The "bald spots" on the Werewolf model make it look monstrous.

Erickson9610 · March 12

Syldras wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

A werewolf that's 90% wolf and 10% human just looks like a fluffy dog. That's not intimidating at all, even when it starts baring its fangs.
But a werewolf that's like 60% wolf and 40% human? Seeing the human in the beasts eyes reminds you that this isn't some animal. It's a monster with intelligence.

Now if it had human ears and a human nose, that would indeed be scary.

Well, yeah, but a human's ears and nose wouldn't be as good as a wolf's ears and nose for the purpose of hunting.

I suppose the same could be said about the fur.

coop500 · March 12

Erickson9610 wrote: »

A werewolf is not supposed to be a wolf. It's what happens when a human becomes more wolf-like — the muzzle, tail, claws, and so on are enough. It doesn't need fur all over its body, nor does it need to have wolf ears. At least some elements are wolf-like, but not all of the elements should be.

A werewolf that's 90% wolf and 10% human just looks like a fluffy dog. That's not intimidating at all, even when it starts baring its fangs.

But a werewolf that's like 60% wolf and 40% human? Seeing the human in the beast's eyes reminds you that this isn't some animal. It's a monster with intelligence.

Nobody is asking for it to be fully furred, and only a few are asking for strict wolf ears. I'd like wolf ears, but even something like the Skyrim ears would be an improvement over what we have.

There's a happy medium to be had here.

And wolves do not look like fluffy dogs, that's defo a you problem. If you don't think an aggressive, giant wolf on two legs snarling at you with giant claws is intimidating, then uhm.... yeeeah.

Syldras · March 12

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Well, yeah, but a human's ears and nose wouldn't be as good as a wolf's ears and nose for the purpose of hunting.

It has intelligence, it can use technology

dmel25 · March 12

Erickson9610 wrote: »

A werewolf is not supposed to be a wolf. It's what happens when a human becomes more wolf-like — the muzzle, tail, claws, and so on are enough. It doesn't need fur all over its body, nor does it need to have wolf ears. At least some elements are wolf-like, but not all of the elements should be.

A werewolf that's 90% wolf and 10% human just looks like a fluffy dog. That's not intimidating at all, even when it starts baring its fangs.

But a werewolf that's like 60% wolf and 40% human? Seeing the human in the beast's eyes reminds you that this isn't some animal. It's a monster with intelligence.

That's fair, but having it look like it is a mangy rat with a giant mohawk is objectively a terrible choice. If they wanted to go with the less fur option the Skyrim look was right there. Not whatever they gave us.

Ataskir · March 12

Erickson9610 wrote: »

But a werewolf that's like 60% wolf and 40% human? Seeing the human in the beast's eyes reminds you that this isn't some animal. It's a monster with intelligence.

I don’t think anyone really wants a funny bipedal dog as the werewolf model, it just needs more fur so it doesn’t look like Peryite blessed one of Hircine’s hunters.

I like the bones of what we’re seeing, it just needs some adjustments and better fur density. Also the ears could be less bat-like, though I do like pointed ears on werewolves.

Erickson9610 · March 12

Can we get some developer thoughts about some of these points being brought up, @ZOS_Erin?

Particularly, I'd like to hear the team's thoughts on:

Making the fur the same density, or at least making the "skin" the same color as the fur (this includes the pink, pale, and white skin colors depending on Skill Style used)
Making the mane less gnoll or hyena-like
Making the ears less elf-like, preferably more wolf-like
Making the model scale in size depending on your character's race, and making the model taller overall
Making the face more wolf-like

This is just a few of the points brought up in this thread. I see these same points being brought up both on these forums as well as on Reddit, and it's clear that most people do not like the proposed changes.

I realize that this is probably the last time the Werewolf model will ever be touched, so it's imperative that it's done right — especially if ESO has a major influence on the future of the Elder Scrolls franchise.

The last thing I want is for Werewolf players to stop playing because they hate the changes. The model should have mass appeal, so that people won't be turned away from ESO because of this model.

I'll also ping @ZOS_Kevin, @ZOS_GinaBruno, and @ZOS_JessicaFolsom for visibility.

Vulkunne · March 12

luckiestlycan wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

Yeah, hey ZOS. Until that happens to me it looks like you guys are just changing things many of us actually liked about this game, for some reason?

There is not a true Werewolf fan alive in the ESO community that has not been pleading for a Werewolf Remodel, Rework &/or Fur colour options for EONS!

Ofc you're entitled to your opinions, but me as a long time Werewolf fan can not wait for the Werewolf changes, and although I have my own opinions about the current W.I.P for Werewolf I would still take it in a heart beat over the current neglected creature we've been stuck with.

So, hey ZOS, keep up the work! They'll undoubtably be hiccups along the way, and there's gonna be no way to please everyone, but I appreciate that y'all are trying and I'm excited to see where this all ends up in the end.

Traditionally, I have used vamp bats more than anything else. Now at some point this shifted to a full vampire 'suite' I guess we could say. And so, I tried that, then they buffed WW and brought us the modern toolkit for WW. And I have found so many different uses for WW. I'm quite frankly impressed with the critter and concept. It's really taken center stage in my interest, for many reasons, including the weakness from Vampirism becoming notably problematic when playing against sub-meta damage. That said, I really enjoy running the dungeon where you can morph as a giant black wolf and so forth. I love it. So the truth of the matter, is I would love to see the model replaced with a scaled down version of that. And I'm not sorry for feeling that way about it. However, I know that will never happen. Alot of things with this game, will never happen.

And so, that's what I don't understand quite frankly. They already have a boss model, just scale it down, make it taller but not too tall that it becomes a collision liability and done. You know. I don't understand why they don't just use something like that. Because this thing, they're working on here really seems to pale in comparison. In my life and line of work, I try hard not to waste time or money, I do not re-invent the wheel cause it's a waste of time and you've proven nothing in doing so. I also don't want to get in the way of anyone's creativity or innovation but again, as I said on another post, its hard if not futile to improve upon perfection. Animations, some existing in-game assets are already premium quality. It does not make good business sense to waste the resource making a lesser product? How does this model outshine the much better and more realistic version of WW from the PvE example I gave earlier? Shouldn't that one be scaled down and used instead? I understand you've waited but you may have waited needlessly.

The solution has already been provided but they don't want to use it. I can't and would never force anyone to think my way, but I never got anywhere in life following people who walk in circles around a problem that already has a solution worked out. We should have moved on from this a long time ago. No one should have had to wait. It's what bugs me so much but not as much anymore because I know what to expect and I know what I've seen the community create for other Bethesda games.

And so, yeah I heard your criticism but I still would rather keep what works well enough rather than settle for less.

ZOS_Erin · March 12

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Can we get some developer thoughts about some of these points being brought up, @ZOS_Erin?

The team has been talking through all the feedback posted here on the forums, on Reddit, and on other social media platforms. There are a lot of differing opinions, so we are doing our best to figure out how to strike a balance that will appeal to the widest audience possible.

Iterating on models and textures takes some time, so we will provide more updates when we have them.

Erickson9610 · March 12

ZOS_Erin wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Can we get some developer thoughts about some of these points being brought up, @ZOS_Erin?

The team has been talking through all the feedback posted here on the forums, on Reddit, and on other social media platforms. There are a lot of differing opinions, so we are doing our best to figure out how to strike a balance that will appeal to the widest audience possible.

Iterating on models and textures takes some time, so we will provide more updates when we have them.

Thanks for the update! I would also highly recommend looking at the feedback in this Reddit thread I made over on r/werewolves. Although this isn't directly related to The Elder Scrolls Online, this does have what I would consider to be one of the target demographics for this rework:

https://www.reddit.com/r/werewolves/comments/1rqwjcl/what_do_you_think_of_the_new_werewolf_model/

It would be good to get more werewolf fans starting or returning to ESO!

karthrag_inak · March 12

ZOS_Erin wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Can we get some developer thoughts about some of these points being brought up, @ZOS_Erin?

The team has been talking through all the feedback posted here on the forums, on Reddit, and on other social media platforms. There are a lot of differing opinions, so we are doing our best to figure out how to strike a balance that will appeal to the widest audience possible.

Iterating on models and textures takes some time, so we will provide more updates when we have them.

Just make sure khajiit's hair can be perfect, when you are finished. Please.

coop500 · March 12

ZOS_Erin wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Can we get some developer thoughts about some of these points being brought up, @ZOS_Erin?

The team has been talking through all the feedback posted here on the forums, on Reddit, and on other social media platforms. There are a lot of differing opinions, so we are doing our best to figure out how to strike a balance that will appeal to the widest audience possible.

Iterating on models and textures takes some time, so we will provide more updates when we have them.

I'd greatly at least appreciate if whether it may be possible for the devs to consider making the player scaling/overall size larger? Regardless of model changes themselves?

Currently, this is what the live Player Werewolf's height is.

That same character actively shrinks when he transforms, as this is how big he actually is.

Using the troll polymorph, I tried to show how big players can regularly be without any gameplay issues, both normal standing and using the Beast personality to reflect a similar hunched over effect that werewolves would have.

If player werewolves could be this height, that'd make the power fantasy of playing a werewolf much more immersive.

coop500 · March 12

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Can we get some developer thoughts about some of these points being brought up, @ZOS_Erin?

Particularly, I'd like to hear the team's thoughts on:
Making the fur the same density, or at least making the "skin" the same color as the fur (this includes the pink, pale, and white skin colors depending on Skill Style used)

Making the mane less gnoll or hyena-like

Making the ears less elf-like, preferably more wolf-like

Making the model scale in size depending on your character's race, and making the model taller overall

Making the face more wolf-like

This is just a few of the points brought up in this thread. I see these same points being brought up both on these forums as well as on Reddit, and it's clear that most people do not like the proposed changes.

I realize that this is probably the last time the Werewolf model will ever be touched, so it's imperative that it's done right — especially if ESO has a major influence on the future of the Elder Scrolls franchise.

The last thing I want is for Werewolf players to stop playing because they hate the changes. The model should have mass appeal, so that people won't be turned away from ESO because of this model.

I'll also ping @ZOS_Kevin, @ZOS_GinaBruno, and @ZOS_JessicaFolsom for visibility.

Thank you very much for this rundown, truly. I think it's important to keep our requests into a short list like this, in which the community can unite behind and provide consistent feedback for. And I personally stand behind all those purposed in that list.

Vulkunne · March 12

coop500 wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Can we get some developer thoughts about some of these points being brought up, @ZOS_Erin?

Particularly, I'd like to hear the team's thoughts on:
Making the fur the same density, or at least making the "skin" the same color as the fur (this includes the pink, pale, and white skin colors depending on Skill Style used)

Making the mane less gnoll or hyena-like

Making the ears less elf-like, preferably more wolf-like

Making the model scale in size depending on your character's race, and making the model taller overall

Making the face more wolf-like

This is just a few of the points brought up in this thread. I see these same points being brought up both on these forums as well as on Reddit, and it's clear that most people do not like the proposed changes.

I realize that this is probably the last time the Werewolf model will ever be touched, so it's imperative that it's done right — especially if ESO has a major influence on the future of the Elder Scrolls franchise.

The last thing I want is for Werewolf players to stop playing because they hate the changes. The model should have mass appeal, so that people won't be turned away from ESO because of this model.

I'll also ping @ZOS_Kevin, @ZOS_GinaBruno, and @ZOS_JessicaFolsom for visibility.

Thank you very much for this rundown, truly. I think it's important to keep our requests into a short list like this, in which the community can unite behind and provide consistent feedback for. And I personally stand behind all those purposed in that list.

There's already some limited racial scaling built in so that's certainly possible. I think we need to pencil in:

6. Make the WW more massive and buffed, but not like Vampire buffed. The Vamp model looks kind of wirey and more reptilian in appearance, so my advice would be to keep with the Grayhost WW, Stone Garden WW and March of Sacrifice final boss so the appearance is not giant or gargantuan, nothing silly like that which might cause collision, but make it noticeably buffed and strongly appointed. Again, like what you guys already have in game but scaled down some, surely.

7. Use Earth-toned Color Textures for the Black and White wolves. In other words, be careful the Pack Leader isn't so white it burns the retina's

And the shade of black you're currently using is just fine. But just use a like a white with some gray mixed in so it's neither 'glowing' or 'reflecting' too much, it just is an earthy dirty-white texture without being too bright or too gray. Yeah.

8. The WWs in current form, the texture also looks grainy and looks like it was painted on. It's an old skin-tight texture with no substance. Not trying to be mean, but there are more than a few old motifs that have the same issue and it's like the texture is painted on the skin, not like something worn over the skin as it should be. Your 'newer' boss WWs do not have this problem.

Cause that's the one thing about your existing model is the poor thing is too wirey and looks too much like a man in form who has a severe allergic skin condition. I would strongly encourage moving away from that thinking for the Werewolf.

9.? Another thing, somewhat unrelated, WW needs umm 'CC Immunity'. Why is that? Because my WW experience in PvP is I say, "Ok we got badies pouring thru the gate, I'm go beast mode and drop in there and I'm gonna handle this." But what actually happens? As soon as they see me shift to WW, I get CC'd, I start taking MASSIVE DAMAGE, while still CC'd, and so after CC assuming I live, the only thinkg I can do is spend all my energy trying in vain to Heal, STILL unable to move and death. That's my WW PvP experience. So yes. I went into WW form and nothing was accomplished. Happens constantly. CC Immunity please.

Vaqual · March 12

U50: Werewolves now have a permanent 5% debuff to all stats, due to the emotionally devastating consequences of failing to meet modern beauty standards.

Mottlewing · March 12

I tried adding a little more floof around the head, neck and shoulders along with giving them pointier ears. Personally I wouldn't mind more fur on the rest of the body too but I'm quite fond of this direction. I main all kinds of werewolf builds so I'm so excited and a little anxious to see what happens.

Techwolf_Lupindo · March 13

Celas_Dranacea wrote: »

Also just for the sake of discussion this is the shape of a wolf’s ear - not saying we got to have an exact wolf ear but maybe there’s a happy medium between this ear and the much longer seeming, pointy bat like ear

This is a good pic as to why the artist made the mistake of curving the ears forward. This photo show the wolf ears rotated forward. Many wolf pis show this due to wolf to look toward the sound, camera, and will rotate the ears forward. When the ears are not rotated forward or backwards, they are not curved forward or backwards like a bat or other species.

Good furry/werewolf artists will use many reference pics to ensure they don't make perspective mistakes. Like making wolf ears look like bat ears due to perspective of the pic taken.

dmel25 · March 13

Mottlewing wrote: »

I tried adding a little more floof around the head, neck and shoulders along with giving them pointier ears. Personally I wouldn't mind more fur on the rest of the body too but I'm quite fond of this direction. I main all kinds of werewolf builds so I'm so excited and a little anxious to see what happens.

This right here. This is what the WIP for the new model should have looked like. Your edits are fantastic!

Erickson9610 · March 13

Mottlewing wrote: »

I tried adding a little more floof around the head, neck and shoulders along with giving them pointier ears. Personally I wouldn't mind more fur on the rest of the body too but I'm quite fond of this direction. I main all kinds of werewolf builds so I'm so excited and a little anxious to see what happens.

I like your edit! This solves the "hyena/gnoll" look.

coop500 · March 13

Mottlewing wrote: »

I tried adding a little more floof around the head, neck and shoulders along with giving them pointier ears. Personally I wouldn't mind more fur on the rest of the body too but I'm quite fond of this direction. I main all kinds of werewolf builds so I'm so excited and a little anxious to see what happens.

That's a really good mockup! I agree with you about wanting more fur on the rest of the body, for me especially the chest, I'd like both male and female werewolves to have a furred chest, following a human male body hair pattern.

I'd also like the arms and legs to be longer and beefier, that lanky yet muscular look helps add to that beastly feel.

Beyond those two things, what you got here is a huge improvement that feels realistically achievable. I could defo ask for more, but I know we're limited on what we can ask, as I doubt the devs would be willing nor able to change TOO much about it.

Malyore · March 13

Mottlewing wrote: »

I tried adding a little more floof around the head, neck and shoulders along with giving them pointier ears. Personally I wouldn't mind more fur on the rest of the body too but I'm quite fond of this direction. I main all kinds of werewolf builds so I'm so excited and a little anxious to see what happens.

I also like this rendition. Especially the way the fur wraps around the face.

coop500 · March 13

Yeah the fur around the face is a great touch and kinda brings in more of a wolf feel.

Enemoriana · March 13

Mottlewing wrote: »

I tried adding a little more floof around the head, neck and shoulders along with giving them pointier ears. Personally I wouldn't mind more fur on the rest of the body too but I'm quite fond of this direction. I main all kinds of werewolf builds so I'm so excited and a little anxious to see what happens.

Yes, that's much better and doesn't look so sickly.

I'd prefer, though, even a bit more changes.

More fur on face, arms covered with short fur, knees textured as fur, belly colored closer to fur. A bit more fur on lower part of back. And wider and moved a bit higher and forward ears, something in between human and wolf position, and also more fur-colored. There is reason active predators has top-and-forward ears, not on sides!

coop500 · March 13

Enemoriana wrote: »

Mottlewing wrote: »

I tried adding a little more floof around the head, neck and shoulders along with giving them pointier ears. Personally I wouldn't mind more fur on the rest of the body too but I'm quite fond of this direction. I main all kinds of werewolf builds so I'm so excited and a little anxious to see what happens.

Yes, that's much better and doesn't look so sickly.

I'd prefer, though, even a bit more changes.

More fur on face, arms covered with short fur, knees textured as fur, belly colored closer to fur. A bit more fur on lower part of back. And wider and moved a bit higher and forward ears, something in between human and wolf position, and also more fur-colored. There is reason active predators has top-and-forward ears, not on sides!

AHHH This is incredible! Those ears are SPLENDID, I want this, can we have this, pretty please devs?!
And bless you for mentioning ear position, this is a good middle ground that adheres to logic, as predators such as wolves rotate and pivot their ears to focus on different noises and such, and even communicate. Werewolves are also pack creatures in ESO, so this would make sense.

And thank you for putting fur ON the ears too. And further up around the face.

Mottlewing · March 13

I'm really liking the fur on the ears too. I was going for more of an elongated humanoid ear but now I'm thinking about it meby it's best to lean into the wolf side since argonians and khajiit are going to be awooing too. It's getting late here now but I thought I'd have a better go at the face with the front view. I've widened the head a little, cheek floofed, added more of the back floof and lightened the fur on the front while bringing it up to the shoulders a little more.

Honestly I'm mostly having fun with it now and I know it's alot but you guys were really nice about my last attempt so I'll share it. If any devs see this feel free to pick and choose whatever you like I know I changed alot

tomofhyrule · March 13

Enemoriana wrote: »

Mottlewing wrote: »

I tried adding a little more floof around the head, neck and shoulders along with giving them pointier ears. Personally I wouldn't mind more fur on the rest of the body too but I'm quite fond of this direction. I main all kinds of werewolf builds so I'm so excited and a little anxious to see what happens.

Yes, that's much better and doesn't look so sickly.

I'd prefer, though, even a bit more changes.

More fur on face, arms covered with short fur, knees textured as fur, belly colored closer to fur. A bit more fur on lower part of back. And wider and moved a bit higher and forward ears, something in between human and wolf position, and also more fur-colored. There is reason active predators has top-and-forward ears, not on sides!

Ooh, I like the furrier face so much more.

I realize it's a bit late in the game since the PTS is probably dropping in less than a month, but I'd love if the art team could take some time to give the wolvers a bit of rogaine or something.

coop500 · March 13

I am loving all of these mockups, I truly hope the devs might give us something like this.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · March 13

The face of the WW in the new design just looks so bad to me, looks more like a bat monster not really 'wolf like',
but hopefully the players who actually play WW like it.

coop500 · March 13

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

The face of the WW in the new design just looks so bad to me, looks more like a bat monster not really 'wolf like',
but hopefully the players who actually play WW like it.

What's your thoughts on the mockups people have been putting up in the 4th page?

Erickson9610 · March 13

Mottlewing wrote: »

I'm really liking the fur on the ears too. I was going for more of an elongated humanoid ear but now I'm thinking about it meby it's best to lean into the wolf side since argonians and khajiit are going to be awooing too. It's getting late here now but I thought I'd have a better go at the face with the front view. I've widened the head a little, cheek floofed, added more of the back floof and lightened the fur on the front while bringing it up to the shoulders a little more.

Honestly I'm mostly having fun with it now and I know it's alot but you guys were really nice about my last attempt so I'll share it. If any devs see this feel free to pick and choose whatever you like I know I changed alot

I like your mockup of the front view! I really hope ZOS sees these mockups and adjusts the planned design to be closer to them.

Emeratis · March 13

I was going to once I was less busy this week try to paintover too but y'all beat me too it. I like @Enemoriana's the most but these look like a way better direction for the new model.