Sorc pets: 1 bar or 2 bars?

Tenthirty2 · May 2023

Sorc pets should be changed so you only need slot them on 1 bar yet still persist on the off bar

1 bar persistent but only if they change the Warden's bear ult to do the same

Thecompton73 · May 2023

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

The only caveat I would want in this scenario is your pets deal 10% reduced damage while on the off bar. I'm okay with them persisting between swapping bars, I would get very annoyed with them popping in and out on switching, or worse make them 15 minute duration pets then you would still have to recast them every time you zoned.

I think being free on the slotted bar and each pet costing 100-200 magic per second on the off bar would be a more interesting mechanic. You'd have the slots available but at the cost of not wanting to spend any more time than absolutely necessary on the off bar.

Mesite · May 2023

Sorc pets should continue to require a slot on each bar and despawn when swapping to a bar they aren't slotted on

I would have chosen "I don't mind but give us the overload third skill bar back".

SeaGtGruff · May 2023

Sorc pets should be changed so you only need slot them on 1 bar yet still persist on the off bar

Tenthirty2 wrote: »

1 bar persistent but only if they change the Warden's bear ult to do the same

The thing is, the Warden's bear has a morph that basically does that already, doesn't it? At least, what I read on the UESPWiki last night makes it sound that way. There are no such morphs for Sorc pets.

Also, if I'm reading the UESPWiki right, it looks like the Warden bear costs no Ultimate to summon (cost: "free"), whereas the Sorc pets cost Magicka to summon.

Tenthirty2 · May 2023

Sorc pets should be changed so you only need slot them on 1 bar yet still persist on the off bar

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Tenthirty2 wrote: »

1 bar persistent but only if they change the Warden's bear ult to do the same

The thing is, the Warden's bear has a morph that basically does that already, doesn't it? At least, what I read on the UESPWiki last night makes it sound that way. There are no such morphs for Sorc pets.

Also, if I'm reading the UESPWiki right, it looks like the Warden bear costs no Ultimate to summon (cost: "free"), whereas the Sorc pets cost Magicka to summon.

Eternal Guardian morph iirc is the one you are thinking of. But that will only auto resummon the bear if it dies. If you swap to a bar where it isn't slotted it will still unsummon the bear same as it does for sorc pets.
You are correct, to summon the bear costs no ultimate. Using it's power attack (Ult) costs something low like 70 I think.

On my Warden main I rarely use it's ult attack for normal content and keep my ult at 500 because I like to have Strategic Reserve slotted which gives bonus health recovery for every 10 ultimate you have. The bear is pretty tanky while doing good damage on it's own, so I only use it's ultimate in emergencies.

TBH I really think pets are fine as they are. If I could free the slot and keep the bear I'd prolly put something like perfected dawnbreaker on FB and leave bear on the back. But I highly doubt they'd make a change to the pets like this anyway

CGPsaint · May 2023

Sorc pets should be changed so you only need slot them on 1 bar yet still persist on the off bar

As it stands, Pet Sorcs have 5 slots filled with Volatile Familiar (2), Matriarch (2), and Daedric Prey (1). I would like to see both pets only needing to be slotted on the back bar, and persisting over to the front bar, which would be offset by removing the passive damage dealt. Both pets would remain summoned and do ZERO damage if the corresponding abilities have not been activated. That would allow Sorcs to use class specific abilities in their build and would free up two slots for additional abilities which would make them more useful in group settings, such as a Dark Magic ability for the Minor Prophecy buff, and Energy Orb to provide heals and a synergy for the group.

If both pets only deal damage when activated then they would be no different than any other DOT/AOE on the back bar. Just my two cents.

Thecompton73 · May 2023

CGPsaint wrote: »

As it stands, Pet Sorcs have 5 slots filled with Volatile Familiar (2), Matriarch (2), and Daedric Prey (1). I would like to see both pets only needing to be slotted on the back bar, and persisting over to the front bar, which would be offset by removing the passive damage dealt. Both pets would remain summoned and do ZERO damage if the corresponding abilities have not been activated. That would allow Sorcs to use class specific abilities in their build and would free up two slots for additional abilities which would make them more useful in group settings, such as a Dark Magic ability for the Minor Prophecy buff, and Energy Orb to provide heals and a synergy for the group.

If both pets only deal damage when activated then they would be no different than any other DOT/AOE on the back bar. Just my two cents.

Thanks for your input. A follow up question:
Sorc pets currently do damage over time and can activate a special ability the does more damage or heals them. Under your proposal would activating the skill cause them to do a dot for a set amount of time plus the have the special available on a second cast? If so how long should the Dot last? Or do you want to do away with the Dot completely and only have the special activate available? If that was the case it doesn't seem they'd need to persist on the off bar.

SeaGtGruff · May 2023

Sorc pets should be changed so you only need slot them on 1 bar yet still persist on the off bar

TBH, I've found my two Sorc pets to be mostly useless outside of group instances such as group dungeons, since they don't take damage in group instances. The primary reason I use them-- aside from a little extra damage in group dungeons-- is to give myself a self-heal ability, and if they get killed in a fight then it stinks to have to resummon them and then immediately call on their healing, both of which costs Magicka and both of which can be interrupted. I'm seriously thinking of ditching my Sorc pets and going with Resolving Vigor instead, which is what I use on my StamBlade.

TybaltKaine · May 2023

Sorc pets should continue to require a slot on each bar and despawn when swapping to a bar they aren't slotted on

What would stop me from summoning them on my backbar, switching bars and equipping Oakensoul?

Pets offer a massive advantage in that they are persistent, deal damage, take hits, and heal you. It's two free companions, in addition to my actual companion and anything else I summon from sets (Mad Tinkerer, Morkuldin and Maw). Add an Atronach ultimate on top and I've got a small army at all times, and this change would let me equip Oakensoul with a full complement of slots at the cost of giving up a single summon set piece.

No thanks. I get enough hate as a HA Oakensoul Sorc who doesn't run the broken meta but everyone assumes does. I'd never be able to mind my business in PUG's again.

isadoraisacat · May 2023

TybaltKaine wrote: »

What would stop me from summoning them on my backbar, switching bars and equipping Oakensoul?

Pets offer a massive advantage in that they are persistent, deal damage, take hits, and heal you. It's two free companions, in addition to my actual companion and anything else I summon from sets (Mad Tinkerer, Morkuldin and Maw). Add an Atronach ultimate on top and I've got a small army at all times, and this change would let me equip Oakensoul with a full complement of slots at the cost of giving up a single summon set piece.

No thanks. I get enough hate as a HA Oakensoul Sorc who doesn't run the broken meta but everyone assumes does. I'd never be able to mind my business in PUG's again.

That’s what I said as a HA build the same way people are against oakensoul ha builds they’d do the same if pets were only active off one bar prob worse cos they offer so much Damage and on LA 2 bar build people would do so much insane damage it would eclipse what oakensoul does.

CGPsaint · May 2023

Sorc pets should be changed so you only need slot them on 1 bar yet still persist on the off bar

Thecompton73 wrote: »

CGPsaint wrote: »

As it stands, Pet Sorcs have 5 slots filled with Volatile Familiar (2), Matriarch (2), and Daedric Prey (1). I would like to see both pets only needing to be slotted on the back bar, and persisting over to the front bar, which would be offset by removing the passive damage dealt. Both pets would remain summoned and do ZERO damage if the corresponding abilities have not been activated. That would allow Sorcs to use class specific abilities in their build and would free up two slots for additional abilities which would make them more useful in group settings, such as a Dark Magic ability for the Minor Prophecy buff, and Energy Orb to provide heals and a synergy for the group.

If both pets only deal damage when activated then they would be no different than any other DOT/AOE on the back bar. Just my two cents.

Thanks for your input. A follow up question:
Sorc pets currently do damage over time and can activate a special ability the does more damage or heals them. Under your proposal would activating the skill cause them to do a dot for a set amount of time plus the have the special available on a second cast? If so how long should the Dot last? Or do you want to do away with the Dot completely and only have the special activate available? If that was the case it doesn't seem they'd need to persist on the off bar.

In my proposal pets would not deal any damage unless activated. So no passive damage at all. That way they would only deal damage for the duration of the ability and would need to be recast just like any other skill. That would allow the pets to be back-barred just like any other DOT which should satisfy both parties. It frees up 2 slots on the front bar and isn't OP because of the lack of passive damage. The Volatile Familiar could maintain the stun on X pulse, and the Matriarch would now either be for burst heals or for damage. Having to pick one or the other on the Matriarch is in my opinion a good compromise. That all said, I would also make ALL pets have a much smaller hitbox so that players can't hide behind them in PvP. As always, just my 2 cents.

phaneub17_ESO · May 2023

Sorc pets should be changed so you only need slot them on 1 bar yet still persist on the off bar

TybaltKaine wrote: »

What would stop me from summoning them on my backbar, switching bars and equipping Oakensoul?

Pets offer a massive advantage in that they are persistent, deal damage, take hits, and heal you. It's two free companions, in addition to my actual companion and anything else I summon from sets (Mad Tinkerer, Morkuldin and Maw). Add an Atronach ultimate on top and I've got a small army at all times, and this change would let me equip Oakensoul with a full complement of slots at the cost of giving up a single summon set piece.

No thanks. I get enough hate as a HA Oakensoul Sorc who doesn't run the broken meta but everyone assumes does. I'd never be able to mind my business in PUG's again.

That's an easy one, putting on any Mythic item clears ability effects forcing you to recast them.

rpa · May 2023

How about slot em in 3 bars. Pack leader werewolf with sorc pets, anyone?

phaneub17_ESO · May 2023

Sorc pets should be changed so you only need slot them on 1 bar yet still persist on the off bar

Werewolf bar restricts you from placing anything other than werewolf abilities... YES! 5 active pets!

Skullstachio · May 2023

Sorc pets should be changed so you only need slot them on 1 bar yet still persist on the off bar

I'm all for this.

Plus the drawbacks would be noticable as some permanent summons have extra functionality when slotted and activated, and players would run the risk of not benefitting from said functionality unless they practice their rotation sufficiently.

What is questionable is if some ultimates are slotted on the frontbar with the bear ulti on backbar, if some ultimates have a long enough duration or DoT (and I mean long enough to have 75 ultimate before expiration) one could see a bit of interesting activity going on in the DPS department, particularly when the target is at less than 25% and the execution bonus kicks in for guardians wrath/savagery.

And as somebody else already pointed out, it would be quite questionable to see a werewolf running around with summoned daedra nearby that could complicate things outside of using armor sets that allow it like Maw.

Maxxermax · May 4

Sorc pets should be changed so you only need slot them on 1 bar yet still persist on the off bar

Since other skills—such as "shadowy disguise"—remain active off bar, it would be consistent if the Sorcerer's companion skills also remained active off bar.

LunaFlora · May 4

Sorc pets should be changed so you only need slot them on 1 bar yet still persist on the off bar

wow 2023, that is 3 years ago.

Sorcerer and Warden permanent combat pets should only need to be slotted on 1 skill bar

MasterBruslie · May 4

Sorc pets should be changed so you only need slot them on 1 bar yet still persist on the off bar

MaleAmazon wrote: »

I don´t play PTS and so can´t comment on the arcanist skill, but I read this and thought immediately of Blizzard´s answer on why they didn´t include weapon switching in Diablo 3, since it was in Diablo 2.

Their response was (paraphrased): "If weapon swap doesn´t give an advantage it is useless, and if it gives an advantage it becomes mandatory, which we do not want". IMO a sound argument.

ESO has weapon swap, and it is pretty much mandatory (Oakensoul barges in and wants a word, with werewolf in tow). I am fine with that design, it does what it is supposed to. Doesn´t mean you should add it to pets:

With sorcerer pets you would have, with different skill designs:

1 - Sorcerer pets are permanent unless killed, but do not persist throughout bar swap.

Result: What we have now, which is, in my opinion, bad enough. Having skills target the pet and not the sorcerer (TBH I am not sure how often this happens now since I don´t PvP at the moment, but...), or having wings flapping in your face so you cannot see what you are doing, is unenjoyable. But it is acceptable.

2 - Sorcerer pets stay after being summoned, but with a limited lifespan, and have stats adjusted accordingly.

Result: This would make them work as temporary buffs, essentially, instead of the permanent buffs we have now. Of course, things like Maw of the Infernal and (technically) Morkuldin already works this way. It would put them more in line with how other skills work, but be annoying for the user.

3 - Sorcerer pets are permanent and persist on swap.

Result: Either pets become useless, or everyone runs a max pet backbar and ESO dies in the droning sound of millions of flappy flappies and dinosaur wannabies flying and running around endlessly and aimlessly.

So, TLDR, NO.

IMHO

at 1 you mean every bar swap should despawn them even it is also slotted on the off bar. But they are to slow to summon to make them usefull in that case
at 3 they are persistent on bar swap if you slot them on both bars. But this cost you the douple amount of bar slots.

I would only agree to that if the summoning were to take place instantly.

CameraBeardThePirate · May 4

Sorc pets should be changed so you only need slot them on 1 bar yet still persist on the off bar

Pets as a whole need a total overhaul. That goes for Sorc, Necro, Warden, Werewolf, and even Nightblade (because yes, the Shade is in fact a pet).

ZOS made a very big stink about corpses (which count as pets) and pets last year, going so far as to flat out break Necromancer skills in PvP in the name of performance. That change has since been reverted, but the point stands: pets are extremely detrimental to the server.

Additionally, pets are extremely outdated in terms of mechanics. They count as their own source of damage (or healing in the case of Ghost) and thus cannot proc sets, have their own cooldown for mechanics like Diseased's AoE proc, and do not interact with many different sets, buffs, and debuffs the player applies to themselves. This stems from a day of one shot proc builds when ZOS didn't want pets one tapping players or mobs by proccing a bunch of sets at once, but this wouldn't really be a problem in today's meta where one shot procs don't really exist anymore.

Pets need a big change, and I have a feeling that the Warden rework will show how ZOS intends to tweak pets in all of the subsequent reworks.

NickBCool06 · May 4

Sorc pets should be changed so you only need slot them on 1 bar yet still persist on the off bar

Maxxermax wrote: »

Since other skills—such as "shadowy disguise"—remain active off bar, it would be consistent if the Sorcerer's companion skills also remained active off bar.

Agree

LunaFlora wrote: »

wow 2023, that is 3 years ago.

Sorcerer and Warden permanent combat pets should only need to be slotted on 1 skill bar

yes, but still relevant ... now more than ever, because now they listen.

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Pets as a whole need a total overhaul. That goes for Sorc, Necro, Warden, Werewolf, and even Nightblade (because yes, the Shade is in fact a pet).

ZOS made a very big stink about corpses (which count as pets) and pets last year, going so far as to flat out break Necromancer skills in PvP in the name of performance. That change has since been reverted, but the point stands: pets are extremely detrimental to the server.

Additionally, pets are extremely outdated in terms of mechanics. They count as their own source of damage (or healing in the case of Ghost) and thus cannot proc sets, have their own cooldown for mechanics like Diseased's AoE proc, and do not interact with many different sets, buffs, and debuffs the player applies to themselves. This stems from a day of one shot proc builds when ZOS didn't want pets one tapping players or mobs by proccing a bunch of sets at once, but this wouldn't really be a problem in today's meta where one shot procs don't really exist anymore.

Pets need a big change, and I have a feeling that the Warden rework will show how ZOS intends to tweak pets in all of the subsequent reworks.

I would sign off on that too.

CatalinaWineMixer2 · May 4

Sorc pets should be changed so you only need slot them on 1 bar yet still persist on the off bar

It's about time to start giving the Sorcerer some love again. And stop catering to Arcanists. Its already bad enough we had to give up HA cleave for the beamers. It needs to be brought back. Its already bad enough we have had Arcanist meta for 4 years. It needs to go. Its already bad enough people think a beam is necessary on every Class because they play video games and feel there are too many buttons to press - buy an Atari! Or stop playing video games. Its already bad enough Fatecarver has exploited Subclassing since its inception. Subclass needs to go. Its already bad enough there have been so many nerfs to the Sorcerer, its about impossible to keep track of how many there have been now - @Zos How many nerfs over the years for the Sorcerer? It's already bad enough we have constant disputes over the pets count and Subclassers think pets should be taken away. It's already bad enough we had to fight you again over Empower just to keep the Sorcerer worthy of being in Eso. Its already.... and it goes on and on and on... @Zos When will it end with the Sorcerer? At what point do you finally make a spreadsheet and start looking at what has happened to the once great Sorcerer? And why everyone dps in Eso has a beam?
There are people who like pet Sorcerer ands its about time they get as much attention as the Beamer and Assassination abusers.

wolfie1.0. · May 4

I want sorcs 3rd bar back.

NickBCool06 · May 8

Sorc pets should be changed so you only need slot them on 1 bar yet still persist on the off bar

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

I want sorcs 3rd bar back.

Now you're going to extremes.

IviRo · May 8

Why is there no third point?

- No pets

BXR_Lonestar · May 8

Sorc pets should be changed so you only need slot them on 1 bar yet still persist on the off bar

Honestly, I miss my max mag OG 2 bar petsorc running Maw of the Infernal, Alfiqi's, and Necropotence. Before they changed damage scaling, this build used to pump out some serious damage, have great heals, and was a TON of fun.

Highwayman · May 8

IviRo wrote: »

Why is there no third point?

- No pets

Right, or what about an option for 0 bars! If you have the skill line you automatically have pets active at all times! Just because I want to see the world burn.

ZOS_Icy · May 9

Greetings,

We have closed this topic as it was originally created in May 2023. In many cases, it's better to create a new thread on a topic that you want to discuss as opposed to bumping one that is rather old.

The Elder Scrolls Online Team