Lycanthrope1997 wrote: »

Here's the model with a bit more fur and polished. Hopefully they do something like this or better.

Why are there weird bald spots? Also the bull *** machine isn't going to spit out anything that is as polished as what an actual 3D artist would make.

Honestly these feel like a step in the wrong direction and I like them less than Enemoriana and Mottlewing's versions. I don't want to derail with the ai elephant in the room but these are all hyper-rendered in a way that is losing eso's style. I do not like the sideburns (hated them on the werewolf lords which I always felt looked clowny and not very cool and don't like it here) and I also think the feet on your model look more avian for some reason?

This one of yours looks best to me but I still am wanting it to lose the silly sideburns.


It's giving me mid-1800's beard in a bad way

Lycanthrope1997 wrote: »

Yeah. I understand the natural look like regular wolves however werewolves aren't really natural. They're a combination of man and wolf. Unless we go back historically where they turn into regular wolves. I honestly don't care which route they take at this point. We needed a better model than what we have on the live servers. I was just experimenting with different styles and see what would look cool for everybody. I like many werewolf designs in general. I am a werewolf enthusiast obviously. I also been asking for werewolf changes for years on my YouTube Lycanthrope Gaming. I just want wolf to be good. Tired of it being downplayed and getting nerfed too often or left behind.

Werewolves aren't natural but Hircine's realm has a certain theme of being at least close to nature. You and I both want werewolf to be good even if we don't fully agree. My main thing is if werewolf is a predator made by Hircine, eyes permanently glowing means they cannot sneak around without being seen due to their eyes glowing like headlights (I swear this is not a joke about werewolves mechanically not being able to stealth right now). Most werewolves in game are pretty decently able to blend into their surroundings and only have their eyes glow during powerful attacks. I would prefer this to be consistent for player characters, especially since my werewolf is more of a martial brawler and in his nonwerewolf farm is a seasoned altmer soldier. I'm fine with skill styles being more creative and flashy but I would prefer the base models to keep the spirit of werewolves that fit with prior trends.

Sorry for the weird reply order but you posted while I was writing the other post also had to edit a few things I worded weird.

eashi wrote: »

Emeratis wrote: »

Honestly these feel like a step in the wrong direction and I like them less than Enemoriana and Mottlewing's versions. I don't want to derail with the ai elephant in the room but these are all hyper-rendered in a way that is losing eso's style. I do not like the sideburns (hated them on the werewolf lords which I always felt looked clowny and not very cool and don't like it here) and I also think the feet on your model look more avian for some reason?

This one of yours looks best to me but I still am wanting it to lose the silly sideburns.


It's giving me mid-1800's beard in a bad way

Ah, yes mutton chops. Perhaps the werewolf just wants some mutton.

The feet are the same as the model that the devs showed in their stream. Muttonchop werewolves unfortunately are a part of the werewolfism theme in general. I just don't want the werewolf to look like it crawled out of the ocean with slick hair like the old model or painted on etc. Muttonchop design isn't my choice that's up to the devs to change. But yes I understand your frustration too.

Lycanthrope1997 wrote: »

Emeratis wrote: »

Lycanthrope1997 wrote: »

Yeah. I understand the natural look like regular wolves however werewolves aren't really natural. They're a combination of man and wolf. Unless we go back historically where they turn into regular wolves. I honestly don't care which route they take at this point. We needed a better model than what we have on the live servers. I was just experimenting with different styles and see what would look cool for everybody. I like many werewolf designs in general. I am a werewolf enthusiast obviously. I also been asking for werewolf changes for years on my YouTube Lycanthrope Gaming. I just want wolf to be good. Tired of it being downplayed and getting nerfed too often or left behind.

Werewolves aren't natural but Hircine's realm has a certain theme of being at least close to nature. You and I both want werewolf to be good even if we don't fully agree. My main thing is if werewolf is a predator made by Hircine, eyes permanently glowing means they cannot sneak around without being seen due to their eyes glowing like headlights (I swear this is not a joke about werewolves mechanically not being able to stealth right now). Most werewolves in game are pretty decently able to blend into their surroundings and only have their eyes glow during powerful attacks. I would prefer this to be consistent for player characters, especially since my werewolf is more of a martial brawler and in his nonwerewolf farm is a seasoned altmer soldier. I'm fine with skill styles being more creative and flashy but I would prefer the base models to keep the spirit of werewolves that fit with prior trends.

Sorry for the weird reply order but you posted while I was writing the other post also had to edit a few things I worded weird.

I honestly don't mind which direction they choose for the werewolf design. I obviously don't want a cartoon werewolf atm. However the stealth thing I can understand but who needs stealth when you can literally close the gap in seconds and rip something apart? Lol But yes stealth is important I just don't know if they're gonna implement it. Yeah glowing eyes during attacks would be cool. That's the way I would do it too.

Yeah that's fair. I mentioned it briefly but mostly what I was trying to express is I would prefer they stick to lore. I'm ok with werewolf abilities activating an eye glow (in fact I would find this to be a really cool mechanic and nod to other things we see in game) but I do not want it to be on the model by default. My one werewolf character is a more traditional tes werewolf. If the werewolf rework is enjoyable as I've mentioned a few times I would also like reimagining skill styles like werebear, changeling, undead werewolf, daedric, etc since several of these exist in lore and also make sense for premium styles down the line (but also probably require more extensive model work and will be crown related content) so I could maybe use the skill line on other characters with story justifications and I have several friends who really want their werebears to be depicted properly in game. I mostly just want to see cool things because I do love shapeshifters more than werewolves in general but I also like TES's take on werewolves more than most and I don't want to see it turned into something it's not.I also really want to see both vampire and werewolf lines expanded further since there are more shapeshifters than just werewolves and vampires in TES have different bloodlines similar to VTM that have been criminally underutilized outside of lorebooks and a few quests so reworking both to be more free and fitting rp fantasy would be ideal.

Emeratis wrote: »

Lycanthrope1997 wrote: »

eashi wrote: »

Emeratis wrote: »

Honestly these feel like a step in the wrong direction and I like them less than Enemoriana and Mottlewing's versions. I don't want to derail with the ai elephant in the room but these are all hyper-rendered in a way that is losing eso's style. I do not like the sideburns (hated them on the werewolf lords which I always felt looked clowny and not very cool and don't like it here) and I also think the feet on your model look more avian for some reason?

This one of yours looks best to me but I still am wanting it to lose the silly sideburns.


It's giving me mid-1800's beard in a bad way

Ah, yes mutton chops. Perhaps the werewolf just wants some mutton.

The feet are the same as the model that the devs showed in their stream. Muttonchop werewolves unfortunately are a part of the werewolfism theme in general. I just don't want the werewolf to look like it crawled out of the ocean with slick hair like the old model or painted on etc. Muttonchop design isn't my choice that's up to the devs to change. But yes I understand your frustration too.

No, it isn't. Your ai is sliding in things.
ESO wip:


Earlier renders where feet are fine:


The one I'm accusing of avian/hagraven feet:


Hagraven feet:


This is one of the many reasons I have a strong distaste for ai.

Well. Ai isn't great. I guess we got a dino/bird/wolf now lol yeah the AI added fur to the legs unfortunately but it's whatever. Ai be weird like that

Emeratis wrote: »

Lycanthrope1997 wrote: »

Emeratis wrote: »

Lycanthrope1997 wrote: »

Yeah. I understand the natural look like regular wolves however werewolves aren't really natural. They're a combination of man and wolf. Unless we go back historically where they turn into regular wolves. I honestly don't care which route they take at this point. We needed a better model than what we have on the live servers. I was just experimenting with different styles and see what would look cool for everybody. I like many werewolf designs in general. I am a werewolf enthusiast obviously. I also been asking for werewolf changes for years on my YouTube Lycanthrope Gaming. I just want wolf to be good. Tired of it being downplayed and getting nerfed too often or left behind.

Werewolves aren't natural but Hircine's realm has a certain theme of being at least close to nature. You and I both want werewolf to be good even if we don't fully agree. My main thing is if werewolf is a predator made by Hircine, eyes permanently glowing means they cannot sneak around without being seen due to their eyes glowing like headlights (I swear this is not a joke about werewolves mechanically not being able to stealth right now). Most werewolves in game are pretty decently able to blend into their surroundings and only have their eyes glow during powerful attacks. I would prefer this to be consistent for player characters, especially since my werewolf is more of a martial brawler and in his nonwerewolf farm is a seasoned altmer soldier. I'm fine with skill styles being more creative and flashy but I would prefer the base models to keep the spirit of werewolves that fit with prior trends.

Sorry for the weird reply order but you posted while I was writing the other post also had to edit a few things I worded weird.

I honestly don't mind which direction they choose for the werewolf design. I obviously don't want a cartoon werewolf atm. However the stealth thing I can understand but who needs stealth when you can literally close the gap in seconds and rip something apart? Lol But yes stealth is important I just don't know if they're gonna implement it. Yeah glowing eyes during attacks would be cool. That's the way I would do it too.

Yeah that's fair. I mentioned it briefly but mostly what I was trying to express is I would prefer they stick to lore. I'm ok with werewolf abilities activating an eye glow (in fact I would find this to be a really cool mechanic and nod to other things we see in game) but I do not want it to be on the model by default. My one werewolf character is a more traditional tes werewolf. If the werewolf rework is enjoyable as I've mentioned a few times I would also like reimagining skill styles like werebear, changeling, undead werewolf, daedric, etc since several of these exist in lore and also make sense for premium styles down the line (but also probably require more extensive model work and will be crown related content) so I could maybe use the skill line on other characters with story justifications and I have several friends who really want their werebears to be depicted properly in game. I mostly just want to see cool things because I do love shapeshifters more than werewolves in general but I also like TES's take on werewolves more than most and I don't want to see it turned into something it's not.I also really want to see both vampire and werewolf lines expanded further since there are more shapeshifters than just werewolves and vampires in TES have different bloodlines similar to VTM that have been criminally underutilized outside of lorebooks and a few quests so reworking both to be more free and fitting rp fantasy would be ideal.

For example my werewolf character is a bit different than other werewolves in the lore because I like to see my werewolf take different forms like the wolfman form aka werewolf lord, or a regular wolf, or the common werewolf form in ESO. Kinda like a multiform werewolf or evolved lycanthrope. A werewolf that has full control and change forms at will depending on which situation I am in like am I hunting? In a town or around regular humans? Or in a full fledge fight with another werewolf or crazy creature. I like to see all types of werewolf forms. They obviously exist in the Elder Scrolls Universe. Man Beasts, Regular wolf like The Packmaster in the werewolf quest, behemoth, and werewolf lords. There's also the werewolf pack structures too but yeah.

Erickson9610 wrote: »

eashi wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

eashi wrote: »

Lycanthrope1997 wrote: »

I didn't want to use ai but I think the werewolves should look something like these here

So where in the lore do WW eyes glow?

The werewolf eyes glow in TES III: Morrowind as well as in TES V: Skyrim Special Edition.

I don't recall that at all. They had some variations in eye color but not glow. Could you be misremembering a mod?
The eye glow in those images looks really clowny. Eye color as a cosmetic is a good idea. It could be based on your character eye color or its own cosmetic (minor adornment).

I was misremembering the Skyrim werewolf (the eyes do not glow, but you do see a reflection of light in the eyes) but the Morrowind werewolf absolutely does have glowing eyes:



The eyes are way brighter than the surrounding fur in the darkness. The eyes are glowing in the dark.

For the record, the Skyrim werewolf's eyes do not glow:

It's hard to tell with Morrowind because the game simply isn't dark enough. You can say the textures are at least bright. Glowing eyes in Skyrim are also used by every undead from Dawnguards changes to Vampires to Skeletons.

Used Openmw (to separate any mods) and Hircine's Ring.

KingArthasMenethil wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

eashi wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

eashi wrote: »

Lycanthrope1997 wrote: »

I didn't want to use ai but I think the werewolves should look something like these here

So where in the lore do WW eyes glow?

The werewolf eyes glow in TES III: Morrowind as well as in TES V: Skyrim Special Edition.

I don't recall that at all. They had some variations in eye color but not glow. Could you be misremembering a mod?
The eye glow in those images looks really clowny. Eye color as a cosmetic is a good idea. It could be based on your character eye color or its own cosmetic (minor adornment).

I was misremembering the Skyrim werewolf (the eyes do not glow, but you do see a reflection of light in the eyes) but the Morrowind werewolf absolutely does have glowing eyes:



The eyes are way brighter than the surrounding fur in the darkness. The eyes are glowing in the dark.

For the record, the Skyrim werewolf's eyes do not glow:

It's hard to tell with Morrowind because the game simply isn't dark enough. You can say the textures are at least bright. Glowing eyes in Skyrim are also used by every undead from Dawnguards changes to Vampires to Skeletons.

Used Openmw (to separate any mods) and Hircine's Ring.

The eyes are very clearly glowing in the second image there. Because the eyes aren't affected by lighting the way the rest of the model is, it gives the impression that they are emitting their own light. If the eyes were affected by lighting like the rest of the model, they would be far darker and harder to see in the dark; but instead, they look the same brightness regardless of whether the model is in the light or in the dark.

Mottlewing wrote: »

So far I've been drawing everyone's suggestions and I realized I never really drew what I wanted in a werewolf so here it is. I couldn't decide between abs and fur so I met in the middle and put some light fur on the abs.

I'm sorry if I made anyone sad with what it can be. This means alot to me too and I really wanted to give the devs some insight as to what everyone wants to see on the off chance they get to see these.

Thank you Enemoriana for the assist those ears look amazing

I’d just like to reiterate that I think this design pretty much nails it for me. It seems to cover what most have been asking for regarding changes to the current model (:

Might be a good idea to keep things simple so the Devs don’t get too many looks being thrown at them. But I do appreciate the other hairy werewolves being posted (:

Erickson9610 wrote: »

KingArthasMenethil wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

eashi wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

eashi wrote: »

Lycanthrope1997 wrote: »

I didn't want to use ai but I think the werewolves should look something like these here

So where in the lore do WW eyes glow?

The werewolf eyes glow in TES III: Morrowind as well as in TES V: Skyrim Special Edition.

I don't recall that at all. They had some variations in eye color but not glow. Could you be misremembering a mod?
The eye glow in those images looks really clowny. Eye color as a cosmetic is a good idea. It could be based on your character eye color or its own cosmetic (minor adornment).

I was misremembering the Skyrim werewolf (the eyes do not glow, but you do see a reflection of light in the eyes) but the Morrowind werewolf absolutely does have glowing eyes:



The eyes are way brighter than the surrounding fur in the darkness. The eyes are glowing in the dark.

For the record, the Skyrim werewolf's eyes do not glow:

It's hard to tell with Morrowind because the game simply isn't dark enough. You can say the textures are at least bright. Glowing eyes in Skyrim are also used by every undead from Dawnguards changes to Vampires to Skeletons.

Used Openmw (to separate any mods) and Hircine's Ring.

The eyes are very clearly glowing in the second image there. Because the eyes aren't affected by lighting the way the rest of the model is, it gives the impression that they are emitting their own light. If the eyes were affected by lighting like the rest of the model, they would be far darker and harder to see in the dark; but instead, they look the same brightness regardless of whether the model is in the light or in the dark.

Also a side note. Balorgh's eyes glow during the hunt/shadow phase and the direwolf eyes glow too when they spawn.

Even the art has Glowing eyes from The Wolfhunter DLC

Emeratis wrote: »

Daggerfall was basically pixel art and before the soft reboot of the series/lore. For Morrowind last night I checked both screenshots and the eyes are the same color in both and I do wonder if @KingArthasMenethil could do me a favor and go into the texture files and tell me if I'm right on there is only one eye texture there. My other thought on morrowind is it could be an attempt at the natural version of "wolf eye glow" which is an irl phenomenon. The Skyrim screenshots in this thread at night snow a more refined version of trying to depict this where you see the tapetum lucidum.

For every eso example of the werewolf eye glow it is during some sort of mechanic/special move/spellcast. I am fine with that, I am not fine with making a dramatic permaglow for no reason when many of us do not want that and it doesn't fit with most other werewolf depictions in the series. If there is a glow during a cast of a werewolf ability I am fine with that, if they want to depict the tapetum lucidum for immersion at night I'm also fine with that (but given eso's known engine limitations they tend to avoid depicting reflective stuff except in very basic ways and I doubt they would go all out on werewolf eyes to that level of detail when we still have had wrong elf vampire eyes for over a decade with no fix/tweak). I'm not ok with a permanent dramatic glow for no reason.

If we look at Daggerfall it looks more like that the King of Worms has an intended Eye Glow.

Daggerfall Vampires




Daggerfall King of Worms (Mannimarco before his unholy union against shoes with Xal'atath)

Erickson9610 wrote: »

I don't get why people don't want to play Werewolf to play as a werewolf. People play Vampire to play as a vampire, and they don't ask for Vampire to get a style to look like something completely different. Werewolf should be about roleplaying as a werewolf, not these other, unrelated creatures.

I cannot speak for other people but for me I have very much advocated since skill styles for reimaginging of other skill lines including vampire. I have several vampires in game of different strains and I would love for a more mistweaver flavored vampire for my Keerilth vampires and other options for different strains or vampire reimaginings. My favorite skill styles in game are the ones that reflavor abilities and creative and intersting ways and in another thread I've been asking for more based on wishes and ideas I've come up with since skill styles released and chatted about with friends.

I have mentioned that I love all shapeshifters, not just werewolves and the shapeshifter fantasy is more desirable for me than the wolf part of the fantasy. I know many others who feel similarly. I know that expanding the fantasy past wolf would get more people to play and care about werewolf for balance and viability and immersion. Logistically while they don't exist in lore we probably won't get other lycanthrope or vampire skill lines but skill styles could give those of us who have characters who exist in lore but haven't been depicted in game a way to finally have that. I have a friend who has had a werebear character for at least five years and really wants a skill style for it. I fell in love with changeling lore/depictions in eso from Selene's two dungeons. One of the most exciting thing about the original eso cinematic trailers for me were the undead werewolves. I have one character that I view as a werewolf in character but I would love to maybe use the werewolf skill line more because I have several shapeshifting characters.

I think the main thing I am hoping you understand that while the wolf part of the fantasy may be big or important for you, for others of us it's a flavor of things that is nice but the ability to change and shapeshift is more important for the fantasy for us and I think both groups deserve a seat at the table in discussing werewolf and it's future/potential.

Erickson9610 wrote: »

And just because werewolves had glowing eyes before doesn't mean they need to always have them. It's not necessarily a lore thing as it is an art direction thing. However, making the eyes glow when activating an ability would be too cheesy in my opinion — it should be either always glowing (not dramatic, but rather like Morrowind's) or not glowing at all.

Like I said I'm referencing eso npcs mostly with the glow and a suggestion for a compromise but I've made it very clear I would prefer the eyes not to glow and stick with art/design/lore themes that are more currently. It also keeps eso's world relatively consistent.

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Emeratis wrote: »

Lycanthrope1997 wrote: »

Emeratis wrote: »

Lycanthrope1997 wrote: »

Emeratis wrote: »

Lycanthrope1997 wrote: »

Yeah. I understand the natural look like regular wolves however werewolves aren't really natural. They're a combination of man and wolf. Unless we go back historically where they turn into regular wolves. I honestly don't care which route they take at this point. We needed a better model than what we have on the live servers. I was just experimenting with different styles and see what would look cool for everybody. I like many werewolf designs in general. I am a werewolf enthusiast obviously. I also been asking for werewolf changes for years on my YouTube Lycanthrope Gaming. I just want wolf to be good. Tired of it being downplayed and getting nerfed too often or left behind.

Werewolves aren't natural but Hircine's realm has a certain theme of being at least close to nature. You and I both want werewolf to be good even if we don't fully agree. My main thing is if werewolf is a predator made by Hircine, eyes permanently glowing means they cannot sneak around without being seen due to their eyes glowing like headlights (I swear this is not a joke about werewolves mechanically not being able to stealth right now). Most werewolves in game are pretty decently able to blend into their surroundings and only have their eyes glow during powerful attacks. I would prefer this to be consistent for player characters, especially since my werewolf is more of a martial brawler and in his nonwerewolf farm is a seasoned altmer soldier. I'm fine with skill styles being more creative and flashy but I would prefer the base models to keep the spirit of werewolves that fit with prior trends.

Sorry for the weird reply order but you posted while I was writing the other post also had to edit a few things I worded weird.

I honestly don't mind which direction they choose for the werewolf design. I obviously don't want a cartoon werewolf atm. However the stealth thing I can understand but who needs stealth when you can literally close the gap in seconds and rip something apart? Lol But yes stealth is important I just don't know if they're gonna implement it. Yeah glowing eyes during attacks would be cool. That's the way I would do it too.

Yeah that's fair. I mentioned it briefly but mostly what I was trying to express is I would prefer they stick to lore. I'm ok with werewolf abilities activating an eye glow (in fact I would find this to be a really cool mechanic and nod to other things we see in game) but I do not want it to be on the model by default. My one werewolf character is a more traditional tes werewolf. If the werewolf rework is enjoyable as I've mentioned a few times I would also like reimagining skill styles like werebear, changeling, undead werewolf, daedric, etc since several of these exist in lore and also make sense for premium styles down the line (but also probably require more extensive model work and will be crown related content) so I could maybe use the skill line on other characters with story justifications and I have several friends who really want their werebears to be depicted properly in game. I mostly just want to see cool things because I do love shapeshifters more than werewolves in general but I also like TES's take on werewolves more than most and I don't want to see it turned into something it's not.I also really want to see both vampire and werewolf lines expanded further since there are more shapeshifters than just werewolves and vampires in TES have different bloodlines similar to VTM that have been criminally underutilized outside of lorebooks and a few quests so reworking both to be more free and fitting rp fantasy would be ideal.

For example my werewolf character is a bit different than other werewolves in the lore because I like to see my werewolf take different forms like the wolfman form aka werewolf lord, or a regular wolf, or the common werewolf form in ESO. Kinda like a multiform werewolf or evolved lycanthrope. A werewolf that has full control and change forms at will depending on which situation I am in like am I hunting? In a town or around regular humans? Or in a full fledge fight with another werewolf or crazy creature. I like to see all types of werewolf forms. They obviously exist in the Elder Scrolls Universe. Man Beasts, Regular wolf like The Packmaster in the werewolf quest, behemoth, and werewolf lords. There's also the werewolf pack structures too but yeah.

This is why longterm I really want to see skill styles give alternative werwolf forms. The main one and the recolors should stay close to the common werewolves since that is probably what fit a lot of characters, but I really do want to see over time alternative models and forms. The main ones I want to see are an undead, changeling, and daedric variant, but I also want to see werebears and man beasts and other things too. They really have potential to get creative with it and make werewolf fit a lot more players' visions of their characters and expand on the werewolf/shapeshifter fantasy. Werewolf can be so much more than it currently is in game.

I don't get why people don't want to play Werewolf to play as a werewolf. People play Vampire to play as a vampire, and they don't ask for Vampire to get a style to look like something completely different. Werewolf should be about roleplaying as a werewolf, not these other, unrelated creatures.

Honestly I'd imagine the issue has more been ZOS. They've bloated the Werewolves way too much while ignoring every other type of Were-Creature (Even the Werewolf Lord has ended up being a Lamae Bal and Vampire Lord knock off then anything really unique).

Like TES has different forms for were-creatures with Bat, Bear, Boar, Lion, crocodile, vulture, Wolf and maybe a Shark but ZOS only does Wolves and it just gets more silly the more they do stuff for only Wolves.