Probably the most unfun patch for PvP if you’re not playing DK
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LittleLionLeone✭✭✭I'm just getting sick of hearing the whip over and over again 20 times in 30 seconds.3 -
Estin✭✭✭✭✭
✭BXR_Lonestar wrote: »BXR_Lonestar wrote: »Returning PvP-Player here. Quit PvP after they announced subclassing, returned when I heard about the coming pure class buffs. But after playing with my magplar and getting absolutely nuked by dks, I don't even want to imagine how OP they will be with those buffs on top.
I don't think they'll be able to balance this game at this point. Just going to enjoy the other aspects of the game, PvP is just not fun anymore unless you play meta ig.
They're trying to tapdance around subclassing. They know subclassing is broken, but because there are some people who like it, they either lack the authority or the resolve to admit that subclassing was a mistake and to remove it (along with other mistakes like scribing and hybridization), and so the only way they can make pureclassing more attractive is if they make pureclassing broken-strong too. Because they're not nerfing what pure-classing is competing against, they're just trying to one-up it. So it was always going to be this way.
And it is just going to be like Destiny's revolving meta with the way they are going to keep releasing updates to pureclass - every class will get its day so to speak, and everyone will be playing those classes.
While I think the pure class updates are a great step in the right direction, I don't think they can fix this game while they continue to leave things they KNOW are a problem broken and still in the game. So I've dialed back how much I'm playing the game, and may end up focusing on other single player games or other ES Titles.
I'm with you on this. Reading between the lines on their actions IMO I think old leadership was chasing the Korean MMO trends of one toon to "do all the things" and current leadership is like... nah fam we are ESO... class identity has always been our bread and butter.
I do think they are trying to unwind it without going full removing it. Removing it IMO would be better long term for them but... I think they are in a delicate place ATM where it's hard to convince people in the boardroom that this is the direction we need to head.. so you end up in this middle area of... well lets rework classes and bring back some class identity.
I actually came back after a year off because of U49 and am having a blast. Yes, I'm a DK and PvP is filled with DKs but... we always do this dance right? Each update the meta gets shifted and people chase that new meta. Every game is like this... it's just a wave that comes and goes. Give it a few weeks or another update passes and things will settle.
I'm seeing a lot of non DK skills on my recap for what it is worth and some of these non DK builds hit like a friggin truck.
Those non-DK's that are hitting like a truck are either using some exploits that allow you to stack multiple mundus stones or multiple 5 piece sets (they do exist), or they're subclassed and using one of a tiny handful of builds that have disgusting burst, or both. There is so much busted/broken stuff in PVP right now with glitched shield tosses that will lock you down with no way to break free, to pulls using charm so there is zero defense to getting pulled (and hence, zero way to help your teammates survive). Its honestly driven me away from the game. This stuff is no longer fun to play.
And while I hear rumors of vengeance becoming a permanent server, I don't think that is the answer either because the last few rounds of vengeance have not been fun either. PVP right now just feels like if you're not cheesing it or if you aren't abusing some kind of exploit, your not being competitive, and that just isn't the way I play, so I'm basically just dialing back how much I play this game altogether. At some point they will be forced to start dialing back the power and addressing these issues, but until they do, I'm content to play elsewhere.
I play pure NB and can still hit hard like a truck. You don't need to subclass 2-3 damage skill lines to hit hard. Even without monomyth, just having null arca on is enough to do a stupid amount of damage to someone because your spammable is almost always going to be critting, and when your spammable lands at the same time null arca procs, you can bring someone from full to less than half hp instantly, to which spec bow or your execute would finish the job. I can even use order's wrath instead of null arca and achieve similar results. Not everyone who is hitting hard is cheating or using broken subclassed setups.1 -
React✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Good. Heinous subclass meta has been addressed.
Now we move onto the root cause of extreme tank/burst polarization: busted sets/stats.
Nuke Monomyth and I bet my account the meta is immediately less terrible. I have been saying this since the damn thing released on PTS (and it's even more insulting because it's P2W) but since it doesn't show up doing 15k on your death recap I guess let's nerf DK instead?
Nuke Vicious Death and noobs are no longer double punished just for being noobs.
How literally are we taking this? Because nothing comes even remotely close to what a cp 2000++ Nightblade could do during 1.6 era. When you show me a DK that can front bar gank, then swap to back bar 1vx duel-brawler, let me know lol.
Come to think of it, with the power-creep inflation when all class refreshes are finished, maybe we going full circle here.Urzigurumash wrote: »
That React video can be seen as an exhibit of the extreme multiplicative scaling of differences between other elements VD provides. Best player, best class, extreme gimmick set.
I see some comments about my video so ill just share some info here about that build & the class.
That build is using bloodspawn. It has 40k spell resist and 32k+ physical resist. It has 4k crit resist. It uses 3 defensive blue CP. It has infinite sustain, like i could not possibly ever run out, and I'm using less than 1k of both regens fully buffed.
In most of the clips in this video, id been kiting these groups of 5-10+ players around for minutes at a time. This isn't some glass cannon bomber that dies 90% of the time they send an attempt.
It has the damage to easily kill a properly built, 35k HP rallying cry player. Like, I can do 35k damage in one GCD to a player like that. While running VD frontbar.
Nothing in the history of the game has been capable of this level of damage with these stats. I'm using VD because big number funny, but you can accomplish similar results with acuity, any crit damage/chance set, or even a defensive set frontbar. That is how strong this class is. The sets are good sure, but they aren't what is enabling the power level. It is the reworked class.
Im having a blast anyways, I hope they bring every class up to this level. It would certainly be preferable to the subclassing slop we've had this past year.
@ReactSlower - PC/NA - 2000+ CP
React Faster - XB/NA - 1500+ CP
ContentTwitch.tv/reactfaster
Youtube.com/@ReactFaster8 -
hoangdz✭✭✭✭
Yeah seriously, 1vX is not a measure of anything beyond how bad the X is, though it does demonstrate the extreme power gap caused by busted sets/stats.Urzigurumash wrote: »A clip of the Lebomb James of ESO pwning pugs just doesn't cut it in this court, sorry. Objection, irrelevant
When one good player wipes an entire 24man structured zerg raid like they could do with ground oils in 2014, then maybe we can say 1vX is an issue.
Casual PvPers will need more than a week to adapt to the meta. Sweaty players haven't even adapted yet. Being good doesn't make you immune to knee jerk opinions.
pure DK is nuking everyone in duels
Do we not remember when there was a stretch of about what, 4 years where MagNB and MagSorc were absolute kings when it came to duels? It’s been one week and we’re supposed to be up in arms cause a pure class is beating the mutt meta no one liked.. i can’t really sympathize with any of this, subclassing was so harmful to ESO anyone complaining about pure class power just seems insane to me. Will fighting against DKs get old over the next few months, yes. Is it worse than fighting against SorcWardens that constantly reset the fight, nope.
Honestly, what are we angry about? Are you trying to play a pure class other than a DK? Cause that wasn’t competitive before u49 either.. maybe you made it work cause you’re a top 2%er I dunno. But the majority of players ran meta mutts cause pure classes couldn’t compete. U49 is the first step at giving power back and also reasons to play other characters than the one “main” with all the skill points to pick and choose the best skill lines.
Subclassing WAS harmful, no doubt about it. But if we look at it objectively, I think you and I can at least agree that if ZOS makes one class stronger than everything else, then people will also naturally gravitate towards that class. Such is the case for pure DK. I know there are still subclased builds in Cyro, but there are also a lot more DKs now and once the meta settles you will see just more DKs than previous meta builds. I think it's fair to say that, bar enthusiasm, this patch has actually reduced diversity compared to last patch.
The main issue I am discussing in this thread is that pure DK is currently so far ahead of other pure classes that other non-DK pure class mains like me will now have 3 options:
1) Play DK
2) Use a subclass build
3) Sit out for the patch
None of these options involve playing our own pure class, which is honestly pretty disheartening. I don't enjoy DK's playstyle, nor do I want to subclass to compete. That is why I said I will sit out for the patch because as a pure Sorc, I simply cannot compete with people on equal skill level as me because they are a DK and I am not.0 -
Lord_Hev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Good. Heinous subclass meta has been addressed.
Now we move onto the root cause of extreme tank/burst polarization: busted sets/stats.
Nuke Monomyth and I bet my account the meta is immediately less terrible. I have been saying this since the damn thing released on PTS (and it's even more insulting because it's P2W) but since it doesn't show up doing 15k on your death recap I guess let's nerf DK instead?
Nuke Vicious Death and noobs are no longer double punished just for being noobs.
How literally are we taking this? Because nothing comes even remotely close to what a cp 2000++ Nightblade could do during 1.6 era. When you show me a DK that can front bar gank, then swap to back bar 1vx duel-brawler, let me know lol.
Come to think of it, with the power-creep inflation when all class refreshes are finished, maybe we going full circle here.Urzigurumash wrote: »
That React video can be seen as an exhibit of the extreme multiplicative scaling of differences between other elements VD provides. Best player, best class, extreme gimmick set.
I see some comments about my video so ill just share some info here about that build & the class.
That build is using bloodspawn. It has 40k spell resist and 32k+ physical resist. It has 4k crit resist. It uses 3 defensive blue CP. It has infinite sustain, like i could not possibly ever run out, and I'm using less than 1k of both regens fully buffed.
In most of the clips in this video, id been kiting these groups of 5-10+ players around for minutes at a time. This isn't some glass cannon bomber that dies 90% of the time they send an attempt.
It has the damage to easily kill a properly built, 35k HP rallying cry player. Like, I can do 35k damage in one GCD to a player like that. While running VD frontbar.
Nothing in the history of the game has been capable of this level of damage with these stats. I'm using VD because big number funny, but you can accomplish similar results with acuity, any crit damage/chance set, or even a defensive set frontbar. That is how strong this class is. The sets are good sure, but they aren't what is enabling the power level. It is the reworked class.
Im having a blast anyways, I hope they bring every class up to this level. It would certainly be preferable to the subclassing slop we've had this past year.
With 2000 uncapped cp, the NB pure ganker I knew(Dark Synergy) had 30k health, 45k stamina, 20ishk magicka, 2k of every resource regen, 50k spell resist with all medium armor because of 7 nirnhoned, all pure stats, and could perma block on master's sword and board back bar, dueling sweats with just surprise attack, incap, killer's blade.
Bow gank build primarily btw. The backbar was just there to face tank people and try to brawl kill some, he could just kite and get away when he needed too.
Irrelevant in this day and age, but the claim of "strongest in history" is a dubious one. You also still have to kite. The ancient 1.1 magdks never ever used los. They literally only casted talons and spammed batswarm after every 2nd or 3rd talons when they had a minimum of 5 players wailing on them and feeding them ult gen. Their power grew exponentially the more people dogpiled them.
If we look at the last 6ish years in a vacuum though, which is more relevant as the last 6 years is when this current balance climate has fully evolved and grown, then absolutely.2 -
Lord_Hev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Yeah seriously, 1vX is not a measure of anything beyond how bad the X is, though it does demonstrate the extreme power gap caused by busted sets/stats.Urzigurumash wrote: »A clip of the Lebomb James of ESO pwning pugs just doesn't cut it in this court, sorry. Objection, irrelevant
When one good player wipes an entire 24man structured zerg raid like they could do with ground oils in 2014, then maybe we can say 1vX is an issue.
Casual PvPers will need more than a week to adapt to the meta. Sweaty players haven't even adapted yet. Being good doesn't make you immune to knee jerk opinions.
pure DK is nuking everyone in duels
Do we not remember when there was a stretch of about what, 4 years where MagNB and MagSorc were absolute kings when it came to duels? It’s been one week and we’re supposed to be up in arms cause a pure class is beating the mutt meta no one liked.. i can’t really sympathize with any of this, subclassing was so harmful to ESO anyone complaining about pure class power just seems insane to me. Will fighting against DKs get old over the next few months, yes. Is it worse than fighting against SorcWardens that constantly reset the fight, nope.
Honestly, what are we angry about? Are you trying to play a pure class other than a DK? Cause that wasn’t competitive before u49 either.. maybe you made it work cause you’re a top 2%er I dunno. But the majority of players ran meta mutts cause pure classes couldn’t compete. U49 is the first step at giving power back and also reasons to play other characters than the one “main” with all the skill points to pick and choose the best skill lines.
Subclassing WAS harmful, no doubt about it. But if we look at it objectively, I think you and I can at least agree that if ZOS makes one class stronger than everything else, then people will also naturally gravitate towards that class. Such is the case for pure DK. I know there are still subclased builds in Cyro, but there are also a lot more DKs now and once the meta settles you will see just more DKs than previous meta builds. I think it's fair to say that, bar enthusiasm, this patch has actually reduced diversity compared to last patch.
The main issue I am discussing in this thread is that pure DK is currently so far ahead of other pure classes that other non-DK pure class mains like me will now have 3 options:
1) Play DK
2) Use a subclass build
3) Sit out for the patch
None of these options involve playing our own pure class, which is honestly pretty disheartening. I don't enjoy DK's playstyle, nor do I want to subclass to compete. That is why I said I will sit out for the patch because as a pure Sorc, I simply cannot compete with people on equal skill level as me because they are a DK and I am not.
There was no diversity before this update. Every single fake class I ran into had lighting form and betty netch active on their character models.
My only options as pureclass main last patch was to suffer on every single spec I played like the masochist I am. The only class I felt I could just survive reasonably on was my templar and warden where all I could do was stalemate people to infinity as a minimum.
Now my options are to suffer on every pureclass except my DKs. Now my DKs can come out and make the subclass meta builds feel the suffering fire of dk being back.2 -
hoangdz✭✭✭✭
Yeah seriously, 1vX is not a measure of anything beyond how bad the X is, though it does demonstrate the extreme power gap caused by busted sets/stats.Urzigurumash wrote: »A clip of the Lebomb James of ESO pwning pugs just doesn't cut it in this court, sorry. Objection, irrelevant
When one good player wipes an entire 24man structured zerg raid like they could do with ground oils in 2014, then maybe we can say 1vX is an issue.
Casual PvPers will need more than a week to adapt to the meta. Sweaty players haven't even adapted yet. Being good doesn't make you immune to knee jerk opinions.
pure DK is nuking everyone in duels
Do we not remember when there was a stretch of about what, 4 years where MagNB and MagSorc were absolute kings when it came to duels? It’s been one week and we’re supposed to be up in arms cause a pure class is beating the mutt meta no one liked.. i can’t really sympathize with any of this, subclassing was so harmful to ESO anyone complaining about pure class power just seems insane to me. Will fighting against DKs get old over the next few months, yes. Is it worse than fighting against SorcWardens that constantly reset the fight, nope.
Honestly, what are we angry about? Are you trying to play a pure class other than a DK? Cause that wasn’t competitive before u49 either.. maybe you made it work cause you’re a top 2%er I dunno. But the majority of players ran meta mutts cause pure classes couldn’t compete. U49 is the first step at giving power back and also reasons to play other characters than the one “main” with all the skill points to pick and choose the best skill lines.
Subclassing WAS harmful, no doubt about it. But if we look at it objectively, I think you and I can at least agree that if ZOS makes one class stronger than everything else, then people will also naturally gravitate towards that class. Such is the case for pure DK. I know there are still subclased builds in Cyro, but there are also a lot more DKs now and once the meta settles you will see just more DKs than previous meta builds. I think it's fair to say that, bar enthusiasm, this patch has actually reduced diversity compared to last patch.
The main issue I am discussing in this thread is that pure DK is currently so far ahead of other pure classes that other non-DK pure class mains like me will now have 3 options:
1) Play DK
2) Use a subclass build
3) Sit out for the patch
None of these options involve playing our own pure class, which is honestly pretty disheartening. I don't enjoy DK's playstyle, nor do I want to subclass to compete. That is why I said I will sit out for the patch because as a pure Sorc, I simply cannot compete with people on equal skill level as me because they are a DK and I am not.
There was no diversity before this update. Every single fake class I ran into had lighting form and betty netch active on their character models.
My only options as pureclass main last patch was to suffer on every single spec I played like the masochist I am. The only class I felt I could just survive reasonably on was my templar and warden where all I could do was stalemate people to infinity as a minimum.
Now my options are to suffer on every pureclass except my DKs. Now my DKs can come out and make the subclass meta builds feel the suffering fire of dk being back.
There was no diversity last patch, but I could compete vs good players in subclassed builds. This patch also does not have any diversity either, but this time I cannot compete with the same players on DK. The reworked DK is so far ahead of subclass that my pure Sorc simply cannot compete anymore. This is the core difference I have been talking about, but I don't think you understand that.
Like I said, I am comparing last patch vs this patch using my perspective on pure sorc. The difference is that last patch I could play my Sorc and compete, but this patch is impossible. That is why I am sitting out of PvP until my class gets reworked.1 -
hoangdz✭✭✭✭With 2000 uncapped cp, the NB pure ganker I knew(Dark Synergy) had 30k health, 45k stamina, 20ishk magicka, 2k of every resource regen, 50k spell resist with all medium armor because of 7 nirnhoned, all pure stats, and could perma block on master's sword and board back bar, dueling sweats with just surprise attack, incap, killer's blade.
Bow gank build primarily btw. The backbar was just there to face tank people and try to brawl kill some, he could just kite and get away when he needed too.
I can guarantee you that even if this person were to use that build with today's extra stats and fight the current DK, he would be obliterated within 2 GCDs. I don't have a lot of experience on my DK compared to someone like @React, but I could still nuke people in 45k resists and 40k HP with 2 combos. Corrosive Armor ignores his 50k resist completely, and Wings will cut his Spectral Bow damage by 50%. A 12k crit Bow will now deal 6k crit max, and that's assuming he can even get through React's 40k spell resist and 4.5k crit resist. There is a reason why we say DK is the best class the game has seen so far. The amount of burst damage and pressure current DK can dish out vs a maxed defense build is nothing we have seen before.0 -
Weesacs✭✭✭✭✭
The main issue I am discussing in this thread is that pure DK is currently so far ahead of other pure classes that other non-DK pure class mains like me will now have 3 options:
1) Play DK
2) Use a subclass build
3) Sit out for the patch
None of these options involve playing our own pure class, which is honestly pretty disheartening. I don't enjoy DK's playstyle, nor do I want to subclass to compete. That is why I said I will sit out for the patch because as a pure Sorc, I simply cannot compete with people on equal skill level as me because they are a DK and I am not.
Ofc pure DK is ahead of everything else in the game at the moment - they've just had their update applied. Im sure the other class changes will bring them inline with DK in due course.
In fact, subclassing has actually helped in this instance because at least you can select one of the DKs class lines and make your own class stronger. Thats what Ive done and my subclassing build is competing very well against pure DKs - and that is a fact.
Can you imagine how powerful the current DK would be if subclassing wasn't in the game?
My real life friend, (who is very good at PvP may I add) and who has used the cheesy assassin / animal companion / storm calling build since it came out is still ripping DKs a new one with this setup; its only the very top pure DK who he struggles against, but its not like they are god mode. Both myself and my friend are 100% competing with them.
My opinion? You're making a mountain out of a mole hill. This patch isn't as bad as you think it is.Edited by Weesacs on March 18, 2026 8:51AMBreton Templar
PS5 - EU - DC2 -
nightbringer1993✭✭✭The serious class imbalance and the way necro has been nerfed is the reason I play way less than I used to. This patch is an abomination to class balance. And once again necro is left in the trash can and feels like a scam where other classes like DK and warden are being treated with love.
PvP is deadPC EU1 -
hoangdz✭✭✭✭
The main issue I am discussing in this thread is that pure DK is currently so far ahead of other pure classes that other non-DK pure class mains like me will now have 3 options:
1) Play DK
2) Use a subclass build
3) Sit out for the patch
None of these options involve playing our own pure class, which is honestly pretty disheartening. I don't enjoy DK's playstyle, nor do I want to subclass to compete. That is why I said I will sit out for the patch because as a pure Sorc, I simply cannot compete with people on equal skill level as me because they are a DK and I am not.
Ofc pure DK is ahead of everything else in the game at the moment - they've just had their update applied. Im sure the other class changes will bring them inline with DK in due course.
In fact, subclassing has actually helped in this instance because at least you can select one of the DKs class lines and make your own class stronger. Thats what Ive done and my subclassing build is competing very well against pure DKs - and that is a fact.
Can you imagine how powerful the current DK would be if subclassing wasn't in the game?
My real life friend, (who is very good at PvP may I add) and who has used the cheesy assassin / animal companion / storm calling build since it came out is still ripping DKs a new one with this setup; its only the very top pure DK who he struggles against, but its not like they are god mode. Both myself and my friend are 100% competing with them.
My opinion? You're making a mountain out of a mole hill. This patch isn't as bad as you think it is.
You are essentially implying that I have to use subclass to win. That itself is literally a problem. If I have to wait for 9 months to play my class at the same level as DK, then I prefer just sitting out for that duration.
I can kill bad/average DKs just fine, but we don't really use average when talking about balance. The top DKs is what I am talking about.0 -
Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭Good. Heinous subclass meta has been addressed.
Now we move onto the root cause of extreme tank/burst polarization: busted sets/stats.
Nuke Monomyth and I bet my account the meta is immediately less terrible. I have been saying this since the damn thing released on PTS (and it's even more insulting because it's P2W) but since it doesn't show up doing 15k on your death recap I guess let's nerf DK instead?
Nuke Vicious Death and noobs are no longer double punished just for being noobs.
How literally are we taking this? Because nothing comes even remotely close to what a cp 2000++ Nightblade could do during 1.6 era. When you show me a DK that can front bar gank, then swap to back bar 1vx duel-brawler, let me know lol.
Come to think of it, with the power-creep inflation when all class refreshes are finished, maybe we going full circle here.Urzigurumash wrote: »
That React video can be seen as an exhibit of the extreme multiplicative scaling of differences between other elements VD provides. Best player, best class, extreme gimmick set.
I see some comments about my video so ill just share some info here about that build & the class.
That build is using bloodspawn. It has 40k spell resist and 32k+ physical resist. It has 4k crit resist. It uses 3 defensive blue CP. It has infinite sustain, like i could not possibly ever run out, and I'm using less than 1k of both regens fully buffed.
In most of the clips in this video, id been kiting these groups of 5-10+ players around for minutes at a time. This isn't some glass cannon bomber that dies 90% of the time they send an attempt.
It has the damage to easily kill a properly built, 35k HP rallying cry player. Like, I can do 35k damage in one GCD to a player like that. While running VD frontbar.
Nothing in the history of the game has been capable of this level of damage with these stats. I'm using VD because big number funny, but you can accomplish similar results with acuity, any crit damage/chance set, or even a defensive set frontbar. That is how strong this class is. The sets are good sure, but they aren't what is enabling the power level. It is the reworked class.
Im having a blast anyways, I hope they bring every class up to this level. It would certainly be preferable to the subclassing slop we've had this past year.
You have a 90:2 KD ratio early in the video. You imply you would have had smaller numbers without VD. I would call this Non-Representative Evidence, unsuitable for generalization. Rather like discussing where the 3 point line should be while watching Steph Curry in an All Star game.
To be clear my ulterior motive is that I've come to despise VD in the 2nd Crit Procs Era. It needs a fat nerf.
Whether DK does or not of course we cannot say until the rework is complete. I suspect it will be fine once Warden is done, since Warden is a much more versatile class. I'm not seeing any 2 shot Flame Staff Heavies from stealth. THAT was a truly busted DK, since DK has no business being a ranged gank.
But, we all want to hear Steph explain how he hits his shots, and we all look forward to your DK build video. 🤣
Edited by Urzigurumash on March 18, 2026 10:07AMXbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast1 -
Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭
The main issue I am discussing in this thread is that pure DK is currently so far ahead of other pure classes that other non-DK pure class mains like me will now have 3 options:
1) Play DK
2) Use a subclass build
3) Sit out for the patch
None of these options involve playing our own pure class, which is honestly pretty disheartening. I don't enjoy DK's playstyle, nor do I want to subclass to compete. That is why I said I will sit out for the patch because as a pure Sorc, I simply cannot compete with people on equal skill level as me because they are a DK and I am not.
Ofc pure DK is ahead of everything else in the game at the moment - they've just had their update applied. Im sure the other class changes will bring them inline with DK in due course.
In fact, subclassing has actually helped in this instance because at least you can select one of the DKs class lines and make your own class stronger. Thats what Ive done and my subclassing build is competing very well against pure DKs - and that is a fact.
Can you imagine how powerful the current DK would be if subclassing wasn't in the game?
My real life friend, (who is very good at PvP may I add) and who has used the cheesy assassin / animal companion / storm calling build since it came out is still ripping DKs a new one with this setup; its only the very top pure DK who he struggles against, but its not like they are god mode. Both myself and my friend are 100% competing with them.
My opinion? You're making a mountain out of a mole hill. This patch isn't as bad as you think it is.
You are essentially implying that I have to use subclass to win. That itself is literally a problem. If I have to wait for 9 months to play my class at the same level as DK, then I prefer just sitting out for that duration.
I can kill bad/average DKs just fine, but we don't really use average when talking about balance. The top DKs is what I am talking about.
Ok well we waited 9 YEARS to play DK at the MagSorc level.
(on xbox anyhow, we came after the batswarm meta)
(edit oh ur a stamsorc. well prepare for that to not even exist in 9 months like how stamdk no longer exists)
Edited by Urzigurumash on March 18, 2026 10:27AMXbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast2 -
Lord_Hev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭.With 2000 uncapped cp, the NB pure ganker I knew(Dark Synergy) had 30k health, 45k stamina, 20ishk magicka, 2k of every resource regen, 50k spell resist with all medium armor because of 7 nirnhoned, all pure stats, and could perma block on master's sword and board back bar, dueling sweats with just surprise attack, incap, killer's blade.
Bow gank build primarily btw. The backbar was just there to face tank people and try to brawl kill some, he could just kite and get away when he needed too.
I can guarantee you that even if this person were to use that build with today's extra stats and fight the current DK, he would be obliterated within 2 GCDs. I don't have a lot of experience on my DK compared to someone like @React, but I could still nuke people in 45k resists and 40k HP with 2 combos. Corrosive Armor ignores his 50k resist completely, and Wings will cut his Spectral Bow damage by 50%. A 12k crit Bow will now deal 6k crit max, and that's assuming he can even get through React's 40k spell resist and 4.5k crit resist. There is a reason why we say DK is the best class the game has seen so far. The amount of burst damage and pressure current DK can dish out vs a maxed defense build is nothing we have seen before.
I think the point I'm making on this is being lost. I'm not talking about time travel, because you can take the current best dk into 1.6, and it would get shredded through hard-cap resists by all the sorcs and nbs of its time doing 20k+ on basic attacks and the current dk has no wing reflect, no 7x nirnhoned, and capped cp which is basically permanently at like cp 300ish lol. The current dk can barely wipe "groups" with VD procs.
Which is why I specified the -capability- of playing a ranged gank build with a brawler melee backbar capable of perma-block tanking multiple people with zero build investment into survivability, just raw mini-emperor level of inflated stats because of excessive champion points. This sort of extreme outlier is not something you see today. But I suppose by today's standards full-on emperors are a joke. This speaks more about the game's numerical balancing then -specifically- DK though lol. Back then groups were wiped out by pure stats. Today groups are wiped out by vicious death procs and pull sets. We're trying to compare an acuity turn and burn build to a GANK BUILD that could perma-block tank 5+ people on a sword and board backbar and KILL, straight up 1v1 sweats that survived his initial gank. Not burst 1v1, prolonged 1v1s where he just slowly whittles them down because they are locked on the defensive trying to outheal a ganker with 30k health pressuring them down with sword and board holding block, and occasionally needing to self-heal with vigor and pierce armor spam. You let me know when a GANK -BUILD- today has enough raw power to backbone a double-offense set-up that can hold its own against 5 people holding block, then decide to start cloaking and kiting away on the bow bar again on a whim. Like idk if this is lost on you. That same nb with all those champion points could just put on an actual duel build and LOL. That type of extreme outlier is not something you ever see today.
Like I said, this is ultimately a silly thought exercise. But actually remembering the old eso we had... The strongest build in history in the "modern age" yes, absolutely. People here talking in awe of 20k power lashes lol rookie numbers. We are now seeing damage numbers that are getting close to the 1.6 2015 era again. This is amusing but also very concerning for the future of the game. This really needs more attention. Are we all prepared for the massively inflated power creep when all class refreshes are concluded? This is the real question, and I honestly do not know. It could go either positive or negative.0 -
xylena✭✭✭✭✭
✭
So exactly the same as every top meta build for the past X years, and DK at least needs to get into melee range at some point.kiting these groups of 5-10+ players around for minutes
It has the damage to easily kill a properly built, 35k HP rallying cry player
Both of these sets are busted to all hell. VD is a giant middle finger to anyone who wants to play as a team with noobs, and Acuity is mechanically degenerate. You could replace these in your builds with Hunding's Rage and still 1vX just fine, minus the toxic one shotting.I'm using VD because big number funny, but you can accomplish similar results with acuity
Agreed. Class identity makes the game fun. Busted sets make it unfun. VD, Acuity, RoA, Null Arca, etc... these sets cater to one shot pug stomping, a formula that has failed miserably.Im having a blast anyways, I hope they bring every class up to this level.
Agreed, the meta will be changing radically with every class rework, so I see no point screwing with the new classes until all 7 have released, we need to be targeting things that are a problem in every meta on any class, like VD and the other aforementioned busted sets/stats.Like I said, this is ultimately a silly thought exercise.PC/NA || Cyro/BGs || solo/smallscale || retired until Dagon brings a new dawn of PvP5 -
Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Agreed, the meta will be changing radically with every class rework, so I see no point screwing with the new classes until all 7 have released, we need to be targeting things that are a problem in every meta on any class, like VD and the other aforementioned busted sets/stats.Like I said, this is ultimately a silly thought exercise.
Perfectly said, that's exactly the idea I was after and hadn't quite reached.Xbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast3 -
Turtle_Bot✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Agreed, the meta will be changing radically with every class rework, so I see no point screwing with the new classes until all 7 have released, we need to be targeting things that are a problem in every meta on any class, like VD and the other aforementioned busted sets/stats.
This is where I'm at with balance at the moment. DK is really strong right now, but also some of the most fun it has been to play that class in a very long time (not just being OP, but the actual feel and flow of the abilities themselves).
As long as the other class refreshes match DK for both power and fun factor, I'm fine with DK keeping it's current power level as is, untouched. What would be a problem is if Warden and Sorcerer completely fall flat after their reworks, if that happens, then I'm all onboard with calling for adjustments to either DK or those 2 classes (and the other classes when they get refreshed) to equalize the power.
Until then though, I'm just enjoying this patch for what it is, a non-serious waiting room patch that is giving me the chance to play something different from the past 2 years, try out new builds/skills and try to find some combinations that function while we wait for more class refreshes to roll out to see if we will have a new baseline or if DK was an outlier.4 -
Vaqual✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think you guys are making this topic too difficult.
Is DK objectively stronger than any other pure class? - Yes.
Is it possible that the other class reworks all compare closely to DK? - Yes.
Is it possible that they messed this up and DK will be much more powerful than anything else that follows? - Yes.
Are we facing another wave of power creep if we continue on this level? - Yes
To me it seems that both sides are partially right. It is hard to contextualize something if you have only 1/7th of the information. But we can judge its performance by the current context and we can clearly see this will inevitably create new issues down the line. If sustain and burst continue in the same fashion as they are now for the "sustain-limited DoT-class" things will get nasty. If the trend doesn't follow this example, well then DK is just simply broken. Either way, something isn't right.Edited by Vaqual on March 18, 2026 1:16PM1 -
BardokRedSnow✭✭✭✭✭
✭.Oh nice, the next discussion of the same persons complaining about DKs. This time Cyrodiil not duelling or we still going on on duelling, where you are so good, which means, you are better at the game than anyone else too?
I don't need to be better at the game than anyone else. I just need to be good enough to see why pure DK is currently the best class in the game.
There is also a difference between disagreeing with me because you want all class reworks to roll out before making adjustments, and disagreeing because you think DK is not stronger than subclass. React Faster claimed that pure DK is currently the strongest spec in the history of ESO, and yet he disagrees with me on nerfing DK because he thinks it's a necessary evil and requires patience until all class reworks are completed, not because it's weaker. This I can agree with, but it doesn't necessarily mean I enjoy the current patch.
Meanwhile, you have openly stated that Molten Whip is not as good as Spectral Bow. This is clearly not the case from my experience in game, as well as many other good players. React Faster and Pelican are easily nuking large groups of players this patch on DK in Cyrodiil, which has never been achieved so effectively in previous patches on any class, not even Northern Storm Warden, etc.
How literally are we taking this? Because nothing comes even remotely close to what a cp 2000++ Nightblade could do during 1.6 era. When you show me a DK that can front bar gank, then swap to back bar 1vx duel-brawler, let me know lol.
Come to think of it, with the power-creep inflation when all class refreshes are finished, maybe we going full circle here.
Only gank? Bruh, a pure DK can currently BOMB and 1vX. Your NB example means nothing.
React’s clip:
https://youtu.be/LrHAqxmLR98?si=hMg6AsAlh1c6K6hj
Pelican’s clip:
https://youtu.be/n-Qwd3uYrVY?si=bsH3VtO5VMvNXeZZ
Tell me if your NB can do the same
Even with both of these out, aint many players out there moving like the likes of Pelican and React. The class is strong as hell yea, but most of the players rn are far from the top where the best players are and what they're capable of doing, especially DK vs DK.
What this update did is made the class strength ceiling higher for everyone playing it, which was what Zos has stated was their intention, so subclassing isn't mandatory but optional. Whether they do that or not remains to be seen, but the power of DK is indeed the whole point, and when Warden comes out and especially Sorc, Im sure Pelican will be dropping another video same as he did with the subclass meta which most of the sweats followed before everyone else, and same as then only a handful will actually be using said builds or equivalents at the same level.
A couple of people smashing more average players in cyrodiil isn't a problem its the norm. Always gonna be godly 1vXers, always gonna be farm groups. We shouldn't be nerfing whole classes for others just because React Slower makes a badass video on a build I and most others probably could not play even half as well.
For instance our convo about Inhale. Soul/Heart of Flame. The sustain to me is good, but not so good that I can play like pelican and 1vX other DK with no other sustain but inhale even with fat resource pools. I've tried it, with mixed results and Pelicans build, minus not being a Nord. For me, I was a lot more effective with orzogas over sugar skulls when outnumbered. So maybe the difference in our conversation is skill, who knows. He did say in the vid you can "make other races work" so for me maybe thats part of it.
But I know from watching and fighting others, that the average cyrodiil player or even IC enjoyer, even ones copying that very same build by pelican, are not playing like sweats at all and the most problematic thing in cyrodiil is still ballgroups that have exactly zero DK, so far anyway.
Especially since my first build for this patch was very similar to his, most people were already using rallying/mech so a lot of people were and still had to adjust later. Mainly because lol, pelican was also using rally and mech prior.2 -
xylena✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Now if HoangWave showed us clips of Pelican and React getting destroyed by random scrubs mashing 2 buttons on their DKs, it would be a different story.BardokRedSnow wrote: »Even with both of these out, aint many players out there moving like the likes of Pelican and React.
Good players winning is not a problem. One shotting is a problem whoever does it.PC/NA || Cyro/BGs || solo/smallscale || retired until Dagon brings a new dawn of PvP4 -
BXR_Lonestar✭✭✭✭✭
✭BXR_Lonestar wrote: »BXR_Lonestar wrote: »Returning PvP-Player here. Quit PvP after they announced subclassing, returned when I heard about the coming pure class buffs. But after playing with my magplar and getting absolutely nuked by dks, I don't even want to imagine how OP they will be with those buffs on top.
I don't think they'll be able to balance this game at this point. Just going to enjoy the other aspects of the game, PvP is just not fun anymore unless you play meta ig.
They're trying to tapdance around subclassing. They know subclassing is broken, but because there are some people who like it, they either lack the authority or the resolve to admit that subclassing was a mistake and to remove it (along with other mistakes like scribing and hybridization), and so the only way they can make pureclassing more attractive is if they make pureclassing broken-strong too. Because they're not nerfing what pure-classing is competing against, they're just trying to one-up it. So it was always going to be this way.
And it is just going to be like Destiny's revolving meta with the way they are going to keep releasing updates to pureclass - every class will get its day so to speak, and everyone will be playing those classes.
While I think the pure class updates are a great step in the right direction, I don't think they can fix this game while they continue to leave things they KNOW are a problem broken and still in the game. So I've dialed back how much I'm playing the game, and may end up focusing on other single player games or other ES Titles.
I'm with you on this. Reading between the lines on their actions IMO I think old leadership was chasing the Korean MMO trends of one toon to "do all the things" and current leadership is like... nah fam we are ESO... class identity has always been our bread and butter.
I do think they are trying to unwind it without going full removing it. Removing it IMO would be better long term for them but... I think they are in a delicate place ATM where it's hard to convince people in the boardroom that this is the direction we need to head.. so you end up in this middle area of... well lets rework classes and bring back some class identity.
I actually came back after a year off because of U49 and am having a blast. Yes, I'm a DK and PvP is filled with DKs but... we always do this dance right? Each update the meta gets shifted and people chase that new meta. Every game is like this... it's just a wave that comes and goes. Give it a few weeks or another update passes and things will settle.
I'm seeing a lot of non DK skills on my recap for what it is worth and some of these non DK builds hit like a friggin truck.
Those non-DK's that are hitting like a truck are either using some exploits that allow you to stack multiple mundus stones or multiple 5 piece sets (they do exist), or they're subclassed and using one of a tiny handful of builds that have disgusting burst, or both. There is so much busted/broken stuff in PVP right now with glitched shield tosses that will lock you down with no way to break free, to pulls using charm so there is zero defense to getting pulled (and hence, zero way to help your teammates survive). Its honestly driven me away from the game. This stuff is no longer fun to play.
And while I hear rumors of vengeance becoming a permanent server, I don't think that is the answer either because the last few rounds of vengeance have not been fun either. PVP right now just feels like if you're not cheesing it or if you aren't abusing some kind of exploit, your not being competitive, and that just isn't the way I play, so I'm basically just dialing back how much I play this game altogether. At some point they will be forced to start dialing back the power and addressing these issues, but until they do, I'm content to play elsewhere.
I play pure NB and can still hit hard like a truck. You don't need to subclass 2-3 damage skill lines to hit hard. Even without monomyth, just having null arca on is enough to do a stupid amount of damage to someone because your spammable is almost always going to be critting, and when your spammable lands at the same time null arca procs, you can bring someone from full to less than half hp instantly, to which spec bow or your execute would finish the job. I can even use order's wrath instead of null arca and achieve similar results. Not everyone who is hitting hard is cheating or using broken subclassed setups.
Pure NB is one of the very few classes capable of doing this though.
And I realize that not every average Joe is doing something unscrupulous when they destroy you with a good burst combo. I've played enough PVP to see what good comboing can do. The problem is when you run into the same group of guys and you steamroll them 3-4 times in a row, and then all of a sudden they can't be killed, they can barely be damaged, and then all of a sudden can burst you down with the same 2-3 hit combo that was hitting like a wet noodle just a half-hour before. When that happens, its really suspect.0 -
BXR_Lonestar✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think you guys are making this topic too difficult.
Is DK objectively stronger than any other pure class? - Yes.
Is it possible that the other class reworks all compare closely to DK? - Yes.
Is it possible that they messed this up and DK will be much more powerful than anything else that follows? - Yes.
Are we facing another wave of power creep if we continue on this level? - Yes
To me it seems that both sides are partially right. It is hard to contextualize something if you have only 1/7th of the information. But we can judge its performance by the current context and we can clearly see this will inevitably create new issues down the line. If sustain and burst continue in the same fashion as they are now for the "sustain-limited DoT-class" things will get nasty. If the trend doesn't follow this example, well then DK is just simply broken. Either way, something isn't right.
To me, DK isn't the problem.
The problem is subclassing. They're trying to make pure-class builds competitive with subclassing, but to do it, they need to be broken-strong too like subclassed builds. So they make a broken-strong DK. Other pure-class builds will also be broken-strong when they get reworked. Why? Because what they are competing with is broken-strong.
So essentially, they're making pure-class builds broken strong to compete with something else that is broken strong, when what they should have done in the first place is nerfed subclassing to bring it down to an acceptable baseline, and THEN reworked the classes so that the pureclasses didn't need to be broken too.
You can't fix ESO by ignoring what is broken. At some point, they will be forced to address it.
Until they do that, I'm just dialing back how much I actually play the game. I do think some things are going in the right direction, but we'd be kidding ourselves if we didn't take a look at the product today and say "this needs a LOT of work."2 -
Vaqual✭✭✭✭✭
✭BXR_Lonestar wrote: »I think you guys are making this topic too difficult.
Is DK objectively stronger than any other pure class? - Yes.
Is it possible that the other class reworks all compare closely to DK? - Yes.
Is it possible that they messed this up and DK will be much more powerful than anything else that follows? - Yes.
Are we facing another wave of power creep if we continue on this level? - Yes
To me it seems that both sides are partially right. It is hard to contextualize something if you have only 1/7th of the information. But we can judge its performance by the current context and we can clearly see this will inevitably create new issues down the line. If sustain and burst continue in the same fashion as they are now for the "sustain-limited DoT-class" things will get nasty. If the trend doesn't follow this example, well then DK is just simply broken. Either way, something isn't right.
To me, DK isn't the problem.
The problem is subclassing. They're trying to make pure-class builds competitive with subclassing, but to do it, they need to be broken-strong too like subclassed builds. So they make a broken-strong DK. Other pure-class builds will also be broken-strong when they get reworked. Why? Because what they are competing with is broken-strong.
So essentially, they're making pure-class builds broken strong to compete with something else that is broken strong, when what they should have done in the first place is nerfed subclassing to bring it down to an acceptable baseline, and THEN reworked the classes so that the pureclasses didn't need to be broken too.
You can't fix ESO by ignoring what is broken. At some point, they will be forced to address it.
Until they do that, I'm just dialing back how much I actually play the game. I do think some things are going in the right direction, but we'd be kidding ourselves if we didn't take a look at the product today and say "this needs a LOT of work."
I mostly agree, but replacing "broken" with "brokener" is how we got into every mess besides subclassing up to this point. The changes still need to meet some quality standards.0 -
Decimus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Good. Heinous subclass meta has been addressed.
Now we move onto the root cause of extreme tank/burst polarization: busted sets/stats.
Nuke Monomyth and I bet my account the meta is immediately less terrible. I have been saying this since the damn thing released on PTS (and it's even more insulting because it's P2W) but since it doesn't show up doing 15k on your death recap I guess let's nerf DK instead?
Nuke Vicious Death and noobs are no longer double punished just for being noobs.
How literally are we taking this? Because nothing comes even remotely close to what a cp 2000++ Nightblade could do during 1.6 era. When you show me a DK that can front bar gank, then swap to back bar 1vx duel-brawler, let me know lol.
Come to think of it, with the power-creep inflation when all class refreshes are finished, maybe we going full circle here.Urzigurumash wrote: »
That React video can be seen as an exhibit of the extreme multiplicative scaling of differences between other elements VD provides. Best player, best class, extreme gimmick set.
I see some comments about my video so ill just share some info here about that build & the class.
That build is using bloodspawn. It has 40k spell resist and 32k+ physical resist. It has 4k crit resist. It uses 3 defensive blue CP. It has infinite sustain, like i could not possibly ever run out, and I'm using less than 1k of both regens fully buffed.
In most of the clips in this video, id been kiting these groups of 5-10+ players around for minutes at a time. This isn't some glass cannon bomber that dies 90% of the time they send an attempt.
It has the damage to easily kill a properly built, 35k HP rallying cry player. Like, I can do 35k damage in one GCD to a player like that. While running VD frontbar.
Nothing in the history of the game has been capable of this level of damage with these stats. I'm using VD because big number funny, but you can accomplish similar results with acuity, any crit damage/chance set, or even a defensive set frontbar. That is how strong this class is. The sets are good sure, but they aren't what is enabling the power level. It is the reworked class.
Im having a blast anyways, I hope they bring every class up to this level. It would certainly be preferable to the subclassing slop we've had this past year.
Ok DK is in a really good spot right now, but let's not exaggerate things though...
You can absolutely not kill a properly built 35k health player in rallying cry in one global while having Vicious Death slotted. Not unless there's an improperly built player next to him.
A quick trip to Alik'r (or Stormhaven on NA I suppose) would prove this.
You still need to build around dueling/burst sets, and most of the fights between top players are still stalemates or take a long time at the very least.
If a one GCD burst happens, it is going to take sets like Kjalnar/Gorethief or Acuity combined with an opponent mistake (e.g. undodged Shattering Rocks during that window).Edited by Decimus on March 18, 2026 3:12PM0 -
React✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Good. Heinous subclass meta has been addressed.
Now we move onto the root cause of extreme tank/burst polarization: busted sets/stats.
Nuke Monomyth and I bet my account the meta is immediately less terrible. I have been saying this since the damn thing released on PTS (and it's even more insulting because it's P2W) but since it doesn't show up doing 15k on your death recap I guess let's nerf DK instead?
Nuke Vicious Death and noobs are no longer double punished just for being noobs.
How literally are we taking this? Because nothing comes even remotely close to what a cp 2000++ Nightblade could do during 1.6 era. When you show me a DK that can front bar gank, then swap to back bar 1vx duel-brawler, let me know lol.
Come to think of it, with the power-creep inflation when all class refreshes are finished, maybe we going full circle here.Urzigurumash wrote: »
That React video can be seen as an exhibit of the extreme multiplicative scaling of differences between other elements VD provides. Best player, best class, extreme gimmick set.
I see some comments about my video so ill just share some info here about that build & the class.
That build is using bloodspawn. It has 40k spell resist and 32k+ physical resist. It has 4k crit resist. It uses 3 defensive blue CP. It has infinite sustain, like i could not possibly ever run out, and I'm using less than 1k of both regens fully buffed.
In most of the clips in this video, id been kiting these groups of 5-10+ players around for minutes at a time. This isn't some glass cannon bomber that dies 90% of the time they send an attempt.
It has the damage to easily kill a properly built, 35k HP rallying cry player. Like, I can do 35k damage in one GCD to a player like that. While running VD frontbar.
Nothing in the history of the game has been capable of this level of damage with these stats. I'm using VD because big number funny, but you can accomplish similar results with acuity, any crit damage/chance set, or even a defensive set frontbar. That is how strong this class is. The sets are good sure, but they aren't what is enabling the power level. It is the reworked class.
Im having a blast anyways, I hope they bring every class up to this level. It would certainly be preferable to the subclassing slop we've had this past year.
Ok DK is in a really good spot right now, but let's not exaggerate things though...
You can absolutely not kill a properly built 35k health player in rallying cry in one global while having Vicious Death slotted. Not unless there's an improperly built player next to him.
A quick trip to Alik'r (or Stormhaven on NA I suppose) would prove this.
You still need to build around dueling/burst sets, and most of the fights between top players are still stalemates or take a long time at the very least.
If a one GCD burst happens, it is going to take sets like Kjalnar/Gorethief or Acuity combined with an opponent mistake (e.g. undodged Shattering Rocks during that window).
Untrue.
On these targets, I'm seeing;
5k+ hearts
5k+ incinerates
12k+ power lashes
2k+ molten armaments
4k+ shattering
3k+ corrosive ticks
2k+ light attacks
1k+ burning ticks
500+ bashes
Easily netting 35k potential in one GCD on these players. Those numbers can nearly double on some of the naked people in cyrodiil as well.@ReactSlower - PC/NA - 2000+ CP
React Faster - XB/NA - 1500+ CP
ContentTwitch.tv/reactfaster
Youtube.com/@ReactFaster3 -
FlameDark✭✭✭This whole DK being overpowered thing does not upset me at all. In fact, it makes me even more excited to see the updates to the other classes. I main a sorc, so im very interested in what sorc is going to look like now when it is its turn for the class update. Imagine how necro is finally going to look if they managed to blast DK up this high into playability.Edited by FlameDark on March 18, 2026 3:37PMPC/NA CP 900 - PvE
◆Arondael - Level 50 Magicka Necromancer ◆ Valyndrae (MAIN) - Level 50 Magicka Sorcerer ◆ Mithaedrun - Level 50 Stamina Arcanist
4 -
Decimus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Good. Heinous subclass meta has been addressed.
Now we move onto the root cause of extreme tank/burst polarization: busted sets/stats.
Nuke Monomyth and I bet my account the meta is immediately less terrible. I have been saying this since the damn thing released on PTS (and it's even more insulting because it's P2W) but since it doesn't show up doing 15k on your death recap I guess let's nerf DK instead?
Nuke Vicious Death and noobs are no longer double punished just for being noobs.
How literally are we taking this? Because nothing comes even remotely close to what a cp 2000++ Nightblade could do during 1.6 era. When you show me a DK that can front bar gank, then swap to back bar 1vx duel-brawler, let me know lol.
Come to think of it, with the power-creep inflation when all class refreshes are finished, maybe we going full circle here.Urzigurumash wrote: »
That React video can be seen as an exhibit of the extreme multiplicative scaling of differences between other elements VD provides. Best player, best class, extreme gimmick set.
I see some comments about my video so ill just share some info here about that build & the class.
That build is using bloodspawn. It has 40k spell resist and 32k+ physical resist. It has 4k crit resist. It uses 3 defensive blue CP. It has infinite sustain, like i could not possibly ever run out, and I'm using less than 1k of both regens fully buffed.
In most of the clips in this video, id been kiting these groups of 5-10+ players around for minutes at a time. This isn't some glass cannon bomber that dies 90% of the time they send an attempt.
It has the damage to easily kill a properly built, 35k HP rallying cry player. Like, I can do 35k damage in one GCD to a player like that. While running VD frontbar.
Nothing in the history of the game has been capable of this level of damage with these stats. I'm using VD because big number funny, but you can accomplish similar results with acuity, any crit damage/chance set, or even a defensive set frontbar. That is how strong this class is. The sets are good sure, but they aren't what is enabling the power level. It is the reworked class.
Im having a blast anyways, I hope they bring every class up to this level. It would certainly be preferable to the subclassing slop we've had this past year.
Ok DK is in a really good spot right now, but let's not exaggerate things though...
You can absolutely not kill a properly built 35k health player in rallying cry in one global while having Vicious Death slotted. Not unless there's an improperly built player next to him.
A quick trip to Alik'r (or Stormhaven on NA I suppose) would prove this.
You still need to build around dueling/burst sets, and most of the fights between top players are still stalemates or take a long time at the very least.
If a one GCD burst happens, it is going to take sets like Kjalnar/Gorethief or Acuity combined with an opponent mistake (e.g. undodged Shattering Rocks during that window).
Untrue.
On these targets, I'm seeing;
5k+ hearts
5k+ incinerates
12k+ power lashes
2k+ molten armaments
4k+ shattering
3k+ corrosive ticks
2k+ light attacks
1k+ burning ticks
500+ bashes
Easily netting 35k potential in one GCD on these players. Those numbers can nearly double on some of the naked people in cyrodiil as well.
That's all fine and all on paper, but it doesn't exactly check out in practice, here's why:
You're assuming crits on everything without acuity (astronomically small chance), Corrosive tick landing (5m radius, positional desyncs in actual fights), molten armaments being off cooldown (won't be 2k dmg, hits for less than the light attacks and burning ticks) and that the opponent doesn't have any heal over time or even health regen ticking.
In actuality killing properly built players requires them to be lower health to begin with, which indicates more than one global.
This is sometimes the case even on builds that further min-max the single target damage (khajiit, 7 divines, blind or encratis over bloodspawn etc, a 5p that does something on front in these situations like Gorethief etc) - you very often can have people surviving with all that added damage (like 30-40% more on that one global) even if you land your CC+delayed just because you get unlucky with crits... this is why you still have a lot of stalemate duels, even between people with much less health than the 35k.Edited by Decimus on March 18, 2026 4:03PM1 -
Estin✭✭✭✭✭
✭BXR_Lonestar wrote: »BXR_Lonestar wrote: »BXR_Lonestar wrote: »Returning PvP-Player here. Quit PvP after they announced subclassing, returned when I heard about the coming pure class buffs. But after playing with my magplar and getting absolutely nuked by dks, I don't even want to imagine how OP they will be with those buffs on top.
I don't think they'll be able to balance this game at this point. Just going to enjoy the other aspects of the game, PvP is just not fun anymore unless you play meta ig.
They're trying to tapdance around subclassing. They know subclassing is broken, but because there are some people who like it, they either lack the authority or the resolve to admit that subclassing was a mistake and to remove it (along with other mistakes like scribing and hybridization), and so the only way they can make pureclassing more attractive is if they make pureclassing broken-strong too. Because they're not nerfing what pure-classing is competing against, they're just trying to one-up it. So it was always going to be this way.
And it is just going to be like Destiny's revolving meta with the way they are going to keep releasing updates to pureclass - every class will get its day so to speak, and everyone will be playing those classes.
While I think the pure class updates are a great step in the right direction, I don't think they can fix this game while they continue to leave things they KNOW are a problem broken and still in the game. So I've dialed back how much I'm playing the game, and may end up focusing on other single player games or other ES Titles.
I'm with you on this. Reading between the lines on their actions IMO I think old leadership was chasing the Korean MMO trends of one toon to "do all the things" and current leadership is like... nah fam we are ESO... class identity has always been our bread and butter.
I do think they are trying to unwind it without going full removing it. Removing it IMO would be better long term for them but... I think they are in a delicate place ATM where it's hard to convince people in the boardroom that this is the direction we need to head.. so you end up in this middle area of... well lets rework classes and bring back some class identity.
I actually came back after a year off because of U49 and am having a blast. Yes, I'm a DK and PvP is filled with DKs but... we always do this dance right? Each update the meta gets shifted and people chase that new meta. Every game is like this... it's just a wave that comes and goes. Give it a few weeks or another update passes and things will settle.
I'm seeing a lot of non DK skills on my recap for what it is worth and some of these non DK builds hit like a friggin truck.
Those non-DK's that are hitting like a truck are either using some exploits that allow you to stack multiple mundus stones or multiple 5 piece sets (they do exist), or they're subclassed and using one of a tiny handful of builds that have disgusting burst, or both. There is so much busted/broken stuff in PVP right now with glitched shield tosses that will lock you down with no way to break free, to pulls using charm so there is zero defense to getting pulled (and hence, zero way to help your teammates survive). Its honestly driven me away from the game. This stuff is no longer fun to play.
And while I hear rumors of vengeance becoming a permanent server, I don't think that is the answer either because the last few rounds of vengeance have not been fun either. PVP right now just feels like if you're not cheesing it or if you aren't abusing some kind of exploit, your not being competitive, and that just isn't the way I play, so I'm basically just dialing back how much I play this game altogether. At some point they will be forced to start dialing back the power and addressing these issues, but until they do, I'm content to play elsewhere.
I play pure NB and can still hit hard like a truck. You don't need to subclass 2-3 damage skill lines to hit hard. Even without monomyth, just having null arca on is enough to do a stupid amount of damage to someone because your spammable is almost always going to be critting, and when your spammable lands at the same time null arca procs, you can bring someone from full to less than half hp instantly, to which spec bow or your execute would finish the job. I can even use order's wrath instead of null arca and achieve similar results. Not everyone who is hitting hard is cheating or using broken subclassed setups.
Pure NB is one of the very few classes capable of doing this though.
And I realize that not every average Joe is doing something unscrupulous when they destroy you with a good burst combo. I've played enough PVP to see what good comboing can do. The problem is when you run into the same group of guys and you steamroll them 3-4 times in a row, and then all of a sudden they can't be killed, they can barely be damaged, and then all of a sudden can burst you down with the same 2-3 hit combo that was hitting like a wet noodle just a half-hour before. When that happens, its really suspect.
You can honestly do well on every pure class except necro and arcanist. Will they struggle against a meta subclassed build? Usually, but skill does more than what a meta build provides, and those players can still easily die to someone who is skilled in their pure class.
When it comes to someone suddenly becoming invincible and strong, there needs to be more context. In BGs, it can because of many things such as the power ups or a pvp healer. Cyrodiil it can be because of the 20% healing buff near a keep plus a continuous assault buff. Those two do a lot. But if it's neither of those and the player hasn't changed their build and is without a healer, it could be something fishy. I know Xbox has a twice born star bug plaguing the game, as well as all platforms having a bug with the armory. Why those haven't been patched yet is beyond me, but the amount of people abusing bugs is pretty low.
Anyway, to not detract from the main topic, I do hope ZOS doesn't get cold feet and nerfs DK just because it's the strongest pure class in the game right now. Nerfing it, especially this early, would defeat the whole purpose of the class reworks. U50 is going to help decrease the power difference between dk and the rest of the classes until they can all be reworked. It's honestly not a long wait at all. I'll be severely disappointed and lose faith in the new leadership if they nerf dk to pre u49 levels. Any major balancing has to wait until every class is reworked. If they start trying to rebalance now, we will get into a situation where either each reworked class is only strong for one patch before becoming useless or it affects how they approach future reworks resulting in a flop because they played it too safe. The ideal situation would be for DK to keep it's current power, and then for warden to match it's power followed by the rest of the classes.1 -
Markytous✭✭✭✭
I'm absolutely resonating with this sentiment. Patiently waiting for Necromancer to come out of the shadows something fierce once their refresh drops. I've mained Nightblade for years and I have never denied how easy-street that the Nightblade has always had in the PVP department. My heart goes out to those who embrace the Necromancer to try and make it work out as more than an Ulti Bot. I'm not even excited about my main class. Give me Necromancer and Arcanist refreshes than really give them teeth in PVP! Dragonknight deserves to be the first to experience the glow-up, but the rest are not far behind. It will be worth the wait, I feel.This whole DK being overpowered thing does not upset me at all. In fact, it makes me even more excited to see the updates to the other classes. I main a sorc, so im very interested in what sorc is going to look like now when it is its turn for the class update. Imagine how necro is finally going to look if they managed to blast DK up this high into playability.2
