So far I have not been lucky enough to get the drop. Given how I am frequently hit with atrocious luck in ESO's rng systems, I am a bit frustrated with this new system. I've already talked about how frustrating and unfun the tales of tribute card fragments and lead drops are for months and this feels like another version of that. I play this game a lot and am very passionate about it so while it stings and is frustrating, I probably will longterm not feel the cost of it much, but I think about my friends who play less and how this could be a lot more impactful on them and their progress. And yes, I do also see it like above as a delay in me getting 1k worth of cosmetics I want in the shop because I need to recoup for the fragment.

I wish ZOS would understand rng without pity can be problematic with edge cases that can lowroll. This is the whole reason we got the gamechanging system that is stickerbook in game, to mitigate 600 runs of vma and not having an inferno staff drop once (yes, hi hello that was me too). They either need to consider a pity system to their rng (crown crates, leads, these new event fragments) or overhaul them completely. I would feel less bad if I knew there was a pity behind the scenes where I may not get this fragment for this event but I was guaranteed next event to get the fragment if I did not get the free fragment in this one for example. The way the system currently is it feels and and reminds me of some of my most frustrating moments in this game with past lead/gear farming and feels like it doesn't fit the vision of reducing fomo/player frustrations.

I was surprised that the Saddle isn't even available for Trade Bars in the Impresario. Making it drop only from the gold boxes and subject to RNG just means that I park a character in Stonefalls, do the Daily to steal the pig, open my gold box/trade bar satchel and then don't do anything else related to the event/logout.

Alaztor91 wrote: »

I was surprised that the Saddle isn't even available for Trade Bars in the Impresario. Making it drop only from the gold boxes and subject to RNG just means that I park a character in Stonefalls, do the Daily to steal the pig, open my gold box/trade bar satchel and then don't do anything else related to the event/logout.

This isn't the only source of it, it's just a way of having a chance of getting it for free, but it will be purchasable from the Impressario during the next event (Anniversary Jubilee)

Elendildur wrote: »

Alaztor91 wrote: »

I was surprised that the Saddle isn't even available for Trade Bars in the Impresario. Making it drop only from the gold boxes and subject to RNG just means that I park a character in Stonefalls, do the Daily to steal the pig, open my gold box/trade bar satchel and then don't do anything else related to the event/logout.

This isn't the only source of it, it's just a way of having a chance of getting it for free, but it will be purchasable from the Impressario during the next event (Anniversary Jubilee)

Yup, I think some of these changes have not been communicated well (at least to those who don't closely follow streams, patch notes, etc.). Players are getting a chance to get some fragments "early" for free, but they will still be available for purchase with trade bars on the regular event schedule.

I can understand the complaint about the RNG aspect of it though. I wish they'd generally move away from relying on frustrating (and likely flawed) rng systems for event rewards and items, and tie them to completing specific event tasks.

You know ZOS could have just not have allowed us to get the fragment early, and made us wait until the next event to buy it the usual way. This isnt a RNG only fragment. We are getting the chance to get it EARLY this event. The next event (in a few days btw) you can get the fragment the usual way through the vendor for 1000 bars. I like the idea that we even have a chance to get it early for free, even if its a slim chance. Better then the way we had it before, where there was NO chance to get it free and you had to wait until it came out from the vendor for 1000 bars. Least now you have a chance to save your bars if you do get it.

As long as it shows up at the Impressario next event, I don't see a problem with it.

I still see a problem with the fact that if you aren't lucky enough with RNG, you have to PAY for it later while other players get it for free during a limited event. If it were earned, that's one thing, or if the chance for drop were extended into the anniversary event. But since it's entirely RNG, it still feels like the players who don't get it are getting hosed by having to spend trade bars.

People are a bit unbelievable.
This fragment normally wouldn't even be available under any circumstances.
So they pop it in as a possible rare drop, and people still complain.
I would tell ZoS to just go back not offering any early fragments, to take away the issue, as it's impossible to make people happy.
I play multiple accounts and did get a couple of the saddles on a few of the accounts. The vast majority I did not and I don't feel cheated or that wa-wa-wa those accounts will have to use bars when the other few got it free. I just feel happy a few got it, nothing more.

The frustration for me isn't so much that some people get it early and save 1k trade bars. It's simply that it's random and on top of that not farmable.

Guaranteed if you do something to earn it (non-random) is good because you can choose if you want to engage with the content for the reward.

Random and farmable at least means if you put in the time your chances go up (just please with better odds than something like the anniversary style pages). This approach has the advantage of encouraging more interaction with the event as well.

But a random chance that you can only get once a day can leave people frustrated and also unengaged.

Alastrine wrote: »

People are a bit unbelievable.
This fragment normally wouldn't even be available under any circumstances.
So they pop it in as a possible rare drop, and people still complain.
I would tell ZoS to just go back not offering any early fragments, to take away the issue, as it's impossible to make people happy.
I play multiple accounts and did get a couple of the saddles on a few of the accounts. The vast majority I did not and I don't feel cheated or that wa-wa-wa those accounts will have to use bars when the other few got it free. I just feel happy a few got it, nothing more.

Same here, I happened to get the drop on an account I won't be getting the mount on, but the idea of being mad because my main didn't (hasn't yet - there's still time!) doesn't make any sense to me.

Same as when they gave a away the Coldharbour house - I didn't get it on the one account I really wanted it (tho my main had several of the stupid gold thingies) but that's just the breaks - a chance at something you don't have is still better than no chance at all

This isn't a jealousy issue, this is about the ongoing issues with rng and eso drops. A random drop system with no pity means someone will lowroll and while that may not seem bad at the start, it adds up dramatically.

If every event offers a fragment, and we have about 1 a month and a player never rngs a fragment in any event for that year, they will be 12,000 trade bars behind. On the flipside, a player who highrolls and gets every fragment can have up to 12,000 trade bars to spend. Player 1 with bad rng cannot mitigate this or change this at all and is just down to if the server rolls lucky. Having players potentially have a dramatically different income of trade bars that significant is not fun or fair. Are you okay with potentially having that much less of a limited currency? I'm not.

I don't blame or resent other players who get the drop, but ZOS needs to realize this is not rewarding or enjoyable. Without a hard pity like I suggested in my first post (making it so that if you do not get a drop one event you are guaranteed to have it drop the next or something to mitigate low rng edge cases) this system over time will probably become toxic for the game.

They learned this lesson with stickerbook, they at least acknowledge this with map based leads, so I'm baffled as to the step back here when they have known for a while their rng does not treat everyone equal and can dramatically impact a player's experience.

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Emeratis wrote: »

This isn't a jealousy issue, this is about the ongoing issues with rng and eso drops. A random drop system with no pity means someone will lowroll and while that may not seem bad at the start, it adds up dramatically.

If every event offers a fragment, and we have about 1 a month and a player never rngs a fragment in any event for that year, they will be 12,000 trade bars behind. On the flipside, a player who highrolls and gets every fragment can have up to 12,000 trade bars to spend. Player 1 with bad rng cannot mitigate this or change this at all and is just down to if the server rolls lucky. Having players potentially have a dramatically different income of trade bars that significant is not fun or fair. Are you okay with potentially having that much less of a limited currency? I'm not.

I don't blame or resent other players who get the drop, but ZOS needs to realize this is not rewarding or enjoyable. Without a hard pity like I suggested in my first post (making it so that if you do not get a drop one event you are guaranteed to have it drop the next or something to mitigate low rng edge cases) this system over time will probably become toxic for the game.

They learned this lesson with stickerbook, they at least acknowledge this with map based leads, so I'm baffled as to the step back here when they have known for a while their rng does not treat everyone equal and can dramatically impact a player's experience.

Of course it's a jealousy issue. You're suggesting entitlement deserving pity which simply isn't the case.

All players are offered the same number of trade bars (excluding premium purchase of course). Because some players hit a random lottery doesn't make those who didn't any less whole.

The moment the words "not fair" are used in reference to somebody other than oneself getting a free prize, that's jealousy peeking through.

I don't appreciate assumptions being made about me or why I'm advocating for this. As I said in my first post, I play a lot so even if I lowroll it will probably be a wash for me at the end of the day, but some of my friends have far less time to play or don't play as often and it will negatively impact them. I frequently check in during events with my guildies to see how the event is treating them and some people lowroll and without help would not get certain items from events. Unlike those rare items, friends and guildies cannot help a player lowrolling rng wise. It is purely down to if a player is lucky or not.

I advocate against rng based systems in eso because I've been on the bad side of it before multiple times. I have been farming a Bastion Nymic lead for a year and a half at least, doing 2-4 of them a day. I still have not gotten my lead. I was 600 drops before I got my first vma inferno and almost got kicked from a core prog because of it. This is why rng based systems such as this can be problematic. ZOS has walked back this problematic rng in the past so I don't understand why they do it here and now when people are already anxious about the new system.

This is my last attempt at explaining it, if you don't understand it at this point I'm done engaging.

Emeratis wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Emeratis wrote: »

This isn't a jealousy issue, this is about the ongoing issues with rng and eso drops. A random drop system with no pity means someone will lowroll and while that may not seem bad at the start, it adds up dramatically.

If every event offers a fragment, and we have about 1 a month and a player never rngs a fragment in any event for that year, they will be 12,000 trade bars behind. On the flipside, a player who highrolls and gets every fragment can have up to 12,000 trade bars to spend. Player 1 with bad rng cannot mitigate this or change this at all and is just down to if the server rolls lucky. Having players potentially have a dramatically different income of trade bars that significant is not fun or fair. Are you okay with potentially having that much less of a limited currency? I'm not.

I don't blame or resent other players who get the drop, but ZOS needs to realize this is not rewarding or enjoyable. Without a hard pity like I suggested in my first post (making it so that if you do not get a drop one event you are guaranteed to have it drop the next or something to mitigate low rng edge cases) this system over time will probably become toxic for the game.

They learned this lesson with stickerbook, they at least acknowledge this with map based leads, so I'm baffled as to the step back here when they have known for a while their rng does not treat everyone equal and can dramatically impact a player's experience.

Of course it's a jealousy issue. You're suggesting entitlement deserving pity which simply isn't the case.

All players are offered the same number of trade bars (excluding premium purchase of course). Because some players hit a random lottery doesn't make those who didn't any less whole.

The moment the words "not fair" are used in reference to somebody other than oneself getting a free prize, that's jealousy peeking through.

I don't appreciate assumptions being made about me or why I'm advocating for this. As I said in my first post, I play a lot so even if I lowroll it will probably be a wash for me at the end of the day, but some of my friends have far less time to play or don't play as often and it will negatively impact them. I frequently check in during events with my guildies to see how the event is treating them and some people lowroll and without help would not get certain items from events. Unlike those rare items, friends and guildies cannot help a player lowrolling rng wise. It is purely down to if a player is lucky or not.

I advocate against rng based systems in eso because I've been on the bad side of it before multiple times. I have been farming a Bastion Nymic lead for a year and a half at least, doing 2-4 of them a day. I still have not gotten my lead. I was 600 drops before I got my first vma inferno and almost got kicked from a core prog because of it. This is why rng based systems such as this can be problematic. ZOS has walked back this problematic rng in the past so I don't understand why they do it here and now when people are already anxious about the new system.

This is my last attempt at explaining it, if you don't understand it at this point I'm done engaging.

It's not exactly a negative impact to not be gaurenteed a bonus collectable that has never been available from that source before. In this case you only have less than a week to wait for it to be available in the normal way.

It's a completely different beast to leads which aren't available any other way (or at least in any reliable way if you account for IC and IA).

The pets/morphs have mostly been the biggest incentive to do events, if you're going to give everything to everyone for free on the first day just for turning up it kinda makes the whole thing pointless.

BTW, when I say that this is a matter of how we fundamentally perceive fairness, I want to point out that this is something that is so deeply-seated that it affects animals too.

Take for example, this excerpt:

[The monkey test subjects] normally like cucumbers just fine. So we compared that to a control where both of them were trading and getting a cucumber and they were more than happy to eat those cucumber pieces when both they and their partner were getting a cucumber. And in another control we controlled to see what happened if the grapes were visible but no one was getting them. So that, control was actually particularly mean. We would wave the grapes in front of their faces until they gestured towards it. And then when they gestured we would put the grape down and we would give them the cucumber. But importantly, we did the same thing for both monkeys. So they both ended up getting the cucumber and in both cases they accepted and ate their cucumbers most of the time. Whereas, when their partner got a grape, they were much more likely to refuse their cucumber, which suggests that they aren't as enthusiastic about those cucumbers when their partner is getting something better.

Okay, that's a lot of messages. Incoming wall of text ig.
First things first:
The idea of this post is to give constructive criticism and feedback to ZoS, since they've said they are more interested in it. They changed stuff related to events and odds in the past (Sunna'rah anyone?), so may as well write.

Since now we can get a lot of other things with trade bars, I wouldn't say a straight comparison is accurate by any means. That to people saying "you couldn't get it before and now you can, and you're complaining". If the intention of the idea isallowing people to use bars on other things and increase player engagement with the event, I think this system goes in the right direction, but the details make it miss the target.

As I said on my first post, I think either:

1. same chance, or even lower but you can also get it in purple boxes
2. guaranteed after X golden boxes (golden pursuits?)
3. getting it guaranteed in the first event box

would work effectively on those aims. Ordered from most to least player engagement.
As it stands right now, it doesn't increase player engagement with the event, and as the replies to the thread show, it'll keep people divided. As a way to spare people some bars, it's not consistent either.
Last but not least, last mount fragment can be "earned" in Zenithar's Event, bought in Witches Festival. If scheduling follows previous years, that means earnable in july, purchasable in october. I think there's a considerable gap there.

This fella right here said what I was trying to convey.

Ezhh wrote: »

The frustration for me isn't so much that some people get it early and save 1k trade bars. It's simply that it's random and on top of that not farmable.
Guaranteed if you do something to earn it (non-random) is good because you can choose if you want to engage with the content for the reward.
Random and farmable at least means if you put in the time your chances go up (just please with better odds than something like the anniversary style pages). This approach has the advantage of encouraging more interaction with the event as well.
But a random chance that you can only get once a day can leave people frustrated and also unengaged.

I wanted to answer to the following comment, despite the obvious snarky tone, because I really want to believe ZoS is interested in constructive criticism, and I think you wrote a lot of statements that don't hold their water, while presenting them as unquestionable truths. The new system is fine, but some details could use polishing.

I don't think there was much FOMO on the previous event structure, you could play without any DLCs, and still get all impresario rewards by the end of a year, with a wide margin. Only rewards you'd miss were the new zone event rewards, but those were an incentive to buy the chapter instead of waiting to be available for crowns.

I describe this as a way for players to save on tradebars, now that they have a better value. However, there's no possible action by the player to increase their likelihood of earning said reward. One that misses a chance to increase player engagement while at it.

What I said "on the name of new players", as you put it, is based of years managing a social and pve guild.
Newer people always noticed one of the obvious issues of the previous tickets system: depending on the time they started playing, they would need to wait for years and still need to spend crowns on tickets to get certain past year rewards, which I understand how it is frustrating, because rewards from 2021 to 2025 required 195 to 215 tickets per year.
That was the only FOMO the older event system had.
Considering how they increased ticket yield during those years, and how they've changed the system, I think they did consider the issue.
My guess is I'll be on 15-20k? trade bars by the end of season 0. I got most rewards in Bazaar from many years of gameplay. A newer player will not, so saving 1k per event is gonna be a bigger deal for them.

Blood_again wrote: »

I take the new system as the following:
1. You have a chance to get the fragment by participating
2. If no luck, no worries. You can buy it with bars during the next event.
I like it, because it removes lots of FOMO and makes the purchase not quite necessary at the same time.
While you describe this like somebody took away your chances to get 2 more skill styles, in fact it is the opposite.
You didn't have a chance to obtain a new event fragment this way. You always had to buy it with tickets before now.
Now you've been granted a chance to get it for free and you're moaning it is bad. Oh, really?
And sure, there is an argument about new players. Give us more, in the name of new players