does but not on the server on which I play. What server do you claim it works on?

What do you mean by this?

Skjaldbjorn · May 6

shadoza wrote: »

sleepy_worm wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

The group finder doesn't function because players don't use it.

This is not true. Group Finder groups for trials regularly fill. Group Finder groups for Night Market fill within 60 seconds.

shadoza wrote: »

The Night Market is forced group content. (Forced because it is NOT doable solo.)

This is also not true. You can teleport to someone in a busy instance if you want to zerg. Unless you meant multi-player content, as you would be following around other players. If you meant multi-player content, I agree that is what it is.

shadoza wrote: »

Without the CP points and the dungeon gears, a player does not have a chance at participating.

And this is absolutely not true. I have been playing with CP 100 or level 12 characters quite often. They are very clearly participating.

Totally disagree with your points. I think they are very selective.

The Group Finder does not function. Perhaps in your world it does but not on the server on which I play. What server do you claim it works on?

The Night Market IS forced group content. The development team pointed out that they designed it for groups with the intent of "encouraging" group play. As I stated, it is FORCED because it cannot be done solo.

No. My friends and I have tried various overland, non-capper builds. If a player does not have CP close to cap and dungeon gear they are not going to live long. Maybe they can survive if they follow a large group and pretend to participate. But they will not be working the Night Market without CP and dungeon gear. (include dungeon pots with gear)

The reality is that there is a huge gap between players that dungeon and players that don't. That gap is caused by power creeps that are generated by dungeon gear, pots, special items. It appears to be self-perpetuating. At some point, if the solo players (non dungeon) do not get access to the same content as those with the power-creep, there will be such a divide that the development team will be forced to choose to whom to cater. Then, the game will die suddenly. I've seen it happen. I have experienced such. I have been on both sides of that creep and see it for what it is.

It is my position that if we, as players and developers, continue to ignore this issue and sweep it aside using excuses it will only get worse. At the end, when we are all forced to see it, it will be too late to recover. (if you don't agree, that is fine, but don't say it isn't happening where it is. Denial helps no one.)

I could pick up an Arcanist, equip them with Deadly (purchaseable), Tide-Born (crafted) and a Maelstrom 2h, along with Velothi, and perform just fine in the Night Market. I could solo packs the same as I do on any other toon. I could do at least reasonable damage in a group setting there. This logic just falls flat. Yes, it is entirely plausible someone running a weak class/build with low quality gear and a lack of understanding of how the game functions will struggle, sure. That makes sense.

Part of the issue with ESO's community is how seriously people take the "play how you want" mantra. Yes, you *can* in theory do whatever you want. That won't make it strong, competitive or effective for specific branches of content. Once you reach ~1600 CP, you can unlock all the meaningful nodes. Being CP cap does next to nothing for you.

While it's true that there are *massive* gaps in the ESO community, the is largely self-created. If people refuse to adapt to meta shifts, refuse to run group content, refuse to engage with huge swathes of the content within the game to improve themselves and work on themselves, yes. They will fall behind and stay behind.

I have played nearly every MMO that has released since I started in EverQuest. That is how literally every MMO works. Most of the "power creep" in ESO trends toward classes moreso than gear sets. Metas are often defined by classes, and in some cases, which sets/items work best on which classes. However, ESO's long-standing issue since I began playing around Morrowind is the ghastly lack of class balance and how poorly the dev teams over the years have addressed/approached that.

This new dev team seems to have the right idea, so it's time to let them cook.

Sephyr · May 6

shadoza wrote: »

sleepy_worm wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

The group finder doesn't function because players don't use it.

This is not true. Group Finder groups for trials regularly fill. Group Finder groups for Night Market fill within 60 seconds.

shadoza wrote: »

The Night Market is forced group content. (Forced because it is NOT doable solo.)

This is also not true. You can teleport to someone in a busy instance if you want to zerg. Unless you meant multi-player content, as you would be following around other players. If you meant multi-player content, I agree that is what it is.

shadoza wrote: »

Without the CP points and the dungeon gears, a player does not have a chance at participating.

And this is absolutely not true. I have been playing with CP 100 or level 12 characters quite often. They are very clearly participating.

Totally disagree with your points. I think they are very selective.

The Group Finder does not function. Perhaps in your world it does but not on the server on which I play. What server do you claim it works on?

If it's not working on your platform, I highly suggest putting in a bug report.

jad11mumbler · May 6

shadoza wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Athory wrote: »

Does ZoS have plans to turn ESO into something like a Dark Souls-style game?

Do they have any plan to push solo players out of the game?

To answer the core questions asked:

Q: Does ZoS have plans to turn ESO into something like a Dark Souls-style game?
A: No.

Q:Do they have any plan to push solo players out of the game?
A: No.

Just following up here generally. We hear the feedback from solo players about the Night Market content. We want to follow up with just few things.

We have no intention of pushing solo players out of the game. However, we started this year off by noting that we were going to try some new things. Night Market is one of them. While we always provide group players with trials, we also wanted to try something different. This was not to alienate solo players, but rather to add a new way to play. That being said, we do hear the feedback and have passed that on our teams for future consideration, especially for when Night Market comes back later in the year. Remember, part of the ethos of this event is to add to it over time.

As several have noted in this thread as well, we have a roadmap that is publicly available. The point of the roadmap is to showcase the content we have coming throughout the year. As is noted on the roadmap and current PTS testing, we have plenty of solo friendly content as well. Thieves Guild and Sheogorath Questlines, Favors system, Rumors system, Two Solo Dungeons, Sage's Vault, and the list can keep going. And that is all on top of existing content. We also understand that not every piece of content will be for everyone, and that is okay.

We know this may come off as a contentious statement, but it does bear repeating. While we are an Elder Scrolls game, we are also an MMO. Storytelling and the heart of solo adventure will always be an important part of ESO. However, some of our event/ event zone content will be focused on encouraging group play. It is the nature of the genre. Additionally, we know just like there are players who come for solo content, there are also players who come for group content and challenging group content. So we want to make sure we are providing new things for them as well.

We'll close with this. Last year, we saw many threads throughout the year asking us to address content and find new ways of renewing the gameplay experience, both in variety and challenge. We are in the first passes of this now with items like Night Market going live. But we will have content throughout the year to address both solo and group play within the community. The feedback is helpful to steer us on the right track. So thanks to everyone, both solo players and group players, who have given their constructive feedback regarding the Night Market. The team is taking a look at what can be done during this current running and what can be adjusted for the next run of the Night Market.

I just want to remind everyone, anyone, that MMO does NOT mean grouping. It never meant grouping. It meant shared map. It meant socializing. Using the term Massive Multi-player Online to provide an excuse to push grouping and guilds is trying too hard to validate attempting to change the way we play.

And outside of dungeons, some which can be done solo with a solo mode coming soon, and trial content, there is NOTHING that can be done specifically as a large group.

My guilds would run world boss events but those got boring fast, especially when many can be done solo.

Thats all there is for group PvE large group content.

Trials and "make your own overland event."
ESO features heaps of solo content, thats 80% of the game.

But has always featured very little for group play, with trials being the only dedicated group event limited at 12.

They add ONE THING for a more casual group approach...

And y'all won't let it stand.

FlameDark · May 6

I'm sorry but this whole thread is very... Over dramatic? Anyone can see that solo play is not going away. So I'm just going to make a few (lol it turned into an essay as I was working on it) obvious points and leave it at that.

Firstly, the Night Marker to me is just a giant 4 man dungeon with extra steps, and a bonus trial at the end. That is all. If you never grouped with anyone before then can I assume you never did any of the trials or dungeons either, and never was against them existing in the game? So why is this suddenly so different? Because it's a different model of 4 man dungeons and trials then what you're used to? Yeah they made the dungeon/trial more interesting with mini games and extra steps to complete it. But it's no less a dungeon/trial. Or maybe it was because they said you could solo it? Well technically you can solo vet dungeons too, but not many people can do that either. But there wasn't anything wrong with that before? Because you have to use the group finder (which has worked perfectly for me during the event I might add). Well you have to que for PUG dungeons and trials too, so not sure why that is a bother now. Is it because there are cosmetic rewards and furnishings locked behind the content? Well there's also all that locked behind your regular dungeon group content too. I think you're looking at the night market all wrong. It is not a story dlc or chapter. It's two DLC dungeon expansions with a bonus trial given to us at once and packaged as an event. That's all it is. We are not getting any new dlc dungeons in the future. This is it. The night market IS that content. I do believe we're getting one single lonely new trial coming up in the coming year, but not any dungeons.

So what about solo play disappearing? Actually I think the night market balances out the fact that dungeons are getting a solo mode added. In fact, the exact opposite of your claim is true. Previous group content is becoming solo, increasing the amount of solo content in the game vs group content. Plus new story quests are coming up too. So easily the idea that solo play is disappearing is wildly inaccurate and doom saying. I believe there should be content for everyone. Including those that want group activities. They are not second class citizens that should be forced to wait until the only trial they're getting comes out. While solo play is still being rained down on those that only want that content. If you restrict yourself to only one type of activity in the game, then yes you will be restricting yourself to parts of the game. Having content you might not like or want to do is not a bad thing. More variety is healthy. What would the game look like if there was no group content or PvP, for instance? Pretty bland. Don't get me wrong, I prefer solo play. I do dungeons because I want all the achievements. That's all. But I'm not going to deny the group content/ harder content lovers even a crumb of new updates because it isn't my cup of tea. I'm fact I would love to see even more variety of stuff in the game. Even if I personally would never do it. Let's bring in more group content, more PvP options, and more options in general to do. You don't have to do everything in the game. You do realize that?

After completing most of the night market activities, here's my take. I actually enjoyed the fights in the night market. They were interesting. Challenging. Actually made me feel like I accomplished something when I beat them. It was fun trying to figure out the mechs with people that also had no idea what to do, and then beating it. Tbh the hardest part of the trial is just organizing everyone for the baton pass mechanic, not the actual boss fight. I'm just super angry at the bugs and glitches that never should have left pts. But that's a different topic that I will rage and rant on... But the actual battles, and fights themselves have been great. I've puged every single dungeon, and the mechs were not so outlandishly difficult to figure out, that someone with no dungeon experience would be hopeless doing it. It can be very intimidating for someone not used to dungeons to jump in and try them out. Which is why I would like to advocate a "normal" mode. The mode doesn't even need any rewards or titles, it just to help people get an idea of the mechs and build confidence before trying it on the current difficulty. If that is a reason some people are hesitant to give it a try.

My final thoughts for my essay (so sorry) is that solo content and group content are both integral parts to an MMO. They both coexist and we should be helping each other push for better content for each other. Bridge the gap and have a more healthier community. It is okay to be a solo player and have group content you'll never do. It is okay to be a group content lover and never once touching solo content. But it's also even better to help each other. So let's be happy for the group content people for getting an amazing update (after they fix the bloody bugs of course!). Look forward to everything coming out for the solo crowd, and learn to ask for help and maybe step out of your comfort zone every once in awhile to experience ESO in every aspect.

jad11mumbler · May 6

shadoza wrote: »

sleepy_worm wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

The group finder doesn't function because players don't use it.

This is not true. Group Finder groups for trials regularly fill. Group Finder groups for Night Market fill within 60 seconds.

shadoza wrote: »

The Night Market is forced group content. (Forced because it is NOT doable solo.)

This is also not true. You can teleport to someone in a busy instance if you want to zerg. Unless you meant multi-player content, as you would be following around other players. If you meant multi-player content, I agree that is what it is.

shadoza wrote: »

Without the CP points and the dungeon gears, a player does not have a chance at participating.

And this is absolutely not true. I have been playing with CP 100 or level 12 characters quite often. They are very clearly participating.

Totally disagree with your points. I think they are very selective.

The Group Finder does not function. Perhaps in your world it does but not on the server on which I play. What server do you claim it works on?

The Night Market IS forced group content. The development team pointed out that they designed it for groups with the intent of "encouraging" group play. As I stated, it is FORCED because it cannot be done solo.

No. My friends and I have tried various overland, non-capper builds. If a player does not have CP close to cap and dungeon gear they are not going to live long.

The reality is that there is a huge gap between players that dungeon and players that don't. That gap is caused by power creeps that are generated by dungeon gear, pots, special items. It appears to be self-perpetuating. At some point, if the solo players (non dungeon) do not get access to the same content as those with the power-creep, there will be such a divide that the development team will be forced to choose to whom to cater. Then, the game will die suddenly. I've seen it happen. I have experienced such. I have been on both sides of that creep and see it for what it is.

It is my position that if we, as players and developers, continue to ignore this issue and sweep it aside using excuses it will only get worse. At the end, when we are all forced to see it, it will be too late to recover. (if you don't agree, that is fine, but don't say it isn't happening where it is. Denial helps no one.)

Group finder works fine on PCNA.

Not sure why on your server it doesn't.

You keep talking about "Dungeon gear" when some of the best gear around is crafted.

No mention on player skill level, when knowing your build, rotation, weaving, etc is far more important than what gear you're wearing.

"Dungeon players" understand that.

There are no "Special items". Pots are the sams as any other.

ZoS has even gone and made many monster sets available to players who don't do dungeons.

CP "caps" around 1200 for whats important.
Anything above that doesn't matter, just makes it easier to change CP.
Getting to 1200 is no longer as difficult as it used to be but is still a far off goal for some, regardless even at lower CP players can be effective.

You're pushing a lot of it onto "Gear, pots, "Special items"" when the truth is many "Dungeon players" are just more experienced and more skilled since those are more important in that content.

A very skilled player in white gear can, and has, outperformed bad players with the "best in slot" meta builds. Theres video evidence of that.

ESO_player123 · May 6

shadoza wrote: »

sleepy_worm wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

The group finder doesn't function because players don't use it.

This is not true. Group Finder groups for trials regularly fill. Group Finder groups for Night Market fill within 60 seconds.

shadoza wrote: »

The Night Market is forced group content. (Forced because it is NOT doable solo.)

This is also not true. You can teleport to someone in a busy instance if you want to zerg. Unless you meant multi-player content, as you would be following around other players. If you meant multi-player content, I agree that is what it is.

shadoza wrote: »

Without the CP points and the dungeon gears, a player does not have a chance at participating.

And this is absolutely not true. I have been playing with CP 100 or level 12 characters quite often. They are very clearly participating.

Totally disagree with your points. I think they are very selective.

The Group Finder does not function. Perhaps in your world it does but not on the server on which I play. What server do you claim it works on?

This is how GF for NM looked like on PCNA 5-10 min ago:

If you are on a console, that might be a different story. Though I've seen people from some console servers saying that GF has many listing there too.

TheGamerSeal · May 6

This does sing a similar note to my personal concerns.

First of all, it is extremely unlikely that ZeniMax Online Studios has plans to push a massive section of their community out of the game. Night Market has been a prime example of content not designed with the community-at-large in mind, but I think it's safe to say that ZOS isn't going to alienate the solo community since it will mean a MASSIVE drop in profits.

Where this thread parallels with my own concerns is the concept of emotional "teabagging". The most prominent counter-argument I see in my own threads is "if you don't like it, don't play it" or "find another game"; while this does seem like a powerful shutdown, it actually ignores the massive time and money investments that some players have put towards this game. It's very easy to stop playing if you probably only paid the "entry fee" - that is, buying the game - and maybe paid for a few expansions along the way, but there are players who have spent the equivalent of $1,000 or more over the course of their time in this game.

Others might say that the game has never been better than it has right now, since all content is free; however, the caveat there is that "free content" comes with a different kind of price: quality. Night Market is a prime example of "free content" that is seriously lacking in the depth and quality that drew me to the game five years ago. I am still paying for this game via a continued ESO+ subscription and premium battle pass purchases; there is no reason the quality should start dropping now that the content itself doesn't have a monetary price tag.

dcrush · May 6

shadoza wrote: »

sleepy_worm wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

The group finder doesn't function because players don't use it.

This is not true. Group Finder groups for trials regularly fill. Group Finder groups for Night Market fill within 60 seconds.

shadoza wrote: »

The Night Market is forced group content. (Forced because it is NOT doable solo.)

This is also not true. You can teleport to someone in a busy instance if you want to zerg. Unless you meant multi-player content, as you would be following around other players. If you meant multi-player content, I agree that is what it is.

shadoza wrote: »

Without the CP points and the dungeon gears, a player does not have a chance at participating.

And this is absolutely not true. I have been playing with CP 100 or level 12 characters quite often. They are very clearly participating.

If a player does not have CP close to cap and dungeon gear they are not going to live long. Maybe they can survive if they follow a large group and pretend to participate. But they will not be working the Night Market without CP and dungeon gear. (include dungeon pots with gear)

The reality is that there is a huge gap between players that dungeon and players that don't. That gap is caused by power creeps that are generated by dungeon gear, pots, special items.

This is simply not true. I actually started a new account because I wanted loot from all factions. Did the wailing prison intro quest and went straight into the NM at level 3. No CP. I followed groups around, spammed shields, dodge rolled aoes, revived players, got some damage in and looted bosses to get complete gear sets. Right now my character is level 13, decked out in Briarheart and Plague Doctor gear from the event and has all the house wings unlocked. It’s really not so much a question of gear and level but more knowing what to do. Did I die a lot? Absolutely. But dying is not failure. It’s only a failure if the skirmish or boss resets because a whole group wiped.

There’s also no such thing as “dungeon pots”.

peacenote · May 6

Athory wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom
Does ZoS have plans to turn ESO into something like a Dark Souls-style game?

Do they have any plan to push solo players out of the game?

If yes, please tell us, because I will definitely stop playing ESO. I refuse to keep playing and paying for ESO Plus if this is the direction the game is going. I wouldn’t like that and I don’t want that, so is there any plan from ZoS to push solo players out?

We are getting overland difficulty, and that is completely fine because we will have the option to choose it. But will future releases and seasons all be like this, purely increased difficulty everywhere?

Please be honest. Is there any plan to push solo players out?

edit:
And please don’t respond with something like: “We will add more group content to the game,” because that is, without question, welcome. What I want to know is whether solo players will once again be excluded from participating in these “events,” or if they will still be able, once again, to take part as solo players.
I’m thrilled and excited about the new overland difficulty, and I genuinely want to replay the entire story again with some real challenge, not this easy mode we’ve had for years.

But as a player, I also have an event running that I could be doing… but I simply refuse to be used by you, ZOS. I refuse to be turned into “event fodder” just so others can participate. I can’t handle this feeling.
I never understood why teabagging was banned, but now I do. Because this is exactly how I feel right now. You, ZOS, are teabagging me with this event. Either I go as “event fodder”, or I don’t go at all.

The emotional meaning behind teabagging in games is:
being disrespected

being humiliated

being forced into a submissive role

being used for someone else’s benefit

having my agency removed

And that’s exactly what I see from ZOS right now: "I’m dominating you, you have no choice, and I’m rubbing it in your face."

Hi. Two things.

First, if this is a reaction to the Night Market, please be aware that the Night Market replaced new dungeons this year. This content (although whether it actually fulfills the same niche as a dungeon is a whole other topic) was experimental content aimed at people who like dungeons and trials, possibly with the hope to appeal to a slightly broader audience because it's new and there is a subset of content that's achievable with less than four players. Some quests can even be solo'ed, especially if you have NB and can sneak around. But ask yourself... would you have posted this if two new dungeons were released instead of the Night Market? I'm guessing not. So, no need to fret. Treat this content the same as you would have treated any newly released dungeons this year, however that may be (do you try them, ignore them, etc) and do not read anything deeper into it as far as ZOS's intentions for the future of solo players. It has nothing to do with that. They simply put some resources that normally produce dungeons and pivoted them to producing this content.

Second, you seem to be conflating difficult content with group content. I'm not 100% sure where you stand (although I can guess based on context) but just keep in mind that solo content DOES NOT EQUAL easy content, necessarily. Arenas, which are forced solo content to the point that even companions aren't welcome, are some of the most difficult content in the game. While I personally dislike labels, because often people (including myself), like multiple kinds of content, a discussion about group vs. solo is different than a discussion about "casuals" vs. "end gamers." Preferring less challenging content (or content without any combat) does not necessarily mean you also prefer playing solo, or vice versa. For example, even if the quest is as easy as easy can be, I prefer playing with friends, and don't quest solo. I enjoy both challenging content and easy content, depending on my mood, but because I like to play with friends, I rarely do arena runs, even though I spend a lot of time in dungeons and trials.

Literally on the roadmap for this year are solo dungeons which, presumably, are catering to solo players. I know I won't spend any time with them unless they have at least a duo option, like IA.

I'll also point out that Dark Souls is primarily a single player game, so it's an odd game to cite if your concern is group content over solo content, although it would make more sense if you're more concerned about content difficulty.

Anyway, you definitely have nothing to worry about regarding being pushed out of the game because ZOS is only going to produce content going forward that will be outside of your wheelhouse going forward. The roadmap clearly illustrates that this is not going to be the case. Whether they officially answer your question in this thread or not. However, I'd also like to point out that it's not very reasonable to expect ALL content released to cater to your playstyle, either. Do you really begrudge players who enjoy dungeons an event that is catered to their preferred level of difficulty and playstyle, when they didn't even get new dungeons this year? All we're getting is this event, and it may not even stick around as permanent content. Does this ONE thing that players who like dungeons are getting really bother you so much that it makes you feel like ZOS is teabagging you???

BardokRedSnow · May 6

Theres so many people participating that me n my duo were able to pug the trial and eventually after the third attempt succeed. The group lead was doing heavy lifting with the calls and coordination for sure, was impressive. Even after a handful of troublesome members got weeded out we still found plenty of replacement dps to take their spots, all because of the groupfinder.

That shows there's a ton of players that got through the majority of the content. The people who say its impossible, or NM is unpopular etc, clearly they are coping and in the minority. It is popping off, even still. Just finished the night running a group of 12 around the districts just to farm favor, our group plus another 12 man.

barney2525 · May 6

Koshka wrote: »

Deserrick wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

some of our event/ event zone content will be focused on encouraging group play

This content does not encourage group play, it enforces group play.

Encouraging involves inspiring, which can be done through providing benefits. Enforcing involves force, which can be pushing or by removing other options.

To give an example, consider Heresy of Ignorance. Strange Obelisks are scattered across the map, and you need to disrupt 3 of them and kill the boss. When in a group, you get credit for every Strange Obelisk any member of your group disrupts. This encourages group play because the quest is done more quickly in a group. If 3 Strange Obelisks had to be disrupted within 1 minute, it would be unfeasible for a solo player to do it, and thus this would enforce group play.

Likewise, Night Market does not encourage group play to gain the benefits of faster and smoother progress, it enforces group play by making progress unfeasible for solo play.

You can still participate and do some stuff solo, even without fighting. I tested it myself for fun, a thief character can do races, loot hidden chests/heavy sacks (the ones that are counting towards pursuit) and all these "find missing persons/relics/etc" things. And of course, the big prize - Night's Den house - is unlocked automatically. You can also opportunistically join any boss fights and skirmishes.
That is actually more solo content compared to a typical Q1 dlc dungeon pack.

Can you reach 5000 reputation solo ?
We don't get credit for 1000 or 2000 or 3000. It's 5000 or you get Nothing.

Skjaldbjorn · May 6

barney2525 wrote: »

Koshka wrote: »

Deserrick wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

some of our event/ event zone content will be focused on encouraging group play

This content does not encourage group play, it enforces group play.

Encouraging involves inspiring, which can be done through providing benefits. Enforcing involves force, which can be pushing or by removing other options.

To give an example, consider Heresy of Ignorance. Strange Obelisks are scattered across the map, and you need to disrupt 3 of them and kill the boss. When in a group, you get credit for every Strange Obelisk any member of your group disrupts. This encourages group play because the quest is done more quickly in a group. If 3 Strange Obelisks had to be disrupted within 1 minute, it would be unfeasible for a solo player to do it, and thus this would enforce group play.

Likewise, Night Market does not encourage group play to gain the benefits of faster and smoother progress, it enforces group play by making progress unfeasible for solo play.

You can still participate and do some stuff solo, even without fighting. I tested it myself for fun, a thief character can do races, loot hidden chests/heavy sacks (the ones that are counting towards pursuit) and all these "find missing persons/relics/etc" things. And of course, the big prize - Night's Den house - is unlocked automatically. You can also opportunistically join any boss fights and skirmishes.
That is actually more solo content compared to a typical Q1 dlc dungeon pack.

Can you reach 5000 reputation solo ?
We don't get credit for 1000 or 2000 or 3000. It's 5000 or you get Nothing.

My friend is at like 8k after riding some zergs and doing the dailies each day solo.

sleepy_worm · May 6

I'm an officer in a guild intended for beginners. Trust me when I say beginners can do Night Market.

magnus01 · May 6

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Dungeons were always group content and this is what replaced dungeons this time around. The rest of the year is focused on solo content.

If you're okay with grouping for dungeons then I don't understand what's the big deal about using group finder for night market.

Except the Night Market will return 2 more times this year as an event model and if this is the model taken that 3 events in a year people that don't like the trial format wont be able to play.
It also has 2 dung and a trial in it already so the overland portion has ZERO reason to be like it is other then team up in a group of 12 or get owned.

Athory · May 6

peacenote wrote: »

"....

Athory wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom
Does ZoS have plans to turn ESO into something like a Dark Souls-style game?

Do they have any plan to push solo players out of the game?

If yes, please tell us, because I will definitely stop playing ESO. I refuse to keep playing and paying for ESO Plus if this is the direction the game is going. I wouldn’t like that and I don’t want that, so is there any plan from ZoS to push solo players out?

We are getting overland difficulty, and that is completely fine because we will have the option to choose it. But will future releases and seasons all be like this, purely increased difficulty everywhere?

Please be honest. Is there any plan to push solo players out?

edit:
And please don’t respond with something like: “We will add more group content to the game,” because that is, without question, welcome. What I want to know is whether solo players will once again be excluded from participating in these “events,” or if they will still be able, once again, to take part as solo players.
I’m thrilled and excited about the new overland difficulty, and I genuinely want to replay the entire story again with some real challenge, not this easy mode we’ve had for years.

But as a player, I also have an event running that I could be doing… but I simply refuse to be used by you, ZOS. I refuse to be turned into “event fodder” just so others can participate. I can’t handle this feeling.
I never understood why teabagging was banned, but now I do. Because this is exactly how I feel right now. You, ZOS, are teabagging me with this event. Either I go as “event fodder”, or I don’t go at all.

The emotional meaning behind teabagging in games is:
being disrespected

being humiliated

being forced into a submissive role

being used for someone else’s benefit

having my agency removed

And that’s exactly what I see from ZOS right now: "I’m dominating you, you have no choice, and I’m rubbing it in your face."

Hi. Two things.

First, if this is a reaction to the Night Market, please be aware that the Night Market replaced new dungeons this year. This content (although whether it actually fulfills the same niche as a dungeon is a whole other topic) was experimental content aimed at people who like dungeons and trials, possibly with the hope to appeal to a slightly broader audience because it's new and there is a subset of content that's achievable with less than four players. Some quests can even be solo'ed, especially if you have NB and can sneak around. But ask yourself... would you have posted this if two new dungeons were released instead of the Night Market? I'm guessing not. So, no need to fret. Treat this content the same as you would have treated any newly released dungeons this year, however that may be (do you try them, ignore them, etc) and do not read anything deeper into it as far as ZOS's intentions for the future of solo players. It has nothing to do with that. They simply put some resources that normally produce dungeons and pivoted them to producing this content.

Second, you seem to be conflating difficult content with group content. I'm not 100% sure where you stand (although I can guess based on context) but just keep in mind that solo content DOES NOT EQUAL easy content, necessarily. Arenas, which are forced solo content to the point that even companions aren't welcome, are some of the most difficult content in the game. While I personally dislike labels, because often people (including myself), like multiple kinds of content, a discussion about group vs. solo is different than a discussion about "casuals" vs. "end gamers." Preferring less challenging content (or content without any combat) does not necessarily mean you also prefer playing solo, or vice versa. For example, even if the quest is as easy as easy can be, I prefer playing with friends, and don't quest solo. I enjoy both challenging content and easy content, depending on my mood, but because I like to play with friends, I rarely do arena runs, even though I spend a lot of time in dungeons and trials.

Literally on the roadmap for this year are solo dungeons which, presumably, are catering to solo players. I know I won't spend any time with them unless they have at least a duo option, like IA.

I'll also point out that Dark Souls is primarily a single player game, so it's an odd game to cite if your concern is group content over solo content, although it would make more sense if you're more concerned about content difficulty.

Anyway, you definitely have nothing to worry about regarding being pushed out of the game because ZOS is only going to produce content going forward that will be outside of your wheelhouse going forward. The roadmap clearly illustrates that this is not going to be the case. Whether they officially answer your question in this thread or not. However, I'd also like to point out that it's not very reasonable to expect ALL content released to cater to your playstyle, either. Do you really begrudge players who enjoy dungeons an event that is catered to their preferred level of difficulty and playstyle, when they didn't even get new dungeons this year? All we're getting is this event, and it may not even stick around as permanent content. ...
Does this ONE thing that players who like dungeons are getting really bother you so much that it makes you feel like ZOS is teabagging you???

I’ve already addressed that and the other points, check my earlier comments.

Koshka · May 6

.

magnus01 wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Dungeons were always group content and this is what replaced dungeons this time around. The rest of the year is focused on solo content.

If you're okay with grouping for dungeons then I don't understand what's the big deal about using group finder for night market.

Except the Night Market will return 2 more times this year as an event model and if this is the model taken that 3 events in a year people that don't like the trial format wont be able to play.
It also has 2 dung and a trial in it already so the overland portion has ZERO reason to be like it is other then team up in a group of 12 or get owned.

Whitestrake's Mayhem is also coming back a few times per year, it's been like this for a while I think. Does that mean that ESO is turning into pvp mmo? Of course not, it's just for players convenience.
There are ways for an average player to participate, and it doesn't have to be a fully geared 12 man team. Yesterday I joined a random group, it filled relatively quickly and there were players of all playstyles: some trial arcs, a few heavy attack sorcs, a stam warden I think and other random builds. No one said anything bad about it and we cleared the zone in like 20 minutes. Tons of social guilds host events for everyone with no requirements other than showing up. If you choose to ignore these obvious ways to get the content done, it's your decision. It's like if I decided to play without a weapon and then started complaining that bosses are too hard.
Also, these "dungeons" are just 1 room with a boss, they are not like the regular dungeons.

Athory · May 6

@peacenote I’ll explain it one more time:

Dungeons are group content. And I love them.
(Okay… power creep basically removed the need for tanks/healers — different topic.)
Trials are group content. And I love them too.
This is why we love ESO. Until this [snip] Market release, this was the group content we had and we loved it. Right?
Could the game have more difficulty and more group content? Of course.
Example: public dungeons. They’re supposed to be group content, yet they’re a joke because they’re way too easy.
So far, we all agree. Right?
ESO needs more overland difficulty? ESO should’ve had this since release.
We’re finally getting it soon, good.
ESO is an MMO and should have group content. Obviously.
We already have it, but should we have more? Of course. We love it.
I love ESO’s group content, and I hate seeing people gatekeep others in Group Finder because of builds/DPS/etc.
(Different topic, but everyone knows this is 100% true.)
So… we agree on everything up to this point.
Let’s keep point 7 for another topic as well.

If we agree on everything, then of course the [snip] Market is welcome.
I actually love it, it’s new, it forces players to group up, nobody cares about your DPS/build/etc.

I even understand why ZOS did this. Maybe some of you don’t, but I do.

I see people gatekeeping others in Group Finder all the time.
That doesn’t happen in the [snip] Market.
I truly love that ZOS fixed that here, and I understand it better than many of you.
Because now nobody is gatekeeping anyone.
So why do it in Group Finder?
(But let’s leave that for another topic, I won’t argue about it no matter what you reply.)

So yes, we all love the [snip] Market. Of course we all have ideas, this could be better, that could be changed.
Everyone has something they’d improve.

But my problem with the Market is only one, and I’ve said it before:
What I hate is that ZoS made this event with a timeline, and if I want to participate, I must group with others.
And that’s exactly what I truly hate. I don’t really have a choice here, either group up or miss out. No event in ESO has been like this before. We’re talking about a timed event, not a trial or a dungeon, just an event.
They created a unique Hardcore‑only mode that forces players to group each other just to make it easier.
This [snip] Market, with this one Hardcore‑only mode, only becomes manageable if you group up.

ESO has always given me the option to choose my difficulty: Normal / Vet / Vet HM.

Let’s compare this with vRG HM (or other HM):
Why do you hand‑pick your team for vRG HM? To make it easier, correct? Makes perfect sense.
So why do you take any player into the [snip] Market? To make your Hardcore mode easier?? That’s 100% wrong. And this only proves this isn’t even real hardcore, it just forces players to group to feed off each other.

If you love Hardcore, if you truly want to play Hardcore, you should hand‑pick your team and NOT use random players to make your content easier. Casual/solo players are just being used to “feed” this Hardcore‑only mode. Nothing else.

You love the Hardcore nonsense they added, yet you take any player to make it easier? Why?
Why don’t we do that in vet trials/dungeons? Because there, you actually need people who can help you.
This isn’t the hardcore mode you all want in ESO. A 12 players group in almost any veteran trial is harder as this. Yet you exclude those same players from trials, and now you’re happy to group with them? Why? I’ll tell you why, just to serve your own needs. Nothing else. In trials, you have time; here, you don’t.

It’s wrong. Yet here "you" are, all happy with this [fake] hardcore mode, using other players to feed your needs.

I honestly can’t explain this any more clearly than I already have.

shadoza · May 6

dcrush wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

sleepy_worm wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

The group finder doesn't function because players don't use it.

This is not true. Group Finder groups for trials regularly fill. Group Finder groups for Night Market fill within 60 seconds.

shadoza wrote: »

The Night Market is forced group content. (Forced because it is NOT doable solo.)

This is also not true. You can teleport to someone in a busy instance if you want to zerg. Unless you meant multi-player content, as you would be following around other players. If you meant multi-player content, I agree that is what it is.

shadoza wrote: »

Without the CP points and the dungeon gears, a player does not have a chance at participating.

And this is absolutely not true. I have been playing with CP 100 or level 12 characters quite often. They are very clearly participating.

If a player does not have CP close to cap and dungeon gear they are not going to live long. Maybe they can survive if they follow a large group and pretend to participate. But they will not be working the Night Market without CP and dungeon gear. (include dungeon pots with gear)

The reality is that there is a huge gap between players that dungeon and players that don't. That gap is caused by power creeps that are generated by dungeon gear, pots, special items.

This is simply not true. I actually started a new account because I wanted loot from all factions. Did the wailing prison intro quest and went straight into the NM at level 3. No CP. I followed groups around, spammed shields, dodge rolled aoes, revived players, got some damage in and looted bosses to get complete gear sets. Right now my character is level 13, decked out in Briarheart and Plague Doctor gear from the event and has all the house wings unlocked. It’s really not so much a question of gear and level but more knowing what to do. Did I die a lot? Absolutely. But dying is not failure. It’s only a failure if the skirmish or boss resets because a whole group wiped.

There’s also no such thing as “dungeon pots”.

I think the key words there are "I followed groups around." You did not play the Night Market, you just picked up the leftovers. Which is what I meant when I said, "Maybe they can survive if they follow a large group and pretend to participate."

Play what ever way makes you feel good. I care not.
Denial does not make the issue go away. It just doesn't.

Muizer · May 6

Hmm my personal conclusion after 10 years of ESO is that I've been stuck being a solo player not because I don't want to group, but because I do not like the group content. And by that, I mean the formula not its execution.

I wonder if I'm alone in this and whether ZOS should think about that for a bit. I mean, fundamentally the solo content for the most part is almost a different genre than group content. Solo is, for the most part, a story driven adventure experience. Group content for the most part are combat obstacle courses that need to be rehearsed. Not the same thing at all.

So, there's really no reason to assume a-priori that people who like one will like the other. The conclusion that the process of 'grouping' is the big hurdle for solo players is anything but self-evident.

frogthroat · May 6

Athory wrote: »

the [snip] Market.

I think this is in a nutshell why you rub people the wrong way. It shows your attitude. I don't know why you keep editing the (Something) Market to the [snip] Market. (If it would be ZOS censoring you, the edit would be from an admin, not you.) Is writing the Night Market too difficult? No, it just shows your attitude.

Athory wrote: »

I actually love it, it’s new, it forces players to group up, nobody cares about your DPS/build/etc.

This makes your complaints even more baffling.

Athory wrote: »

What I hate is that ZoS made this event with a timeline, and if I want to participate, I must group with others.

You don't have to group. There's plenty to do solo. But this was marketed as group content. They said they were trying out something new. They are now trying out that "something new". And it is new. You can, of course, go to this group content solo if you like. Just like you can go to group dungeons and trials solo. But when going solo, the results may vary.

Athory wrote: »

ESO has always given me the option to choose my difficulty: Normal / Vet / Vet HM.

They wanted to try something new. So this is too new to you? You want it to follow the old formula and only call it new?

Athory wrote: »

Let’s compare this with vRG HM (or other HM):
Why do you hand‑pick your team for vRG HM? To make it easier, correct? Makes perfect sense.
So why do you take any player into the [snip] Market? To make your Hardcore mode easier?? That’s 100% wrong. And this only proves this isn’t even real hardcore, it just forces players to group to feed off each other.

If you love Hardcore, if you truly want to play Hardcore, you should hand‑pick your team and NOT use random players to make your content easier. Casual/solo players are just being used to “feed” this Hardcore‑only mode. Nothing else.

Sorry, where do I find this hardcore content in the Night Market? I must have missed it.

The mechanics are quite simple and nothing is as tough as vRG HM bosses so you don't need minmaxing or dps checks. The main difficulty comes from many, many ads and for those more people, no matter the skill level, makes it easier.

This makes both the casual player with overland sets and a meta +150k dps trial trifecta player equally needed. That's why even casuals are welcome. I have no idea why you think this is a bad thing in group content.

But thanks for explaining to me I am being used when I play the Night Market solo and join some on-going fights. I didn't know I was having fun wrong. I'm just happy I can do some things solo in this group content, and can join fights with others if I so choose. I had no idea I was being used.

Koshka · May 6

Athory wrote: »

@peacenote I’ll explain it one more time:
Dungeons are group content. And I love them.
(Okay… power creep basically removed the need for tanks/healers — different topic.)

Trials are group content. And I love them too.
This is why we love ESO. Until this [snip] Market release, this was the group content we had and we loved it. Right?

Could the game have more difficulty and more group content? Of course.
Example: public dungeons. They’re supposed to be group content, yet they’re a joke because they’re way too easy.

So far, we all agree. Right?

ESO needs more overland difficulty? ESO should’ve had this since release.
We’re finally getting it soon, good.

ESO is an MMO and should have group content. Obviously.
We already have it, but should we have more? Of course. We love it.

I love ESO’s group content, and I hate seeing people gatekeep others in Group Finder because of builds/DPS/etc.
(Different topic, but everyone knows this is 100% true.)

So… we agree on everything up to this point.
Let’s keep point 7 for another topic as well.

If we agree on everything, then of course the [snip] Market is welcome.
I actually love it, it’s new, it forces players to group up, nobody cares about your DPS/build/etc.

I even understand why ZOS did this. Maybe some of you don’t, but I do.
I see people gatekeeping others in Group Finder all the time.
That doesn’t happen in the [snip] Market.
I truly love that ZOS fixed that here, and I understand it better than many of you.
Because now nobody is gatekeeping anyone.
So why do it in Group Finder?
(But let’s leave that for another topic, I won’t argue about it no matter what you reply.)

So yes, we all love the [snip] Market. Of course we all have ideas, this could be better, that could be changed.
Everyone has something they’d improve.

But my problem with the Market is only one, and I’ve said it before:
What I hate is that ZoS made this event with a timeline, and if I want to participate, I must group with others.
And that’s exactly what I truly hate. I don’t really have a choice here, either group up or miss out. No event in ESO has been like this before. We’re talking about a timed event, not a trial or a dungeon, just an event.
They created a unique Hardcore‑only mode that forces players to group each other just to make it easier.
This [snip] Market, with this one Hardcore‑only mode, only becomes manageable if you group up.

ESO has always given me the option to choose my difficulty: Normal / Vet / Vet HM.

Let’s compare this with vRG HM (or other HM):
Why do you hand‑pick your team for vRG HM? To make it easier, correct? Makes perfect sense.
So why do you take any player into the [snip] Market? To make your Hardcore mode easier?? That’s 100% wrong. And this only proves this isn’t even real hardcore, it just forces players to group to feed off each other.

If you love Hardcore, if you truly want to play Hardcore, you should hand‑pick your team and NOT use random players to make your content easier. Casual/solo players are just being used to “feed” this Hardcore‑only mode. Nothing else.

You love the Hardcore nonsense they added, yet you take any player to make it easier? Why?
Why don’t we do that in vet trials/dungeons? Because there, you actually need people who can help you.
This isn’t the hardcore mode you all want in ESO. A 12 players group in almost any veteran trial is harder as this. Yet you exclude those same players from trials, and now you’re happy to group with them? Why? I’ll tell you why, just to serve your own needs. Nothing else. In trials, you have time; here, you don’t.

It’s wrong. Yet here "you" are, all happy with this [fake] hardcore mode, using other players to feed your needs.

I honestly can’t explain this any more clearly than I already have.

First of all, there were many events with group activities. Every chapter celebration, for example. If you have issues with NM, I seriously doubt you can solo a dragon or a harrowstorm, or a new dlc world boss. So what if you were not technically grouped, you still fought bosses with other players. Yes, there were delve quests, but NM also has soloable fetch dailies.
Or that wall event, Writhing fortress was not soloable.
Secondly, players who can do VRG hm absolutely don't need your help. Many of them would not be opposed to helping you, though, if you were a little bit more open minded.

shadoza wrote: »

dcrush wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

sleepy_worm wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

The group finder doesn't function because players don't use it.

This is not true. Group Finder groups for trials regularly fill. Group Finder groups for Night Market fill within 60 seconds.

shadoza wrote: »

The Night Market is forced group content. (Forced because it is NOT doable solo.)

This is also not true. You can teleport to someone in a busy instance if you want to zerg. Unless you meant multi-player content, as you would be following around other players. If you meant multi-player content, I agree that is what it is.

shadoza wrote: »

Without the CP points and the dungeon gears, a player does not have a chance at participating.

And this is absolutely not true. I have been playing with CP 100 or level 12 characters quite often. They are very clearly participating.

If a player does not have CP close to cap and dungeon gear they are not going to live long. Maybe they can survive if they follow a large group and pretend to participate. But they will not be working the Night Market without CP and dungeon gear. (include dungeon pots with gear)

The reality is that there is a huge gap between players that dungeon and players that don't. That gap is caused by power creeps that are generated by dungeon gear, pots, special items.

This is simply not true. I actually started a new account because I wanted loot from all factions. Did the wailing prison intro quest and went straight into the NM at level 3. No CP. I followed groups around, spammed shields, dodge rolled aoes, revived players, got some damage in and looted bosses to get complete gear sets. Right now my character is level 13, decked out in Briarheart and Plague Doctor gear from the event and has all the house wings unlocked. It’s really not so much a question of gear and level but more knowing what to do. Did I die a lot? Absolutely. But dying is not failure. It’s only a failure if the skirmish or boss resets because a whole group wiped.

There’s also no such thing as “dungeon pots”.

I think the key words there are "I followed groups around." You did not play the Night Market, you just picked up the leftovers. Which is what I meant when I said, "Maybe they can survive if they follow a large group and pretend to participate."

Play what ever way makes you feel good. I care not.
Denial does not make the issue go away. It just doesn't.

Why such a defeatist attitide? Most people wouldn't care if you have lower dps or whatever, and even a low level player can help by doing skirmish mechanics, rezzing, healing, drawing aggro, killing adds, bashing the boss etc.
I outdps pretty much everyone in random groups and I don't see other group members as "picking up my scraps" lol. It's just a fun group activity, not a world record run, no need to take it so seriously.

Athory · May 6

@frogthroat Absolutely nothing else to add. Thank you!

Firstmep · May 6

I will say they could improve instancing a bit so that more people can fit into one. If you are solo it's likely you end up in an instance where there are either few players or the one large group of players are concentrated around a single objective, which makes the rest of the market pretty empty. And if you not in that group it can be difficult to find where the zerg is at in that instance.
Yes the group finder can help with that, but it's not a perfect solution, they could allow quest sharing inside the same factions for example, so you don't have to look as much for a group with your daily objective

ADarklore · May 6

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

This is so quaint. And as a PvP main reads as so out-of-touch.

Basically the entire last decade of development was catered specifically to solo players, to the detriment of the game's health overall, I would say, with only meager scraps left for everyone else. Now the balance is being ever so slightly corrected.

Just accept that not all content is for you and that that is okay.

Considering that ZOS has the actual figures (aka the FACTS) about how many players are playing solo, and considering the poll that was done on the forums a few months ago, showed that the majority of players either play ESO completely solo or 'mostly' solo, how can you say 'to the detriment of the game's health' if they are providing content for the majority of players?

Also keep in mind that ZOS has said years ago that when ESO first came out, it completely failed as an MMO, and they realized that the majority of players wanted 'Skyrim with friends', so they created One Tamriel.

Yet even as a solo player, I could care less if they add more group content. I don't HAVE TO play every single aspect of the game. I already don't do PvP, and I don't do Trials, I haven't even touched IA. I'm not sure why players seem to think that they absolutely have to play every single part of the game when there are so many other things they can do solo. Shiny new stuff is cool and all, but we shouldn't forget about those who do enjoy group content or PvP. Solo players have received a lot of content over the past few years, and I am thankful for that, but I also don't want group players or PvP players to be neglected just to focus on players like me. If ESO is to survive, they need to offer all players something for their preferred type of gameplay- and I think the new team is working on that. The old team was growing too stale, too repetitive and too lazy IMO; the new team is not like that and I'm liking what they are doing. They are trying new things, some work, some don't, but at least they are mixing things up and I give them credit for that.

karthrag_inak · May 6

barney2525 wrote: »

Can you reach 5000 reputation solo ?
We don't get credit for 1000 or 2000 or 3000. It's 5000 or you get Nothing.

yes. Khajiit has over 8 k rep right now on 2 different accounts and less than 2k of it came from going in to NM in a premade group. the rest was solo and group-finder-built groups.

frogthroat · May 6

barney2525 wrote: »

Koshka wrote: »

Deserrick wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

some of our event/ event zone content will be focused on encouraging group play

This content does not encourage group play, it enforces group play.

Encouraging involves inspiring, which can be done through providing benefits. Enforcing involves force, which can be pushing or by removing other options.

To give an example, consider Heresy of Ignorance. Strange Obelisks are scattered across the map, and you need to disrupt 3 of them and kill the boss. When in a group, you get credit for every Strange Obelisk any member of your group disrupts. This encourages group play because the quest is done more quickly in a group. If 3 Strange Obelisks had to be disrupted within 1 minute, it would be unfeasible for a solo player to do it, and thus this would enforce group play.

Likewise, Night Market does not encourage group play to gain the benefits of faster and smoother progress, it enforces group play by making progress unfeasible for solo play.

You can still participate and do some stuff solo, even without fighting. I tested it myself for fun, a thief character can do races, loot hidden chests/heavy sacks (the ones that are counting towards pursuit) and all these "find missing persons/relics/etc" things. And of course, the big prize - Night's Den house - is unlocked automatically. You can also opportunistically join any boss fights and skirmishes.
That is actually more solo content compared to a typical Q1 dlc dungeon pack.

Can you reach 5000 reputation solo ?
We don't get credit for 1000 or 2000 or 3000. It's 5000 or you get Nothing.

Yes. Easily. I have been grouping mainly for the bosses and skirmishes. Otherwise mostly solo. My most favour comes from solo.

Each daily is 75.
Each zone quest is 40.
Each boss is between 5 and 15, or something like that, too little for me to care.

You get most of your favour from solo things.

I have a tad under 12k favour and I would say 10k is from solo stuff. A Brazen boss is worth the same as the blue ball you occasionally see when you kill a trash mob. You need to kill 8 Brazen bosses for it to be worth the same as one fetch quest.

BardokRedSnow · May 6

ADarklore wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

This is so quaint. And as a PvP main reads as so out-of-touch.

Basically the entire last decade of development was catered specifically to solo players, to the detriment of the game's health overall, I would say, with only meager scraps left for everyone else. Now the balance is being ever so slightly corrected.

Just accept that not all content is for you and that that is okay.

Considering that ZOS has the actual figures (aka the FACTS) about how many players are playing solo, and considering the poll that was done on the forums a few months ago, showed that the majority of players either play ESO completely solo or 'mostly' solo, how can you say 'to the detriment of the game's health' if they are providing content for the majority of players?

Also keep in mind that ZOS has said years ago that when ESO first came out, it completely failed as an MMO, and they realized that the majority of players wanted 'Skyrim with friends', so they created One Tamriel.

Yet even as a solo player, I could care less if they add more group content. I don't HAVE TO play every single aspect of the game. I already don't do PvP, and I don't do Trials, I haven't even touched IA. I'm not sure why players seem to think that they absolutely have to play every single part of the game when there are so many other things they can do solo. Shiny new stuff is cool and all, but we shouldn't forget about those who do enjoy group content or PvP. Solo players have received a lot of content over the past few years, and I am thankful for that, but I also don't want group players or PvP players to be neglected just to focus on players like me. If ESO is to survive, they need to offer all players something for their preferred type of gameplay- and I think the new team is working on that. The old team was growing too stale, too repetitive and too lazy IMO; the new team is not like that and I'm liking what they are doing. They are trying new things, some work, some don't, but at least they are mixing things up and I give them credit for that.

Well since you mentioned the devs and facts you may want to look at @ZOS_Kevin ’s statement about the Night Market in this thread. Even though they’ve attracted this audience of soloers, in a game that is called an MMO, you will get diminishing returns from that audience, which is clearly the case looking at player count. If the goal is to do okay for another few years then sure the game is doing fine.

If you want the game to last another ten, twenty years though then you need to anttract another audience. And in eso’s case it’s not even a new audience, it’s their old fans who have lately been returning to the game because of its new and arguably better direction of remembering what kind of game this is. I respect them for trying to adhere to the og tes fans like myself that grew up playing the single player games, but as special as those are, eso isn’t that and does something they can’t, give shared experiences.

When eso stops being good at that and becomes a game I play alone, I go to better single player experiences.