It's time to NERF new DK.

Nyseto · April 8

Xarc wrote: »

Faltasë wrote: »

It is perfectly fine where it is. Do not convince ZOS to go back to their reactionary *** they've done in the past that has exhausting negative effects on everyone's future in the game.

No it's not.

They decided to update the classes?
Great idea.

They decided to do it one by one, increasing the feeling of imbalance?
That's their choice, but now they have to live with it.

Your solution to nerf DK will take us back to square one where essentially none of the classes will have been brought up to par with subclassing and have only been visually reworked.

The point of the refresh is to bring power to pure classes relative to subclassing. Your solution defeats that purpose.

allochthons · April 8

SneaK wrote: »

No, just work overtime and crank out the rest of the refreshes ahead of schedule. Do something the gaming industry has never done, be early.

There are so many horror stories of Gaming Studios abusing their devs like this. Let's not encourage it.

CatalinaWineMixer2 · April 8

Remove Subclassing! This is another direct result of this disaster. It never should have been done in the first place. We lost hundreds of guild members and friends because of this broken system! Why do we have to wait years to get our characters back we have had for years so eliteists can cherry pick every skill line? Stop nerfing our characters! Stop ruining our gear sets! Stop the continuation of 11 years of catering to PvP. It needs to stop.

You want fair? Give everyone the same abilities, buffs and stats by class. If youre really that good, youre really that good. Or institute a dps cap. There is one for armor and every other thing, maybe we need to start looking into that. And heavily advocating for it.

Arunei · April 8

SneaK wrote: »

No, just work overtime and crank out the rest of the refreshes ahead of schedule. Do something the gaming industry has never done, be early.

I'd prefer the people working on our game have a good work/life balance and not be expected to work 80 hours a week for months, actually. The game industry is already known for overworking its teams like a flogged horse with three legs in the grave.

SneaK · April 8

allochthons wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

No, just work overtime and crank out the rest of the refreshes ahead of schedule. Do something the gaming industry has never done, be early.

There are so many horror stories of Gaming Studios abusing their devs like this. Let's not encourage it.

Lol okay, insinuating I’m a proponent of abuse is a bit, out there.. ZOS has historically been very lackadaisical, maybe more-so than the rest of the industry even. Class masteries coming in season zero is a sign that things are changing for the better. Perhaps some of the devs are enjoying the work they’re doing now compared to the yesteryears, OT isn’t the boogeyman especially when you like what you do.

El_Borracho · April 8

Xarc wrote: »

Faltasë wrote: »

Xarc wrote: »

Faltasë wrote: »

It is perfectly fine where it is. Do not convince ZOS to go back to their reactionary *** they've done in the past that has exhausting negative effects on everyone's future in the game.

No it's not.

They decided to update the classes?
Great idea.

They decided to do it one by one, increasing the feeling of imbalance?
That's their choice, but now they have to live with it.

Would you rather them wait 2 years to do it all at once and keep the previous meta broken for the next two years or would you rather have incremental class domination so that it's a little bit more fresh?

They could perfectly well have improved the class without creating such an imbalance.

Do tell. How does one add more power to an underpowered class by not adding more power when the devs told everyone the goal was to add more power? To all classes. One at a time. With DK being first. But somehow add the same power balance to all of the other classes. Without a flux capacitor and a Delorean

How about we nerf players calling for nerfs instead.

CameraBeardThePirate · April 8

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

Except for necro, please.nerf the new necro before it even comes out. Thank you

You wound me

CameraBeardThePirate · April 8

I mean jeez at least wait until next patch when every pure class will have fun new toys to play with. Every class will be brought up to par. How is this any worse than last patch where everyone in PvE was using Herald of the Tome and everyone in PvP was using Assassin/Storm/X skill line? If anything, the meta is going to be shifting more frequently than it has in years with each patch for the next couple years.

Aces-High-82 · April 8

Infinite sustain tight to a delayed burst AoE skill, sure thats a healthy design decision. 50% projectile damage reduction on a mobility skill is a clever addition too. Look its nice that DK Deals serious damage but there is a difference between a thought out rework and blatantly overperforming obvious skill functions. Whats next on eg Sorc? Cast a shield and be immune for its duration?

Thumbless_Bot · April 8

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

Except for necro, please.nerf the new necro before it even comes out. Thank you

You wound me

Hah. I just figured they would do this anyway.

DMuehlhausen · April 8

Nerfing is literally never really the correct answer. Specially when they are doing class refreshes. I'm not sure what the next class is but I can 100% guess which class you'll want Nerfed next.

It's just like Diablo 4 right now. The Paladin is laughably OP. Not because it's not balanced, but because the balance is in the new expansion for it. When that launches it won't be as OP most likely and if it still is then nerfs or buffs should happen. Right now DK has access to class mastery that no other class has so of course it feels to strong, cause well it is. Until all classes get their refresh the updates ones will just be better.

DMuehlhausen · April 8

Xarc wrote: »

Faltasë wrote: »

Xarc wrote: »

Faltasë wrote: »

It is perfectly fine where it is. Do not convince ZOS to go back to their reactionary *** they've done in the past that has exhausting negative effects on everyone's future in the game.

No it's not.

They decided to update the classes?
Great idea.

They decided to do it one by one, increasing the feeling of imbalance?
That's their choice, but now they have to live with it.

Would you rather them wait 2 years to do it all at once and keep the previous meta broken for the next two years or would you rather have incremental class domination so that it's a little bit more fresh?

They could perfectly well have improved the class without creating such an imbalance.

No they couldn't. The only way to do that would be to have all class refreshes in the same update which would just be way to much to push out at one time and would be constantly delayed. Doing it class by class, and system by system is the best way to do it and make sure everything is "ready" when it releases.

Xarc · April 8

Incredible.

Everyone is aware of the imbalance but thinks it's normal and asks other players to be patient for two years.

I can't believe it.

CameraBeardThePirate · April 8

Xarc wrote: »

Incredible.

Everyone is aware of the imbalance but thinks it's normal and asks other players to be patient for two years.

I can't believe it.

They're not even saying be patient for 2 years. Class mastery passives are literally next patch. Give it time to see how those shake up the meta.

Not to mention, the entire point of the Class Reworks is to make pure classes more powerful than subclassing. They cannot do that without increasing the power of each class by a lot, and they do not have the resources to do multiple classes at once.

Would you rather we sit in the Assassin/Storm meta? At least with these Class updates the meta will shift regularly, which is a lot more than what we've gotten the past 3+ years.

Oblivion_Protocol · April 8

Xarc wrote: »

Incredible.

Everyone is aware of the imbalance but thinks it's normal and asks other players to be patient for two years.

I can't believe it.

The imbalance exists BECAUSE the devs are working on fixing it the right way by introducing these class refreshes one at a time. Calling for DK nerfs is like suffering with a broken leg for two years, then complaining that the cast is itchy and you want it removed and your leg re-broken when you finally get medical attention for it.

Is DK slightly overperforming? Yes. But that’s because subclassing is overperforming and the class refreshes need to bring everything to that level.

I like DK right where it is because the majority of people I see crying hardest about it are subclass mains on their overpowered Warden builds. I love fighting them now because I can re-enact The Passion of the Christ and Whip them half to death with ease.

You need to be patient and wait for the class refresh to be finished before the game is remotely closer to being balanced. If you can’t do that, maybe you need to play something else for the next two years and come back when everything is done. Because when 99% of this thread is people telling you you’re wrong, it might be time to believe it.

Vulkunne · April 8

Xarc wrote: »

Hello ZOS Combat Team, @ZOS_BrianWheeler

Given the increasing number of complaints regarding the new version of the DragonKnight, I think it's time for a nerf.

Why can't we wait until you update our other classes?
Well, because it would take too long.
We want to play, right?

You can keep the beautiful animations, but reduce its power, however you can, find a way.

Thank you.

Actually, some of the animations are a touch too much and should be dialed back. With that said, this could also apply to other effects, like I wish they'd remove the banner animation because it makes me nauseous.

But anyways, the DK has already been heavily nerfed over time. There are other things in this game that could use more attention. The DK has been due for a rebate check from Karma for some time now.

Sorc was and still is a weapon of mass destruction in the hands of a few. I don't see Sorc getting cut up. No, no you don't either. So let DK alone for right now until the refresh moves further along at least. Then they'll have to look at the bigger picture and ensure balance.

Blackrim · April 8

Faltasë wrote: »

Can you not relay this to them? The reason people have left the game in the past was because the previous combat team philosophy was being reactionary garbage.

All the complaints you're seeing are a product of an unfinished system, not because the DK is overpowered. It is perfectly fine where it is. Do not convince ZOS to go back to their reactionary *** they've done in the past that has exhausting negative effects on everyone's future in the game.

Annd here we are with rationality thank you.

DO NOT nerf the Dragonknight. There is literally a poll establishing it is just fine as is.

spartaxoxo · April 8

Xarc wrote: »

Incredible.

Everyone is aware of the imbalance but thinks it's normal and asks other players to be patient for two years.

I can't believe it.

No. We are getting class mastery passives as potentially temporary measure to bring pure classes in line with subclassing while we wait for their refreshes. Because of that, it seems much more sensible to deal with the current imbalance through those than to kill the refresh initiative before it even begins.

ADarklore · April 8

Xarc wrote: »

Incredible.

Everyone is aware of the imbalance but thinks it's normal and asks other players to be patient for two years.

I can't believe it.

Have you played ESO long? Because many classes have suffered YEARS of underperforming due to nerfs because they were supposedly "too strong". Then when they finally get a buff, those class players who used to dominate them, come to the forums screaming for them to be nerfed again. So yes, those of us who have played for years are fine with waiting two years, because it means perhaps finally all classes will be more equal in the end.

El_Borracho · April 8

Xarc wrote: »

Incredible.

Everyone is aware of the imbalance but thinks it's normal and asks other players to be patient for two years.

I can't believe it.

All I keep reading is "Don't do anything while we ignore the gross imbalance that subclassing created before this."

Wild guess, warden charm meta running ROA? Thought so

Palumtra · April 8

I'm pretty much talking against myself (I dont play PvP in ESO tho) as a Tank player, but Heart of Flame is insane in its current state. It grants infinite resources and heals.
It's a no brainer pick for sustain that also does AoE damage.
If it gets nerfed PvE will be hit too cuz they can't or don't want tot differntiate between the 2.

CalamityCat · April 8

Xarc wrote: »

Incredible.

Everyone is aware of the imbalance but thinks it's normal and asks other players to be patient for two years.

I can't believe it.

So I guess you haven't noticed all the subclass builds that have been hitting like a truck for the past year? Because they're still around and still trashing the balance in PvP. Your focus on the DK seems to have conveniently missed that.

The changes are already in game and more are coming, so nobody is having to wait for two years! Though on the subject of patience, as a pure class PvP player I've been killed by the most stupidly OP subclass builds for about a year now. I'm still not screaming that subclassing should be nerfed or deleted. Nor am I complaining about DKs. I'm fighting DKs daily with the same pure builds and going by my logs, subclassers are still hitting insane numbers. From my perspective, the complaints about DKs are hilarious. I find them tough but they're absolutely killable. There is a degree of exaggeration in these PvP nerf threads that I can't always take seriously...

I am genuinely going to enjoy the upcoming "nerf wardens" chorus when my main gets updated though.

DMuehlhausen · April 8

Xarc wrote: »

Incredible.

Everyone is aware of the imbalance but thinks it's normal and asks other players to be patient for two years.

I can't believe it.

yes, cause the imbalance is because things are being changed. Like this isn't hard to understand. DK has updates no other class has. When other classes get those same updates DK will probably be terrible again. Honestly it's probably why they did DK first.

Militan1404 · April 8

CalamityCat wrote: »

Xarc wrote: »

Incredible.

Everyone is aware of the imbalance but thinks it's normal and asks other players to be patient for two years.

I can't believe it.

So I guess you haven't noticed all the subclass builds that have been hitting like a truck for the past year? Because they're still around and still trashing the balance in PvP. Your focus on the DK seems to have conveniently missed that.

The changes are already in game and more are coming, so nobody is having to wait for two years! Though on the subject of patience, as a pure class PvP player I've been killed by the most stupidly OP subclass builds for about a year now. I'm still not screaming that subclassing should be nerfed or deleted. Nor am I complaining about DKs. I'm fighting DKs daily with the same pure builds and going by my logs, subclassers are still hitting insane numbers. From my perspective, the complaints about DKs are hilarious. I find them tough but they're absolutely killable. There is a degree of exaggeration in these PvP nerf threads that I can't always take seriously...

I am genuinely going to enjoy the upcoming "nerf wardens" chorus when my main gets updated though.

Theres a big diffence between sub classes and DKs, sub classes has the assasin/animal/storm that is overperforming(that we been screaming to be balanced for months allready) in pvp and thats really it, but is no where near what DK is doing at the moment so stop spreading misinformation. No subclass build could one shot you, and the skills are way to stacked and do to much, dosent matter if they give pure class skills becouse the DK could still one shot players. And whats the plan? Put every class in line with the dk so everyone can run around one shoting players like its an shoot’em up. It also putting players of the game, lots of guildes have left becouse of it, and cyro is only complains about it, and the game is emtyer than ever so it certenly didnt bring inn anymore players.

Brakkish · April 8

This is why if you don't already; you should have every class already in your roster.
There's nothing more here today that wasn't already part of rollouts in the past. (new classes etc)

Throughout the years each class has had it's 'overtuned' - 'nerf it' moments.

It's fine to complain about it, that's your right. For those who want more control; simply play the class, and enjoy the power during it's time, until the next meta-class hits.

ruskiii · April 8

Xarc wrote: »

Hello ZOS Combat Team, @ZOS_BrianWheeler

Given the increasing number of complaints regarding the new version of the DragonKnight, I think it's time for a nerf.

Why can't we wait until you update our other classes?
Well, because it would take too long.
We want to play, right?

You can keep the beautiful animations, but reduce its power, however you can, find a way.

Thank you.

I have seen far more people wanting to see other classes brought up to the level of the DK rework than I have seen people crying for nerfs, its genuinely refreshing.

I hope ZOS take note of the 10x ratio on the first comment disagreeing with you.

Xarc · April 8

You all blame subclassing when you all admit there's an imbalance in PvP with the DK.

But I wasn't in favor of subclassing either, and what happened just proved me right, as well as everyone else who was against it.

I don't care that my opinion is in the minority; that doesn't mean I'm wrong. Here's the proof.

Horace-Wimp · April 8

Xarc wrote: »

Hello ZOS Combat Team, @ZOS_BrianWheeler

Given the increasing number of complaints regarding the new version of the DragonKnight, I think it's time for a nerf.

Why can't we wait until you update our other classes?
Well, because it would take too long.
We want to play, right?

You can keep the beautiful animations, but reduce its power, however you can, find a way.

Thank you.

Absolutely NOT!

My DK is finally what it should have been for the more than two years that I HATED playing DK. Before U49 DK's were only good for tanking and healing, two roles I don't enjoy. Now, after U49, my DK is a DPS powerhouse like it should have been all along. I no longer have to rely on other generic Skill Lines to do even the slightest damage. I can now fully utilize ALL of the DK Skill Lines to mow down trash AND bosses in group content.

If ZOS nerfs DK then I'll have no choice but to delete mine (unless ZOS let's me convert it to a Sorcerer.)

And the ONLY complaints that I've been seeing over and over and over and over since U49 has to do EXCLUSIVELY with PvP. NOBODY cares about PvP. I know I don't. I avoid it religiously. I shouldn't have to suffer the loss of a toon that is FIANLLY working as it should have all along just because a minority of complainers don't like the way it works in PvP.

See how many players quit ESO then.

Nerfing DK now or in future is a TERRIBLE idea.

IV_Deity · April 8

Xarc wrote: »

Hello ZOS Combat Team, @ZOS_BrianWheeler

Given the increasing number of complaints regarding the new version of the DragonKnight, I think it's time for a nerf.

Why can't we wait until you update our other classes?
Well, because it would take too long.
We want to play, right?

You can keep the beautiful animations, but reduce its power, however you can, find a way.

Thank you.

OH BROTHER. Here we go with this. The game is being balanced, one class at a time. Classes without the rework will seem underpowered in some aspects. Get over it. This is for the longevity of the game.

If it seems overpowered after ALL class reworks are done, then come back here and post again.

Militan1404 · April 8

ruskiii wrote: »

Xarc wrote: »

Hello ZOS Combat Team, @ZOS_BrianWheeler

Given the increasing number of complaints regarding the new version of the DragonKnight, I think it's time for a nerf.

Why can't we wait until you update our other classes?
Well, because it would take too long.
We want to play, right?

You can keep the beautiful animations, but reduce its power, however you can, find a way.

Thank you.

I have seen far more people wanting to see other classes brought up to the level of the DK rework than I have seen people crying for nerfs, its genuinely refreshing.

I hope ZOS take note of the 10x ratio on the first comment disagreeing with you.

Well i seen far more that dislike it and chats are full of complains about it, and how the game is shrinking even more after the rework tells what players wants.