Au Revoir, Battlegrounds

El_Borracho · March 3

Events like Deathmatch Weekend remind me just how much fun Battlegrounds are. Spawn camping, warden charm all over the map, streakers streaking, hardos, quitters, AFK players, crash-outs over group chat, the player who only spams Jesus beam making public accusations of cheating because you somehow did not die and instead killed them for the 12th time in a row, "former emperors" constantly reminding others they were once emperor after they die for the 12th time in a row, players who only spam surprise attack or deep fissure telling others they are "doing it wrong," ROA enthusiasts complaining about Null Acra, werewolves spamming howl, players who forgot BGs are no CP making public accusations of cheating because their builds "do not work like they do in GH," sub-50 players who also forgot BGs are no CP and are perpetually dead, and of course spawn camping. I mean, who doesn't like spawn camping!

Going to have to take a few months off from BGs, just to recover from the sheer ecstasy of BGs. Humans are not meant to fly this close to the sun.

Oh, and a special shout-out to the dev who put a flower planter under the Fire Drakes spawn point in Port Dufort that you can get trapped in after jumping down to fight God's chosen spawn campers. Chef's kiss!

rockDokRock · March 3

El_Borracho wrote: »

Events like Deathmatch Weekend remind me just how much fun Battlegrounds are. Spawn camping, warden charm all over the map, streakers streaking, hardos, quitters, AFK players, crash-outs over group chat, the player who only spams Jesus beam making public accusations of cheating because you somehow did not die and instead killed them for the 12th time in a row, "former emperors" constantly reminding others they were once emperor after they die for the 12th time in a row, players who only spam surprise attack or deep fissure telling others they are "doing it wrong," ROA enthusiasts complaining about Null Acra, werewolves spamming howl, players who forgot BGs are no CP making public accusations of cheating because their builds "do not work like they do in GH," sub-50 players who also forgot BGs are no CP and are perpetually dead, and of course spawn camping. I mean, who doesn't like spawn camping!

Going to have to take a few months off from BGs, just to recover from the sheer ecstasy of BGs. Humans are not meant to fly this close to the sun.

Oh, and a special shout-out to the dev who put a flower planter under the Fire Drakes spawn point in Port Dufort that you can get trapped in after jumping down to fight God's chosen spawn campers. Chef's kiss!

My experience with this, as someone new to it, was just the lack of any kind of balancing or match making. I don't have a PvP build and I would not even know what a good set is (I have zero desire to grind new sets at this point anyway). Just smoked match after match. Several we managed 0 points. WhY dOnT pEoPlE pLaY pVp. It's a mystery.

I was just trying it out and I was just a kill pill vs those who live and breathe this stuff. That's fair enough, but does it make sense to put me up against this as a totally new player (with team mates who were clearly as green as I was).

Thumbless_Bot · March 3

El_Borracho wrote: »

Events like Deathmatch Weekend remind me just how much fun Battlegrounds are. Spawn camping, warden charm all over the map, streakers streaking, hardos, quitters, AFK players, crash-outs over group chat, the player who only spams Jesus beam making public accusations of cheating because you somehow did not die and instead killed them for the 12th time in a row, "former emperors" constantly reminding others they were once emperor after they die for the 12th time in a row, players who only spam surprise attack or deep fissure telling others they are "doing it wrong," ROA enthusiasts complaining about Null Acra, werewolves spamming howl, players who forgot BGs are no CP making public accusations of cheating because their builds "do not work like they do in GH," sub-50 players who also forgot BGs are no CP and are perpetually dead, and of course spawn camping. I mean, who doesn't like spawn camping!

Going to have to take a few months off from BGs, just to recover from the sheer ecstasy of BGs. Humans are not meant to fly this close to the sun.

Oh, and a special shout-out to the dev who put a flower planter under the Fire Drakes spawn point in Port Dufort that you can get trapped in after jumping down to fight God's chosen spawn campers. Chef's kiss!

Zos failed.

Thumbless_Bot · March 3

In every way imaginable.

The only good thing, sigils, were there before, if I am not mistaken.

Erickson9610 · March 3

El_Borracho wrote: »

werewolves spamming howl

Do you mean Piercing Howl (which sounds like Roar) or Hircine's Bounty, which sounds like an actual wolf's howl? The former is their main single target spammable, while the latter is their only self heal on demand.

You can't really blame Werewolf players when they only have access to 5 skills and their morphs. Maybe if Werewolf could have more skills (like a Werewolf Scribing skill) there would be more diversity in their toolkit, so they wouldn't spam the same ability repeatedly.

Elvenheart · March 3

rockDokRock wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

Events like Deathmatch Weekend remind me just how much fun Battlegrounds are. Spawn camping, warden charm all over the map, streakers streaking, hardos, quitters, AFK players, crash-outs over group chat, the player who only spams Jesus beam making public accusations of cheating because you somehow did not die and instead killed them for the 12th time in a row, "former emperors" constantly reminding others they were once emperor after they die for the 12th time in a row, players who only spam surprise attack or deep fissure telling others they are "doing it wrong," ROA enthusiasts complaining about Null Acra, werewolves spamming howl, players who forgot BGs are no CP making public accusations of cheating because their builds "do not work like they do in GH," sub-50 players who also forgot BGs are no CP and are perpetually dead, and of course spawn camping. I mean, who doesn't like spawn camping!

Going to have to take a few months off from BGs, just to recover from the sheer ecstasy of BGs. Humans are not meant to fly this close to the sun.

Oh, and a special shout-out to the dev who put a flower planter under the Fire Drakes spawn point in Port Dufort that you can get trapped in after jumping down to fight God's chosen spawn campers. Chef's kiss!

My experience with this, as someone new to it, was just the lack of any kind of balancing or match making. I don't have a PvP build and I would not even know what a good set is (I have zero desire to grind new sets at this point anyway). Just smoked match after match. Several we managed 0 points. WhY dOnT pEoPlE pLaY pVp. It's a mystery.

I was just trying it out and I was just a kill pill vs those who live and breathe this stuff. That's fair enough, but does it make sense to put me up against this as a totally new player (with team mates who were clearly as green as I was).

There was a time that BGs were enjoyable even for newer players, and that was when you had three teams against each other. I’ve never understood why they ruined them so.

SpiritofESO · March 3

Back in 2019 and 2020, I played battlegrounds a lot, and that was back when you could choose to only play Deathmatch, which I loved.

Then I switched to Big Boy PVP and went to Cyrodiil which I soon realized was a copy-paste of one of my favorite PVP games, "Dark Age of Camelot" and it's realm versus realm versus realm PVP model.

I played so addictively and with such passion that I eventually became Empress, got the armor, got the title, and later made rank 50 Grand Overlord... it wasn't skill, it was mostly determined persistence!

Anyway, my favorite zone is Cyrodiil. I play in Gray Host, and if I am not in active battles, I am out harvesting herbs, ore, lumber, runestones, or fishing, or maybe just playing my lute... I love the zone that much!

So, BGs? Nah, why bother?!

Estin · March 3

The good news is that properly balanced battlegrounds returns in U49 next week but only as special weekend events. Be sure to play those because ZOS said if it has a lot of activity, they will bring it back as a permanent mode. The other combat issues will still be there, but at least there won't be spawn camping by a team of 8 with 2 healers.

MincMincMinc · March 3

rockDokRock wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

Events like Deathmatch Weekend remind me just how much fun Battlegrounds are. Spawn camping, warden charm all over the map, streakers streaking, hardos, quitters, AFK players, crash-outs over group chat, the player who only spams Jesus beam making public accusations of cheating because you somehow did not die and instead killed them for the 12th time in a row, "former emperors" constantly reminding others they were once emperor after they die for the 12th time in a row, players who only spam surprise attack or deep fissure telling others they are "doing it wrong," ROA enthusiasts complaining about Null Acra, werewolves spamming howl, players who forgot BGs are no CP making public accusations of cheating because their builds "do not work like they do in GH," sub-50 players who also forgot BGs are no CP and are perpetually dead, and of course spawn camping. I mean, who doesn't like spawn camping!

Going to have to take a few months off from BGs, just to recover from the sheer ecstasy of BGs. Humans are not meant to fly this close to the sun.

Oh, and a special shout-out to the dev who put a flower planter under the Fire Drakes spawn point in Port Dufort that you can get trapped in after jumping down to fight God's chosen spawn campers. Chef's kiss!

My experience with this, as someone new to it, was just the lack of any kind of balancing or match making. I don't have a PvP build and I would not even know what a good set is (I have zero desire to grind new sets at this point anyway). Just smoked match after match. Several we managed 0 points. WhY dOnT pEoPlE pLaY pVp. It's a mystery.

I was just trying it out and I was just a kill pill vs those who live and breathe this stuff. That's fair enough, but does it make sense to put me up against this as a totally new player (with team mates who were clearly as green as I was).

This is what we get when zos resets MMR and FORCES players to smurf every other week they play. For some reason zos wanted a resetting MMR leaderboard so everyone has a chance at seeing their name in the top 10 like its some kind of participation trophy.

As a newer player would you rather a more enjoyable balanced experience, or would you rather a slim chance at a participation trophy while being mercilessly brutalized?

CaiWenji · March 4

I have over 50 of those medals you get from the quest where you have to win a battleground each day. I already bought or obtained everything possible thing you can get with them(bear piece, styles, emotes, etc.). So now I collect them endlessly until they add new rewards to the bg merchant.

But I definitely hear you about that terrain obstacle. What's also annoying is that little stumble from leaving the base that is like a little CC on its own. Lol.

CatalinaWineMixer2 · March 4

El_Borracho wrote: »

Events like Deathmatch Weekend remind me just how much fun Battlegrounds are. Spawn camping, warden charm all over the map, streakers streaking, hardos, quitters, AFK players, crash-outs over group chat, the player who only spams Jesus beam making public accusations of cheating because you somehow did not die and instead killed them for the 12th time in a row, "former emperors" constantly reminding others they were once emperor after they die for the 12th time in a row, players who only spam surprise attack or deep fissure telling others they are "doing it wrong," ROA enthusiasts complaining about Null Acra, werewolves spamming howl, players who forgot BGs are no CP making public accusations of cheating because their builds "do not work like they do in GH," sub-50 players who also forgot BGs are no CP and are perpetually dead, and of course spawn camping. I mean, who doesn't like spawn camping!

Going to have to take a few months off from BGs, just to recover from the sheer ecstasy of BGs. Humans are not meant to fly this close to the sun.

Oh, and a special shout-out to the dev who put a flower planter under the Fire Drakes spawn point in Port Dufort that you can get trapped in after jumping down to fight God's chosen spawn campers. Chef's kiss!

Once again, I have to agree with you El Borracho. It's far too overpowered in there. I most recently heard it referred to as 'The same PvPers splashing around in their small pond'. I should add the words "Over and over again" because we all know it's the same people.
I'm still inclined to suggest a totally even playing field. Every class has the same abilities and stats. If you're that good, you're that good. I noticed myself looking at the BG que lately and just staring at my screen lol Or just hoping someone in the Guild will pull me away do do something else. Literally anything else😂

karthrag_inak · March 4

khajiit loved 3 team bgs. absolutely loved them. sometimes khajiit got face eaten, sometimes khajiit ate so many faces, but nearly always had good times.

khajiit did 2 team twice. both times this one was camped, somehow debuffed for 2billion minutes, and just generally had the absolute worst time by far in any game this one had ever played, since being a ja-khajiit in the early 80s and playing first computer games on an apple ][e.

So until 3 teams return BGs can kiss Namira's crusty nethers as far as khajiit is concerned. Apologies for rudeness but this one is still salty

Weesacs · March 4

There is so much wrong with BGs I still cant believe that nothing has been fixed - especially as, on the surface, some of them would be quick fixes.

Anyway I stay away from 8v8. 4x4 TDM balancing is difficult enough for them to get right, 8v8 TDM balancing is just a joke.

Capture the relic scoring is just terrible.

8v8 domination and crazy king can be ok at times but its hit or miss.

I just find 4x4 much better IMO.

El_Borracho · March 4

@Erickson9610 In no way am I ripping wolves, and I wholeheartedly agree with you. Fairly certain it is Piercing Howl as that is the spammable. WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Ugh.

@rockDokRock You have no idea how spot-on you are. BGs is a niche version of PVP. Its gone from a form of PVP where a player unfamiliar with PVP could test things out and get a foundation for how PVP works. Not anymore. Builds are specialized, everything from damage to heals to tanks are overpowered, and the environment plays a role seldom seen in Cyrodiil.

Having not played BGs in months prior to this event, I almost brought in one of my standard Cyrodiil builds. Its good I did not because even those are at a disadvantage in BGs. At the same time, I was not going to slap together a warden charm meta build because those are awful. So instead, I ran around with a DK subclass bow build I found on YouTube. It was super effective, super toxic, and something that would never make sense in Cyrodiil. But that is what BGs have become. I can see why someone with minimal PVP experience would be turned off by your experience as even veteran PVPers dislike it.

Xarc · March 4

there's a lot of people saying 4vs4vs4) was better (still waiting for the arguments but honestly I much prefer 4vs4

I think ZOS originally wanted to be original in 2014 with three-faction gameplay (vs other mmos), and then when the time came for battlegrounds, 3vs3vs3 was the natural next step.
But actually, three-faction was a terrible idea from the start, and 4vs4vs4 is the terrible sequel...

Glad they realized it.

edit:correction on the number

karthrag_inak · March 4

Xarc wrote: »

there's a lot of people saying 3vs3vs3) was better (still waiting for the arguments but honestly I much prefer 4vs4

I think ZOS originally wanted to be original in 2014 with three-faction gameplay (vs other mmos), and then when the time came for battlegrounds, 3vs3vs3 was the natural next step.
But actually, three-faction was a terrible idea from the start, and 3vs3vs3 is the terrible sequel...

Glad they realized it.

khajiit would also not enjoy 3v3v3 bgs. Fortunately those were never implemented in ESO. 3 team bgs were 4v4v4. Perhaps you are confusing things with another game?

Thumbless_Bot · March 4

karthrag_inak wrote: »

Xarc wrote: »

there's a lot of people saying 3vs3vs3) was better (still waiting for the arguments but honestly I much prefer 4vs4

I think ZOS originally wanted to be original in 2014 with three-faction gameplay (vs other mmos), and then when the time came for battlegrounds, 3vs3vs3 was the natural next step.
But actually, three-faction was a terrible idea from the start, and 3vs3vs3 is the terrible sequel...

Glad they realized it.

khajiit would also not enjoy 3v3v3 bgs. Fortunately those were never implemented in ESO. 3 team bgs were 4v4v4. Perhaps you are confusing things with another game?

Also, there are threads on this forum longer than
Most Tolstoy novels about how much better 3 team bgs were. That you have not read them or processed them does not mean they do not exist.

Xarc · March 4

karthrag_inak wrote: »

Xarc wrote: »

there's a lot of people saying 3vs3vs3) was better (still waiting for the arguments but honestly I much prefer 4vs4

I think ZOS originally wanted to be original in 2014 with three-faction gameplay (vs other mmos), and then when the time came for battlegrounds, 3vs3vs3 was the natural next step.
But actually, three-faction was a terrible idea from the start, and 3vs3vs3 is the terrible sequel...

Glad they realized it.

khajiit would also not enjoy 3v3v3 bgs. Fortunately those were never implemented in ESO. 3 team bgs were 4v4v4. Perhaps you are confusing things with another game?

Yes, I made a mistake ^^
but the result is the same it's X vs X vs X
.

Decimus · March 4

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

karthrag_inak wrote: »

Xarc wrote: »

there's a lot of people saying 3vs3vs3) was better (still waiting for the arguments but honestly I much prefer 4vs4

I think ZOS originally wanted to be original in 2014 with three-faction gameplay (vs other mmos), and then when the time came for battlegrounds, 3vs3vs3 was the natural next step.
But actually, three-faction was a terrible idea from the start, and 3vs3vs3 is the terrible sequel...

Glad they realized it.

khajiit would also not enjoy 3v3v3 bgs. Fortunately those were never implemented in ESO. 3 team bgs were 4v4v4. Perhaps you are confusing things with another game?

Also, there are threads on this forum longer than
Most Tolstoy novels about how much better 3 team bgs were. That you have not read them or processed them does not mean they do not exist.

Oh yes, novels written by two authors spamming on those threads, otherwise they'd be on page 200 of these forums. Let's not forget to mention that.

There's been various polls on the subject and every single one of them has come back saying people prefer team vs team... doesn't mean 3-way can't exist as a weekend event for example for some variety, but it'll be a nice reminder of how terrible they were for a lot of people when people run empty relics from point A to point B with zero PvP to "win"... or how all the unbalanced farming sessions still exist just as much as before.

If ZOS wants to fix BGs, they only need to look at how other successful games do it:

1. Revamp solo queue 4v4 into a 3v3 or 4v4 shuffle mode where everyone plays with/against each other across multiple rounds.
2. Remove flag games from 4v4 (preferably 3v3).
3. Introduce a simple win/loss MMR system, gaining or losing points based on opponents' average MMR. System tries to match you against people of similar MMR/rank.
4. Make this MMR visible and rank people based on it - they can even use same ranks as in ToT to keep it Elder Scrolls themed.
5. Introduce seasonal rewards unlocked at each rank and for people at the top MMR of the highest rank, similar to ToT.
6. Add the same matchmaking system to 8v8, minus ranks and rewards. Keep the number invisible - this is the casual mode.
7. Kick people down from spawn after 15 seconds to prevent spawn camping and toxic afk'ing to prolong matches out of spite.
8. Add a prompt to pick up chaosball, reduce the number of chaosballs to one.
9. In CtR move relics further away from spawn location, or move spawn locations close to middle to prevent the infinite respawn loop of interrupters while providing people the chance to intercept a relic runner instead. Would require substantial map redesign.
10. Reduce the amount of flags in certain Domination maps or significantly increase the amount of time it takes to flip one.
11. Add more maps.

rockDokRock · 12:30AM

El_Borracho wrote: »

@Erickson9610 In no way am I ripping wolves, and I wholeheartedly agree with you. Fairly certain it is Piercing Howl as that is the spammable. WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Ugh.

@rockDokRock You have no idea how spot-on you are. BGs is a niche version of PVP. Its gone from a form of PVP where a player unfamiliar with PVP could test things out and get a foundation for how PVP works. Not anymore. Builds are specialized, everything from damage to heals to tanks are overpowered, and the environment plays a role seldom seen in Cyrodiil.

Having not played BGs in months prior to this event, I almost brought in one of my standard Cyrodiil builds. Its good I did not because even those are at a disadvantage in BGs. At the same time, I was not going to slap together a warden charm meta build because those are awful. So instead, I ran around with a DK subclass bow build I found on YouTube. It was super effective, super toxic, and something that would never make sense in Cyrodiil. But that is what BGs have become. I can see why someone with minimal PVP experience would be turned off by your experience as even veteran PVPers dislike it.

Thanks.

I dunno. To me if you want to coax new players into it to explore you need to put them in an environment where they aren't just instantly destroyed. I just never came back. Can't be bothered.

moderatelyfatman · 12:34AM

El_Borracho wrote: »

Events like Deathmatch Weekend remind me just how much fun Battlegrounds are. Spawn camping, warden charm all over the map, streakers streaking, hardos, quitters, AFK players, crash-outs over group chat, the player who only spams Jesus beam making public accusations of cheating because you somehow did not die and instead killed them for the 12th time in a row, "former emperors" constantly reminding others they were once emperor after they die for the 12th time in a row, players who only spam surprise attack or deep fissure telling others they are "doing it wrong," ROA enthusiasts complaining about Null Acra, werewolves spamming howl, players who forgot BGs are no CP making public accusations of cheating because their builds "do not work like they do in GH," sub-50 players who also forgot BGs are no CP and are perpetually dead, and of course spawn camping. I mean, who doesn't like spawn camping!

Going to have to take a few months off from BGs, just to recover from the sheer ecstasy of BGs. Humans are not meant to fly this close to the sun.

Oh, and a special shout-out to the dev who put a flower planter under the Fire Drakes spawn point in Port Dufort that you can get trapped in after jumping down to fight God's chosen spawn campers. Chef's kiss!

At least you never have to worry about being killed by a dev on a heavy attack build.

Personofsecrets · 5:29AM

The design team could actually use data to take care of problematic play styles. Instead they nerf DK.