Rungar wrote: »

someone did more theoretical damage easier in a video than his friend could do in the game and it somehow invalidated the whole game even though the content didnt change and the numbers from the video were likely never seen or even applicable in actual content. So rather than adapt his build to improve his damage he just chose to quit instead.

this isnt a subclassing issue. This is an issue brought forth by your game relying on dps as the only metric that really matters in terms of perception. The nightblade ( and every other class) was already outclassed by the arcanist and its been that way for years. Why didnt he quit before? Was this just the last straw?lol.

im not expert but last i checked it was completely normal and expected in eso to switch your entire chatacter to whatever was generating the top dps in any given patch which changed often. So zos give players the power to avoid doing that and the sky falls because of it?

things dont add up.

not difficult to understand.
meta build auto own old patch buffs and some skill line really to bad so nobody run them
so it mean the support gear or buff that non meta rely on is also gone ,content still not change,but group changed,if you not meta build ,game more hard and your non meta build more weak
next trial boss hm have 300m health.. they are design for meta build, zos in DK rework week 2 ,need give Dk a very big buff to fight with meta subclass,This buff gap is the gap between all non build lose to meta now(30-45%).
Yes,in old patch ,we alway change your gear/stone/race/skill to adapt new meta,but now when you lose 30% in starting point,it not enough

tomofhyrule wrote: »

THIS IS NOT A TES SINGLE PLAYER MAINLINE GAME

As an MMO, there does need to be some different mechanics. Classes are one of the main ways to give a handle because balance, which doesn't matter at all in moddable, single player games is important in a game where players can compete with each other.

We have seen that Subclassing was really not that good for the game's health as a whole. Did it bring some players back to the game and make TES fans happy? Yes. But did it also lead to an exodus? Also yes. No other feature got a "what do you think about this thing we added?" forum thread and questionnaire a few months after releasing, which suggests that the team was taken aback by the playerbase's reaction to Subclassing being added. And since then, we've gotten a survey to ask about how each Class feels and plays (notably stressing the unsubclassed versions), Class-by-Class rebalances to really hone in on their line themes, and soon Class Masteries specificaly to make unsubclassed players feel more rewarded.

Even though I had some fun with it, I agree with this.

I am not sure I can really describe properly what I'm about to say to someone who is suggesting that classes might as well be removed, but class identity is also important and enjoyed by many who play MMOs because historically a big part of MMOs is making multiple characters on different classes and playing the game again on the other classes. Part of what makes this a viable path for replayability is that each class has a different feel. Like, a different rhythm and a different toolkit that makes gameplay with a different class seem like a different experience. Working around things your class CAN'T do to find creative ways to bring out the best in your character is just as important to this experience and it is just not the same to be able to say - I'll pick the best execute from class A, the best shield from class B, the best spammable from class C. At some point, you just feel like you could be on any character and what's the point of having multiple characters or replaying content? You're basically just playing a frankenstein monster.

I came to ESO for the MMO piece, and I learned about the lore when I got here. So for me personally, I don't really care that a class is true to its lore, so much, but the game feels to me like it has more possibilities if I know there are seven classes to try, with seven different strengths and weaknesses to explore and master, than if there is a mishmash of 100 abilities but no real classes. I LIKE the fact that the devs put some thought is put into how the abilities within a class synergize with each other, in combat and visually. I would HATE it if we only ever got single lines released going forward, and never another class identity.

The other thing about subclassing is that, for end game, many people are choosing their lines primarily based on the math behind the passives, as opposed to the actual abilities... which is even a less fun mini-game when you really think about it. "I'm gonna add a NB line but use none of its abilities just because its passives makes me more powerful" is just... meh to me.

After playing for a while, I have found that the most irritating thing of subclassing so far is knowing what class I am but not having all of my class abilities available to me. Because I know all the classes well and I instinctively expect them to be there. This may be more of a problem for me because my favorite role is healing, idk. Personally I think subclassing should be changed so that you can always use all of your class abilities, but if you subclass a line, it adds the abilities to your arsenal but swaps out the passives. Then it would have felt more like augmenting your class instead of replacing your class, at least to me.

Anyway, not sure if that made any sense, but I would hate to see classes removed. After AwA it literally is one of the only unique things about my characters besides race. Literally everything else any other character can unlock. The only other thing that kind of comes close is vampire and werewolf because you can't be both at the same time...

No. Cause it's not mine if I can't choose to build with it. Fantasy, story and the concept of identity are all kin.

Rungar wrote: »

moderatelyfatman wrote: »

SgtSilock wrote: »

Renato90085 wrote: »

SgtSilock wrote: »

Renato90085 wrote: »

Unlikely,too many player have left game because of this.
if you know how to read log,you can very easy notic U46 patch is only one Chapter lost half more player in all pve content

All because of subclassing?

I didn’t realise class identity mattered so much to players.

main problem not only class identity or subclass fun or not,it just unbalance so everyone i know cant play they like or main
like..my best friend is top nb main too,but he is few player who use nb did hardest pve thing and i not yet,U46 drop,in 180k meta subclass,our 135k nb now just a joker,hard to play and do lowest dps,and zos choose nerf nb skill to nerf meta,it main reason he leave,he choose nb to play,not arc because we like nb high cpm style,but now it no matter
it like today a FPS game have one gun have sniper distance,dmg better shotgun,full auto,no recoil, 200+ bullet,so other weapon no reason to exist
better way is U46 balance all skill line first and add subclass in later patch,but it not matter now.

I'm sorry, someone is going to need to translate this for me lol

I believe the poster was talking about class balance and stated that their top end nightblade friend can either get 180k dps on their subclassed Nightblade (Arc Beam, I guess) or they can do 135k dps on their pure class and be considered a joke since nightblade damage is almost entirely single target. I can related because I know of a number of really top end nightblade players who have also quit the game for the same reason.

no one in the game can compete with arcanist beam. Its been that way for a long time. That isnt a subclassing issue. Am i missing something here? Has the arcanist not been on top of the pile for literally years? Has it not been the easiest way to generate top dps since its less reliant on weaving than traditional builds and has high single target and cleave damage.

seems like these are long term gripes to me, and completely warranted, but i dont see how subclassing or the other favorite hybridization account for and is a breaking point for all eso's many flaws.

I think one think subclassing did was remove any small advantages other classes may have had over the arcanist.

For example, prior to subclassing I could bring by Magplar into trials. The Radiant Oppression skill gave the templar an advantage over the arcanist beam. So for encounters where the execution phase was important, having a templar in the mix was worth it.
Now arcanist can just slot Radiant Oppression due to subclassing. No need for templars any more. No need for anything other than arcanists these days.