U50 Feedback Thread for Combat Refresh: Werewolf

RGvolterra · April 14

After trying the new werewolf , I really enjoyed it and felt really immersed which I’ve always dreamed of … I’d like to be able to pick one of those 4 WW colours as my ultimate one since I love all of them and have currently 10 WW characters. I don’t mind the yellow glow on the white one but would be very happy if I could somehow toggle it on and off whenever I needed it for the sake of role playing. I’ve been playing ESO since day one and I only did it because I’ve always been a fan of WEREWOLVES AND VAMPIRES so ESO has only been the game which could bring such a grand dream to play as such creatures to come true.
I cannot stress enough how grateful and happy I am to have the WW finally improved , developed and efficient not only for PVP content but overall for PVE end game content. I wondered if we could have the WW side a bit taller as it would depict a more intimidating and in depth version of it would really be to be a BEAST.
I also wonder if we could have a more immersive animation when biting other players like those ones used by vampires when in stealth mode we kill the NPCS….
I think that’s it for now .
Thanks for this amazing WW changes and improvements.
Cannot wait to start a huge WW pack after all those changes can be finalised.

RGvolterra · April 14

PLEASE DO NOT TOUCH THE WHITE WEREWOLF COLOUR … if it looks like Albino , that’s it .. it’s a white werewolf … I loved it and will play it with one of my 10 WW characters. Instead give us the chance to choose amongst those 4 colour variations but PLEASE AND PLEASE DO NOT CHANGE IT .

luckiestlycan · April 14

Catariah wrote: »

1. Broken feet: I’ve noticed a bug where the feet bend in a very unnatural way on uneven terrain when Foot Inverse Kinematics is enabled (see pictures below).

!

This would be better suited in the Werewolf Refresh Bugreports I think, but good catch!

Catariah wrote: »

3. Female model: Some players have trouble telling the male and female apart, even when looking at comparison pictures. The female's thick fur actually makes her look larger, which can be a bit confusing. Since female wolves are naturally smaller than males, I’d suggest making the female model a bit smaller to make the distinction clearer.
!

Personally, I like the subtley, and I would like to counter point your suggest with; I don't want to be shorter again thank you. We only just got our height buffed, I will not stand for shrinking again by any margin! Let me enjoy my tall power fantasy and my long fur!

coop500 wrote: »

Something I dislike that I discovered: Dynamic Encounters and the new werewolf update not coming out at the same time, and thus locking those skill styles behind an even longer wait time than we're already waiting for the werewolf update to go live.

Are you sure the Dynamic Encounters aren't Update 50? I could swear I seen one in game earlier when I was testing the Werewolf quest, but it is true that I can't see anything in the patch notes about them.

But if they aren't in update 50, that sucks so much T-T Originally I thought the Werewolf Skill Styles were gonna be tied to the Werewolf Achievements, or maybe even the March of Sacrifices & Moon Hunter Keep Solo Dungeons (which I thought were Update 50 also, but I didn't see it in the patch notes so I guess not?), so I was suprised to see them tied to the Dynamic Encounters. Honestly, I would much rather them tied to the Werewolf Achievments thna have to wait another update T-T

Brickbeard2009 · April 14

Do the refreshed abilities correctly portray the mechanics of the ability?:
I think the abilities do a good job portraying the mechanics. The switch up in the pounce is a very good feature and it definitely shows that werewolf has a lot more ways to go now in content of all kinds.

Are there any key Werewolf changes that you enjoyed?:
The main things that Ive been enjoying are both the new forms look and feel and also the ability to stay as a werewolf out of combat. Ill let people that are more experienced when it comes to running WW in content talk over the finer points of the potential of the refresh, but I can say the larger size of the werewolf and the ability to just stay as a werewolf already do a lot to increase the enjoyment of being a werewolf.

Are there any key Werewolf changes that did not feel great?:
The only things that I can thus far call out are a bit of jankiness in the animations for the slaughter and pounce. The pounce also doesnt handle verticality very well Ive found. With old werewolf I used to jump from rocks onto enemies below me, these new pounce changes dont work so well with this from what ive experienced so far

Is there anything else you would like to share about the Werewolf changes?:
I think the main points I have are ones that others have also mentioned. First, im not a fan of the body markings being on the werewolf depending on the morph. The eyes are fine on the berserker, but honestly I dont think theres much cause to have them so people can differentiate morphs. If you come across a werewolf and they have direwolf companions then you know without the green marks, and I think having the glowing eyes alone for a berserker would be acceptable if you need to have something, but I think ultimately the markings take away more than they add.

Secondly, I think the berserker morph needs to have fur closer to its pre update colour. In most lights to me, it looks a very dark shade of brown instead of the rather nice black that the old one was. Im fine for a more purposeful shade of brown to be added later (id love to see other natural fur colours added as time goes on) but for now I think the berserker fur needs darkening more to that same kind of shimmery ash black that it was before the model change.

Overall though, brilliant start and I look forward to seeing it hit live!

ZhuJiuyin · April 14

Do the updated skills accurately reflect the skill mechanics?

Yes

What changes to the Werewolf mode are you satisfied with?

Lowering the early-game cost of becoming a werewolf, optimizing the werewolf skill rotation.

What changes to the Werewolf mode are you dissatisfied with?

1.Maintaining the werewolf transformation is difficult in a solo situation. Currently, the only feasible solution I can think of is wearing Eye of the Grasp to maintain sufficient ultimate points.

2.The skill timer is faulty, making it difficult to monitor the duration of the ability.

Is there anything else you'd like to share regarding the changes to the Werewolf mode?

1. The Werewolf skill descriptions are too complex, and many skill texts are translated incorrectly.

2. The interaction between skills is still poor. For example, you need to deliberately use Roar/Ferocious Roar to obtain Blood Hunger, but Roar is still cumbersome to use and doesn't deal damage itself. This means the best way to use Claw Fury is to either forgo using Roar/Ferocious Roar altogether, or only use Roar/Ferocious Roar before the start of combat to obtain Blood Hunger.

3. In group PvE, if you choose to use Claw Fury, you will almost never use Gnash's two morphs in the rotation, which is equivalent to wasting a skill. As mentioned above, although the Werewolf skills have been optimized, the interaction between skills still feels poor.

DC137 · April 14

Are there any key Werewolf changes that you enjoyed?

The new model looks great!

Are there any key Werewolf changes that did not feel great?

Please don't move forward with those glowing arm tattoos things! Even the eyes are a bit much and I will never chose the green morph on 90% of my characters solely because I wouldn't like to be locked into glowing green eyes.

Is there anything else you would like to share about the Werewolf changes?

You are well aware of how players feel about "fashion being the endgame" and even included the line in your news updates so why lock appearance altering visuals like these to the highest tier of the whole skill lines ultimate?

Erickson9610 · April 14

We can see the Ultimate drain rate in the tooltip of Werewolf Transformation when we're not transformed, but there's no way to check it while we are transformed. Would it be possible to display this information somewhere, if not on the Ultimate, then maybe on Call of the Hunt?

CrimsonXReaper · April 14

Not sure if this was mentioned somewhere but Passive Feral Cruelty doesn't seem to be working, I am even losing wd/sd after transformation.

SundarahFr3akinrican · April 14

When you attack while running, the animation looks so bad. I hope this is just temporary and they fix it before live. When you attack while running your upper body moves completely independently from your bottom half and it looks very bad.

Also lotta complaints about the glowing colors from the morphs. Would be better if the differentiation between morphs was something more organic, like same design but instead of glow, it's just the fur that is changed in color and a natural color

SundarahFr3akinrican · April 14

Callosum wrote: »

After trying the werewolf on the PTS, I’m actually very positively surprised. It looks much better than what we had previously seen before the PTS. This is, of course, a pleasant surprise.

That said, in the future it would really help if we could get proper previews of visuals and animations before the PTS, ideally in video form. Seeing the werewolf in motion makes a huge difference. Static images, especially awkward frozen poses, can make things look strange when they actually look fine in-game. This can easily lead to misleading feedback.

I was initially very opposed to the markings and glowing eyes based on the forum screenshots. However, after playing on the PTS, they look much better than I expected. Still, I don’t think glowing eyes and those types of markings should be permanent.

Suggestion: The glowing eyes and markings could instead appear when you reach 1000 Fury and Rampage is ready to be activated. Then, when you actually enter Rampage, the visuals could be extended or intensified further.

I think that would look really cool!

I like that idea with the glowing and rampage

Meredy · April 14

Do the updated skills accurately reflect the skill mechanics?

Yes

What changes to the Werewolf mode are you satisfied with?

I like how satisfying it looks and plays.

What changes to the Werewolf mode are you dissatisfied with?

It is too difficult to maintain WW form. Please give us the old passive back.

Sordidfairytale · April 14

I like that things like Bonebroth, Potentates, Templar, and Sorc passives also contribute to reducing the cost to remain in WW form.

Also Balorghs appears to be providing a boost to penetration, but not weapon and spell damage when using Rampage.

Rampage is not triggering War Machine.

Wuuffyy · April 14

RGvolterra wrote: »

After trying the new werewolf , I really enjoyed it and felt really immersed which I’ve always dreamed of … I’d like to be able to pick one of those 4 WW colours as my ultimate one since I love all of them and have currently 10 WW characters. I don’t mind the yellow glow on the white one but would be very happy if I could somehow toggle it on and off whenever I needed it for the sake of role playing. I’ve been playing ESO since day one and I only did it because I’ve always been a fan of WEREWOLVES AND VAMPIRES so ESO has only been the game which could bring such a grand dream to play as such creatures to come true.
I cannot stress enough how grateful and happy I am to have the WW finally improved , developed and efficient not only for PVP content but overall for PVE end game content. I wondered if we could have the WW side a bit taller as it would depict a more intimidating and in depth version of it would really be to be a BEAST.
I also wonder if we could have a more immersive animation when biting other players like those ones used by vampires when in stealth mode we kill the NPCS….
I think that’s it for now .
Thanks for this amazing WW changes and improvements.
Cannot wait to start a huge WW pack after all those changes can be finalised.

Simply going off your first statement regarding glowing effects (red eyes with red markings on berserker + yellow eyes with green markings for pack leader)-

Is there anything else you would like to share about the Werewolf changes? (suggestion)

I think a great compromise would be a client-side (i.e. only I, the user, sees the change) to toggle off markings/glows would do wonders to appease both parties.

It's there for 'balance reasons, I imagine, (i.e. identification without fail) but I also see how it can hurt/hinder immersion.

Darkness734 · April 14

Honestly everything looks awesome. HOWEVER they have seemingly AGAIN forget about weapon skill line passives.

It absolutely makes no sense that every class in the game including vampires get weapon skill line passives and traits and werewolves do not. It doesn't make sense for them to get armor passives and traits but THEY STILL GET THEM. why the double standard logic?

GIVE WEREWOLVES WEAPON skill line PASSIVES AND TRAITS. Without it they are hard locked to prioritizing penetration.

Edited - for clarity

Sordidfairytale · April 14

Darkness734 wrote: »

Honestly everything looks awesome. HOWEVER they have seemingly AGAIN forget about weapon traits.

It absolutely makes no sense that every class in the game including vampires get weapon traits and werewolves do not. It doesnt make sense for them to get armor traits but THEY STILL GET THEM.

GIVE WEREWOLVES WEAPON TRAITS. Without it they are hard locked to prioritizing penetration.

You mean the passives and skills from the weapon lines, Infused and Nirnhoned and enchants are working for me.

Darkness734 · April 14

Erickson9610 wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

This is the official feedback thread for Combat Refresh changes for the Werewolf coming in Update 50. After you have a chance to try out different combat scenarios, let us know what you think of the current balance and changes.

Specific feedback that the team is looking for includes the following:
Do the refreshed abilities correctly portray the mechanics of the ability?

Are there any key Werewolf changes that you enjoyed?

Are there any key Werewolf changes that did not feel great?

Is there anything else you would like to share about the Werewolf changes?

I have a lot that I want to talk about regarding this refresh, so bearwolf with me here:

My first impression is that the mechanics are not plainly explained. While I do see some mechanics repeated in several places (Werewolf Transformation and Blood Rage both explain how Rampage works) I had to look between several abilities to figure out what Blood Hunger does and where it's sourced from. It also took me some time to discover that the old Werewolf Transformation timer bar is a meter to show you how much Fury you have accumulated.

My current understanding is that, at least for a PvE damage dealer build using Werewolf Berserker, we want to use Carnage (Feral for single target, Brutal for AoE) and Bloodclaws as DoTs, use Hircine's Rage and Ferocious Roar as buffs, and Bloody Gnash as our spammable... or we can use Claw Fury as a channeled spammable and use Bloody Gnash as an execute spammable at 25%. For tanking, we want to use Pack Leader, Feral Pounce/Carnage, Hircine's Fortitude, Deafening Roar, Rip And Tear (casting this while Bracing to taunt enemies), and Bloodclaws.

To me, that divides PvE Werewolf into three playstyles:
Single Target DD (Bloody Gnash)

Channeled AoE DD (Claw Fury)

Tank (Deafening Roar + Rip And Tear)

There are plenty of key Werewolf changes that I enjoy. I love the Slaughter mechanic, especially that I can Slaughter enemies back-to-back. This really reminds me of the rampages I would go on in TES V: Skyrim, and I love all of the animations I've seen from this mechanic so far.

The model and animations look great! I also like the ability to change our fur color via Skill Styles, although I wish the Black fur color was a bit darker, to differentiate itself from the Ashen fur color. I was looking for both grey and brown fur color styles, assuming grey was Ashen and brown was the color when you didn't use a Skill Style, but I was surprised to find that there are only three colors, and our default color continues to change with the morph we pick, and we can equip a style that makes us look exactly as the morph we pick would've made us look anyway. I don't like how these styles are tied to a Dynamic Encounter which presumably won't be available until Season One — this will be a long wait. I hope we get the "Hircine's Hunter" style in the meantime.

I appreciate the Stealth Detection and the "PvE sneak" that we have now, as they're both thematic to werewolves being hunters. I like that Spaulder of Ruin was updated to proc off of Prowl as well. I haven't tested it yet, but I'm hoping Rampage lets us get away without a bounty if there are no witnesses, because I think Sacraments and Heists would be fun to do as a Werewolf. I still found that several monsters spotted me from a long distance away, though. I know it's not within the vision to give us proper sneak, but other PvE content like March of Sacrifices still won't let us complete it as a Werewolf, and there are still the old sneaking animations in the game (even an actual "prowling" animation when you toggle walk with weapons sheathed while invisible):

I would be happy to have PvE content like March of Sacrifices modified to let Werewolves complete it, even if we won't get to use sneaking in PvP. It would be nice to have the actual prowling animation be active while we're Prowling.

Other things I like include Pounce/Carnage being separated by distance, Hircine's Rage finally scaling off of offensive stats, and, of course, no time limit to the transformation out of combat. I spent several hours socializing with some friends in Werewolf form the entire time on the PTS, and this is the sort of experience I'm excited to have more of on the Live server. The in-form Ultimate is pretty cool, too — although when you use it while wearing Balorgh, it instead credits you for the rate of which Werewolf Transformation drains, rather than 1000 (the cost in Fury, or even whatever your current Ultimate value is). It's nice that bonuses which were specifically made to reduce the cost of Werewolf Transformation (Salvation, Shapeshifter's Chain, and Pack Leader's Bone Broth) affect the Ultimate drain rate. It's also nice to see the "supernatural regeneration" werewolf trope being represented by Pack Leader's "Enduring Rampage" Ultimate granting them a huge amount of extra Health Recovery.

Also, thank you for giving Werewolves a unique +6% damage done for allies via their Feeding Frenzy synergy. I hope this is enough to make them desirable in competitive groups, in both PvE and PvP.
Specifically for pain points, I think the biggest offense is how the change to Blood Rage makes it impossible to sustain Werewolf when you have no other Werewolves or dire wolves in your group. On Live, you can sustain Werewolf as a Werewolf Berserker so long as you continually hit the enemy and proc Blood Rage while you have Call of the Pack learned. On the PTS, you will eventually lose form if you don't have additional external sources of Ultimate Cost Reduction (i.e., Imperial's "Red Diamond", Templar's "Restoring Spirit", Sorcerer's "Power Stone") or Ultimate Generation (i.e., Nightblade's "Catalyst", Nord's "Stalwart", Emperor's "Authority"). This is a glaring issue for solo players who are stuck in combat who have no corpses to feed on nearby and are not equipped with Pack Leader, Werewolf friends, or an Ultimate-generating build.

While I was initially put off by the red/green markings depending on your morph, I recognize why they're there. I like that the Werewolf Berserker has glowing eyes just like in the ability icon. And I love that, with the existing Verdant Green Skill Styles for Rending Claws and Roar, you can make a green-themed Werewolf (Pack Leader, Hircine's Fortitude, Roar w/ Verdant Green, Rending Claws w/ Verdant Green) or a red-themed Werewolf (Werewolf Berserker, Hircine's Rage, no Verdant Green Skill Styles).

Another pain point I have is that Werewolf still has no crosshealing ability. Werewolves are supposed to be group-oriented, yet they lack the most important part of a group composition in their build. I'm also a little disappointed that we still have lifesteal in our toolkit, rather than a proper heal over time. Also, the loss of Disease Damage and Major/Minor Defile is felt, since that was part of our burst in PvP. Heavy Attack spam builds are also gone.
Overall, thank you for making this refresh a reality. This feels like a completely new game, in a very positive way. I've been telling a whole lot of people about this rework because it's genuinely the most exciting thing coming to this game in my eyes. It is giving a positive first impression for people who haven't played the game yet, so I hope issues like the unclear mechanics are sorted out so they'll want to stick with it.

As always, I have to ask, since these are on my wishlist and all:
Can we get a Scribing Grimoire for the Werewolf skill line? Something that interacts with the other abilities that opens up new gameplay possibilities. I would really love to have the option of replacing one of my Werewolf skills for a Werewolf Scribing skill that expands my build options, such as an ability that could crossheal, grant buffs which I otherwise lack (like Minor Resolve), or utilize Scripts like Class Flourish or Wayfarer's Mastery to create unique effects. For instance, a Scribing ability which placed an effect on the Hunting ground would even allow us to use certain sets we couldn't before, like Dark Convergence.

Can we get a Werewolf Companion? I think having a Companion who can transform into a Werewolf would be really cool. Not only should they count towards Call of the Hunt (helping address the pain point about it now being harder to maintain form as a solo player) but they could have all of the updated visuals for the model and abilities.

Can we get Werewolf added to Vengeance soon? I'm not sure how the new Werewolf would be optimized for this campaign, but a lot of us Werewolf players want to be able to play as a Werewolf in any experience, and Vengeance currently lacks it.

We already have Werewolf Transformation Skill Styles, and we have as close to sneaking as we're (likely) going to get. We got so many other cool things like cinematic kills and an infinite timer out of combat. I hope you'll continue to consider Werewolf in the future as more balance updates happen! I'm running out of things to ask for!

Erickson yet again with the nail on the head. Perfect synopsis, I would only add the bit about the weapon passives from the skill lines. Werewolves need to be able to hit penetration cap without being armor/jewelry locked. it makes absolutely no sense that they dont get the benefits from the weapon skill lines

Darkness734 · April 14

Sordidfairytale wrote: »

Darkness734 wrote: »

Honestly everything looks awesome. HOWEVER they have seemingly AGAIN forget about weapon traits.

It absolutely makes no sense that every class in the game including vampires get weapon traits and werewolves do not. It doesnt make sense for them to get armor traits but THEY STILL GET THEM.

GIVE WEREWOLVES WEAPON TRAITS. Without it they are hard locked to prioritizing penetration.

You mean the passives and skills from the weapon lines, Infused and Nirnhoned and enchants are working for me.

yeah youre right! ill edit it

Sordidfairytale · April 14

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Specific feedback that the team is looking for includes the following:
Are there any key Werewolf changes that did not feel great?

Is there anything else you would like to share about the Werewolf changes?

Is there a reason that Empower and the quicker heavy attacks are gone?

Were heavy attacks made quicker in general?

Could Empower be returned to the synergy or added to the Savage Strength passive?

autocookies · April 14

Do the refreshed abilities correctly portray the mechanics of the ability?

Yes, these seem to be.

Are there any key Werewolf changes that you enjoyed?

Honestly, I think this was very nicely done. It may have a place in some groups thanks to the group buffs. Werewolf beam was a good touch in my opinion though distance and likely damage hold it back compared to other beams.

Are there any key Werewolf changes that did not feel great?

Yes, very much so.... Form drops way too quickly in combat. If you start a fight with 100 ult, you get a grand total of 9 to 12 seconds before form drops (30s with Pack Leader). We need to be able to hold werewolf form while not relying on Fury. Also the werewolf ult should proc ult sets like war machine for both tank and dps wolves in my opinion.

Is there anything else you would like to share about the Werewolf changes?

Feeding Frenzy appears to be coming across incorrectly in the tooltip. I wasn't able to stay in form long enough to test much else during combat.

Celas_Dranacea · April 14

Oops I hadn't noticed this thread was already posted and had posted it elsewhere:

Hey ZOS team I just want to provide my first look raw feedback on the revised werewolf after testing on PTS some yesterday and today.

First - the refresh feels like a labor of love. You guys put a lot of thought and care into this. THANK YOU. I believe in the team working on this.

The pictures you posted on Friday and previously did not do justice to the werewolf model. The model look so much better than I perceived it to be from the advance pictures.

The tattoos are growing on me after the initial shock. Unexpected really, but I can go with this - I see where you’re going and see the opportunity for even more customization options … nice! Naturally I’ve heard from folks that they would like the option to remove the tats or tone them down. Different skill styles look nice overall!

White werewolf - needs some small “highlights” or rather darkening of snout and some other edges IMO - idk it’s necessary for it to look like albino wolf, it’s absolutely snow white - should still look like normal wolf man guy with maybe darker hair around claws, feet, snout, maybe back

Female model looks good not overblown, tasteful!

THE WEREWOLF STEALTH DETECTION - I now believe in justice - we should have always detected people. Hircine is great! THANK YOU. I mean I still think we should be able to stealth - werewolves are apex predators and all, but I’m cool with this for now

Animations look good overall! Jump is good! It’s probably too much to ask but pie in the sky ask would be to alternate arms when blocking and bashing, but I understand if that’s not feasible. Do you guys have the option to add various animations for block and bash that we cycle through?

Combat:
- I like a lot of where you are going. Lots of good with all the morphs and passives. There seems to be a chunk of wonky stuff about how stats convert when going into ww form, couple times where abilities do not trigger properly etc. but we have some weeks to test and give specific
- The bite ability is cool
- New claws animation is cool
- feel wise, something feels less responsive. Maybe just years of hardwiring to the old animations - will give it a fair shot before passing judgement.
- explain why we need aoe cap on claws? >:( do not like!
- healing feels like a nerf so far
- Still feeling out ulti and fury gen - will see with some more testing
- Can you explain any changes to speed? Only speed increase is on rampage? Perhaps it feels that we are not moving as fast just on account of being slightly bigger.

I see you guys working on this - thanks for the great effort. There will be some areas for concern that are highlighted but first I want to appreciate you guys for the honest care and work!

Nirnvana · April 14

Do the refreshed abilities correctly portray the mechanics of the ability?
I would say so.
Are there any key Werewolf changes that you enjoyed?
I enjoyed the weight of the new animations, gnash, even heavy attacks feel impactful. I also enjoyed the new blade of woe-like interactions.

The new model itself pretty nice, I also like how the female model still feels like a beast, and is werewolf first rather than slippery sloping into female worgen/MMO sexualdimorphism territory.
Are there any key Werewolf changes that did not feel great?
I prefer the old transformation VFX/SFX with the bloody explosion, it felt a lot more feral and like an affliction.

Sustaining the form itself can be quite a challenge if you're not on pack leader, and this leads into the other issue I have with the rework, currently if I want to be a normal werewolf clear of any glowy bits I have to be unmorphed, to me it kind of the defeats the purpose of introducing skill styles for the other colors if we're just gonna plaster them in neon crayons, they could be a neat option for those that like them, but right now if I was someone who was a berserk player who really wanted to play a white wolf, then I'm out of luck since I'll still not get that, just a white wolf with some red glowy crayon on it, I also don't have the option of just playing pack leader since that's now some green druidic thing instead of a plain white wolf like I'm used to.

I'm not sure if this is a difference for some PVP thing as other have brought up, and I may be uneducated on the subject but in which case I must ask where's the identification for the rest of classes, you don't see a different glow for grim focus morphs to tell you what they are using either. Moreover I feel the direwolves themselves a pretty obvious sign which morph is being used in case it somehow only matters for werewolf players.

If the reason these morphs have visual distinction is simply for the sake of having a difference I'd reconsider, or at least have a way to turn it off, morph are supposed to be a "reward" for leveling up the skill line, they should never feel like a punishment or make the player want to use the weaker version, which right now is the only way to be able to play the look/skins of the pre U50 WW.
Is there anything else you would like to share about the Werewolf changes?
The coloration of the werewolves could be more consistent with their previous iteration.

Waillyam23 · April 15

Is there anything else you would like to share about the Werewolf changes?
Jumping in werewolf form has no inertia, and the animation of the legs ('on all fours") is not compatible with the attack animation of the upper body (I never thought I'd see a werewolf twerk xD).

Erickson9610 · April 15

Could you consider changing the name of "Werewolf Transformation" to just "Werewolf Form"? We see that it is still called Werewolf Transformation in the Skills menu:

However, Skill Styles refer to this as "Werewolf Form":

Item sets refer to being in Werewolf as being "in Werewolf Transformation", and I think it would flow better if it was described as being "in Werewolf Form":

Shortening the name of Werewolf Transformation to Werewolf Form like you've done for the Skill Styles would help with the consistency, reduce the number of characters used in descriptions, and it would read more clearly in natural language.

Blood_again · April 15

I like the new WW models. The Berserk form looks gorgeous!

Turning the WW crouch into a stealth detection ability is a nice move. I like it.
However, I don't feel it helps me to avoid aggro. I mean, I read it in the patch notes, but nothing in-game helps me to realize it intuitively: no animations or hints.
Maybe the animation change is not necessary. At least it could probably be added to those hints on the loading screens.

React · April 15

Is it intended that class mastery passives work while transformed?

There are currently werewolves on the PTS who are doing upwards of 10k PVP DPS by taking advantage of certain class mastery passives while in werewolf form. To be clear - they're currently pushing almost double the highest PVP DPS that the top PVP builds were capable of pushing before, while using only one bar worth of abilities. That is a number nothing has achieved in PVP before, not even the recently reworked DK.

Seems a little insane to me.

Wuuffyy · April 15

React wrote: »

Is it intended that class mastery passives work while transformed?

There are currently werewolves on the PTS who are doing upwards of 10k PVP DPS by taking advantage of certain class mastery passives while in werewolf form. To be clear - they're currently pushing almost double the highest PVP DPS that the top PVP builds were capable of pushing before, while using only one bar worth of abilities. That is a number nothing has achieved in PVP before, not even the recently reworked DK.

Seems a little insane to me.

I mean, someone linked their PvE dps parse with PvE gear and they were parsing 100k (or up to 120k which is good but not even Arc level). Why would werewolf not be able to use pure class passives if they devote 3 of their in-kit skill lines to 1 class? We've always benefitted from class passives after all and these are simply an extension of those to make running 3 of one class's skill lines more viable.

In addition, if it was the claw skill you can simply move out and away from this as reading tooltips via PTS myself I can only imagine that it had to be that skill (think Arc beam, but melee).

Erickson9610 · April 15

React wrote: »

Is it intended that class mastery passives work while transformed?

There are currently werewolves on the PTS who are doing upwards of 10k PVP DPS by taking advantage of certain class mastery passives while in werewolf form. To be clear - they're currently pushing almost double the highest PVP DPS that the top PVP builds were capable of pushing before, while using only one bar worth of abilities. That is a number nothing has achieved in PVP before, not even the recently reworked DK.

Seems a little insane to me.

Even if you don't slot Class abilities, you are still your Class. Every Class has some passives which don't require Class abilities to be slotted, and it is by design that some Class Mastery passives don't require Class abilities to be slotted, either.

Please don't nerf Pureclass Werewolf (or other builds which do not utilize Class abilities) by requiring Class abilities to be slotted to use any of the Class Mastery passives. We are Pureclassing, just the same as you, except without using our Class abilities — why should we be nerfed for this?

YandereGirlfriend · April 15

Erickson9610 wrote: »

React wrote: »

Is it intended that class mastery passives work while transformed?

There are currently werewolves on the PTS who are doing upwards of 10k PVP DPS by taking advantage of certain class mastery passives while in werewolf form. To be clear - they're currently pushing almost double the highest PVP DPS that the top PVP builds were capable of pushing before, while using only one bar worth of abilities. That is a number nothing has achieved in PVP before, not even the recently reworked DK.

Seems a little insane to me.

Even if you don't slot Class abilities, you are still your Class. Every Class has some passives which don't require Class abilities to be slotted, and it is by design that some Class Mastery passives don't require Class abilities to be slotted, either.

Please don't nerf Pureclass Werewolf (or other builds which do not utilize Class abilities) by requiring Class abilities to be slotted to use any of the Class Mastery passives. We are Pureclassing, just the same as you, except without using our Class abilities — why should we be nerfed for this?

The point remains though that whatever is going on with WW that is enabling it to pull 10k DPS in a duel needs to get the nerf sledgehammer like yesterday.

Something needs adjusting so that it doesn't work as well against players. Like he said, that is like double the output of a sweatlord metabuild.

Wuuffyy · April 15

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

React wrote: »

Is it intended that class mastery passives work while transformed?

There are currently werewolves on the PTS who are doing upwards of 10k PVP DPS by taking advantage of certain class mastery passives while in werewolf form. To be clear - they're currently pushing almost double the highest PVP DPS that the top PVP builds were capable of pushing before, while using only one bar worth of abilities. That is a number nothing has achieved in PVP before, not even the recently reworked DK.

Seems a little insane to me.

Even if you don't slot Class abilities, you are still your Class. Every Class has some passives which don't require Class abilities to be slotted, and it is by design that some Class Mastery passives don't require Class abilities to be slotted, either.

Please don't nerf Pureclass Werewolf (or other builds which do not utilize Class abilities) by requiring Class abilities to be slotted to use any of the Class Mastery passives. We are Pureclassing, just the same as you, except without using our Class abilities — why should we be nerfed for this?

The point remains though that whatever is going on with WW that is enabling it to pull 10k DPS in a duel needs to get the nerf sledgehammer like yesterday.

Something needs adjusting so that it doesn't work as well against players. Like he said, that is like double the output of a sweatlord metabuild.

Beam would do the same??? I don't really care about citing sources for a beam-equivalent but still, I mean no proof+beam. We can do a bit better than nerf-calling like this.

If you want to 1v1 on PTS I am absolutely happy to provide testimony should you shred me 2 out of 3 in a duel as I have quite a bit of experience with fighting cheese and handling it so I could definitely be a proper judge of how 'uncounterable' you're seeming to claim this beam-equivalent is.

coop500 · April 15

Annnnd here comes the nerf demands, i knew this would happen. Werewolf finally becomes fun, and we can't have that.