Sorc pets: 1 bar or 2 bars?

Thecompton73

With Arcanist Zos is introducing a skill that gives major sorcery/brutality passively for being slotted and the effect persists even when swapping bars. So it seems it should be possible to make Sorc Pets persist on the off bar after being cast to free up ability slots. Is this a change you'd be in favor of? Should Sorc pets still require a space on each bar to persist?

FeedbackOnly

Sorc pets should give a buff to group to make up for being in two bars.

Hamish999

Sorc pets should continue to require a slot on each bar and despawn when swapping to a bar they aren't slotted on

As someone who has a couple of pet sorcs I think they should still require being slotted on both bars.
Just as with Oakensoul meaning you lose the ability to bar swap for getting all those buffs, I think there should be a penalty to having what is basically free damage and/or heals. Plus they act as meat shields a lot of the time, especially in PVP.

FeedbackOnly

Hamish999 wrote: »

As someone who has a couple of pet sorcs I think they should still require being slotted on both bars.
Just as with Oakensoul meaning you lose the ability to bar swap for getting all those buffs, I think there should be a penalty to having what is basically free damage and/or heals. Plus they act as meat shields a lot of the time, especially in PVP.

Hamish999 wrote: »

As someone who has a couple of pet sorcs I think they should still require being slotted on both bars.
Just as with Oakensoul meaning you lose the ability to bar swap for getting all those buffs, I think there should be a penalty to having what is basically free damage and/or heals. Plus they act as meat shields a lot of the time, especially in PVP.

Not free damage, you get more with 2 skills

Quackery

1 bar - period.

Valkyrus

Sorc pets should continue to require a slot on each bar and despawn when swapping to a bar they aren't slotted on

It was my first thought when seeing Tome-Bearer's Inspiration, too. As a sorcerer main, it sure would be nice. I'm inclined to vote against one skill slot because they offer more than just a skill. They can draw aggro/hits and deal damage by themselves in addition to their activated skill. I sure would love to test it out if they could manage it on the pts.

Now, I'm a petless sorc, so take my opinion with a grain of salt. Though I do use Boundless Aegis on both bars to compensate. I would love that extra skill slot for more damage.

isadoraisacat

I think it’s fine on 2 bars it forces limitation which is balance.

CGPsaint

Sorc pets should be changed so you only need slot them on 1 bar yet still persist on the off bar

I think that pets should only need to be slotted on one bar, and should no longer deal passive damage in order to compensate for the change. You want damage, you need to activate the skills on your back bar just like you would have to for your AOEs and DOTs.

SoraJP

Sorc pets should be changed so you only need slot them on 1 bar yet still persist on the off bar

Same with Warden bear ult!

AcadianPaladin

Sorc pets should be changed so you only need slot them on 1 bar yet still persist on the off bar

I've often argued that sorc pets should be required on one bar only and persist when on the other bar. That said, I'd urge the requirement to be on their bar when casting their special ability.

Bottom line is, I won't play sorc pets using up 4 slots - just not worth it. With what I describe above, I might consider using sorc pets. Maybe.

Thecompton73

CGPsaint wrote: »

I think that pets should only need to be slotted on one bar, and should no longer deal passive damage in order to compensate for the change. You want damage, you need to activate the skills on your back bar just like you would have to for your AOEs and DOTs.

I don't think they'd need that drastic of a change. Perhaps add a minor 100 or 200 per second magic resource drain while they are out and in combat to balance it.

CGPsaint

Sorc pets should be changed so you only need slot them on 1 bar yet still persist on the off bar

Thecompton73 wrote: »

CGPsaint wrote: »

I think that pets should only need to be slotted on one bar, and should no longer deal passive damage in order to compensate for the change. You want damage, you need to activate the skills on your back bar just like you would have to for your AOEs and DOTs.

I don't think they'd need that drastic of a change. Perhaps add a minor 100 or 200 per second magic resource drain while they are out and in combat to balance it.

I would honestly prefer to have to activate the skills in my rotation similar to placing AOEs/DOTs, rather than have a resource drain. Sustain is already difficult enough when not rolling a Breton or using sustain sets.

carly

Sorc pets should continue to require a slot on each bar and despawn when swapping to a bar they aren't slotted on

I only use 1 pet at a time. My clannfear is my go to for dungeons, he keeps mobs off me so I can burn them down and Ember brings up the rear with nukes. I've only used the winged flappy when I'm doing the daily dragons quests. Otherwise - for overland I rarely use my pet at all so I'm fine with a pet using up one slot on each bar. I guess it depends on your playstyle but I've never enjoyed playing with 2 pets for some reason.

CGPsaint

Sorc pets should be changed so you only need slot them on 1 bar yet still persist on the off bar

carly wrote: »

I only use 1 pet at a time. My clannfear is my go to for dungeons, he keeps mobs off me so I can burn them down and Ember brings up the rear with nukes. I've only used the winged flappy when I'm doing the daily dragons quests. Otherwise - for overland I rarely use my pet at all so I'm fine with a pet using up one slot on each bar. I guess it depends on your playstyle but I've never enjoyed playing with 2 pets for some reason.

I'm glad that you enjoy using a pet for casual gameplay, however having to use 2 slots on both bars really hamstrings Sorc builds in more difficult content and PvP for sure.

SeaGtGruff

Sorc pets should be changed so you only need slot them on 1 bar yet still persist on the off bar

My feeling is that if other "over time" skills persist even if you swap bars and they aren't slotted on both bars, then summoned pets should, too. Are there any other "over time" skills that get canceled if you swap bars and they aren't on both bars? Any combat pets, any AOE DOTs or HOTs, anything? Or is it just Sorc pets that get canceled?

I'm wondering if this is the result of some change made years ago to help players unsummon their Sorc pets because they were too lazy to pop open their character sheet and right-click on the summoned pets in their list of active effects.

Hotdog_23

One bar is fine as long as they get rid of the permanent status. Give them the same treatment as Necro pets. Also do the same for Warden's bear. No, if they are still permanent. Said the same for years.

Stay safe

Amottica

Sorc pets should continue to require a slot on each bar and despawn when swapping to a bar they aren't slotted on

To work as they currently do it makes complete sense that they need to be on both bars. I would hate to see sorc pets behave more like Necro and Warden summons which is exactly what will happen if sorc pets only need to be on one bar. The first option in the poll is not a realistic outcome.

Thecompton73

isadoraisacat wrote: »

I think it’s fine on 2 bars it forces limitation which is balance.

Interesting. Can you explain more why the check of the 2 bar requirement is needed to keep them in balance?
The change would hypothetically give a Pet Sorc two more skill slots. How would they use them that would make them unbalanced?

phaneub17_ESO

Sorc pets should be changed so you only need slot them on 1 bar yet still persist on the off bar

The only caveat I would want in this scenario is your pets deal 10% reduced damage while on the off bar. I'm okay with them persisting between swapping bars, I would get very annoyed with them popping in and out on switching, or worse make them 15 minute duration pets then you would still have to recast them every time you zoned.

isadoraisacat

Thecompton73 wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

I think it’s fine on 2 bars it forces limitation which is balance.

Interesting. Can you explain more why the check of the 2 bar requirement is needed to keep them in balance?
The change would hypothetically give a Pet Sorc two more skill slots. How would they use them that would make them unbalanced?

Pets add extra damage, it’s a sacrifice if you want to continue that damage the whole rotation without re-summoning them you need to take up 4 slots in total. It is what it is. It’s like one bar builds you give up a lot for extra damage. Or those passive slots that boost damage you loose a skill but you gain a boost to damage. I don’t have a problem with any of those things. But I think having 2 pets go wild
Active from just you front bar when you swap
To bar 2 is too much. Just my opinion.


Btw I’m a one bar ha petsorc build now and prior I was a 2 bar light attack pet sorc. So there is not hate against the build as it’s my build I just find it too much.

Thecompton73

isadoraisacat wrote: »

Thecompton73 wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

I think it’s fine on 2 bars it forces limitation which is balance.

Interesting. Can you explain more why the check of the 2 bar requirement is needed to keep them in balance?
The change would hypothetically give a Pet Sorc two more skill slots. How would they use them that would make them unbalanced?

Pets add extra damage, it’s a sacrifice if you want to continue that damage the whole rotation without re-summoning them you need to take up 4 slots in total. It is what it is. It’s like one bar builds you give up a lot for extra damage. Or those passive slots that boost damage you loose a skill but you gain a boost to damage. I don’t have a problem with any of those things. But I think having 2 pets go wild
Active from just you front bar when you swap
To bar 2 is too much. Just my opinion.


Btw I’m a one bar ha petsorc build now and prior I was a 2 bar light attack pet sorc. So there is not hate against the build as it’s my build I just find it too much.

Your opinion is appreciated. I do see how having the advantages of the pets retained while adding two more abilities would allow a DPS to stack more dots and that might seem a bit much.
I play my sorc in PvP as no Pet so I don't have much experience with them myself. So very curious what two abilities Pet Sorc users would slot if the spaces were freed up? More dots for more damage? More healing or Utility? What abilities do Pet Sorc Mains wish they could slot if only they had the bar space?

isadoraisacat

Thecompton73 wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

Thecompton73 wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

I think it’s fine on 2 bars it forces limitation which is balance.

Interesting. Can you explain more why the check of the 2 bar requirement is needed to keep them in balance?
The change would hypothetically give a Pet Sorc two more skill slots. How would they use them that would make them unbalanced?

Pets add extra damage, it’s a sacrifice if you want to continue that damage the whole rotation without re-summoning them you need to take up 4 slots in total. It is what it is. It’s like one bar builds you give up a lot for extra damage. Or those passive slots that boost damage you loose a skill but you gain a boost to damage. I don’t have a problem with any of those things. But I think having 2 pets go wild
Active from just you front bar when you swap
To bar 2 is too much. Just my opinion.


Btw I’m a one bar ha petsorc build now and prior I was a 2 bar light attack pet sorc. So there is not hate against the build as it’s my build I just find it too much.

You're opinion is appreciated. I do see how having the advantages of the pets retained while adding two more abilities would allow a DPS to stack more dots and that might seem a bit much.
I play my sorc in PvP as no Pet so I don't have much experience with them myself. So very curious what two abilities Pet Sorc users would slot if the spaces were freed up? More dots for more damage? More healing or Utility? What abilities do Pet Sorc Mains wish they could slot if only they had the bar space?

Honestly it wound do definitely increase dps by a lot you can include a passive and a dot and really push the dps. I think things that push dps are fine as long as there is some kind of sacrifice or something taken away. If that makes sense.

Even with my heavy attack build I’d be ok with them removing the buffs from the oakensoul as long as they leave empower alone so we have to rely on ourselves to heal through battles rather than Tank it out. (I’d rather no nerfs to this item ) but if they were gonna choose I think they should have done that instead.

It’s hard to find a good balance but I think if they had 1 bar for pets it would cause the same issues our builds are facing with oakensoul and too many people complaining about it doing too much damage.

A lot of people already find pets annoying as it is too.

Liguar

Sorc pets should continue to require a slot on each bar and despawn when swapping to a bar they aren't slotted on

Pet-free sorc opinion- if you want your flappy, then you accept that you slot it on both bars and de-summon it out of combat, please and thank you.

MerguezMan

Sorc pets should be changed so you only need slot them on 1 bar yet still persist on the off bar

Change pet skills :
Base skill and morph 1 as the skills are now, forcing you to double-bar pet skills
Morph 2 adds a timer, like 30s summon, but removes the need to double-bar these skills

Grizzbeorn

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Are there any other "over time" skills that get canceled if you swap bars and they aren't on both bars? Any combat pets, any AOE DOTs or HOTs, anything? Or is it just Sorc pets that get canceled?

It's not exactly an "over time" skill, but the Warden Bear gets canceled if not on both bars and you switch bars.

MaleAmazon

Sorc pets should continue to require a slot on each bar and despawn when swapping to a bar they aren't slotted on

I don´t play PTS and so can´t comment on the arcanist skill, but I read this and thought immediately of Blizzard´s answer on why they didn´t include weapon switching in Diablo 3, since it was in Diablo 2.

Their response was (paraphrased): "If weapon swap doesn´t give an advantage it is useless, and if it gives an advantage it becomes mandatory, which we do not want". IMO a sound argument.

ESO has weapon swap, and it is pretty much mandatory (Oakensoul barges in and wants a word, with werewolf in tow). I am fine with that design, it does what it is supposed to. Doesn´t mean you should add it to pets:

With sorcerer pets you would have, with different skill designs:

1 - Sorcerer pets are permanent unless killed, but do not persist throughout bar swap.

Result: What we have now, which is, in my opinion, bad enough. Having skills target the pet and not the sorcerer (TBH I am not sure how often this happens now since I don´t PvP at the moment, but...), or having wings flapping in your face so you cannot see what you are doing, is unenjoyable. But it is acceptable.

2 - Sorcerer pets stay after being summoned, but with a limited lifespan, and have stats adjusted accordingly.

Result: This would make them work as temporary buffs, essentially, instead of the permanent buffs we have now. Of course, things like Maw of the Infernal and (technically) Morkuldin already works this way. It would put them more in line with how other skills work, but be annoying for the user.

3 - Sorcerer pets are permanent and persist on swap.

Result: Either pets become useless, or everyone runs a max pet backbar and ESO dies in the droning sound of millions of flappy flappies and dinosaur wannabies flying and running around endlessly and aimlessly.

So, TLDR, NO.

IMHO

ghastley

I would go further. Limit the player to one companion, assistant, or pet at a time, and non-combat pets are included. Maybe even include the mount, so any of those need to be re-summoned when you dismount.

Tracking fewer actors has to be better for performance.

SedoUmbra

Sorc pets should be changed so you only need slot them on 1 bar yet still persist on the off bar

I'll be honest, I clicked 1 bar but I don't know other abilities I would even add if I could

SacredNym

Sorc pets should continue to require a slot on each bar and despawn when swapping to a bar they aren't slotted on

I voted for two bar for one simple reason. Sorc pets are so powerful they're basically mandatory in spite of their cost to bar space. If this mechanic were to be changed the pets would need to be significantly nerfed.

Soarora

I have no idea honestly. From a tank perspective, it could be nice to have that extra spot for more debuffs or healing or sad damage. However, having the heal on both bars can be helpful and if it was only 1 bar people could use clannfear as a crutch when they don’t need to. Though, how many people are sorc tanking haha.

As for warden, I guess it’d be nice to slot destro backbar so I can use my big ult and not waste most of it. And make sure I’m ulting on the right bar.

Can’t comment on sorc DPS or healer. I’ve done those builds but not very well or for very long.

Katlefiya

Sorc pets should be changed so you only need slot them on 1 bar yet still persist on the off bar

SacredNym wrote: »

I voted for two bar for one simple reason. Sorc pets are so powerful they're basically mandatory in spite of their cost to bar space. If this mechanic were to be changed the pets would need to be significantly nerfed.

They are that powerful only because of Daedric Prey, which requires another bar space, has to be cast on target and costs additional magicka. Not exactly "free" damage.