It's time to NERF new DK.

CalamityCat · April 12

Xarc wrote: »

you forgot to mention all players who just left the game because they know complaining is useless, because of people like you

eso pop is decreasing but well, all is fine for you

Previously, all three PvP campaigns were full at peak times.
Now, only GH struggles to reach full capacity; queues that used to be 150 players are now down to 10 at their peak.

While in-game performance is better, isn't that strange?

Perhaps there's an explanation in what some players are doing and then facing a wall of players in complete denial.

When there are only a thousand of you left in the game, will you still say "everything's fine"? Or will you say "well, maybe we should have listened to some people"?
It's not because some people don't say anything that they don't exist. Doesn’t the notion of a silent majority speak to you? At some point you have to look at the numbers and the graphs, not just your friends for whom everything is going well

Actually I took a long step back from ESO, and especially PvP because of subclassing and the whole direction the game was taking. But before that I gave my feedback like a grown up, without screaming for a nerf. I asked simply for pure classes to get some love so I could choose what build I played in ESO. Apparently that feedback was heard and acted upon, so it wasn't entirely useless and I returned. You don't have to communicate like a spoiled child to be listened to, or for it to "count". Had I cried out "nerf subclassing in PvP" I doubt any PvPer would have supported me.

There have been plenty of reasons to quit in the last year or so, several of which I believe I gave my feedback on like a rational adult. So don't come with the nonsense that I don't speak up, because I've raised concerns many times. Subclassing was the only thing I felt was a genuine mess that needed changed, but PvPers seemed more interested in complaining about Vengeance, wardens, ROA/RC etc and now DKs.

It's really no surprise Cyro is quiet. GH is a misery to play if you don't like being nuked by subclass mutants traveling in packs. It's also still laggy as heck for me, so I try it with my PvP guild sometimes, I remember why I hate GH and I go PvP in BGs/IC instead. I'll try again when my warden is updated, but I think it'll be after the sorc update before I'll be having much fun there again.

Malyore · April 12

Xarc wrote: »

Malyore wrote: »

WE'RE NOT ALL DKS!

Using a DK subclass on your character makes you a DK in this discussion.

Sure. That's valid stance.
So then:

FlameDark wrote: »

Xarc wrote: »

Vraedlich wrote: »

The other classes just need similar passes.

Until then there is zero reason to complain. You have access to both DKs and subclassing.

I play PvP.
I don't play DK, but I play against them, and there's clearly a difference compared to other classes.
I don't use subclassing for most of my PvP characters (only healers in battlegrounds, but not in Cyrodiil).

What you don't understand is that I'm not saying DKs aren't fun to play; they're probably very fun. But if your definition of fun is that you now easily crush other classes, then we have different definitions. We can easily make slight adjustments that allow for a slight rebalancing; we're not going to wait 150 years for all the classes to be rebalanced, that's ridiculous.

Note that I have two DK characters that I've tested, of course, and yes, I've noticed the change. It's completely different.
I maintain that this rework needs to be slightly modified.

Malyore wrote: »

WE'RE NOT ALL DKS!

Using a DK subclass on your character makes you a DK in this discussion.

You are having a very hard time with the idea that people who do not play DKs... at ALL, are supporting NOT nerfing the DK changes right now. You also assumed that I subclassed DK in a previous post when I pointed out that I did not play DK when I supported not nerfing the class. I do not have a DK character, and I do not subclass as a DK. I have not touched the DK skills or play in ANY regaurd as a DK. Yet am still on the side of "do not nerf, wait for all classes to get their turn before calling out for nerfs". So please stop assuming every person supporting the class is either DK or subclassing as one. Some of us want to see the changes roll out first before lighting each class that gets buffed on fire.

@Xarc can you at least admit the reality that this is something else you need to address in your argument, rather than just complaining about everyone you've died to in PvP

Decimus · April 12

A few easy solutions for those struggling with DKs:

https://youtu.be/bcLPHwVSbB8

The solution isn't to nerf, the solution is to adapt and overcome. Keep this in mind for the warden rework and other upcoming ones as well!

Faltasë · April 12

Xarc wrote: »

This graph is misleading and does not represent the number of players at all.

It is based on analytical data from Google and the number of people searching for "ESO" etc.

Even if Steam only represents players who pass through this platform, at least it is a reliable source that clearly shows the decline of our game.

The steam chart isn't really all that genuine either, considering how skewed your projected line is. That graph has no influence on the conversation, because all MMOs declined in numbers after COVID, WHICH by the way is the peak of your graph, lol.

Xarc · April 12

Faltasë wrote: »

Xarc wrote: »

This graph is misleading and does not represent the number of players at all.

It is based on analytical data from Google and the number of people searching for "ESO" etc.

Even if Steam only represents players who pass through this platform, at least it is a reliable source that clearly shows the decline of our game.

The steam chart isn't really all that genuine either, considering how skewed your projected line is. That graph has no influence on the conversation, because all MMOs declined in numbers after COVID, WHICH by the way is the peak of your graph, lol.

Telling me that it's because of covid that the game is losing its population, that's still daring lol
Don't exaggerate, it was 6 years ago now.

Decimus wrote: »

A few easy solutions for those struggling with DKs: https://youtu.be/bcLPHwVSbB8

The solution isn't to nerf, the solution is to adapt and overcome. Keep this in mind for the warden rework and other upcoming ones as well!

I never said that DKs were immortal and impossible to kill eh.
It's not just me who notices an imbalance.

MorninStar · April 12

They are making all the classes more powerful so pure class builds have a chance to actually play. If you want to play a hybrid build than it's gonna cost you some where, that's how they're thinking and they're not wrong. Pure class builds should be stronger and players shouldn't be forced to sub-class just to make their build powerful enough to survive simple world bosses. They need to get the new reworks done for the other classes before players start screaming about nerfs.

Faltasë · April 12

Xarc wrote: »

Telling me that it's because of covid that the game is losing its population, that's still daring lol
Don't exaggerate, it was 6 years ago now.

I'm saying that youre being disingenuous about the charts. Compare the charts of any MMO right now and all player counts are lowering. People are not "leaving because of these DK changes" people are leaving because as an MMO grows old, the player population decreases. We both know that it'll stabilize once the game stabilizes.

The only one that may fight that is WoW because they're literally the OGs. It's hard to fight the OGs of MMOs when they've been around for 20 years.

Anyways, here's charts of the most popular MMOs on steam to let ya know.

Here is esos as the baseline:

Here are the others:

Xarc · April 12

I'm not saying people are quitting because of the DK rework.
I originally posted this because some people said that the DK rework had increased the number of players. While not at all, generally speaking the stats are decreasing and the current population peak corresponds to what happens every year at the same period.

So the DK rework does not bring any additional players, except that everyone has taken out their DK and is happy with it.

Faltasë · April 12

Xarc wrote: »

I'm not saying people are quitting because of the DK rework.
I originally posted this because some people said that the DK rework had increased the number of players. While not at all, generally speaking the stats are decreasing and the current population peak corresponds to what happens every year at the same period.

So the DK rework does not bring any additional players, except that everyone has taken out their DK and is happy with it.

So now you're moving the goalpost of your argument now that you get called out on it?

The Uninvited · April 12

Xarc wrote: »

I'm not saying people are quitting because of the DK rework.
I originally posted this because some people said that the DK rework had increased the number of players. While not at all, generally speaking the stats are decreasing and the current population peak corresponds to what happens every year at the same period.

So the DK rework does not bring any additional players, except that everyone has taken out their DK and is happy with it.

It brought additional players to Gray Host, at least on PC/EU. Long time since I've seen queues like this.

Xarc · April 12

Faltasë wrote: »

Xarc wrote: »

I'm not saying people are quitting because of the DK rework.
I originally posted this because some people said that the DK rework had increased the number of players. While not at all, generally speaking the stats are decreasing and the current population peak corresponds to what happens every year at the same period.

So the DK rework does not bring any additional players, except that everyone has taken out their DK and is happy with it.

So now you're moving the goalpost of your argument now that you get called out on it?

I'm consistent in what I say.

If you can't read, there's nothing I can do about it.

Militan1404 · April 12

MorninStar wrote: »

They are making all the classes more powerful so pure class builds have a chance to actually play. If you want to play a hybrid build than it's gonna cost you some where, that's how they're thinking and they're not wrong. Pure class builds should be stronger and players shouldn't be forced to sub-class just to make their build powerful enough to survive simple world bosses. They need to get the new reworks done for the other classes before players start screaming about nerfs.

I have complained about subclasses even before it came out, and people on this forum was telling me exactly the same as they are doing now about DK. And i dont defend subclass, i hate it and think it should never been added to the game. Pure DK and pure Templar is my pvp main and been using both when everyone else was running around in their fancy subclass build, and for 10 years. But still DK is busted and should be balanced in my opinion, making everything busted should not be the solution.

Malyore · April 12

Xarc wrote: »

Faltasë wrote: »

Xarc wrote: »

I'm not saying people are quitting because of the DK rework.
I originally posted this because some people said that the DK rework had increased the number of players. While not at all, generally speaking the stats are decreasing and the current population peak corresponds to what happens every year at the same period.

So the DK rework does not bring any additional players, except that everyone has taken out their DK and is happy with it.

So now you're moving the goalpost of your argument now that you get called out on it?

I'm consistent in what I say.

If you can't read, there's nothing I can do about it.

Sometimes too consistent...

Zama666 · April 12

it would have been nice if they released the class master passives at the same time the DK refresh....a little sumptin' for all....

I can't wait for biting jabs to be CHOMPING JABS! 8000K for 8 times, stuns, knock backs and causes all your clothes to fall off!

Malyore · 12:05AM

Zama666 wrote: »

it would have been nice if they released the class master passives at the same time the DK refresh....a little sumptin' for all....

I can't wait for biting jabs to be CHOMPING JABS! 8000K for 8 times, stuns, knock backs and causes all your clothes to fall off!

That made me choke-laugh, thank you.

Faltasë · 12:48AM

Zama666 wrote: »

it would have been nice if they released the class master passives at the same time the DK refresh....a little sumptin' for all....

I can't wait for biting jabs to be CHOMPING JABS! 8000K for 8 times, stuns, knock backs and causes all your clothes to fall off!

They did say though that they were a work in progress, and some had already changed. So that skill might have gotten nerfed already.

Oblivion_Protocol · 4:57AM

Militan1404 wrote: »

It happens all the time, i do it my self all the time so i should now. Most fights ends in a big one hit desync and exploiting broken mechs.

That has nothing to do with the class itself. I could one-shot you on a Necromancer if I exploited desync and broken mechanics.