Radiate77 wrote: »

Bit of feedback regarding the Vigor Skill Styles, I really like the ground projections, but am finding the sun & moon that float above your head to be too much.

It’s reminding me of the Heart we just fought to have removed over Dragonknight’s head when using Dragon Blood and likewise I would appreciate if those two symbols would be looked at…

oh i really like the floaty moon guess each to their own.

Mik195 wrote: »

I don't even understand this whole thing. My EU PC character had open treasure chests and pick clothing resources and whenever I did one of them I got points. Ny PC NA had pick up blacksmithing nodes and when I picked one up, I get nothing. I would have expected that all the crafting resources would behave similarly.

The task description states the number of times you need to collect a node or defeat an enemy type to be able to claim the reward once. It's "Collect 15 wood/ore/cloth" but "Loot 1 treasure chest". It's also "kill 20 daedra", but "kill 25 atronachs".

My reroll failed. I had a challenge for a world boss but the character I am playing is only level 12 so I rerolled to get something they can do. It game up with a TRIAL. Level 12 cannot do a trial so I tried to reroll again and it went back to the exact same world boss that was there before. This was not the way it worked on PTS; why is it so broken now?

Is there a specific reason why challenges are 6 steps of collect 60 points, instead of 1 step collect 360? This seems like it's built just to annoy people. Between accidentally opening all my caches, which we don't know what's going to happen to those points, and having to open the UI every time I get through each of the 6 steps to collect points, I don't even think I'll bother doing them.

alternatelder wrote: »

Is there a specific reason why challenges are 6 steps of collect 60 points, instead of 1 step collect 360? This seems like it's built just to annoy people. Between accidentally opening all my caches, which we don't know what's going to happen to those points, and having to open the UI every time I get through each of the 6 steps to collect points, I don't even think I'll bother doing them.

Likely so you don't have to do something a million and a half times before you get a reward for it. See the "log in daily" seasonal challenge that allows 99 retries... when the season only had 97 days. Being able to collect as it goes sllows it to be rewarding even if you don't completely finish.

So yes, it's actually player friendlier the way they did it.

Now if the constant collection annoys you, I'm sure someone will come up with an addon real quick to auto collect them so it works just like Endeavors instead of making you stop your gameplay to pick it up.
Oh wait, that already exists: https://www.esoui.com/downloads/info4484-Auto-ClaimTomePoints.html

tomofhyrule wrote: »

alternatelder wrote: »

Is there a specific reason why challenges are 6 steps of collect 60 points, instead of 1 step collect 360? This seems like it's built just to annoy people. Between accidentally opening all my caches, which we don't know what's going to happen to those points, and having to open the UI every time I get through each of the 6 steps to collect points, I don't even think I'll bother doing them.

Likely so you don't have to do something a million and a half times before you get a reward for it. See the "log in daily" seasonal challenge that allows 99 retries... when the season only had 97 days. Being able to collect as it goes sllows it to be rewarding even if you don't completely finish.

So yes, it's actually player friendlier the way they did it.

Now if the constant collection annoys you, I'm sure someone will come up with an addon real quick to auto collect them so it works just like Endeavors instead of making you stop your gameplay to pick it up.
Oh wait, that already exists: https://www.esoui.com/downloads/info4484-Auto-ClaimTomePoints.html

I was just about to say that hopefully someone will come up with an add-on to remove the prompt to claim the Tome points because last night I discovered that if you can ignore that prompt, and you, for example, wanted to wait until 5/5 on a challenge to collect everything at the end you can do it that way, but that annoying prompt gets in the way. Having them automatically claimed is much better for me so I can’t wait to try out that add-on when I get next week‘s challenges. Does it work on that crazy daily login challenge as well? In my opinion, that’s just awful, it should’ve been log in once a week.

Well, with the rollout of Tamriel Tomes, I'm suddenly, strongly nostalgic for what was before. It was so much... simpler.

• Each month, I could see at a glance, in one interface, ALL the available free login rewards for the month.
• All I had to do to claim the rewards was log in the number of days necessary for the rewards I wanted. And click on them.
• My friends and I shared all the same endeavors, so you could easily make pursuing them a team effort if you enjoy group play (although it was not required except for difficult endeavors like "complete a trial.")
• Seals were auto-collected.
• Even though there is a lottery component to crowns, between seals, crowns, and gems, once I had a few gems under my belt I could pretty much always obtain exactly the cosmetics I wanted, and there was a single interface to shop through which cosmetics were available for money (with the exception of the furniture store which is only accessible within houses for some reason).
• If I couldn't afford something I really liked when it dropped, I could rest assured it would always come around again. Crown crates return on a cycle, and special limited items almost always reappear in the Crown Store, often at a discount
• Because I am an ESO subscriber, and I enjoyed pursing the endeavors with my friends, technically I could almost always obtain a desired paid cosmetic without spending any additional money with either crowns or seals, if I saved them.

It may be that we ultimately are getting more free cosmetics and a higher volume of cosmetics-per-dollar paid with this new system. but the value of cosmetics is if you like them! Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and all that. It's why the community is often so torn about cosmetics attached to difficulty achievements. Players who like difficult achievements enjoy having something to show after having done the achievement. Players who don't like difficult achievement become frustrated if a cosmetic attached to a certain achievement is highly desired - if it goes well with a character theme, is their favorite animal or color... whatever, but that cosmetic is attached to achievement they wouldn't enjoy pursuing.

Therefore, from my perspective, things are so much worse now, because it's so complicated to determine which cosmetics are available, and for how long, and to compare and contrast which ones you might like better, and to target which things you like best. Let's divide "free" rewards and "paid" rewards into two different categories. Now:

Free Rewards

• I now have to track another currency, Tome Points.
• I have no idea how much of this currency I'll earn, because it depends on how much time I'll have in game and how many tomes points are attached to the challenges I'm able to complete. As a result, I'm kind of afraid to claim any of the free rewards, because I don't know if at the end of the three months if I'll have enough Tome Points to claim the free rewards I most want. (At this point in the discussion, boy am I missing the days where I could claim my actual free daily login reward with no hesitancy. The worst it could do was temporarily take up an inventory slot if it was unwanted, which destroy could easily remedy.)
• Can I, at least, focus on earning enough points to get the free things I want most first? Nope, most likely, I cannot, because I have to unlock EACH PAGE through earning Tome Points to even get to them. This season, if what I want most is Kireth's Kit Jerkin, and what I want second-most is Vigor, Dusk Blue, I have to earn enough Tome Points to unlock all ten pages of the Tome, and WAIT to redeem Vigor, Dusk Blue, even though I like it, until I've safely claimed Kireth's Kit Jerkin.
• Tome Points are only earned in-game from what I can tell. No money needed. Sounds great, right? Well, not really, because the cosmetics they unlock are available for a limited time, so if I get busy and don't have time to work through the challenges to earn them, I can't just spend a little bit to buy the amount of Tome Points I need to buy the one thing I want. I HAVE TO earn them in game, with a different currency than my main currency, gold, and I need to do it within 3 months to do it without spending additional money. Otherwise, the free rewards in the Tome all become... Paid Rewards!
• Technically, the only true free, zero effort rewards through this system, similar to what the daily login rewards were, are what you can buy with the Tome Points earned by logging in. This season, that calculates to 1,485 Tome Points (99 x 15). As you need 2,000 Tome Points to unlock page two, that means you're stuck on page 1. This season, the free rewards on the first page add up to 1,370 Tome Points. So for 90 days, to do nothing more than we logged in as before, we have the potential to earn a maximum of 5 rewards instead of ~90 (one for each day)! Now I understand the trade-off is that you can do other activities instead of logging in, and that the rewards/value ratio may be higher than what sometimes was provided for a daily login, but still. If I go through a busy stretch where I only have time to log in, do writs on one character, check my mail, and grab my hireling rewards... that's a HUGE downgrade in potential free, zero effort rewards.

Paid Rewards

• Paid cosmetics are now in two different interfaces, and availability is on two completely different schedules. If I want to see which hairstyles are available for purchase, before I had to check Crown Store / Style Parlor / Hair Styles and the Crown Store / Crown Crates. Now, I also need to go into the Tome section and look through every single page to see if there are any hair styles there. Repeat for each kind of thing that exists.
• I cannot obtain and target all the paid cosmetics I'd like with crowns, gems, and seals anymore. To be able to buy any of the paid cosmetics in a season, even if I only want a single one, I have to spend $14.99 or $29.99 every three months (depending on which item it is I'm really interested in) on top of my ESO subscription. I can't use Crowns I've already purchased with real money, I can't use the gold/Crown exchange, and it can't be gifted. I MUST spend this additional money. If Raynor's Traveling Robes is what floats my boat, I must spend $30.00 within three months, else I may never be able to obtain it ever again. Talk about FOMO!
  
  I'll give a real example from this season. I'd really like the Vanos Dungeon Delve Staff. I usually play a healer. I most often equip staves. I don't necessarily need or care about the Delve Maul, the Delve Bow... etc. If I don't pay $14.99, will I ever see it again? In a Crown Crate, in a weapon pack, in another season? Etc. It's so annoying that I just can't buy it with one the other currencies that I have typically used for paid cosmetics. And, can I pay a smaller amount just to unlock the paid cosmetics on the one page I'm interested in? Also, no.
  
  (Again, different cosmetics appeal to different people. I acknowledge that it's likely that the "value" of items available for $14.99 or $29.99 may be worth way more than that, but that's not helpful if there's only one or two things you want. The less items you want, the worse that price is.)
• If I purchase a paid Tier of the Tome, can I then unlock and use the paid items? Oh, no. I'm just buying access. It's the same as if ZOS started charging to be able to use the Crown Store! I still must unlock Tome Points (which I can't buy with any currency, even if I wanted to), so now I have to pay for my paid cosmetics with both real money and time! And Tome Points, which were a way to earn free, in-game items, now simultaneously also become a barrier to access something I paid for and I have to choose which to claim first.
• If I want to not worry about losing access to these paid cosmetics or the free-turned-to-paid-because-of-the-timer cosmetics, I have to pay the money within the 3 months of the season. I can't just wait for it to come around again, and pay then, when I can better afford it, or when I have more time to pursue Tome Points.

Yes, there are a few things you can earn via the ESO+ subscription to help with this, but to me it just adds another layer of confusion and pressure. When do I open my cache? Which season to I use them on? etc.

This seems to have added so much more FOMO to the game, not less, for me, and a lot less flexibility. Plus, it's added layers of complexity, multiple steps and time delays to have access to the cosmetics, and we've traded the hassle of missing a login day for currency management for the free rewards. I don't like this feeling of being "forced" to pay for something within a time period, and also having to buy "everything." Crowns generally cost between $0.007 and $0.01 USD each, depending on the pack size. Assuming the worst price... the most expensive pet in the Crown Store is $12.00 right now (the three inventory pets). And to obtain it, I can use Crowns that I have, it could be gifted, I could exchange gold for crowns, and there's no real urgency because even if it leaves the store it will probably come back, maybe even on sale. If I JUST want the Dungeon Delver Theodolite, it's going to be $14.99 plus 400 Tome Points, plus I need to earn my way through page 4 (although yes, if you buy the season eventually you will naturally since it will then be there forever), and I HAVE to decide to spend the $14.99 within three months. Something tells me I'm going to have to get used to "missing out" on getting the cosmetics I actually want to obtain way more often...

virtus753 wrote: »

I’ve seen 16k quoted here on the forums, but Alcast lists just 15.2k for the free track, close to 16k for Premium, and just over 31k for both. I need to count it myself.

Here's my math. I only counted for the Free Tier, for simplicity, because I didn't have time, and I don't intend to buy the Premium or Premium +.
Spoilered for space reasons:

virtus753 wrote: »

But where are you seeing that buying Premium gives you any extra points? I see only more opportunities to spend points.

Buying the “+ Bonus” tier gives you 2 caches of 2k TP each — which you can, but are not required, to spend on that Tome.

Neither tier forces extra points on you.

This is accurate, as far as I understand.

Spoilered for space reasons: (source: https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/guides/tamrieltomes)

My wording was a bit sloppy, and that caused some confusion. I'm sorry. The context here, though, is that people opened the caches without knowing they expired. So I was working under the assumption that the Premium + players would also open their caches, thus exacerbating the problem. However, since I didn't count up the Premium + tome point costs, I should not have mentioned the paid tiers.

I didn't follow your Premium and Premium + math, because I haven't looked into it, and my brain is a bit fuzzy today. (Too much Artemis 2!)

But on the Free Tier, every page costs 2K to unlock, correct? (I'm asking, since I have already earned some TP, my screen wasn't clear, so I did some quick math.)
11pages (including bonus pages), 1 is auto-unlocked = 10 x 2K = 20K tome points needed to gain access to all the rewards.
(edited the line just above this, because I thought both bonus pages had to be unlocked separately. They don't, they're together. Also edited before checked to see if there are more posts.)

Squintsalot wrote: »

Soooo... I just this morning watched a video on YouTube where I learned I was going to be capped at 2000 tome points that will carry over to the next season...

It's a currency. I expected it'd just sit with all my other currency until I spent it on something. As annual plus subscriber, I had ELEVEN tome caches on day one. I opened them all. Then I paid $30 for premium + tomes and got two more caches... which I opened. I bought everything I was interested in buying from the rewards this season and have more than 4000 tome points leftover. This doesn't even account for the tome points I'll earn playing the game over the next three months.

I thought "sweet! I'll have a head start next season!" This morning I found out you'd be taking them from me. Who thought it would be a good idea to TAKE CURRENCY AWAY FOR NOTHING? I spend a lot of real money on this game... This feels like theft.

Please remove the cap. All tome points should carry over. You don't take our gold, alliance points, telvar, writ vouchers, or crowns at the end of every quarter. Why the heck would you take away this new currency and give us nothing for it?

Yes, agreed. Currency should not expire. I've made long posts on this concept in the past, but basically, the game world needs to make sense and have some consistency. It makes zero sense to have currency that expires.

The reason for this is likely so people can't save up and unlock a season all in one go but... why? Who cares? Who is it hurting? They still get their money from anyone who wants to buy the cosmetic layers, and otherwise it's a "free" currency to unlock things being given to us at no cost. If some people wait four seasons before redeeming any of their points, how does that hurt anyone? There's no market! You can't trade the points. And how is it any different than holding onto the caches and not opening them? What is the point of the mechanic and how does it benefit anyone, players or ZOS? It doesn't make anything more fun or help encourage players spend more money. If anything, because it is frustrating, it would make me feel less inclined to invest in the Seasons.