FlameDark wrote: »

I am firmly on the side of, wait until the refreshes roll out before calling to nerf anything.

If Sorc was the first one rolled out for its refresh, everyone would be calling for that class to be nerfed too. Because that's the whole point of the refresh... To raise each of the classes up. Clearly it worked very well so far. Be patient, learn to enjoy being whipped and wait for your class to get its turn bring upgraded.

Thats the problem aint it? no class should be that powerful better adjust down the dk before they goes on with the rest of the classes, beeing to powerful in a game is never a good thing. What worked well so far? They made a busted class with stacked skills, they just doing the same mistakes again as they did with sub-classing. What they gonna do next? Give streak major evasion and major protection,dosent that sound cool? And they could give jabs major force and courage, awesome right? Just let the class play the game for us, so we wont need thumbs anymore.

The funny thing is that for all of DK’s power, it’s not that hard to kill them if you know what you’re doing. Flame resist glyphs and not being a vamp both go a long way. Whip can be dodge-rolled easily if you’ve got good timing and aren’t stunned. And you can see Corrosive coming from a mile away. Just stay away from the DK, keep your heals up, and dodge the Whips that you know are going to get spammed.

Really, the biggest problem I have with DK is the absolutely gargantuan amount of sustain they have with Heart/Soul of Flame, considering that it gives back more Magicka than it costs. Turn that down a bit and the class becomes a lot less brain-dead in terms of raw power.

Militan1404 wrote: »

Estin wrote: »

There isn't actually a lot of complaints. If you look, it's just the same 5 or so people spamming threads saying to nerf DK. I don't know what their goal is. Do they want pure classes to remain barely usable? Do they really want Animal Companions + Assassination + Storm Calling/Restoring Light to remain the top PvP build? It's really hard to understand the thought process behind people who are still running stage 3 vampire in a patch where everyone is using temporarily imbalanced flame damage. The U50 class passives will solve 90% of these people's complaints about class imbalance until everything is refreshed. Why is it so hard to wait? The worst thing ZOS can do is revert back to the heavy handed spreadsheet nerfing of the previous dev team that caused us to be put in this situation. Do you really want more of that just because you lost a hand full of times to DKs?

Have you been to cyro by any means, its full of players complaining about DK and want it adjusted, so its not just 5 randoms guys in this forum. And yes they should nerf it before the rest of the classes are done, not just for balance between classes but also to balance the power creep dk brings right now. The game just becomes more and more empty, so the rework seemed to continued to drive players away just like subclassing did. Of zos dont get things on track fast and balance them, i be amazed if they even get done with the rework before the game goes to maintenance mode.

The DK class refresh has brought back more players to the game compared to subclassing which immediately saw a reduction in player population. U50 is going to bring back more players as well since their pure classes are going to be on par with subclass builds and even the refreshed DK. Each season is also going to include a new refresh which will bring back even more people. Thanks to the new ESO dev team's communication, we know what we're going to get and when. When subclassing dropped, there was silence for the entirety of U46, and then U47 dropped with such paltry nerfs that did nothing to affect the meta and only harmed pure classes. There wasn't any word regarding pure class buffs or proper subclassing balance when U48 dropped either. ESO is in a much better spot than it was last year, and it's going to continue to get better with each patch.

Xarc wrote: »

all the DKs on this thread : "nooo it's fine like it is!!!"

Sure, for you.

Lol no, i dont "main" anything. I have more playtime on my sorc and templar than my DK, and I still havnt forgiven them for ruining my favorite poison dk build.

Even so, I still argue that we need to wait for the initiative to finish before we start nerfing. For one, subclassing still exists and is still powerful. Secondly, the last thing we want is for ZOS to get distracted by reactionary changes that they fail to complete the initiative (aka hybridization among others).

Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »

The funny thing is that for all of DK’s power, it’s not that hard to kill them if you know what you’re doing. Flame resist glyphs and not being a vamp both go a long way. Whip can be dodge-rolled easily if you’ve got good timing and aren’t stunned. And you can see Corrosive coming from a mile away. Just stay away from the DK, keep your heals up, and dodge the Whips that you know are going to get spammed.

Really, the biggest problem I have with DK is the absolutely gargantuan amount of sustain they have with Heart/Soul of Flame, considering that it gives back more Magicka than it costs. Turn that down a bit and the class becomes a lot less brain-dead in terms of raw power.

It's a bit tricky, but you can also affect the sustain they get from Heart of Flame. Without Heart of Flame, DKs have no sustain. Everyone goes into max stat and damage mundus leaving them at around 600 recoveries. The sustain from Heart of Flame only works when the skill is used on cooldown every time. The solution? Get them to stop casting Heart of Flame on cool down through stuns and pressure as soon as it ends. DK skills cost a lot of mag, and they're going to have to spend time recovering. In a sustained fight, they're usually sitting around with a 40-60% mag pool, so the more time they have to cast skills without heart of flame up, the easier it will be to kill them. Negates might actually be the best thing to use against a DK if you can keep them in there for long enough.

At the very least wait until all the class refreshes are done first. If it gets nerfed now, that means every other refresh is going to be nerfed before it even gets launched.

As others have said, seeing the dragonknights power just means all of the rest of us are waiting our turn for our refresh. I find it exciting to see how well DK has turned out. It means there is hope for my class as well.

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Even when they refresh the other classes it will not change the fact that DK's can still do enough damage to one shot you, the skills you possess will mean nothing if they can kill you before your able to use any skills because the damage on skills is way to high compared to the average health pool.

The thing is from my own experience and from watching other players, a DK vs a DK results in a pretty even match where neither party is dying from a 1 shot, nor does the fight end in a stalemate. It should be expected that once the other classes are refreshed, the issue of DK's burst combo will not be a thing as much. Refreshed classes will have enough power to put DK on the back foot to prevent them from lining up their burst, as well as having the survivability needed to prevent/recover when it does land.

DoofusMax wrote: »

Xarc wrote: »

all the DKs on this thread : "nooo it's fine like it is!!!"

Sure, for you.

Note that I do not main a DK and still think it's fine where it is. Even my one-and-only DK gets shredded and I'm willing to live with that rather than nerf it until the other classes catch up.

FlameDark wrote: »

Xarc wrote: »

all the DKs on this thread : "nooo it's fine like it is!!!"

Sure, for you.

lolz I dont even have a DK toon

Playing with a DK subclass makes you a DK in this discussion

Malyore wrote: »

At the very least wait until all the class refreshes are done first. If it gets nerfed now, that means every other refresh is going to be nerfed before it even gets launched.

So you want to wait 2 years and play full imbalanced games ? it's the way you want the game to be fun ?


What I think is that before the game spirals out of control, they could easily make a few minor adjustments to avoid disrupting the entire game. Currently, we're seeing a DK invasion everywhere in Cyrodiil and Battlegrounds; it's hellish. And since the imbalance is significant and acknowledged by everyone, I think something needs to be done.

I'm not saying we should go back to how the DK used to be, quite the opposite, but perhaps regulating certain percentages might be necessary before going any further.

When it comes time for the Sorcerer and Nightblade, I can already see you all whining if they continue down this path. On the contrary, I think it's better to balance the reworked classes FROM THE START.

PurpleScroll wrote: »

Good grief, please stop with the "NERF IT!" witch hunt. It is so tiring.

Then they should start make things balanced and not massively busted.

Xarc wrote: »

Why can't we wait until you update our other classes?

OP really misses the animal assassin meta, huh.

As a dk only player, I agree. We need to be nerfed back to having helping hands.

We have to leave it be, other classes should be coming up to that level.

If you can't beat them, join them? Mmo pvp will never be balanced. Vengeance is going to be the closest. People will always find a way to cheat or cheese in "competitive" modes.

I do wish the classes were all reworked at the same time, but I guess that wasn't possible.

Xarc wrote: »

And since the imbalance is significant and acknowledged by everyone, I think something needs to be done.

Something is being already done, namely, the class refresh.
Would that be better if all classes were done at once? Sure, but it isn’t the case and it won’t be, it’s just healthier to accept it and move on.

I strongly agree with everyone who says “hold nerfs till all classes are refreshed”. Only then it will be clear what needs to be adjusted. Asking ZOS to tweak it now, perhaps just to ask them again later to tweak it further, is a massive waste of work hours and we want this refresh to stick to the schedule.

Estin wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Estin wrote: »

Do you really want more of that just because you lost a hand full of times to DKs?

By handful do you mean every single time for the next year or whatever?😂

I predict in U50 the most common thing you'll see on your death recap is going to be Biting Jabs. Biting Jabs is going to receive 2000 damage done per tick of damage because of one of the templar class passives. Jabs has already been updated to be an area attack rather than a cone which has made it a lot better to use. Now it's going to have insanely high damage to go along with that QOL change. Not to mention NBs can do an extra 35% crit damage while getting 4 free bloodthirsty traits.

You should really read up on the class passives just to see how on par they're going to put them compared to current DK. They will be enough to hold everyone over until september when you will be dying to nothing but shalks and probably a better bird spammable, and then december when you will be dying to nothing but frags and overload.

Just a note, they'd said in the livestream those numbers were already outdated, so they won't be what winds up on the PTS. Everything about them is a WIP so we might not even get the same names, flavor text, or effects when they come to the PTS.

That said, no matter how little they'd buffed DK people would still be complaining that it's too much compared to the other Classes. They don't realize (or don't care) that it completely defeats the purpose of the refresh if the reworked Classes are only a tiny bit stronger than unworked ones. Like come on, think about it. How can something be overhauled to be considerably better while also staying weak enough to not hardly be better than the stuff that hasn't been?

Could they have waited 3 or 6 months and released a few reworked Classes at once? Yeah, but we'd have the same complaints from people who's main Class wasn't included, so what's the point? Why wait when people will complain regardless?