DK now the broken meta in PvP

Urzigurumash · March 12

On the No CP side, unlike the DK Metas of the past, Ranged Damage is so strong right now I'm not even sure this will prove to be a Pure DK Meta. For Melee, yes absolutely, it's off the hook, but overall? I'm not so sure.

Will Ranged Gankers cure Stage 4, TBD ? I did on mine and I didnt like it, better to eat the insane whips than lose the mobility. From the DK side, ranged Sorc/Plar/NB shreds me harder than... ever probably?

If you're in a DK's melee range, you're toast, if you're not, they are - unlike the past. (so far)

Valentyne · March 12

Don't want to get hit with 15k whips? The meta has been crit stacking for probably a year now. Everyone should be stacking crit resist, anything under 3k you're going to get hit hard. Crit resist > physical/spell resistances. Run at least 5 impen traits, rally and even the crit resist CP.

I run syvarra/rally/roksa on my dk with full dmg, buff to almost 6700 wpn/spell dmg, have around 17k pen after major/minor breach proc from skills, 32k res without monomyth, 3k mag recovery/ 2k stam recovery with a rss buff/tri stat pot active, and around 3300 crit resist with rally active. This is also just soloing and I still have 36k hp. Highest whip I've hit since DK rework is 21k and it was in the middle of a corrosive.

I don't think the DK is overpowered considering what you can do with subclassing still, I think the real issue is people coming on here who go "I run 2 defensive sets, 7 heavy, and have max physical/spell resistance and X is hitting me for so much please nerf it so I don't have to try and get better" when yeah it's obviously going to sleep you when a DK pops corrosive and goes right through all of your resistances lol.

Personally going to enjoy the DK meta since it means less warden charm spammers and more raging tanks that won't be able to survive the dot stacking.

hoangdz · March 12

Valentyne wrote: »

Don't want to get hit with 15k whips? The meta has been crit stacking for probably a year now. Everyone should be stacking crit resist, anything under 3k you're going to get hit hard. Crit resist > physical/spell resistances. Run at least 5 impen traits, rally and even the crit resist CP.

I run syvarra/rally/roksa on my dk with full dmg, buff to almost 6700 wpn/spell dmg, have around 17k pen after major/minor breach proc from skills, 32k res without monomyth, 3k mag recovery/ 2k stam recovery with a rss buff/tri stat pot active, and around 3300 crit resist with rally active. This is also just soloing and I still have 36k hp. Highest whip I've hit since DK rework is 21k and it was in the middle of a corrosive.

I don't think the DK is overpowered considering what you can do with subclassing still, I think the real issue is people coming on here who go "I run 2 defensive sets, 7 heavy, and have max physical/spell resistance and X is hitting me for so much please nerf it so I don't have to try and get better" when yeah it's obviously going to sleep you when a DK pops corrosive and goes right through all of your resistances lol.

Huh? You do realize that DK is straight up nuking through mitigation right now right? You do realize that Pure DK is also nuking people while in 3 defensive sets? I have been doing that all night on my DK. Talk about subclassing being an issue while pure DK is mopping the floor with them lmao.

I'm literally playing pure DK right now, so my PoV is coming from playing the actual class. This class is deadass easy to play, almost a snoozefest honestly.

hoangdz · March 12

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

All of these examples never take into consideration actually using the skill in a fight, especially out in cyrodiil. Lava like your previous example doesn't stun, immobilize or knock back etc. Its just a dot. And you could do that before heart/soul of flame.

What do you mean never used in a fight? I have been dueling on my DK all night, while using Health/Spell Resist/Physical Resist potions and sitting at 600 mag recovery and 900 stam recovery fully buffed. Inhale alone is providing enough sustain for me to drop Tripots completely and remove almost all sources of stamina/magicka recovery.

I asked you to fight me in game to prove you wrong. You avoided. That sounds like you don't want to be proven wrong to me, right? It's a really simple test lmao.

xylena · March 12

hoangdz wrote: »

I have been dueling on my DK all night

How's it going against optimized dueling builds?

My dot DK can beat unoptimized Storm Calling builds too, and has been able to this whole time. When you're 1v1 stomping good players who play Assassin/Restoring/X let me know.

hoangdz · March 12

xylena wrote: »

hoangdz wrote: »

I have been dueling on my DK all night

How's it going against optimized dueling builds?

My dot DK can beat unoptimized Storm Calling builds too, and has been able to this whole time. When you're 1v1 stomping good players who play Assassin/Restoring/X let me know.

Xylena, the last time we saw each other on PTS, you tried to fight me using your highest DPS build and it barely crossed 3.5k DPS. You can't possibly tell me that I'm not stomping good players who play Assassin/Restoring/X. I regularly fight people who do 4k-5k+ DPS in Stormhaven. Pure DK is farming optimized subclassed builds right now. Come to Stormhaven, I'm always there, along with good players.

xylena · March 12

hoangdz wrote: »

you tried to fight me using your highest DPS build and it barely crossed 3.5k DPS. You can't possibly tell me that I'm not stomping good players who play Assassin/Restoring/X

Your last CMX was against a "good" opponent doing... 3.2k dps lol

You haven't even given an anecdote of any other matchups

So yes I can

If you're gonna use dueling as a metric, let's see your DK against top tournament duelers, not my open world dot DK, not open world Storm Calling builds that barely enable Surge.

hoangdz · March 12

xylena wrote: »

hoangdz wrote: »

you tried to fight me using your highest DPS build and it barely crossed 3.5k DPS. You can't possibly tell me that I'm not stomping good players who play Assassin/Restoring/X

Your only CMX was against a "good" opponent doing... 3.5k dps lol

You haven't even given an anecdote of any other matchups

So yes I can

I'm talking about you. When we were both on PTS trying subclass builds, and you wanted to test your build vs mine. You did 3.5k DPS. I regularly fight people who do 4k-5k DPS. Since your previous comment implied that I don't fight good opponents, I am asking you to come to Stormhaven where all the sweaty duelers are. Feel free to use the meta Assassination/Restoring/X build. There are a lot of good DKs there who will be happy to fight you. If you can consistently beat most of them, then I will take back my statement.

L_Nici · March 12

Duelling was never a good indication of skill. Someone who insists on being good, because they can win duels, in my experience are just full of themselves.
In Duells Matchups win, specific chosen Setups, not the player.

For example a Gankblade can't easily win a duell, not because Nightblades are underpowered, or the player of it bad, but because the opponent knows he is being attacked. That goes completely against the thing the Ganker is very good at: Surprising and bursting down a target.

Its a bit like PvE people comparing absolutely unrealistic numbers on a Raiddummy, and then say look I have 150k DPS, I am sooo much better than you. Then you go into a dungeon, an actual field test and they suck.

Also a DK could always nuke through mitigation. Corrosive armor exists since many, many years.

Major_Mangle · March 12

L_Nici wrote: »

Duelling was never a good indication of skill. Someone who insists on being good, because they can win duels, in my experience is just full of themselves.
In Duells Matchups win, specific chosen Setups, not the player.

For example a Gankblade can't easily win a duell, not because Nightblades are underpowered, or the player of it bad, but because the opponent knows he is being attacked. That goes completely against the thing the Ganker is very good at: Surprising and bursting down a target.

Also a DK could always nuke through mitigation. Corrosive armor exists since many, many years.

In ESO making a proper setup for the occasion is equal to skill tho and always has been. The "mechanical" skill ceiling (aka pressing the right buttons) in ESO is not very high compared to a lot of other games, so the area where skill/knowledge gets to shine is in how to make a proper build.
Sure, "mechanical skill" still matters, but not as much as people want to believe it does in ESO.

While dueling wins/losses requires context to be useful I do find it to be a better measurement of skill compared to 1vX (which is literally just based on you finding incredible inexperienced players to fight) or large scale zerg surfing etc etc

xylena · March 12

hoangdz wrote: »

I'm talking about you. When we were both on PTS trying subclass builds, and you wanted to test your build vs mine. You did 3.5k DPS.

So if you were on the PTS then you would have fought better duelers than me.

Those players were running Assassin/Restoring/X or Aedric/Restoring/X.

My C-Tier dot builds aren't proving anything in this meta, win or lose.

If you want to prove that DK is broken then stomp S-Tier duelers on S-Tier builds.

L_Nici · March 12

Major_Mangle wrote: »

L_Nici wrote: »

Duelling was never a good indication of skill. Someone who insists on being good, because they can win duels, in my experience is just full of themselves.
In Duells Matchups win, specific chosen Setups, not the player.

For example a Gankblade can't easily win a duell, not because Nightblades are underpowered, or the player of it bad, but because the opponent knows he is being attacked. That goes completely against the thing the Ganker is very good at: Surprising and bursting down a target.

Also a DK could always nuke through mitigation. Corrosive armor exists since many, many years.

In ESO making a proper setup for the occasion is equal to skill tho and always has been. The "mechanical" skill ceiling (aka pressing the right buttons) in ESO is not very high compared to a lot of other games, so the area where skill/knowledge gets to shine is in how to make a proper build.
Sure, "mechanical skill" still matters, but not as much as people want to believe it does in ESO.

While dueling wins/losses requires context to be useful I do find it to be a better measurement of skill compared to 1vX (which is literally just based on you finding incredible inexperienced players to fight) or large scale zerg surfing etc etc

I agree on that, but it works both ways. If you are great at dueling that only means that you are great at duelling, not great at the game overall. Like if you say, you are great on a raid dummy, that only means that you are great on a raid dummy, not that you are also good at actual Raids.

Vaqual · March 12

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Vaqual wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

All of these examples never take into consideration actually using the skill in a fight, especially out in cyrodiil. Lava like your previous example doesn't stun, immobilize or knock back etc. Its just a dot. And you could do that before heart/soul of flame.

That is plainly to illustrate that this ability is numerically out of whack. Of course you can easily and sustainably stand in lava with a HoT or two and a bit of sustain. But with this ability you don't need either of those things.

With 20k resources missing this ability provides an equivalent of 6k recoveries (3k per second if spammed) while paying for itself, conveniently keeping the Stam pool bolstered for dodge-casting the hell out of it. "Oh but in a fight someone stuns you and hits you back and so..." - Yes, that same thing happens to literally everyone else too.
Sustain is an afterthought with this. You couldn't run dry if you tried. You don't have to admit that I am right, because I know that I am. And these resource pools aren't even reaching "heavy abuse" range. This is not good for the game.

#NumbersMatter or so

Okie buddy, well be sure to save that and send it to zos in 3 years when the other refreshes are done lol. In the meantime, buckle in and enjoy the ride.

Fair enough, I am using it anyway.

Vulsahdaal · March 12

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Vulsahdaal wrote: »

Elendildur wrote: »

Vulsahdaal wrote: »

As a PvP DK Im on right now, I havent even got a chance to try Whip yet. Im just confused that Spiked Armor is gone. Not a name change, because I checked everything and nothing like it (that adds to resistance) even exists anymore and where it was on my bar is now just an empty slot. Why is this?

If whip is as bad as you say, well at least thats something, but Id rather it remain as it was before if I could get my hardened armor back.

It has been renamed to Earthspike Mantle, and moved to Earthern Heart

Seriously? Why would they move it to a completely different section??

Well at least that explains why I cant find it, I had to give up my Earthen Heart (and wasnt happy about it) for Sorc Dark Magic and unfortunately can not switch back

Thanks for letting me know, I guess Ill have to see if Im able to scribe something similar.

Its was a bad move to change skills to different section, they couldnt foresee that with subclassing, some people would lose access to it?

That was the point.

It was (and is, for the other classes) far too easy to just drop certain lines and replace them with others when all of the useful skills were in one or 2 lines. Now that the useful skills are spread out between skill lines, it becomes harder to subclass.

Subclassing shouldn't just be better by default, it should be a choice you make with pros and cons. Switching around skills did exactly that. You can't drop a DK line as easily anymore without considering what you're losing and replacing it with.

It wasn’t easy, and I already considered what I was losing and replacing it with when I originally subclassed. I gave up a skill line that I was using for one that I have no skills or passives slotted, just for the ultimate. If DK had something similar to negate Id gladly go back to pure class, but even in the re-work of DK, there is still nothing even close to negate there.

Now, I have to figure out how to go back to pure class, then give up Ardent Flame in order to put Sorc Dark Magic in that slot. Does anyone know if I have to level Dark magic again or because I levelled it once, does it remain that way?

SandandStars · March 12

Now watch me whip (kill it)
Now watch me nae nae (okay)
Now watch me whip, whip
Watch me nae nae (watch me do it)
Now watch me whip (kill it)
Watch me nae nae (okay)
Now watch me whip, whip
Watch me nae nae (can you do it?)

rlindsey912nub18_ESO · March 12

The problem isn’t that dks are strong it’s the time it’s going to take to make other classes able to compete which is the problem and nobody and I mean nobody wants to wait years just to play there favorite class in this dumpster juice of balance zos created with subclasses

Vraedlich · March 12

*Everyone starts playing DK to test the new changes*

"Why is it everyone who kills me in PVP is now a DK? Can this possibly be a coincidence?"

Oblivion_Protocol · March 13

For the last year, people have been SCREAMING for pure class builds to be on par with subclassing. Well, here it is. DK is about on the level with all of the Animal Companion/Assassination/Storm Calling cheese, and suddenly people can’t handle it.

I swear, some of you people complaining about 15k whips will turn around, hit someone with a 20k Spec Bow, and answer complaints about it with “get gud”.

SneaK · March 13

rlindsey912nub18_ESO wrote: »

The problem isn’t that dks are strong it’s the time it’s going to take to make other classes able to compete which is the problem and nobody and I mean nobody wants to wait years just to play there favorite class in this dumpster juice of balance zos created with subclasses

It’s a necessary evil. It’s the first step of what, 8 steps needed, to be able to compete with the multi meta we got shoved down our throats. If we had to wait two more years for them to rollout sweeping changes to class balancing and living in the mutt meta, population would tank even worse. This was literally the only way, and likely what saves ESO.

BardokRedSnow · March 13

hoangdz wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

All of these examples never take into consideration actually using the skill in a fight, especially out in cyrodiil. Lava like your previous example doesn't stun, immobilize or knock back etc. Its just a dot. And you could do that before heart/soul of flame.

What do you mean never used in a fight? I have been dueling on my DK all night, while using Health/Spell Resist/Physical Resist potions and sitting at 600 mag recovery and 900 stam recovery fully buffed. Inhale alone is providing enough sustain for me to drop Tripots completely and remove almost all sources of stamina/magicka recovery.

I asked you to fight me in game to prove you wrong. You avoided. That sounds like you don't want to be proven wrong to me, right? It's a really simple test lmao.

I ignored you because you're obsessed with me, and its annoying. You found me in game lol and mentioned me in zone chat. Why would I give you a duel when this is eating you up so much, more entertaining. You wanting to duel me over a forum debate is cringe, I have nothing to prove, my opinion is you're over exaggerating the potency of this skill, and you cant stand someone suggesting your opinion is incorrect.

Besides that, 1v1 is not cyrodiil. Most of the fights you're outnumbered, and outnumbered that skill is not doing what you're suggesting.

If I beat you, it wouldn't prove or disprove anything and vice versa. In an actual cyrodiil scenario when you're getting piled on this skill isn't at all overperforming like you suggest, and, people are dying to players not using this skill at all, namely the storm calling dks mopping the floor with pure dks rn. Of all the things to worry about, DK getting one adequate sustain skill is far from the most concerning thing.

Considering there's not a single game mode designed around 1v1, and we dont know the potency of the next classes to be reworked, what your opinion is of the skill 1v1 is irrelevant to me.

hoangdz · March 13

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

hoangdz wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

All of these examples never take into consideration actually using the skill in a fight, especially out in cyrodiil. Lava like your previous example doesn't stun, immobilize or knock back etc. Its just a dot. And you could do that before heart/soul of flame.

What do you mean never used in a fight? I have been dueling on my DK all night, while using Health/Spell Resist/Physical Resist potions and sitting at 600 mag recovery and 900 stam recovery fully buffed. Inhale alone is providing enough sustain for me to drop Tripots completely and remove almost all sources of stamina/magicka recovery.

I asked you to fight me in game to prove you wrong. You avoided. That sounds like you don't want to be proven wrong to me, right? It's a really simple test lmao.

I ignored you because you're obsessed with me, and its annoying. You found me in game lol and mentioned me in zone chat. Why would I give you a duel when this is eating you up so much, more entertaining. You wanting to duel me over a forum debate is cringe, I have nothing to prove, my opinion is you're over exaggerating the potency of this skill, and you cant stand someone suggesting your opinion is incorrect.

Besides that, 1v1 is not cyrodiil. Most of the fights you're outnumbered, and outnumbered that skill is not doing what you're suggesting.

If I beat you, it wouldn't prove or disprove anything and vice versa. In an actual cyrodiil scenario when you're getting piled on this skill isn't at all overperforming like you suggest, and, people are dying to players not using this skill at all, namely the storm calling dks mopping the floor with pure dks rn. Of all the things to worry about, DK getting one adequate sustain skill is far from the most concerning thing.

Considering there's not a single game mode designed around 1v1, and we dont know the potency of the next classes to be reworked, what your opinion is of the skill 1v1 is irrelevant to me.

Obsessed with you? Lmao you think too highly of yourself. I only recognized your name by accident when 1vXing because you kept commenting in my nerf Inhale thread.

Besides, you keep trying to refute my point every time I make a comment, always talking about how I never used the skill in a real fight, yet when I tell you to show up you start dodging and gaslighting. If you can’t take the heat then stop trying to argue with me, it’s that simple. Show up and prove it or stop arguing with me 😂

Faltasë · March 13

hoangdz wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

hoangdz wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

All of these examples never take into consideration actually using the skill in a fight, especially out in cyrodiil. Lava like your previous example doesn't stun, immobilize or knock back etc. Its just a dot. And you could do that before heart/soul of flame.

What do you mean never used in a fight? I have been dueling on my DK all night, while using Health/Spell Resist/Physical Resist potions and sitting at 600 mag recovery and 900 stam recovery fully buffed. Inhale alone is providing enough sustain for me to drop Tripots completely and remove almost all sources of stamina/magicka recovery.

I asked you to fight me in game to prove you wrong. You avoided. That sounds like you don't want to be proven wrong to me, right? It's a really simple test lmao.

I ignored you because you're obsessed with me, and its annoying. You found me in game lol and mentioned me in zone chat. Why would I give you a duel when this is eating you up so much, more entertaining. You wanting to duel me over a forum debate is cringe, I have nothing to prove, my opinion is you're over exaggerating the potency of this skill, and you cant stand someone suggesting your opinion is incorrect.

Besides that, 1v1 is not cyrodiil. Most of the fights you're outnumbered, and outnumbered that skill is not doing what you're suggesting.

If I beat you, it wouldn't prove or disprove anything and vice versa. In an actual cyrodiil scenario when you're getting piled on this skill isn't at all overperforming like you suggest, and, people are dying to players not using this skill at all, namely the storm calling dks mopping the floor with pure dks rn. Of all the things to worry about, DK getting one adequate sustain skill is far from the most concerning thing.

Considering there's not a single game mode designed around 1v1, and we dont know the potency of the next classes to be reworked, what your opinion is of the skill 1v1 is irrelevant to me.

Obsessed with you? Lmao you think too highly of yourself. I only recognized your name by accident when 1vXing because you kept commenting in my nerf Inhale thread.

Besides, you keep trying to refute my point every time I make a comment, always talking about how I never used the skill in a real fight, yet when I tell you to show up you start dodging and gaslighting. If you can’t take the heat then stop trying to argue with me, it’s that simple. Show up and prove it or stop arguing with me 😂

Tbh it sounds like you're coping, from an outsiders perspective.

hoangdz · March 13

Faltasë wrote: »

hoangdz wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

hoangdz wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

All of these examples never take into consideration actually using the skill in a fight, especially out in cyrodiil. Lava like your previous example doesn't stun, immobilize or knock back etc. Its just a dot. And you could do that before heart/soul of flame.

What do you mean never used in a fight? I have been dueling on my DK all night, while using Health/Spell Resist/Physical Resist potions and sitting at 600 mag recovery and 900 stam recovery fully buffed. Inhale alone is providing enough sustain for me to drop Tripots completely and remove almost all sources of stamina/magicka recovery.

I asked you to fight me in game to prove you wrong. You avoided. That sounds like you don't want to be proven wrong to me, right? It's a really simple test lmao.

I ignored you because you're obsessed with me, and its annoying. You found me in game lol and mentioned me in zone chat. Why would I give you a duel when this is eating you up so much, more entertaining. You wanting to duel me over a forum debate is cringe, I have nothing to prove, my opinion is you're over exaggerating the potency of this skill, and you cant stand someone suggesting your opinion is incorrect.

Besides that, 1v1 is not cyrodiil. Most of the fights you're outnumbered, and outnumbered that skill is not doing what you're suggesting.

If I beat you, it wouldn't prove or disprove anything and vice versa. In an actual cyrodiil scenario when you're getting piled on this skill isn't at all overperforming like you suggest, and, people are dying to players not using this skill at all, namely the storm calling dks mopping the floor with pure dks rn. Of all the things to worry about, DK getting one adequate sustain skill is far from the most concerning thing.

Considering there's not a single game mode designed around 1v1, and we dont know the potency of the next classes to be reworked, what your opinion is of the skill 1v1 is irrelevant to me.

Obsessed with you? Lmao you think too highly of yourself. I only recognized your name by accident when 1vXing because you kept commenting in my nerf Inhale thread.

Besides, you keep trying to refute my point every time I make a comment, always talking about how I never used the skill in a real fight, yet when I tell you to show up you start dodging and gaslighting. If you can’t take the heat then stop trying to argue with me, it’s that simple. Show up and prove it or stop arguing with me 😂

Tbh it sounds like you're coping, from an outsiders perspective.

Coping with what? Just check how often he responds to my comments. He’s obviously engaging with me just as much, then when gets called out he dodges 😂 I literally only recognized his name because of how often he responded to me btw, same with another guy called Kartoga.

hoangdz · March 13

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Besides that, 1v1 is not cyrodiil. Most of the fights you're outnumbered, and outnumbered that skill is not doing what you're suggesting.

Considering there's not a single game mode designed around 1v1, and we dont know the potency of the next classes to be reworked, what your opinion is of the skill 1v1 is irrelevant to me.

This is what you said in my nerf Inhale thread

"Like have you actually gone into the pts and dueled someone or at least fought something? The sustain is not that good in practice from that skill."

This is you literally using a 1v1 as metric for balance. First you said I didn't fight or duel anyone, which was flat out wrong because I dueled a bunch on PTS. Then when the patch drops and I duel some more, you start moving the goal post saying 1v1 isn't a metric for balance. Lmao. If I show a clip of me sustaining better than Animal Companion builds while 1vXing, what are you gonna use next? That 1vXing isn't a metric of skill?

I can pull up more screenshots from my other thread, but there is literally no point doing that. If you're going to argue how Inhale is worse than Animal Companion or whatever, please back that up with actual proof via in-game screenshots or videos. Given that I have used both Animal Companion and Ardent Flame, my experience is that Inhale is a broken sustain skill which not only leaves Animal Companion in the dust, but also does 4-6k AoE burst and allows you to increase your offensive and defensive stats to another level that no other skill in the game can achieve. That is a fact and can be backed up by simple math and theorycrafting.

xylena · March 13

hoangdz wrote: »

He’s obviously engaging with me just as much, then when gets called out he dodges

Still curious how your DK does against high tier duelers on Assassin/Restoring/X. Dueling your DK against OW players on their OW builds means about as much as clearing VMA on it.

Everyone already knows burst builds beat dot builds at comparable skill level in this meta so there's no point responding "duel me bro" here. When your DK beats duelers like Shoryu or Felon on their best 1v1 burst setups (I can't), then you can use dueling to argue DK is broken.

If in a couple weeks the whole dueling and OW metas are overrun by DK then sure we can say DK is busted, but by then I think players will have adapted their subclass builds.

hoangdz · March 13

xylena wrote: »

hoangdz wrote: »

He’s obviously engaging with me just as much, then when gets called out he dodges

Still curious how your DK does against high tier duelers on Assassin/Restoring/X. Dueling your DK against OW players on their OW builds means about as much as clearing VMA on it.

Everyone already knows burst builds beat dot builds at comparable skill level in this meta so there's no point responding "duel me bro" here. When your DK beats duelers like Shoryu or Felon on their best 1v1 burst setups (I can't), then you can use dueling to argue DK is broken.

If in a couple weeks the whole dueling and OW metas are overrun by DK then sure we can say DK is busted, but by then I think players will have adapted their subclass builds.

I dueled Shoyru yesterday but we were on DKs. He doesn’t play Assassin/Restoring/X. The last time I dueled Felon I went 5-0 vs him, but that was before DK patch. I haven’t seen him since.

What I can compare with my past experience dueling on meta subclass builds, is that pure DK is MUCH easier to play and is more threatening than my Assasination/Aedric/Storm and Assassination/Animal/Storm builds (which are two other meta dueling build that can also nuke the Assassination/Restoring/X build you mentioned).

Stormhaven isn’t a big place. When you spend enough time there, you will see mostly the same people who only run meta builds. It’s a much more difficult environment than Cyrodiil in terms of 1v1. In Cyrodiil I rarely lose in 1v1s because people generally do less damage and/or never had to repeatedly fight difficult opponents, but that’s not the case in Stormhaven. Everyone minmaxes for damage so you need to be really on top of your game to survive there (from a 1v1 standpoint). Of course this doesn’t always translates to Cyrodiil because they are different environments and require different skillsets, but since I play both, I can give a pretty accurate opinion on the class. The same people whom I had trouble with last patch, I am nuking them on pure DK, with less effort overall. Like I said, you can always go there just to spectate, it’s a much more accurate representation of class balance than Cyrodiil, especially when mobility is essentially free nowadays.

BardokRedSnow · March 13

hoangdz wrote: »

Faltasë wrote: »

hoangdz wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

hoangdz wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

All of these examples never take into consideration actually using the skill in a fight, especially out in cyrodiil. Lava like your previous example doesn't stun, immobilize or knock back etc. Its just a dot. And you could do that before heart/soul of flame.

What do you mean never used in a fight? I have been dueling on my DK all night, while using Health/Spell Resist/Physical Resist potions and sitting at 600 mag recovery and 900 stam recovery fully buffed. Inhale alone is providing enough sustain for me to drop Tripots completely and remove almost all sources of stamina/magicka recovery.

I asked you to fight me in game to prove you wrong. You avoided. That sounds like you don't want to be proven wrong to me, right? It's a really simple test lmao.

I ignored you because you're obsessed with me, and its annoying. You found me in game lol and mentioned me in zone chat. Why would I give you a duel when this is eating you up so much, more entertaining. You wanting to duel me over a forum debate is cringe, I have nothing to prove, my opinion is you're over exaggerating the potency of this skill, and you cant stand someone suggesting your opinion is incorrect.

Besides that, 1v1 is not cyrodiil. Most of the fights you're outnumbered, and outnumbered that skill is not doing what you're suggesting.

If I beat you, it wouldn't prove or disprove anything and vice versa. In an actual cyrodiil scenario when you're getting piled on this skill isn't at all overperforming like you suggest, and, people are dying to players not using this skill at all, namely the storm calling dks mopping the floor with pure dks rn. Of all the things to worry about, DK getting one adequate sustain skill is far from the most concerning thing.

Considering there's not a single game mode designed around 1v1, and we dont know the potency of the next classes to be reworked, what your opinion is of the skill 1v1 is irrelevant to me.

Obsessed with you? Lmao you think too highly of yourself. I only recognized your name by accident when 1vXing because you kept commenting in my nerf Inhale thread.

Besides, you keep trying to refute my point every time I make a comment, always talking about how I never used the skill in a real fight, yet when I tell you to show up you start dodging and gaslighting. If you can’t take the heat then stop trying to argue with me, it’s that simple. Show up and prove it or stop arguing with me 😂

Tbh it sounds like you're coping, from an outsiders perspective.

Coping with what? Just check how often he responds to my comments. He’s obviously engaging with me just as much, then when gets called out he dodges 😂 I literally only recognized his name because of how often he responded to me btw, same with another guy called Kartoga.

No one wants to link up with someone from the forums over a forum debate, I come here while at work to discuss the game and when Im at home I wanna play the game, with friends, not prove something to someone who cant handle a different opinion.

I never looked for you in game, didnt even know your name and if it was the same as here or not. You saw me after a fight we had against ep in a tower, decent fight if I recall, then started following me, calling me "heart of flame enjoyer" making sure I knew who you were, then started mentioning my name in zone chat when I didnt remember who you were immediately.

There is definitely not equal interaction here.

BardokRedSnow · March 13

hoangdz wrote: »

I can pull up more screenshots from my other thread, but there is literally no point doing that.

You cherry picked my response and left out more of my argument, I was trying to see if you had tested it in a fighting scenario at all. Dueling is the easiest way to test something, doesn't mean its the best way. Case in point right under the post I made that you screenshotted:

So if you took it personal that I asked you if you tried it in a duel or something, I have no idea but you can't mimic a 1vX scenario or fighting multiple people in a duel, its only part of the equation. I made many builds I had to trash later because it performed well in duels in IC or with friends, but poorly in cyrodiil.

Edit: And while you were dueling people on the pts I was in cyrodiil fighting against multiple testers, thats the reason I felt so strongly that the skill was just okay, and having tried it in full now and comparing it to my subclassed build, I still feel that way.