Are you using invigorating trait ?

Xarc · March 5

Just to know.
Thanks !

Note that the survey is anonymous, for those who do not want to reveal their mysterious build

LunaFlora · March 5

No i do not use the Revigorating trait, nobody does as it does not exist.

i do use the Reinforced and Invigorating traits sometimes.

frogthroat · March 5

As a PVE DD I use: Divines and Infused in MA nuke builds
As a PVE H I use: Divines
As a PVE T I use: Divines/Reinforced/maybe Sturdy if I still have pieces with that trait.
As a PVE solo I use: Divines/Reinforced if I wear heavy chest
As a PVP player I use: Divines/Well-Fitted/Reinforced/Impenetrable
In XP grinding I may use Training trait.

I don't think I use any other traits.

No Invigorating, and no Nirnhoned. Nirnhoned would be useful if and only if I would want to add more armor to hands and/or waist for a tank, but that has never happened.

Jestir · March 5

Wot, tbh I meant to click no but the options are backwards compared to normal

Xarc · March 5

LunaFlora wrote: »

No i do not use the Revigorating trait, nobody does as it does not exist.

i do use the Reinforced and Invigorating traits sometimes.

In French it's "revigorant," which I think can be translated as "revigorating" or "reinvigorating". I think everyone understood except you.

Jestir wrote: »

Wot, tbh I meant to click no but the options are backwards compared to normal

haha yes I just wanted to put no in red and yes in blue

LunaFlora · March 5

Xarc wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

No i do not use the Revigorating trait, nobody does as it does not exist.

i do use the Reinforced and Invigorating traits sometimes.

In French it's "revigorant," which I think can be translated as "revigorating" or "reinvigorating". I think everyone understood except you.

Thanks for the clarification about French, i am guessing this means you are referring to the invigorating trait. This was not clear to me when i first saw the poll.

We do not know if everyone that saw the poll understood it.
You only know what people say and it is possible other people voted No for the same reason as i.

I made my first comment precisely because being inaccurate with words will lead to some people not understanding you, even if you believe it is completely understandable to everyone.

GloatingSwine · March 5

No.

Even as someone who mostly builds for resource recovery on support characters, you're generally going for magicka recovery specifically through Atronach mundus and divines.

Stamina recovery stops when you block, so building for it is less valuable than getting it restored from an active source, and health recovery being applied every 2 seconds means it's too slow to rely on at any time you actually need health to be recovered. There's almost no amount of it they could practically give to make you care about chasing it.

Xarc · March 5

A legendary piece with the Invigorating trait grants 16 health, magicka, and stamina.
Seven pieces with the Invigorating trait provide 112 regeneration, which is still very little considering the sacrifice of traits like Divine, Impenetrable, Reinforced, or others.

A simple drink or meal can provide ~450+ regen, so I think this trait should really be reconsidered by the dev Combat Team

The only advantage of this trait, I think, is that currently it's used to spend transmutation gems.

PeacefulAnarchy · March 5

Xarc wrote: »

The only advantage of this trait, I think, is that currently it's used to spend transmutation gems.

What do you mean?
If you mean crafting cheap, transmuting to nirnhoned the deconstructing then no it isn't because people do that on weapons for the weapon nirncrux, not on armor. Also the base trait materials are all similarly cheap.

GloatingSwine · March 5

Xarc wrote: »

A legendary piece with the Invigorating trait grants 16 health, magicka, and stamina.
Seven pieces with the Invigorating trait provide 112 regeneration, which is still very little considering the sacrifice of traits like Divine, Impenetrable, Reinforced, or others.

A simple drink or meal can provide ~450+ regen, so I think this trait should really be reconsidered by the dev Combat Team

Traits and food aren't in contest with each other.

Invigoarting is in contest with Divines, whch provides 197 magicka recovery. So in theory 3x 112 is "better" than that but as I noted above it isn't because the classes that stack recoveries don't care anywhere near as much about the other two.

Xarc · March 5

PeacefulAnarchy wrote: »

Xarc wrote: »

The only advantage of this trait, I think, is that currently it's used to spend transmutation gems.

What do you mean?
If you mean crafting cheap, transmuting to nirnhoned the deconstructing then no it isn't because people do that on weapons for the weapon nirncrux, not on armor. Also the base trait materials are all similarly cheap.

No, of course not.
I'm talking about looting items with that trait and using your gems to transmute them into other traits.

El_Borracho · March 5

I can't think of a time Invigorating has been useful, especially now that regen/sustain is rarely an issue. I've been playing since Morrowind, so maybe it was useful before that.

Someone mentioned Nirnhoned. It is useful on weapons for more DPS. Recently, the game vacillates back and forth between Nirnhoned, Charged, and Infused as to what works better. Used to just be Sharpened vs. Precise vs. Nirnhoned

YandereGirlfriend · March 5

This is another example of why "spreadsheet balancing" fails so hard.

The spreadsheet says that quantitatively Invigorating is "stat-dense" and good value but that approach completely ignores its real-world gameplay context as well as its competing alternatives.

Proper balance always requires a qualitative view. And when we do that, as evidenced by this thread and the responses, we can see that the trait may as well not exist for how often it is chosen. Devs should ask themselves why that is and react accordingly.

code65536 · March 5

This is a case of ZOS forgetting that the trait exists.

Alright, it's time for some history: back in 2017, when the trait made its debut, this is how it stacked up against Divines with Atronach/Serpent:

code65536 wrote: »

Atronach or Serpent Mundus: +238 Mag or Stam regen

With gold Divines, that's +7.5%, or +18 Mag or Stam regen

With gold Invigorating, that's +11 Mag, Stam, and Health regen

So if want single-resource regen, Divines if you are using a regen Mundus is best. Invigorating returns less than Divines, but covers all three pools.

I think the numbers for Invigorating are fair. You may think +11 regen is insignificant, but it's in line with what other traits do--armor traits in general have always been pretty insignificant in comparison to the much more important weapon traits.

But in the intervening years, Divines was buffed from 7.5% to 9.1%, and the Mundus stones were buffed from 238 to 310. But Invigorating has not been touched.

So instead of +11 for all resources vs. +18 for one resource, it's now +11 vs. +28.

If Invigorating were to be buffed to keep parity with the 2017 balance, it should be +17 instead of +11.

But personally, I think Invigorating should be +20 to make it an interesting and compelling (but still somewhat niche) option. Whatever the case, though, leaving it at +11 is simply a case of ZOS forgetting that the trait even exists. @ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_Gilliam

Xarc · March 5

Resource regeneration isn't a problem in PvE, at least not that I know of (and from what I've played across all three roles). Rotations and opponent management are predictable most of the time, so it's fine. Although I have seen some players complain about having to make a heavy attack from time to time, I think their rotation wasn't working properly.

But from a PvP perspective, it can quickly become an issue depending on the player.
For example, if a piece of gear with the Invigorating trait increases its regeneration from 8 to 50, It's nothing extraordinary either, but it would still put the feature back into the game, and we could quickly see players replacing one or two pieces of Impenetrable gear with Invigorating to gain an extra 100 regeneration.
And don't think that trading resistance for regeneration will make fights endless...

Kartalin · March 5

Or as some of us call it, the Infuriating trait. Well, less annoying to get since we have trait changing and re-creation capabilities now but it was always a bad time if you were farming for a certain trait and got this instead.

Wish we still had the Weighted trait, which increased LA/HA speeds, would be great for HA builds. It was replaced by Decisive and then Prosperous (increased gold from drops) became Invigorating. Would rather have replaced Prosperous with Decisive and just kept Weighted.

code65536 · March 5

Kartalin wrote: »

Wish we still had the Weighted trait, which increased LA/HA speeds, would be great for HA builds. It was replaced by Decisive and then Prosperous (increased gold from drops) became Invigorating. Would rather have replaced Prosperous with Decisive and just kept Weighted.

Weighted was a weapon trait. It was replaced by Decisive.

Invigorating is an armor trait. It was originally Exploration, which granted bonus XP when discovering new locations. Then it was changed to Prosperous to increase the amount of gold that enemies drop. And then it was changed to Invigorating.

YandereGirlfriend · March 5

Niche traits need to be more powerful than the obvious general purpose traits in order for them to ever be selected.

One of the additional reasons why Invigorating fails so hard is because the spreadsheet is giving equal weight to the Health Recovery stat, which is incorrectly set in its ratio against the other stats (indeed, only the fatally flawed spreadsheet could think that 129 Health Recovery is equivalent to 3% Critical Chance, heh heh).

Health Recovery is basically a dead stat. All but useless in PvP due to Battle Spirit and AFAIK not even respected by tanks in PvE. Who is that stat for? If we do not have a clear answer then it may as well not exist.

Radiate77 · March 5

We could definitely use another trait pass for Armor and Jewelry. Weapons seem to be in a good spot.

katanagirl1 · March 6

You are kidding, right???

Hapexamendios · March 6

I used it for research purposes and that's it.

Necrotech_Master · March 6

i think i tend to stick with divines mostly because that offers the most flexibility, as all you have to do is change mundus stone

changing traits is arguably significantly more expensive and it locks you in for 1 specific function, though it can stack with the mundus

like code said, the trait as it is currently is far too weak to be worth bothering with, i think most thought it was weak even when it first debuted which didnt help its rep at all lol

Oblivion_Protocol · March 6

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Health Recovery is basically a dead stat. All but useless in PvP due to Battle Spirit and AFAIK not even respected by tanks in PvE. Who is that stat for? If we do not have a clear answer then it may as well not exist.

Several years ago, I made a solo PvE build that I called ‘The Healing Factor’. Through armor sets and CP, I managed to get my health recovery up to around 5.8k. Whenever I took damage, I’d just pop a damage shield and regenerate like Wolverine.

Other than that niche bit of fun, I also fail to see the purpose behind health recovery.

Vulkunne · March 6

The what?

Emeratis · March 6

I wish it'd get removed or reworked. It's not like there isn't some precedent. Also, semi-relevant I miss when we had an attack speed weapon trait and want it back. It was fun and I miss it even years later.

Sordidfairytale · March 6

code65536 wrote: »

...Then it was changed to Prosperous

Ah good ole Prosperous.

Paramedicus · March 6

Please stop talking about Invigorating trait or ZoS will nerf it

ESO_Nightingale · March 6

Jestir wrote: »

Wot, tbh I meant to click no but the options are backwards compared to normal

Same

Carcamongus · March 6

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Niche traits need to be more powerful than the obvious general purpose traits in order for them to ever be selected.

One of the additional reasons why Invigorating fails so hard is because the spreadsheet is giving equal weight to the Health Recovery stat, which is incorrectly set in its ratio against the other stats (indeed, only the fatally flawed spreadsheet could think that 129 Health Recovery is equivalent to 3% Critical Chance, heh heh).

Health Recovery is basically a dead stat. All but useless in PvP due to Battle Spirit and AFAIK not even respected by tanks in PvE. Who is that stat for? If we do not have a clear answer then it may as well not exist.

I'm a tank and I like my health recovery: my favorite set before getting properly geared for harder trials was Green Pact. As for the topic of this thread, if I want to feel invigorated I'll have some Juan Valdez coffee. The trait should have remained as prosperous.

BXR_Lonestar · March 6

Invigorating in its current state is just a total waste. It badly needs a rework. Maybe bring back the prosperous trait instead.

The problem is that sustain is so easy right now, there is just no need for extra sustain via invigorating. Just get rid of it and go with something else. Increased run/walk speed would be useful.

Xarc · March 6

After 100 votes, unsurprisingly, few players are using the trait. And among the 10% who voted yes, many apparently voted a little too hastily and would have preferred to vote no.

Thank you all

ZOS, the controls are yours.

The Elder Scrolls Online

Are you using invigorating trait ?

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