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why make subclassing if passives work only with pure class?
Sugram22
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like seriously, why add subclass system if its only useful if u combine grave lord, animal companion and Deadrick summoning (for ultimate pet build)? sins passives work only with pure class with class skills slotted
passives need subclass effects other vise subclassing is useless, currently u loose more with subclassing then gain, its low key scam cause they give players to lure them back and keep some in who wand more unique builds something that is basically useless, not rewarding like it would be if passives were not class skill locked (like need to slot class skill to make passives work) instead u get penalties for subclassing
Edited by Sugram22 on April 23, 2026 1:42PM passives need subclass effects other vise subclassing is useless, currently u loose more with subclassing then gain, its low key scam cause they give players to lure them back and keep some in who wand more unique builds something that is basically useless, not rewarding like it would be if passives were not class skill locked (like need to slot class skill to make passives work) instead u get penalties for subclassing
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imPDA✭✭✭✭Mistake of youth. This relatively new game is constantly looking for a new mechanics nobody asked for.
P.S. Hope subclassing can be just wiped off in next updates; it would be the best outcome.Edited by imPDA on April 22, 2026 5:27PMYour Friendly Neighborhood PvP Enjoyer (prior to U48)24 -
Sugram22✭✭✭Mistake of youth. This relatively new game is constantly looking for a new mechanics nobody asked for.
P.S. Hope subclassing can be just wiped off in next updates; it would be the best outcome.
considering zos past, they wont, unless it has something game braking, they have done a lot of things players didn't like, and they have never gone back on what they did1 -
Tyrobag✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Mistake of youth. This relatively new game is constantly looking for a new mechanics nobody asked for.
P.S. Hope subclassing can be just wiped off in next updates; it would be the best outcome.
Actually, multiclassing was and has been one of the most requested features over the life of this 10+ year old game.
P.S. Hope classes an just be fully dissolved in next updates; it would be the best outcome.7 -
MincMincMinc✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Just remember that zos has been saying we need vengeance and must streamline skills and combat as a whole for performance. Then immediately after, we see them add new layers of power creep and effects to calculate on the server.
No wonder we need a mini cyrodil so they can cut the max pvp population in half again. If zos has to cut faction sizes down from 100, it is probably going to be 60 players or 48 players a faction.............Guys this used to be a usual pvp guild group size back in the day.......At a certain point we will start seeing pve overland zones lag just as bad.Edited by MincMincMinc on April 22, 2026 7:47PMI only use insightful
BG MMR should NOT reset, zos sponsored smurfing is a terrible design choice.
PvP needs more incentives, even simple potion mats or gold would be better than rewards for the worthy inventory bloat7 -
tsaescishoeshiner✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭We're getting a great overall outcome where both subclassing exists as an option and non-subclassed builds get buffs to be competitive.
I hope it's balanced so that there's build variety, but high-end DPS roles tend to be somewhat narrower anyway.PC-NA
in-game: @tsaescishoeshiner7 -
Athory✭✭✭✭like seriously, why add subclass system if its only useful if u combine grave lord, animal companion and Deadrick summoning (for ultimate pet build)? sins passives work only with pure class with class skills slotted
passives need subclass effects other vise subclassing is useless, currently u loose more with subclassing then gain, its low key scam
Simple.
Subclassing should never have been added to the game, at least not in its current form.- No one asked for it.
- No one expected it.
- And frankly, it doesn’t make any sense.
Ideally, it should be removed entirely. But since that’s unlikely, I just hope ZOS reworks it to the point where it’s no longer worth using, similar to what happened with Oakensoul. It used to be great; now it’s just.... useless.
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MincMincMinc✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »We're getting a great overall outcome where both subclassing exists as an option and non-subclassed builds get buffs to be competitive.
I hope it's balanced so that there's build variety, but high-end DPS roles tend to be somewhat narrower anyway.
IDK, I think people are drooling over the passives thinking pre subclassing..........However compared to subclassing I dont think theyll hold up.
Like comparing a normal stamsorc vs a subclassed Storm/animal/assassin we are not even close. Atleast for now I would trade both dark magic and daedric for animal alone. Getting assassination is just icing on the cake.I only use insightful
BG MMR should NOT reset, zos sponsored smurfing is a terrible design choice.
PvP needs more incentives, even simple potion mats or gold would be better than rewards for the worthy inventory bloat1 -
ApoAlaia✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Mistake of youth. This relatively new game is constantly looking for a new mechanics nobody asked for.
P.S. Hope subclassing can be just wiped off in next updates; it would be the best outcome.
And ToT and PvP as well, that way all the effort can go into the things I like, and because the things I like is what is best for the game everyone wins.5 -
wolfie1.0.✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭like seriously, why add subclass system if its only useful if u combine grave lord, animal companion and Deadrick summoning (for ultimate pet build)? sins passives work only with pure class with class skills slotted
passives need subclass effects other vise subclassing is useless, currently u loose more with subclassing then gain, its low key scam
Simple.
Subclassing should never have been added to the game, at least not in its current form.- No one asked for it.
- No one expected it.
- And frankly, it doesn’t make any sense.
Ideally, it should be removed entirely. But since that’s unlikely, I just hope ZOS reworks it to the point where it’s no longer worth using, similar to what happened with Oakensoul. It used to be great; now it’s just.... useless.
Please dont make definitive blanket statements that are inherently false. There are players that requested the ability to take skill lines from other classes. There are even valid arguments that explain why it makes more sense than a class based system.
As for expecting it? Thats up for debate too. Plenty of people were expecting it. For me it wasn't that it was coming that was a surprise, it was the lack of effort to balance the class lines before it went live.
So your three major points are refutes with simple responses.
Also, Oakensoul isnt useless. It still has a use case. Just because its not as OP as before doesn't mean it doesn't have power.
And if thats your definition of useless, well have fun chasing the meta every update.7 -
Apollosipod✭✭✭✭✭like seriously, why add subclass system if its only useful if u combine grave lord, animal companion and Deadrick summoning (for ultimate pet build)? sins passives work only with pure class with class skills slotted
passives need subclass effects other vise subclassing is useless, currently u loose more with subclassing then gain, its low key scam
Simple.
Subclassing should never have been added to the game, at least not in its current form.- No one asked for it.
- No one expected it.
- And frankly, it doesn’t make any sense.
Ideally, it should be removed entirely. But since that’s unlikely, I just hope ZOS reworks it to the point where it’s no longer worth using, similar to what happened with Oakensoul. It used to be great; now it’s just.... useless.
Eh, I enjoy it7 -
Vaqual✭✭✭✭✭
✭Instead of reigning in a moderate number of outlier combinations they decided to add another layer of complexity to the problem. Absolutely horrible move with no real value from a gameplay perspective, when those mechs could have been baked into proper reworks anyway.6 -
DestroyerPewnack✭✭✭✭✭Mistake of youth. This relatively new game is constantly looking for a new mechanics nobody asked for.
P.S. Hope subclassing can be just wiped off in next updates; it would be the best outcome.
Totally agreed.
The original devs of the game had it right. You could play any role on any class, but specific classes did better for specific jobs, (DK tanks, Templar healers, etc.) Not all classes had access to all buffs from their native toolkits, which meant that they were all needed for trials, to compliment each other.
They understood that limitations are what gave meaning to player choice. Today's devs added hybridization, scribing and subclassing, thinking that by removing all limitations, they would give players more choices. But this had the opposite effect, and now we all play the same 2 or 3 builds, to even be able to keep up with the meta.
I also wish they would reverse these changes, even though I know it's impossible, because it would involve the devs admitting that they have taken their game in the wrong direction for years. And they simply can't do that.7 -
DestroyerPewnack✭✭✭✭✭Mistake of youth. This relatively new game is constantly looking for a new mechanics nobody asked for.
P.S. Hope subclassing can be just wiped off in next updates; it would be the best outcome.
Actually, multiclassing was and has been one of the most requested features over the life of this 10+ year old game.
P.S. Hope classes an just be fully dissolved in next updates; it would be the best outcome.
No, it wasn't one of the most requested features.
The next updates will introduce class masteries for pure classes. Fortunately, classes aren't going anywhere.0 -
CatalinaWineMixer2✭✭✭✭Subclassing needs to go. It is a cherry picking system that can not and will not ever be balanced. Every person who purchased the game did so understanding that it has and has always had Class and Role based systems. It is not Skyrim. Or any other game.3
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peacenote✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭DestroyerPewnack wrote: »Mistake of youth. This relatively new game is constantly looking for a new mechanics nobody asked for.
P.S. Hope subclassing can be just wiped off in next updates; it would be the best outcome.
Totally agreed.
The original devs of the game had it right. You could play any role on any class, but specific classes did better for specific jobs, (DK tanks, Templar healers, etc.) Not all classes had access to all buffs from their native toolkits, which meant that they were all needed for trials, to compliment each other.
They understood that limitations are what gave meaning to player choice. Today's devs added hybridization, scribing and subclassing, thinking that by removing all limitations, they would give players more choices. But this had the opposite effect, and now we all play the same 2 or 3 builds, to even be able to keep up with the meta.
Yep, I miss those days, when all classes could not access all buffs. And I'll add that limitations are often what drives the creation of creative builds.
That said, while I have always disliked hybridization and miss when it mattered that I had both stam and mag alts of a class to experiment with, I have had my own fun with both scribing and subclassing...moreso with scribing. I do wonder if some kind of balance can be struck as opposed to wishing for a full reversal.3 -
SolarRune✭✭✭✭I didn't like the idea if subclassing when launched, but running as healer or tank I have ended up really enjoyed the flexibility and huge number of viable builds possible for these roles. Unfortunately the balance for DDs is not currently there I'm hoping this is sorted through the class refresh and class mastery passives without adversely impacting the flexibility it's given the support roles.1 -
Gabriel_H✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Choice. Next question?PC EU
Never get involved in a land war in Asia - it's one of the classic blunders!1 -
Renato90085✭✭✭✭✭
✭wait? currently u loose more with subclassing then gain?
are you subclass only have dark magic/shadow/living death?3 -
Sugram22✭✭✭
no argument there that stakes are high
i did say if it has something game braking, this incudes balance, then they probably will
if passives wont work without class skills being slotted u gain skill but loose damage, unless ur doing pet build, combine all 3 pet skill trees cause pets do damage for u, if not u loose more then gainRenato90085 wrote: »wait? currently u loose more with subclassing then gain?
are you subclass only have dark magic/shadow/living death?
Edited by Sugram22 on April 23, 2026 7:02PM0 -
SolarRune✭✭✭✭Looking at recent trial runs I have been in, it seems that pureclass DK has taken over the subclassed beam build in popularity and in many cases in actual trial boss damage.3
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Sugram22✭✭✭MincMincMinc wrote: »tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »We're getting a great overall outcome where both subclassing exists as an option and non-subclassed builds get buffs to be competitive.
I hope it's balanced so that there's build variety, but high-end DPS roles tend to be somewhat narrower anyway.
IDK, I think people are drooling over the passives thinking pre subclassing..........However compared to subclassing I dont think theyll hold up.
Like comparing a normal stamsorc vs a subclassed Storm/animal/assassin we are not even close. Atleast for now I would trade both dark magic and daedric for animal alone. Getting assassination is just icing on the cake.
but if u don't have class skill slotted ur passives don't do SH, so if u go for 2 subclasses and if its not pet build third second subclass don't do SH for u, its useless, with 1 subclass it could work but is the bonus enough to sacrifice even 1 class tree, that's the question
they should just add new skills/spells and freedom to chose skills/spells like in other ES games would be better then zos version of subclassing, more unique builds, even new bow skills to chose from to make more unique builds so less chars are the same
Edited by Sugram22 on April 23, 2026 1:16PM0 -
Athory✭✭✭✭wolfie1.0. wrote: »like seriously, why add subclass system if its only useful if u combine grave lord, animal companion and Deadrick summoning (for ultimate pet build)? sins passives work only with pure class with class skills slotted
passives need subclass effects other vise subclassing is useless, currently u loose more with subclassing then gain, its low key scam
Simple.
Subclassing should never have been added to the game, at least not in its current form.- No one asked for it.
- No one expected it.
- And frankly, it doesn’t make any sense.
Ideally, it should be removed entirely. But since that’s unlikely, I just hope ZOS reworks it to the point where it’s no longer worth using, similar to what happened with Oakensoul. It used to be great; now it’s just.... useless.
Please dont make definitive blanket statements that are inherently false. There are players that requested the ability to take skill lines from other classes. There are even valid arguments that explain why it makes more sense than a class based system.
As for expecting it? Thats up for debate too. Plenty of people were expecting it. For me it wasn't that it was coming that was a surprise, it was the lack of effort to balance the class lines before it went live.
So your three major points are refutes with simple responses.
Also, Oakensoul isnt useless. It still has a use case. Just because its not as OP as before doesn't mean it doesn't have power.
And if thats your definition of useless, well have fun chasing the meta every update.
Ok… 40 players ask for subclassing, while 4,000 don’t. Was this really something the majority of players wanted? Do you know the exact numbers?
Does subclassing make sense? For you, yes, that’s fine. For me, it doesn’t, and I’m entitled to my opinion.
Subclassing doesn’t make any sense in ESO. Is your opinion more valid than mine?Classes should be different from each other — with unique skills, different types of damage, and everything that defines a class as its own identity. Adding subclassing just makes everyone feel the same… how does that make sense?!
If anyone asks for my opinion, here it is: for every skill you use outside your class, you lose 10% damage. Simple as that.
Players expect subclassing? Which players? Who even knows about it? Players expect a lot of things… but this mess they added to the game? No. No one expected it... unless someone had inside knowledge of what was coming.
Is Oakensoul a good item? Don’t forget to use it in the new Vestige difficulty. Have fun!
Edited by Athory on April 23, 2026 1:56PM🔊::【 Zaan's – Songs & Parodies】::
Songs inspired by frustrations and experiences in The Elder Scrolls ̶̭̲̺̥̗̒̓̅̈́̑͒͝Ŏ̵̢̨̯͕̟̣͔̲̞̭̿̕n̷͈̼̪̯̤͈̏ḻ̶̢͇̣̻̥̘͎̪͚̓̂i̶̙̠̒ň̵͎͇̱͙͊͐̓́̿̏̂̔̚e̷̫͊̅.
ᴇɴᴊᴏʏ ᴛʜᴇ ᴄʜᴀᴏꜱ.2 -
CalamityCat✭✭✭✭✭When subclassing was first revealed, the obvious thought was "you haven't thought this through, have you?"
If you are bored enough, hunt for the test centre threads when subclassing was first on test. You'll find pure class players were asking for balance and some love for pure classes right at the very start. Because it was obvious that subclassing was wildly OP compared with pure classing. Instead a lot of overpowered stuff happened as a result of subclassing going live with very gentle touch balance applied to it.
So what's happened now is IMHO the result of a badly implemented system being kept because players want to subclass, followed by a change of direction to support pure builds with class passives and make them more competitive.
We don't know how the final balance is going to look when we're only 1 class in, with passives that we were told are subject to change and aim to adjust balance while the classes get their own revamp. So I wouldn't get too hung up or happy/sad about any of them, just in case!
I don't think subclassing will be the strongest option in future, but it shouldn't have been at the outset. When you could obviously combine 3 DD lines together, it was clear you would do far more damage than a pure class with three diversified skill lines. The more creative thematic subclass builds have also been weaker sometimes, because once you depart from the most popular lines it hits your DPS.
Tl, dr - we're probably stuck with the sticky plaster "solutions"
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Sugram22✭✭✭wolfie1.0. wrote: »like seriously, why add subclass system if its only useful if u combine grave lord, animal companion and Deadrick summoning (for ultimate pet build)? sins passives work only with pure class with class skills slotted
passives need subclass effects other vise subclassing is useless, currently u loose more with subclassing then gain, its low key scam
Simple.
Subclassing should never have been added to the game, at least not in its current form.- No one asked for it.
- No one expected it.
- And frankly, it doesn’t make any sense.
Ideally, it should be removed entirely. But since that’s unlikely, I just hope ZOS reworks it to the point where it’s no longer worth using, similar to what happened with Oakensoul. It used to be great; now it’s just.... useless.
Please dont make definitive blanket statements that are inherently false. There are players that requested the ability to take skill lines from other classes. There are even valid arguments that explain why it makes more sense than a class based system.
As for expecting it? Thats up for debate too. Plenty of people were expecting it. For me it wasn't that it was coming that was a surprise, it was the lack of effort to balance the class lines before it went live.
So your three major points are refutes with simple responses.
Also, Oakensoul isnt useless. It still has a use case. Just because its not as OP as before doesn't mean it doesn't have power.
And if thats your definition of useless, well have fun chasing the meta every update.
Ok… 40 players ask for subclassing, while 4,000 don’t. Was this really something the majority of players wanted? Do you know the exact numbers?
Does subclassing make sense? For you, yes, that’s fine. For me, it doesn’t, and I’m entitled to my opinion.
Subclassing doesn’t make any sense in ESO. Is your opinion more valid than mine?Classes should be different from each other — with unique skills, different types of damage, and everything that defines a class as its own identity. Adding subclassing just makes everyone feel the same… how does that make sense?!
If anyone asks for my opinion, here it is: for every skill you use outside your class, you lose 10% damage. Simple as that.
Players expect subclassing? Which players? Who even knows about it? Players expect a lot of things… but this mess they added to the game? No. No one expected it... unless someone had inside knowledge of what was coming.
Is Oakensoul a good item? Don’t forget to use it in the new Vestige difficulty. Have fun!
neither classes nor subclasses make sense in a ESO, cause in other ES games classes were illusion, way to give u few starting spells/skills and proof is the ability to make custom class and name it in this games (more freedom, u picked and chose what u wanted, not punch of skills as package with ur "class"), i usually made my own class, so Strick class is not lore friendly, if u have role sys u get specific skills for ur role, example if u chose tank, u get defense passives and 1 attack skill and taunt, equal to one skill tree (skills good enough to fulfill ur role), classes have 3 skill trees
with role sys u have handful of staring spells/skills for ur role, so u can fulfill ur role, instead of class u chose role DPS healer or tank, its set so that it wont make u OP but certain skills/spell give advantage cause unique build, but some1 else may have advantage over ur build, thats for PVP and solo PVE, but on dungeons and trials u half to do ur role so there it doesn't matter, like it has always been, u have freedom to chose whatever skill/spell u want like in other ES games, make a unique build, almost awry1 different
Edited by Sugram22 on April 23, 2026 3:09PM2 -
Silaf✭✭✭✭✭To sell the dlc. Subclassing is incompatible with eso because it lead to dps build uniformity wich is boring.
It's born from Skyrim idea of being able to become everything but wile it works in a single player in an MMO it led to boring uniformity.
Now that the dlc is sold ZOS is pulling away from it. Luckly i may add.1 -
xylena✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Wild guess: their data showed Subclassing having a negative effect on player engagement.PC/NA || Cyro/BGs || solo/smallscale || retired until Dagon brings a new dawn of PvP2 -
Sugram22✭✭✭It's born from Skyrim idea of being able to become everything but wile it works in a single player in an MMO it led to boring uniformity.
no, it was just poorly implanted, if they did role sys what i talked about in last post it would have worked, u could just make a unique build, either for DPS tank or heal
for it to work (the skyrim style) they would half to drop class sys and replace it with role sys, making rest of the skills/spells player choice
Edited by Sugram22 on April 23, 2026 4:31PM1