Official Night Market Feedback Thread

SeaGtGruff · May 4

I go back and forth between really enjoying this snd really hating it.

The quest pointers for the district quests are too difficult to find most of the time because you have to be practically on top of them to make them appear. That wouldn't be so frusteating except that the areas where the quest items can pitentially be are usually rather large and difficult to explore, with too many overpowered "trash" mobs that kill you while you're searching, or kill you while you're trying to interact with the quest item once you do manage to find it.

BukoPHie · May 4

I hope the devs find a way to fix this situation. Max CP here. I understand we all want challenging content, and NM difficulty feels refreshing for us oldies. But something really needs to be done to satiate the new/solo/casual players. If ESO bleeds casuals and turns away the new bloods (potential future vets) because of the NM, that's negative growth. That's big doo-doo for ESO's future.

AScarlato · May 4

I'm not sure I posted in this thread so I want to share how much I have LOVED Night Market!

1. LOVE the house and it's special features. It's great it's immediately useable for RP and enjoyment and was super-easy to get.
2. LOVE the house incentives for the extra rooms, free furniture, and incentives for Favor for the bank.
3. LOVE the gameplay. Super fun, as I mentioned in other threads I feel great healing and this was my very first trial in 6 years of playing. The primary zones are easy to get into with a large group and you don't need special gear or much talent to get by as you learn.

Sugguestions:

1. Add Guild Selling from the house bank as a future reward.
2. Possibly add ways to make the wings larger or nicer as a future toggleable reward (as some like the rooms as they are).
3. Maybe look at the sets being dropped. They are kinda nice for new players but they aren't hard to get from easier content for most of it. That said trial sets dropping was nice to see as it's pretty much the only trial gear I have now aside from the NM Helm.

PagsyTheCrabsy · May 4

Hi, I'm leaving my comment here amidst the massive influx of complaints and hoping it's seen by those who need to see it. I will not return to this thread, I will not see people calling me a shill or whatever. I'm probably busy in the Night Market.

I only leave feedback if I feel very strongly about a topic, and I only criticize if I have suggestions on alternatives. Overall, the Night Market is something I feel strongly about in a positive way. On the gameplay aspect, I find it is difficult content that leads to interesting interactions and exciting successes. And on the narrative aspect, I have deeply enjoyed exploring the Starlit Plaza, speaking to NPCs both important and obscure, and reading every tidbit of lore left on the ground. I've had an excellent experience and am confused at the backlash, because I thought this kind of experience is exactly what was asked for.

Note that I am a fairly average PvE-Engager. I am not a Hashtag Elite Player. If I start to get too sweaty about builds and parsing or whatever, I log off and do the dishes. I do not deal high damage numbers. I primarily heal on a build that doesn't even have a monster set. All that being said, I have still had a great experience grouping to run NM so far. Even though I'm pretty much only in roleplay/trade/craft guilds, it has been pretty doable to jump into NM with those folks. For example, I don't know anybody in my trade guild, but I offered to join a small 4-person group who was running the oddities. Not only did we get our oddity achievement, we also got a Gilded enemy down (to much fanfare and celebration). Take my grain of salt however, in that I have yet to fully experience the Group Finder for Night Market, and I understand it is more difficult to group when you don't have access to a chat. Zone chat is usually my go-to for random grouping, and Starlit Plaza seems too instanced for that avenue to function well, at least in what I've experienced. If the method of random-grouping through those methods could be eased in some way, that may help folks without immediate access to communities.

Now, I want to say the following, because I see a lot of annoyance simply about NM being high level group content which cannot be solo'ed, as if it's a surprise. Every single bit of news I heard from official outlets was that this was high level group content which cannot be solo'ed. I thus entered the game, encountered high level group content which cannot be solo'ed, and lo, I was not surprised! The nature of this content was communicated very clearly. It is Condensed Craglorn. You will have an excellent time if you seek a group, communicate your goals, and relax a little about the fact that you will be dying a lot. Bring your repair kits, check your food buffs, and go get silly. Throw yourself against the Calamitous Dunegorger with nothing but 3 people and the sheer Unrelenting Force of your stubborn will. I mean it.

Tldr; I personally find the Night Market to be the fun, difficult group content people have been asking for, and I have been having more than a good enough time (even as someone kinda average at PvE) to say something about that in a public space.

MidnightDuel · May 4

Tandor wrote: »

MidnightDuel wrote: »

What happens AFTER the Night Market ends?
Where will the entrance to the Night's Den house be located? Will players be able to exit the house in Fargrave when the Market is gone? Will there be an entrace somewhere in Fargrave?

The house icon is already on the map once you've received the house (and possibly have visited it, that may be required before the icon appears - I seem to have had a different experience with different accounts), so you will still be able to access it from the map or from your list of houses (which you can also access it through as soon as you receive it). Once the event has gone I believe that exiting the house will place you back where you were before you entered it.

Other houses have an alternate exit in a different location (e.g. Sword Singer's, Fogbreak, Willowpond Haven, etc.), but that doen't seem to be the case with the NIght's Den at this point.

The Night Market Event isn't currently active on PTS (despite the GP still being active), and there is no house Icon in The Shambles of Fargrave where the House and Night Market should be. At this point it's just guessing what happens to the house entrance/exit until there's something official from ZOS.

Martiandawn · May 4

twisttop138 wrote: »

I know some people may not be aware but this is not an expansion. ESO no longer has expansions. The chapter model was killed, much to the delight of many here on the forums. We are now on a seasonal model. Each season will likely have a theme and a battle pass around that theme. We know this is the case for next season. There will not be a new zone to explore this year but multiple solo questing for next season. There will also be dynamic events that scale and can be solo'd easily as well as new ways to do dailies in rumors and favors. The new system is a solo puzzle style IA. So plenty for casual solo players to do. It's just all on a seasonal model now.

I know this is not a traditional expansion. That's my point. The old expansion system included something for everyone with each new release. This first release under the "season" system does not; it is weighted almost exclusively toward one type of player. Zenimax apparently expects the rest of us to simply wait around and see if the next seasonal offering has more for us to do. What incentive do we have to do that?

I would very much tell you that anyone who says "this style of player has been keeping the lights on" is incorrect. You should endeavor to not spread that kind of misinformation. More likely it's that many different kinds of players subscribe, but crowns and dlc stuff. Most players I know aren't just 1 kind of player. They do housing, questing, dungeons, overland dailies, all kinds of things. Anyone that tells you this is what the majority is or wants is lying to you.

It's not misinformation. I've been observing the ups and downs in the player base for over a decade now. The players who complain the most about changes to content and game mechanics, and who tend to take "breaks" from the game when they feel their needs are not being met, are the ones who focus on chasing the meta. The players who seek a story-driven RPG experience tend to stick around.

DeathandDebauchery · May 4

Hopefully this wont get lost in the sea of feedback, but i've been polling my guildies informally since the Night Market started and wanted to discuss the biggest pain points/issues.

I want to be clear that overall, we love the Night Market and want it to stay. In particular, we really love the difficulty level, the set design, the mechanics, the mob volume, and the clear progression metrics. The feedback encapsulated here is all "even better ifs" from LOTS of time spent by LOTS of your community members. The feedback is not organized in order of priority.

Any feedback that we are providing will come with a clear solution.

Key Progression

We understand the desirability to encourage replayability in zones, but a 6 ardent + 3 dungeon cycle to access the Trial once is a massive time commitment. It also creates major issues with sociability as we cannot help our fellow guildies if we progress past them without re-progressing.

Solution: Dungeons are unlocked permanently once 6 ardents are cleared. 3 Dungeons are still required to get Trial access each time so the prep loop is far more reasonable. If concerned about farming of dungeons, set cooldown timer of a few hours or reduce loot rewards or ensure loot rewards are highest on first clear.

Zone Daily Quests

We understand the idea of creating "discoverable" quests and encouraging exploration of each Night Market zone. That said, the bosses, and the quests themselves, already encourage a full exploration of the zone.

Solution: Wanted board at the entrance of each zone.

Soft Grouping

We run a social guild and so creating guild pre-mades is VERY easy. That said, we have noticed in the wild how many people follow us because they struggle to soft group.

Solution: We think zone population should be increased by 25% to increase the chances of soft grouping in the zones, or population "segments" should be area specific if they are not already (e.g. Parch 40 players). We really do think this needs to be a careful adjustment though, too much and it will trivialize content.

Base Zone Content Rewards

Overall, the "drops" from content in the Night Market feel undeveloped. The organic chest drops in the zone feel far too low for their risk, these feel like they should be more comparable to dungeon chests, particularly the ones that must be 'cleared' using a Relic (significant time investment). In addition, Trash mobs dropping NOTHING feels like a mistake. Overland sets being the norm instead of dungeon sets feels like it does not reflect difficulty. We shouldn't get the reward for killing a 1.25M world boss from a 9M brazen.

Solution: Provide similar loot drops to vet dungeon trash mobs for Night Market Trash. Improve Treasure Chest Loot. Provide dungeon sets instead of overland content sets.

Favor Orbs

Favor Orbs currently despawn way too quickly and encourage people to stop doing content to grab orbs. As this is currently the only real reward around Trash, it being so small a window is punishing.

Solution:: Orbs should have their duration of being out significantly increased (2-3x) to ensure that EVERY member of the group can get them AFTER the combat ends as opposed to a mad dash to get them.

Public Leaderboards

Unsurprisingly to anyone - public leaderboards just encouraged a one-faction mass bomb.

Solution: Hide faction points for the first two weeks and then provide metrics that will make the "competition" element closer leading up to the end of event to ensure it is not a landslide.

Skirmish LENGTH

Difficulty of Skirmishes feels good, but the pure time it takes to complete them feels agonizing. Increasing soft grouping may address this, but the sweet spot of a Skirmish fight should be like 5-7 minutes, not 9-10. The trial itself is 15-16 minutes and is supposed to be the pinnacle of content.

Solution: Reduce health of mobs to make content slightly faster in Skirmishes, or test and see soft grouping results.

tomofhyrule · May 4

Martiandawn wrote: »

It's not misinformation. I've been observing the ups and downs in the player base for over a decade now. The players who complain the most about changes to content and game mechanics, and who tend to take "breaks" from the game when they feel their needs are not being met, are the ones who focus on chasing the meta. The players who seek a story-driven RPG experience tend to stick around.

Corollary: the "I'm only here because of The Elder Scrolls series and its stories!" will (eventually) get a game to release that will directly compete with ESO. Or are we seriously expecting all of those fans to look at TES6 and say "yeah, I'll stick with ESO."

Meme on it if you want, but that is the one playerbase that we can absolutely guarantee will drop ESO like a hot potato because of a specific new release.
The other playerbases - ESO can win back. If ESO gives PvPers a reason to play, they may look back at ESO. If ESO gives group players a reason to play, they may look back at ESO. But the people who want an in-depth solo Elder Scrolls experience with no other people around...? ESO can't deliver that to the extent that TES6 can.

Wildberryjack · May 4

I've got hours and hours into it and still under 3k favor. It's imbalanced in time and effort required vs reward (favor). We're putting in a 10 effort for a 3 reward, it doesn't seem worth it. I'm already burned out and not wanting to mess with it anymore.

coop500 · May 4

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Martiandawn wrote: »

It's not misinformation. I've been observing the ups and downs in the player base for over a decade now. The players who complain the most about changes to content and game mechanics, and who tend to take "breaks" from the game when they feel their needs are not being met, are the ones who focus on chasing the meta. The players who seek a story-driven RPG experience tend to stick around.

Corollary: the "I'm only here because of The Elder Scrolls series and its stories!" will (eventually) get a game to release that will directly compete with ESO. Or are we seriously expecting all of those fans to look at TES6 and say "yeah, I'll stick with ESO."

Meme on it if you want, but that is the one playerbase that we can absolutely guarantee will drop ESO like a hot potato because of a specific new release.
The other playerbases - ESO can win back. If ESO gives PvPers a reason to play, they may look back at ESO. If ESO gives group players a reason to play, they may look back at ESO. But the people who want an in-depth solo Elder Scrolls experience with no other people around...? ESO can't deliver that to the extent that TES6 can.

*Assuming the game isn't an AI generated microtransaction shitshow lol*

Also if they exclude Werewolves like Oblivion did, I'd defo still stick here.

I understand what you mean to a degree though. Assuming TES6 does NOT royally suck like Starfield or worse, they probably will scuttle.

Erickson9610 · May 4

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Martiandawn wrote: »

It's not misinformation. I've been observing the ups and downs in the player base for over a decade now. The players who complain the most about changes to content and game mechanics, and who tend to take "breaks" from the game when they feel their needs are not being met, are the ones who focus on chasing the meta. The players who seek a story-driven RPG experience tend to stick around.

Corollary: the "I'm only here because of The Elder Scrolls series and its stories!" will (eventually) get a game to release that will directly compete with ESO. Or are we seriously expecting all of those fans to look at TES6 and say "yeah, I'll stick with ESO."

Meme on it if you want, but that is the one playerbase that we can absolutely guarantee will drop ESO like a hot potato because of a specific new release.
The other playerbases - ESO can win back. If ESO gives PvPers a reason to play, they may look back at ESO. If ESO gives group players a reason to play, they may look back at ESO. But the people who want an in-depth solo Elder Scrolls experience with no other people around...? ESO can't deliver that to the extent that TES6 can.

But then what happens a few months after TES VI is released, and ESO continues to get new content? You would've thought people would still be playing TES IV: Oblivion Remastered, but it doesn't have the cultural impact that TES V: Skyrim or even the original TES IV: Oblivion has.

The Elder Scrolls Online will always draw the "singleplayer TES" crowd back in. You don't need group content or PvP to do that. TESO is set in the 2nd Era, has so many more quests and stories than any other TES game, and it is continually adding more.

All that TES VI has going for it is *possibly* having modding support, but even then, the lack of community engagement we saw from Oblivion Remastered's modding scene doesn't bode well for TES VI.

DenverRalphy · May 4

MidnightDuel wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

MidnightDuel wrote: »

What happens AFTER the Night Market ends?
Where will the entrance to the Night's Den house be located? Will players be able to exit the house in Fargrave when the Market is gone? Will there be an entrace somewhere in Fargrave?

The house icon is already on the map once you've received the house (and possibly have visited it, that may be required before the icon appears - I seem to have had a different experience with different accounts), so you will still be able to access it from the map or from your list of houses (which you can also access it through as soon as you receive it). Once the event has gone I believe that exiting the house will place you back where you were before you entered it.

The Night Market Event isn't currently active on PTS (despite the GP still being active), and there is no house Icon in The Shambles of Fargrave where the House and Night Market should be. At this point it's just guessing what happens to the house entrance/exit until there's something official from ZOS.

What about the Fargrave map level as a whole? Does it exist at that map level on PTS? I can't look as I'm on PS. I don't recall the Shambles map level itself (not in game so can't take a look), but I do have a screenshot of the Fargrave map level.

AzuraFan · May 4

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Meme on it if you want, but that is the one playerbase that we can absolutely guarantee will drop ESO like a hot potato because of a specific new release.

When Oblivion Remastered was released, I played it and...ESO. Right now, I'm playing the Outer Words and...ESO. Last week, I was playing Starfield and...ESO. When TES6 releases, I'll play it and...ESO.

Most of the gamers I know play more than one game at a time. While I expect some people will drop ESO when TES6 releases, a lot of us won't.

BloodofBlue · May 4

I've really been enjoying the Night Market! Figuring out how to tackle the challenge as a player that's nowhere near endgame/meta level of power's been a delight, and I've found viable ways to get stuff done both solo and with friends. It's totally possible to navigate around without aggroing things even without stealth, and even if you do get spotted all the district dailies I've come across have their goals close enough to the respawn points that you can book it over before you lose the invulnerability. The group finder fills fast when I do want to do combat, and everyone I've run into's been really nice! I love the camaraderie it's fostered and I really appreciate that faction choice doesn't keep us from playing with and helping each other. I've made friends just by finding people who seem able to hold their own and following them around, and one such time it blossomed into a group that helped me beat two of the skirmishes!

I get the frustration that it's not something where you can do everything solo, but I think it really is just an issue of not being able to please everyone. People who want to solo and people who want to do group content that actually feels like a group's needed are two diametrically opposed audiences, it's inevitable that they can only cater to one at a time. Personally I'm really happy with how the Night Market's turned out, and I haven't even gotten into how much of a delight the setting, lore, and npcs are! You can really tell people had fun making this, and that alone brings me so much joy

Blood_again · May 4

Overall the Night Market is fun for any type of grouping, from premade to soft group.
For solo player, I found it challenging and not rewarding (considering the endeavors). But it is OK.
As a player who votes with my legs, I spent the most of my ESO time in the Night Market for the last week. Also, I see half of my guildmates are constantly there.

The Awesome part, that I admire.

The Night Market has variability.
Some tough bosses, some puzzles, some quests with location seeking. It is fun.

The boss mechanics are familiar and mixed at the same time.
The spider protected with stones, protected with ghosts, protected with invisibility? That was nice!
Sea sload ressing a skeleton dragon? Amazing!
As a PvE mechanics enjoyer, I have a lot of fun.

The 12-people trial is a real thing.
Not so tough dps requirement but strong responsibility for mechanics and coordination makes it an awesome group challenge.
I didn't try it with a random group yet, but I definitely will. I really wish to see it.

The idea of relics that help traverse through the districts, work as keys to dungeons, and have a key role in trial mechanics at the same time...
It is huge. I really, really love it.

The wandering Duneripper that eats you to have gastric reflux because of too many heroes eaten - it is legendary!

The Good part, that I like.

Rewards from Calamitous bosses and Skirmishes happen to be cool.
Trade bars, group repairs, full spectrum of motifs, including the latest ones.
(I was really surprised to get a Coldharbor Dominator motif page)

Separating into three districts with their own theme makes a great atmosphere.

The structure of bosses and how they respawn is easy to get.
The HUD page with keys structure and skirmish timers is well organized and helps a lot.

Buffs from easy content like puzzles and speed challenges are helpful and can help some weak groups if a group leader cares.

The Poor part, that could be better.

The rewards for a veteran player are poor.
The sets, even the trial ones like IA or serpent, are old and barely useful. We collected them already.
Even a gold-quality item of it isn't really cool for a player who ran your DLC trials.
Some motifs are new and rare, but many of them are old. There is a really wide random, that makes the farm senseless.

Very small limit for players in instance.
It makes the error "Unable to port to leader" happen so often that it becomes a pain for a GF user.

Puzzles are griefed by a random player easily.
I managed to do them silently only at night, when nobody's around.
Maybe it should've been placed in an instance where only your group members can join you?

The HUD counter for skirmishes displays wrong information (from the previous instance probably) after you port into a new instance. That sometimes turns the group goals into chaos.

The Ugly part, that I don't like at all.

Group Finder doesn't work well for 4-people dungeons.
The role limits are just bugged.
The requirements, like having keys and a relic, are impossible to check until a group member gets stuck before the dungeon pathway.
It turns into a struggle to find a random member for a dungeon.

Keys farming for each dungeon and trial run turns into a burden very fast.
It is fun the first time. It is OK the second. But now it is irritating.
I don't like when the game sends me to do some bosses or dungeons, when my friends need help with a trial in 15 minutes.
It is as silly as running in a hamster wheel.
I would like to see it the same way as relics - once you open it, you can run it whenever you want.

Summary, Thank you for the nice event zone, dear Team!
You've done good work here.
With some improvements it will be even better.

twisttop138 · May 4

Martiandawn wrote: »

twisttop138 wrote: »

I know some people may not be aware but this is not an expansion. ESO no longer has expansions. The chapter model was killed, much to the delight of many here on the forums. We are now on a seasonal model. Each season will likely have a theme and a battle pass around that theme. We know this is the case for next season. There will not be a new zone to explore this year but multiple solo questing for next season. There will also be dynamic events that scale and can be solo'd easily as well as new ways to do dailies in rumors and favors. The new system is a solo puzzle style IA. So plenty for casual solo players to do. It's just all on a seasonal model now.

I know this is not a traditional expansion. That's my point. The old expansion system included something for everyone with each new release. This first release under the "season" system does not; it is weighted almost exclusively toward one type of player. Zenimax apparently expects the rest of us to simply wait around and see if the next seasonal offering has more for us to do. What incentive do we have to do that?

I would very much tell you that anyone who says "this style of player has been keeping the lights on" is incorrect. You should endeavor to not spread that kind of misinformation. More likely it's that many different kinds of players subscribe, but crowns and dlc stuff. Most players I know aren't just 1 kind of player. They do housing, questing, dungeons, overland dailies, all kinds of things. Anyone that tells you this is what the majority is or wants is lying to you.

It's not misinformation. I've been observing the ups and downs in the player base for over a decade now. The players who complain the most about changes to content and game mechanics, and who tend to take "breaks" from the game when they feel their needs are not being met, are the ones who focus on chasing the meta. The players who seek a story-driven RPG experience tend to stick around.

You and I agree very much about expansions. I was very sad when they announced the changes in January and almost stopped playing because of it, after almost 10 years. I'm not going to re-litigate it but it's a bummer. But yes, they very much expect you to wait and see if the next season is for you. Or not wait. But this is what it is now. I saw during the cheering of the death of chapters, many players had never played a seasonal battle pass mmo. Which is fine but that is how it works. There will be seasons that are a bust for you or me. You either wait or check back next season or leave. Zos has said they no longer have it, that they cannot move forward as they were and cannot do chapters. I'd tell you which directors fault it was but they told me I picked on him so I won't. It really is a bummer but is what it is.

MSattrtand · May 4

There were some people in this thread (and in others, too) who claimed that NM has the difficulty of a vet (HM) trial, and others (including me) who claimed that NM has the difficulty of a normal trial. So, I've decided to do some mythbusting.

Part 1 - Visual Analysis
Let's take a look at the HP of different mobs. I'll be using Sorrow's Friend as an example, but this should apply to others as well.

Brazen bosses have around 9.5M HP. That's close to the HP of Sail Ripper and Bow Breaker from nDSR (11.9M), Cavot Agnan from nLC (10.2M), and the Ash Titan from nRG (11.9M). Conclusion: Brazens have an HP pool similar to normal trial minibosses.
Argent Kovan Giryon has 16.9M HP, and Argent Exarch Molonach has 25.4M HP. That's close to the HP of Oaxiltso (19M), Bahsei (21.8M), and Xalvakk (25M) from nRG, as well as Orphic Shattered Shard (21.8M) and Xoryn (20.4M) from nLC. Conclusion: Argents have an HP pool similar to normal trial regular bosses.
Calamitous Wailing Bedina has 29.5M HP. That's close to the HP of Taleria (29.5M) from nDSR and Kazpian (28.4M) from nOC. Conclusion: Calamitous bosses have an HP pool similar to normal trial final bosses.
Spiral Descender has 34.2M HP. That's higher than any of the aforementioned trial bosses, but still lower than Ansuul (40.8M) from nSE.
Trash Mobs: I checked a pack that features a (de facto) Keelcutter mob from DSR. It has 1.5M HP in nDSR and 845k in NM. An Ornaug has 321k HP in nDSR, and a Wolf has 316k HP in NM (not the same mob, but close enough). The lowest HP mobs in the packs were the Dreadsail Swindler and Stormrider with 160k HP in nDSR, and the Dremnaken with 200k HP in NM. Overall, elite mobs in NM are less bulky than in nDSR, but smaller mobs are slightly more bulky (though there was only one Dremnaken compared to a few Swindlers and Stormriders).

Conclusion for Part 1: HP-wise, all NM mobs are very close to their normal trial counterparts.

Part 2 - Log Analysis
HP is not the only thing that differs between normal and veteran trials - the damage output of mobs varies too. The main goal of this part was to analyse the damage of the trash mobs from the same packs I mentioned previously, and I was logging these encounters.

Scenario 1: My Tank Build
Build specifications: Armour cap, Lucent Echoes, all four damage-type mitigation slottable CPs, Major and Minor Protection, Minor Aegis (doesn't work in NM), Gladiator's Tenacity. No blocking, just keeping buffs and healing.

nDSR: The Keelcutter deals 2.3k damage (Avg Hit) with his light attack, 4.6k with his heavy, 2.1k with Incineration, and 3.4k with Expelled Fire.
vDSR: The Keelcutter deals 8k damage with his light attack and 14.1k with his heavy. I didn't survive long enough to see Incineration and Expelled Fire.
NM: The Keelcutter deals 4.4k damage with his light attack, 7.9k with his heavy, 4.2k with Incineration, and 4.5k with Expelled Fire.

For the smaller mobs: Let's check the Ornaug and Senche (I'm not sure why this time the NM pack had a Senche instead of a Wolf).

nDSR: Ornaug deals 400 damage with its light attack and 670 damage with its charge.
vDSR: Ornaug deals 1.2k damage with its light attack and 1.8k damage with its charge.
NM: Senche deals 2k damage with its light attack.

Scenario 2: My Healer Build
Build specifications: 7 light armour pieces, Minor Resolve from casting Combat Prayer. No blocking, just casting HoTs and Combat Prayer.

nDSR: The Keelcutter deals 4.7k damage with his light attack, 11.5k with his heavy, 4.5k with Incineration, and 6.9k with Expelled Fire.
vDSR: The Keelcutter deals 20k damage with his light attack. I didn't survive long enough to see anything else.
NM: The Keelcutter deals 10.7k damage with his light attack, 20k with his heavy, and 9.1k with Expelled Fire. I haven't seen Incineration.

For the smaller mobs: Let's check the Ornaug and Wolf.

nDSR: Ornaug deals 850 damage with its light attack and 1.7k damage with its charge.
vDSR: Ornaug deals 2.2k damage with its light attack. I didn't survive long enough to see the charge.
NM: Wolf deals 2.1k damage with its light attack.

Conclusion for Part 2: Damage-wise, all NM mobs are stronger than their normal trial counterparts, especially smaller ones, but elites are weaker than those from the veteran trial.

Closing thoughts:
The difficulty of the Night Market is much closer to a normal trial than to a veteran trial. Trash mobs are more deadly, but if one has armour buffs and food active, they should not get one-shot by them, especially if one can press block or dodge and stay away from the red. Nerfing their damage will remove the need for tanks and healers for trash packs, which is not a good thing for a group-oriented event.

Syldras · May 4

Sixth evening.

Nothing too interesting to report (still progressing as usual, still 10 fragments missing in total until I have all relics, 2 of them dropping from mobs - curious how much of a grind that might or might not become), except for one thing: One of those npcs for the missing persons quest finally showed up - after I had the quest uncompleted in my questlog for 3 days! I can clearly say I had been looking at exactly that location before, yesterday and the day before that, but the past few days, that npc wouldn't load. This is clearly bugged.

ESO_player123 · May 5

Syldras wrote: »

Sixth evening.

Nothing too interesting to report (still progressing as usual, still 10 fragments missing in total until I have all relics, 2 of them dropping from mobs - curious how much of a grind that might or might not become), except for one thing: One of those npcs for the missing persons quest finally showed up - after I had the quest uncompleted in my questlog for 3 days! I can clearly say I had been looking at exactly that location before, yesterday and the day before that, but the past few days, that npc wouldn't load. This is clearly bugged.

They move the bodies around at night.

Syldras · May 5

ESO_player123 wrote: »

They move the bodies around at night.

Interesting. I know there are several locations for each person, but I thought when taking the quest they would spawn and then remain at that location.

Do you know how many different locations there are per missing npc?

ESO_player123 · May 5

Syldras wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

They move the bodies around at night.

Interesting. I know there are several locations for each person, but I thought when taking the quest they would spawn and then remain at that location.

Do you know how many different locations there are per missing npc?

That was my attempt at a joke. Sorry.
But it could be that there might be different locations since there is a quest in another district that has an item spawn in 3 possible areas. So, I do not know if it's intentional or not.

Edit: I did all of these mini quests once for achievement, and I do not see myself every doing them again. It's too much hassle for a measly reward.

Syldras · May 5

ESO_player123 wrote: »

That was my attempt at a joke. Sorry.
But it could be that there might be different locations since there is a quest in another district that has an item spawn in 3 possible areas. So, I do not know if it's intentional or not.
Edit: I did all of these mini quests once for achievement, and I do not see myself every doing them again. It's too much hassle for a measly reward.

I don't do them every day, but I like to pick them up when I find one. Gives it at least a bit of structure and meaning when moving through the zones (and I need to do that anyway, for that splinter dropping from random mobs, or when moving from boss to boss, or waiting for a skirmish to start). It's not super exciting, of course, and it's the same few things every day, but it's something at least, I guess.

I know there are several locations for every object, I'm just not sure if the location can change once the quest is accepted and the objects are spawned (and if so, how often that would happen - once a day, or perhaps every time when entering the Market).

All I know is that it did happen to me before that I looked at a specific location and the thing I needed to find wasn't there, but then, it did suddenly show up at that location some time later. My suspicion still is that there might be a problem with these objects sometimes just not loading.

Soarora · May 5

Feedback #6 (officially)

Today I'm focused on starting my journey with pugging. At ~7pm, I found that group finder listings are quickly getting delisted and quickly getting put up, so there's quite a bit of activity there! I do wish there were subsections to the group finder though. One for opulent ordeal, one for dungeons, and one for overland.

I'm surprised that most of these groups are very specific rather than exploratory but that also makes a lot more sense than them being mostly exploratory.

For The Parch skirmish, people are taking to just dealing with the enrage by keeping the melee boss out of the circle. Also, most of the group got eaten by the duneripper when skirmish was almost dead... they didn't get the skirmish completion loot when they got back out of the duneripper. This group shared Plaza quests when I joined, which was nice.

Night Market is showing some problems with two systems though:
- The announcement pop-ups... the blood on the sands incrementally increasing by ONE makes it so the Skirmish instructions don't show up in time
- It seems like it'd be useful if there was an option to create a rolling group finder listing, where it re-activates when someone leaves.

I did the sorrow's friend "dungeon" with a guildie (and 2 other people-- I don't know from where). It is cool but also disappointing that it's Ansuul but dungeon... I do hope we get hard modes later. I think the difficulty is in a good spot though because you need these to do the trial.

The parch's "dungeon" was way harder, I liked that one. Can you tell I'm partial to Thurvokun?

The house doesn't have enough slots without eso+ to put all the reward furnishings in.

icefyer_ESO · May 5

Personally, my main issues with the event are:

1, the keys. Having to refarm them repeatedly each time you want to do the dungeon or trail isn't fun.

2, the rewards are rather...lackluster, as far as the sets go. They're decent beginner sets, but you can get them easily pretty much anywhere else, why not some unique sets that are nightmarket exclusives that show up every time so that people will always be wanting them and so have incentives to do the event each time it comes around? I'm not sure how that'd work though, but I know people in other games like GW2 absolutely swarm their seasonal events for account-bound cosmetics and the like.

3, the daily quests you discover in the zone aren't displayed on the map or compass until you're basically right ontop of them unlike every other daily quest you can pick up in the game where you can see them on the compass from quite a way off. It'd be great if they were shown on the map or compass if you get within their ~1/4th of the map or so, so that they're easier to find and get favor for those that are soloers or simply want to knock some out for easy favor? I think that might help with favor for soloers feeling so slow.

4. Why do we have to pick up the favor orbs that drop? I think it'd also help the favor thing if that source favor was just considered a basic drop that was instantly added to your favor count instead of having to find an orb and hope you get it before it despawns. But even then its such a small amount of favor it's not usually worth picking up anyway.

5. The skirmishes might need a bit toned down, but not a ton I think. Earlier we got crushed doing the Sorrows one because the sword mini-boss was slamming our tank for half his health per auto-attack swing, and both them and the spider simply one-shot anyone else they so much as looked at funny, alongside needing to deal with the pillars while said boss is rampaging through the party because both tanks got two-shot faster than I could heal them. I've been in full 12-man squads with healers, tanks and all and have failed them a lot more than completed but there have been some victories. Especially that one and the Brood one in the Skittering district in particular. The Parch one isn't nearly as bad as those two.

6. Speaking of getting two-shot. The damage enemies deal might be a tad much for said skirmishes. The bosses are generally fine with a non-fake tank, but I'm not sure tanks should be getting squished in two hits vs skirmishes like that. Even the Calamatous boss doesn't do that. Plus the fact that said calamatous bosses are set to patrol through the skirmish zones, and a it means that we've had to face off against multiple bosses simultaneously. Once the cala ghost lady in Sorrows wandered into the skirmish zone so we had to fight the equivalent of 3 bosses simultaneously + adds.

Also, recovering from said two / one-shots, the slow-fall from the respawn is difficult to control. Several times I've ended up sailing away, plus the long duration of it means that it often results in a disaster-dominoes effect where a couple key people die, and then the 30-second or whatever timer is still ticking as they're just standing there waiting to see if they can revive in time or if everyone's just going to be finished off, then suddenly respawn and the boss goes for them. It'd be nice if you could, say, attack to cancel the invincibility period early or something.

Xarico · May 5

Many have shared their thoughts, so I'll add mine just to offer another viewpoint.

I'm a solo player who has essentially no interest in group content and in the Night Market (but I'm happy that people who enjoy it are enjoying it). This is not because I dislike difficult content - I'm very excited about the overland difficulty slider and came back to the game partly because it's being added, and Dark Souls used to be one of my favorite games - but because interacting with strangers is tiring and feels like a job. I'm still very positive about the game's (apparent) new direction and tried to support it financially. Reworking and updating existing content, which the team is doing, is a tougher sell than adding new content, but an older game really needs it and I'm glad that the team is doing it. Likewise, trying something new is risky but deserves support and praise, in my opinion.

I don't think that all new content must necessarily be for me, and I don't feel abandoned or disrespected right now. This, of course, may change. If the team decides that group content should be a semi-mandatory part of most new content going forward (like some other games that make dungeons a necessary part of otherwise mostly single-player stories), then this game will cease to be for me. I hope it won't, and right now it doesn't seem that it will.

In another MMORPG I took part in global map events where it's enough to soft group with a zerg and get everything done that way, reliably, with no single person (other than a commander) playing a noticeable part or being a detriment to the zerg's success. You're essentially there by yourself, doing things at your own pace, just surrounded by many other players. NM doesn't have enough population density for that. I don't know whether or not it's a technical limitation or a deliberate choice, but I might have enjoyed a group content zone if this play style were an option.

allochthons · May 5

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

The quest pointers for the district quests are too difficult to find most of the time because you have to be practically on top of them to make them appear.
[snip]

I made some maps to the quest spawn locations, and the objective locations (all that I've found, anyway.)
I'll keep updating as I find more

Soarora · May 5

Feedback #6.1...

Now completed all the dungeons! My feedback for Gossamer is to have the hoarvors spawn more often. Boss was often enraged with no hoarvor to hit her with.

Sunshinesunset · May 5

I think it sucks. I am a solo player or I play with one person. We went and did the first quest, joined thousand eyes, and the rest is impossible for me to do. I don't have a big group. I play on west coast time late so there aren't many people around. I'm not a dungeon or trial player. I always loved the stories. What sucks about this whole event, is I pay for eso plus every month, and you have this big event going on, but you made it for ONLY large group players. Its too hard for even a group of 4 to do. So I get to sit and watch everyone else reap the benefits while I can't get anything. It's really unfair. Makes me not want to play the game anymore. I have 10 characters of all races and classes and I have no motivation to get on any of them. I get that this is an mmorpg, but its stated that its for solo players as well. Your big update this year is NOT for solo players. It's not even for small groups. I'm not happy at all!

method__01 · May 5

so the 3 dungeons and the trial must be done again to get what normally should drop first time .....

just great

twisttop138 · May 5

icefyer_ESO wrote: »

Personally, my main issues with the event are:

1, the keys. Having to refarm them repeatedly each time you want to do the dungeon or trail isn't fun.

2, the rewards are rather...lackluster, as far as the sets go. They're decent beginner sets, but you can get them easily pretty much anywhere else, why not some unique sets that are nightmarket exclusives that show up every time so that people will always be wanting them and so have incentives to do the event each time it comes around? I'm not sure how that'd work though, but I know people in other games like GW2 absolutely swarm their seasonal events for account-bound cosmetics and the like.

3, the daily quests you discover in the zone aren't displayed on the map or compass until you're basically right ontop of them unlike every other daily quest you can pick up in the game where you can see them on the compass from quite a way off. It'd be great if they were shown on the map or compass if you get within their ~1/4th of the map or so, so that they're easier to find and get favor for those that are soloers or simply want to knock some out for easy favor? I think that might help with favor for soloers feeling so slow.

4. Why do we have to pick up the favor orbs that drop? I think it'd also help the favor thing if that source favor was just considered a basic drop that was instantly added to your favor count instead of having to find an orb and hope you get it before it despawns. But even then its such a small amount of favor it's not usually worth picking up anyway.

5. The skirmishes might need a bit toned down, but not a ton I think. Earlier we got crushed doing the Sorrows one because the sword mini-boss was slamming our tank for half his health per auto-attack swing, and both them and the spider simply one-shot anyone else they so much as looked at funny, alongside needing to deal with the pillars while said boss is rampaging through the party because both tanks got two-shot faster than I could heal them. I've been in full 12-man squads with healers, tanks and all and have failed them a lot more than completed but there have been some victories. Especially that one and the Brood one in the Skittering district in particular. The Parch one isn't nearly as bad as those two.

6. Speaking of getting two-shot. The damage enemies deal might be a tad much for said skirmishes. The bosses are generally fine with a non-fake tank, but I'm not sure tanks should be getting squished in two hits vs skirmishes like that. Even the Calamatous boss doesn't do that. Plus the fact that said calamatous bosses are set to patrol through the skirmish zones, and a it means that we've had to face off against multiple bosses simultaneously. Once the cala ghost lady in Sorrows wandered into the skirmish zone so we had to fight the equivalent of 3 bosses simultaneously + adds.

Also, recovering from said two / one-shots, the slow-fall from the respawn is difficult to control. Several times I've ended up sailing away, plus the long duration of it means that it often results in a disaster-dominoes effect where a couple key people die, and then the 30-second or whatever timer is still ticking as they're just standing there waiting to see if they can revive in time or if everyone's just going to be finished off, then suddenly respawn and the boss goes for them. It'd be nice if you could, say, attack to cancel the invincibility period early or something.

The wandering boss appearing at the center boss fight in the sorrows is awesome. We try to time it to make it happen. There's an achievement for it I believe. I had already killed both bosses but when we dragged her over, I got an achievement after they were both dead.

The skirmishes are for sure hard on tanks. I've only been through on a tank once with a large group and my usual trial healers so I give all the credit to them for any heroics I pulled off. Thank your healers folks. They do a hard job keeping you alive while you're standing in stupid and usually get blamed for the death if it happens.