Update 50 PTS – Week 3 Summary

Wuuffyy · May 4

KaironBlackbard wrote: »

My questions:
1) Does Prowl fix our ability to duck under the Graven Deep lasers of death or not? That's the main reason we have been calling for Crouch. Mechanical Problems that require Crouch. As many have said in other threads, we don't like having to untransform to get past a laser.
2) Can we still last 45 seconds easily off one set of 250 ultimate? Or are we toast? From what I read it's 100 ult every 10 seconds which is insanely pricey.
3) Does WW Ultgen effects bypass the ultgen cap without using corpses? Because if not then we won't last as long as we used to under the previous version with the timer in high level content.

///

1) I doubt it especially with an increased player model size as we have now as that sounds like an obscure interaction that would be easily missed (I don't know for sure). *I misunderstood I think. Prowl is not actually stealth so unless bugged (?) think poster below is right in that it won't count for that mechanic.

2) Depends. Constant combat, sure. Constant corpses, sure. Neither of the 2 but stuck 'in combat'?... on berserker, no- price is still pretty high while in combat but not directly engaged. Things you can do to alleviate this but there will always be an opportunity cost of course.

3) No, 500 ult cap like normal. No storing beyond that. Can transform out but transforming back in will always cost you the 100 ult before reductions basically immediately (and the next 'tick' seems to come pretty quickly after).

tomofhyrule · May 4

KaironBlackbard wrote: »

My questions:
1) Does Prowl fix our ability to duck under the Graven Deep lasers of death or not? That's the main reason we have been calling for Crouch. Mechanical Problems that require Crouch. As many have said in other threads, we don't like having to untransform to get past a laser.
2) Can we still last 45 seconds easily off one set of 250 ultimate? Or are we toast? From what I read it's 100 ult every 10 seconds which is insanely pricey.
3) Does WW Ultgen effects bypass the ultgen cap without using corpses? Because if not then we won't last as long as we used to under the previous version with the timer in high level content.

For #1 at least: no

I tested WW in March of Sacrifices' Tarcyr fight, and still there's no way (except doing the sides) that will allow you to not be teleported during it. It's certainly a choice to make werewolves unable to do the werewolf dungeon in werewolf form.
I assume that this also means that werewolves are also barred from Lord Hollowjack as well, since that is actively looking for characters in a crouching state.

gammelscroll · May 4

Are you really letting DK to be absurdly broken with new patch 50?
If so, so many players gonna quit PvP. Cyrodil is already dead. And all you see in BG is DK dkdkdkdkdkdkdkd and another dking DK.

nightbringer1993 · May 4

gammelscroll wrote: »

Are you really letting DK to be absurdly broken with new patch 50?
If so, so many players gonna quit PvP. Cyrodil is already dead. And all you see in BG is DK dkdkdkdkdkdkdkd and another dking DK.

Since the DK update I have completely stopped PvP. And necro close to being unplayable ain’t helping at bringing me back to the game.

huskandhunger · May 4

nightbringer1993 wrote: »

gammelscroll wrote: »

Are you really letting DK to be absurdly broken with new patch 50?
If so, so many players gonna quit PvP. Cyrodil is already dead. And all you see in BG is DK dkdkdkdkdkdkdkd and another dking DK.

Since the DK update I have completely stopped PvP. And necro close to being unplayable ain’t helping at bringing me back to the game.

This year they doing Class Updates and they going to update the Necromancer too it is coming 💪💪

nightbringer1993 · May 4

huskandhunger wrote: »

nightbringer1993 wrote: »

gammelscroll wrote: »

Are you really letting DK to be absurdly broken with new patch 50?
If so, so many players gonna quit PvP. Cyrodil is already dead. And all you see in BG is DK dkdkdkdkdkdkdkd and another dking DK.

Since the DK update I have completely stopped PvP. And necro close to being unplayable ain’t helping at bringing me back to the game.

This year they doing Class Updates and they going to update the Necromancer too it is coming 💪💪

For now the necro update is winter 2027, and I completely don't understand why the devs chose this order, this paid class is completely destroyed, and needs a refresh asap.

For years we have been asking for this, and then when the class refresh is announced, we are last on the list, a complete insult to us!

Right now as I said earlier, I am about to stop playing the game if the necro refresh is not moved to this year, and if they don't see reason, then I am out. I don't see why I should continue to give money for nothing in return. And as there is a lot of time until winter 2027, many things can happen until then, and we might never see that refresh looking at the world situation right now.

coop500 · May 4

Yeah it's kind of crazy to delay Necro so much. A year and a half away, dear goodness that's a long time... For the class that is arguably the most clunky disaster.

YandereGirlfriend · May 4

Can we see some compensation for the Rakkhat Mythic?

It took as an absolutely massive nerf with the Damage Done changes and has not been buffed in any way since the original PTS Notes.

The ratio of power provided by Rakkhat to Empower in U49 vs. U50 is going to be astronomical for the worse.

Erickson9610 · May 4

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Can we see some compensation for the Rakkhat Mythic?

It took as an absolutely massive nerf with the Damage Done changes and has not been buffed in any way since the original PTS Notes.

The ratio of power provided by Rakkhat to Empower in U49 vs. U50 is going to be astronomical for the worse.

Adding to this, can Rakkhat's Voidmantle be adjusted to work with Werewolf? It was set to "non-Ultimate" Light and Heavy Attacks because of the interaction with Overload, but Werewolf got hit in the crossfire. This set cannot be used with Werewolf Light and Heavy Attacks because they technically count as Ultimate Light and Heavy Attacks.

GarrisonLukain · May 4

Overall, Great changes guys!

I'd like to chime in a little on the werewolf.

I like to see the overall balancing happening. As a Werewolf Main since Launch, I really hope to see werewolf viable in the Meta. it's currently very strong in PVE I get that. But it lacks a lot of survivability that a whole class kit would provide. I get concerned when I see that you will be nerfing damage and not providing more survivability such (Spamable damage Shields, Major protection, HOTS, ECT) It's DPS was the only thing making it competitive in PVE as far as I've been able to test.

LOVE the animations! running on all fours is a MUST for a true werewolf fan! All audio and visual changes are PEAK.

I love the small detail of being able to sheath your claws and not idle like your constantly out of breath in combat. Really adds a great RP layer.

Lastly, I feel the out of combat werewolf speed needs to match mount speeds. with the AMAZING addition (or subtraction) of the werewolf timer out of combat (by far my favorite change you guys have made to the WHOLE game btw. It's been my nerdy dream to traverse Tamriel as a Werewolf since I was 16...many moons ago lol), It would really be a simple non-combat benefit for choosing werewolf and would allow us to really immerse ourselves in the RP of the beast. Cherry on top please lol.

Great work though ZOS! killing it.

IncultaWolf · May 4

Erickson9610 wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Can we see some compensation for the Rakkhat Mythic?

It took as an absolutely massive nerf with the Damage Done changes and has not been buffed in any way since the original PTS Notes.

The ratio of power provided by Rakkhat to Empower in U49 vs. U50 is going to be astronomical for the worse.

Adding to this, can Rakkhat's Voidmantle be adjusted to work with Werewolf? It was set to "non-Ultimate" Light and Heavy Attacks because of the interaction with Overload, but Werewolf got hit in the crossfire. This set cannot be used with Werewolf Light and Heavy Attacks because they technically count as Ultimate Light and Heavy Attacks.

Agreed. Especially since werewolf lost their faster heavy attacks and aoe cleave on heavies

ZOS_JessicaFolsom · May 4

Wuuffyy wrote: »

I just learned from a kind forum-goer that the weapon and spell damage for werewolf has been bugged while dueling in 'overland' since the change last PTS week. The passive is bugged and has been giving the FULL PvE VALUE (33% weapon and spell damage) while not in an actual PVP area.

This is yet another item/issue GREATLY inflating ‘PvP parses’ artificially, whether this be on stats page and/or in combat, if so.

Proof:

Control (normal 'overland' weapon/spell damage). Location: Glenumbra bridge outside of town:

Control (normal nerfed 'Battle Spirit' weapon/spell damage). Location: Imperial City Sewers, in base:

Proof of 'bugged' wep/spell in dueling while in overland content. Yet another bug/exploit that could be 'inflating parses'. Location: Glenumbra bridge outside of town (player visible in background):

Is the team aware of this *visual bug?

Hi @Wuuffyy, yep, we're aware the tooltip can display incorrect values and we are not using these incorrect values to inform any balance decisions. The more technical explanation from the team is "The tooltip only displays a very basic level client inquiry that tries to run the same requirement list, but since it lacks specialized contexts for target swapping (the client always assumes itself is the target), it can produce incorrect reports."

Wuuffyy · May 4

Thank you, much appreciated on that from you and the team!!

YandereGirlfriend · May 5

More Rakkhat information based upon some recent parses (pureSorc, Sergeant's + Storm Master):

Oakensoul: 126k
Anthelmir: 130k
Rakkhat: 133k

Based upon this, we see that Rakkhat is a measly 5% ahead of Oakensoul formats and 2% ahead of Anthelmir. In other words, the set is currently failing the very basic test of justifying its own existence.

Why would a player ever choose Rakkhat under these conditions? Vs Oakensoul particularly, when Oakensoul gives you:

Infinite sustain (vs. the resource penalty of Rakkhat)
Simple one-bar format
Permanent Empower (vs. the clunky Contingency weaving of Rakkhat)
Minor Slayer
Vastly improved tankiness with tons of defensive buffs

Oakensoul and Anthelmir are completely fine where they are but Rakkhat NEEDS additional help. It is THE Heavy Attack Mythic. Like literally that is the ONLY thing that it does in the game. It even has a "curse" component to it that justifies additional power. So if it is only fractionally better at actually increasing Heavy Attack DPS then it is massively failing at filling its intended niche in the game.

@ZOS_Kevin Is it intended that Rakkhat to be in this weakened position? Are folk aware that it has completely fallen between the cracks during this PTS?

ImPoStier · May 5

Can we get some Templar buffs please, their class sets are useless, they have the worst sustain in the game, they have the lowest damage, and they don’t have a good class ult, they have nothing, they are so weak you won’t even take one for the 300 weapon and spell damage

Buff the mastery to 2k
Buff nova damage and make it cost less
Remove the circle condition from lancer
Reduce the cost of all their skills
This would make Templar good

xStaticx · May 5

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

More Rakkhat information based upon some recent parses (pureSorc, Sergeant's + Storm Master):

Oakensoul: 126k
Anthelmir: 130k
Rakkhat: 133k

Based upon this, we see that Rakkhat is a measly 5% ahead of Oakensoul formats and 2% ahead of Anthelmir. In other words, the set is currently failing the very basic test of justifying its own existence.

Why would a player ever choose Rakkhat under these conditions? Vs Oakensoul particularly, when Oakensoul gives you:

Infinite sustain (vs. the resource penalty of Rakkhat)
Simple one-bar format
Permanent Empower (vs. the clunky Contingency weaving of Rakkhat)
Minor Slayer
Vastly improved tankiness with tons of defensive buffs

Oakensoul and Anthelmir are completely fine where they are but Rakkhat NEEDS additional help. It is THE Heavy Attack Mythic. Like literally that is the ONLY thing that it does in the game. It even has a "curse" component to it that justifies additional power. So if it is only fractionally better at actually increasing Heavy Attack DPS then it is massively failing at filling its intended niche in the game.

@ZOS_Kevin Is it intended that Rakkhat to be in this weakened position? Are folk aware that it has completely fallen between the cracks during this PTS?

100% agree.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Thank you for everything you do pointing out this issue. Really appreciate it.

imPDA · May 5

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hi @Wuuffyy, yep, we're aware the tooltip can display incorrect values and we are not using these incorrect values to inform any balance decisions. The more technical explanation from the team is "The tooltip only displays a very basic level client inquiry that tries to run the same requirement list, but since it lacks specialized contexts for target swapping (the client always assumes itself is the target), it can produce incorrect reports."

Is it something what can be fixed in finite amount of time? It not only visual bug, but it also makes some sets work differently from intended and described, I described one example recently, Oakfather's Retribution, which should work only against enemies, but in fact it also increases you healing (against yourself ofc, because it increases your WPD/SPD against yourself, so all healing you apply to yourself receives this buff).

Technical team explained how it works correctly, but it also means they understand it is incorrect implementation leading to bugs. It has two major problems:
1) Incorrect tooltip. Tooltip is the main thing players analyze their builds with, and with incorrect tooltips game makes them to take incorrect decisions. You can hope they are rare, but they are not as rare as you hope.
2) Incorrect set behaviour - I have one example above, who knows what else works incorrectly, with more sets incoming, some set can become OP just because of old bug which could be and should be fixed long ago.

Darkness734 · May 6

Why is werewolf being continuously nerfed seriously. Whats the point of the refresh if youre going to nerf it into the ground. I was excited for the next official patch to release this and now not so much.

if its just going to be a coat of new paint and no real buff im definitely not coming back to eso

ImPoStier · May 7

Darkness734 wrote: »

Why is werewolf being continuously nerfed seriously. Whats the point of the refresh if youre going to nerf it into the ground. I was excited for the next official patch to release this and now not so much.

if its just going to be a coat of new paint and no real buff im definitely not coming back to eso

Werewolf is fine, it was hitting over 200k now it’s hitting in the 190s it’s nowhere near nerfed into the ground

Fenrir_Legacy · 12:48AM

tomofhyrule wrote: »

KaironBlackbard wrote: »

My questions:
1) Does Prowl fix our ability to duck under the Graven Deep lasers of death or not? That's the main reason we have been calling for Crouch. Mechanical Problems that require Crouch. As many have said in other threads, we don't like having to untransform to get past a laser.
2) Can we still last 45 seconds easily off one set of 250 ultimate? Or are we toast? From what I read it's 100 ult every 10 seconds which is insanely pricey.
3) Does WW Ultgen effects bypass the ultgen cap without using corpses? Because if not then we won't last as long as we used to under the previous version with the timer in high level content.

For #1 at least: no

I tested WW in March of Sacrifices' Tarcyr fight, and still there's no way (except doing the sides) that will allow you to not be teleported during it. It's certainly a choice to make werewolves unable to do the werewolf dungeon in werewolf form.
I assume that this also means that werewolves are also barred from Lord Hollowjack as well, since that is actively looking for characters in a crouching state.

Invisibility potions work for those situations. You wont be able to sprint however. Have been soloing hollowjack as werewolf for quite a few years. Crouch still needs to happen, werewolf used to have crouch. The animation for werewolf crouch is still in the game ironically. Can only be seen through a bug however.