Unique Motif styles for Overland Difficulty

NikoSquared · February 26

I was thinking of ways for Overland Difficulty being worth it to run other than the challenge side

What if there was a crafting motif that could drop rarely depending on the difficulty selected? So a “Adventurer” style, “Seasoned” style, a “Master” style, and an elusive “Vestige” style

Then, the drop rate could scale based on certain factors of the mob being killed, like
- difficulty of the mob,
- damage dealt to mob on said difficulty,
- damage taken from mob on said difficulty (to all attackers),
- healing/shielding received from players on said difficulty,

and that would help prevent “cheesing” the system to farm motifs, what do you guys think?

Erickson9610 · February 26

As long as these motifs are not tradable, I don't see an issue. They're purely cosmetic, and disallowing them from being traded prevents them from influencing the economy. Though that does mean if they show up in crafting writs, those players would need to actually play the game in those difficulties to earn those styles.

WerewolfMoonHunter · February 26

NikoSquared wrote: »

I was thinking of ways for Overland Difficulty being worth it to run other than the challenge side

What if there was a crafting motif that could drop rarely depending on the difficulty selected? So a “Adventurer” style, “Seasoned” style, a “Master” style, and an elusive “Vestige” style

Then, the drop rate could scale based on certain factors of the mob being killed, like
- difficulty of the mob,
- damage dealt to mob on said difficulty,
- damage taken from mob on said difficulty (to all attackers),
- healing/shielding received from players on said difficulty,

and that would help prevent “cheesing” the system to farm motifs, what do you guys think?

I like the idea, but the drops must be bound. Otherwise it won't have much sense.

LunaFlora · February 26

As long as they are tradeable sure!

Low drop chances on difficulty modes not everyone will use seems not fun.
Similarly not fun like Treasure Map antiquity furnishings.

edited to change "antiquity antiquities" to "antiquity furnishings".

Arunei · February 26

Why would they need to be bound? People can already do really hard Dungeons and trade the Motifs that drop from those, why would these be any different? The logic of "people would have to do the content" should be applied to ALL Motifs in that case.

If something like this were to be implemented they should be like every other Motif, which is to say be tradeable.

Erickson9610 · February 26

Arunei wrote: »

Why would they need to be bound? People can already do really hard Dungeons and trade the Motifs that drop from those, why would these be any different? The logic of "people would have to do the content" should be applied to ALL Motifs in that case.

If something like this were to be implemented they should be like every other Motif, which is to say be tradeable.

I feel that the intention of difficulty-based motifs is to reward you for playing on a higher difficulty, to show off your skill at the game. It's something more than just gold and XP, at least.

Being able to buy the motifs for the highest difficulty would defeat the purpose of having motifs for utilizing Challenge Difficulty.

Arunei · February 26

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

Why would they need to be bound? People can already do really hard Dungeons and trade the Motifs that drop from those, why would these be any different? The logic of "people would have to do the content" should be applied to ALL Motifs in that case.

If something like this were to be implemented they should be like every other Motif, which is to say be tradeable.

I feel that the intention of difficulty-based motifs is to reward you for playing on a higher difficulty, to show off your skill at the game. It's something more than just gold and XP, at least.

Being able to buy the motifs for the highest difficulty would defeat the purpose of having motifs for utilizing Challenge Difficulty.

How though? The person selling it was still able to do it, and just as many would be doing the content for the challenge itself (since that's what so many people claimed to want over the years) and would either use the Motifs or sell them because they don't care about rewards and only actually wanted the added challenge.

Also how does it defeat the purpose when people who DO want extra rewards use those rewards? You can't claim it would defeat the purpose for everyone when only a portion of people doing the content would be doing it to farm stuff to sell.

NikoSquared · February 26

My intent with this post was to have them “unbound” as an item to be sold to other players, in theory being worth lots of gold due to the difficulty to obtain, like Dungeon Motifs.

Perhaps they could be “bound” as well, maybe it could be similar to scribe scripts, where you can get guaranteed bound drops daily by playing on a higher overland difficulty, but “unbound” is harder to obtain and/or luck dependent

Carcamongus · February 26

People have been complaining for years that overland is too easy, so getting what they asked for should be enough of an incentive to up the difficulty. I'm against creating rewards that are limited to those who choose higher difficulties.

Emeratis · February 26

I'm personally not a fan of this. I have niche uses for the overland difficulty (mostly actually getting to hear story bosses' dialogue instead of afking til they talk so I don't accidentally nuke them) but outside of that and challenges with friends I'd prefer not to feel pressured to use it when I don't want to. I'd rather them keep the system as more optional/choice based. I think better droprate on existing items would be fine but adding new exclusive drops to higher difficulties is not what I want to see.

wolfie1.0. · February 26

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

Why would they need to be bound? People can already do really hard Dungeons and trade the Motifs that drop from those, why would these be any different? The logic of "people would have to do the content" should be applied to ALL Motifs in that case.

If something like this were to be implemented they should be like every other Motif, which is to say be tradeable.

I feel that the intention of difficulty-based motifs is to reward you for playing on a higher difficulty, to show off your skill at the game. It's something more than just gold and XP, at least.

Being able to buy the motifs for the highest difficulty would defeat the purpose of having motifs for utilizing Challenge Difficulty.

People already buy dungeon runs and trials for achievements for the hardest content.

All this would do is create a similar market for the harder overland content. It would also make running the harder content have less value overtime.

Allowing trading would give reason for a person to keep farming the motifs long after the motif was complete.

NikoSquared · February 27

Carcamongus wrote: »

People have been complaining for years that overland is too easy, so getting what they asked for should be enough of an incentive to up the difficulty. I'm against creating rewards that are limited to those who choose higher difficulties.

Which is why I suggested adding a daily bound page, for maybe killing a world boss or similar, that way people would group up to do so (of course, they’d all have to be on Vestige to have solid odds)

Additionally, Veteran dungeon motifs already exist, and HM increases the drops for those too. This does not clash against existing game design.

TX12001rwb17_ESO · February 27

What is a "Master" or "Vestige" style exactly, a Master of what?

Displaced_Salad · February 27

Certain players have asked for harder overland difficulty for "the challenge" and I've seen several opponents predict this very thing: becoming about rewards and exclusivity. Meanwhile any mention of an alternate way to acquire game rewards limited to harder content is roundly criticized as being entitled. I'd say that word is more fitting to describe asking for a harder difficulty, actually getting it, ostensibly, and then asking for more.

NikoSquared · February 28

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

What is a "Master" or "Vestige" style exactly, a Master of what?

The names could be different for the other difficulties, but I think a “Vestige” style would be perfect

dcrush · February 28

Displaced_Salad wrote: »

Certain players have asked for harder overland difficulty for "the challenge" and I've seen several opponents predict this very thing: becoming about rewards and exclusivity. Meanwhile any mention of an alternate way to acquire game rewards limited to harder content is roundly criticized as being entitled. I'd say that word is more fitting to describe asking for a harder difficulty, actually getting it, ostensibly, and then asking for more.

Exactly.

Before harder overland was announced
People pro-harder overland “we just want a bigger challenge”
Opponents “This will lead to people asking for increased rewards”
Pro “No dude, I swear, trust me, we only want it for the challenge, please bro just believe me”

After harder overland was announced
Pro “We should get better rewards for this”
Opp “…”

(Yes this is hyperbole and I know there are still players who just want the challenge, but the amount of people asking for better rewards is remarkable)

spartaxoxo · February 28

dcrush wrote: »

Displaced_Salad wrote: »

Certain players have asked for harder overland difficulty for "the challenge" and I've seen several opponents predict this very thing: becoming about rewards and exclusivity. Meanwhile any mention of an alternate way to acquire game rewards limited to harder content is roundly criticized as being entitled. I'd say that word is more fitting to describe asking for a harder difficulty, actually getting it, ostensibly, and then asking for more.

Exactly.

Before harder overland was announced
People pro-harder overland “we just want a bigger challenge”
Opponents “This will lead to people asking for increased rewards”
Pro “No dude, I swear, trust me, we only want it for the challenge, please bro just believe me”

After harder overland was announced
Pro “We should get better rewards for this”
Opp “…”

(Yes this is hyperbole and I know there are still players who just want the challenge, but the amount of people asking for better rewards is remarkable)

The people who said they only wanted a challenge are still the same people saying that and they never claimed to speak for everyone. Now that's its a proper feature, the general public also has their say. And some of them want rewards attached because that's a normal part of gaming.

ETA
Every person is an individual. I have no control over what someone else asks for, never have, and never claimed to. Neither did the vast majority of people who said they'd personally be okay with it not having exclusive rewards.

dcrush · February 28

spartaxoxo wrote: »

dcrush wrote: »

Displaced_Salad wrote: »

Certain players have asked for harder overland difficulty for "the challenge" and I've seen several opponents predict this very thing: becoming about rewards and exclusivity. Meanwhile any mention of an alternate way to acquire game rewards limited to harder content is roundly criticized as being entitled. I'd say that word is more fitting to describe asking for a harder difficulty, actually getting it, ostensibly, and then asking for more.

Exactly.

Before harder overland was announced
People pro-harder overland “we just want a bigger challenge”
Opponents “This will lead to people asking for increased rewards”
Pro “No dude, I swear, trust me, we only want it for the challenge, please bro just believe me”

After harder overland was announced
Pro “We should get better rewards for this”
Opp “…”

(Yes this is hyperbole and I know there are still players who just want the challenge, but the amount of people asking for better rewards is remarkable)

The people who said they only wanted a challenge are still the same people saying that and they never claimed to speak for everyone. Now that's its a proper feature, the general public also has their say. And some of them want rewards attached because that's a normal part of gaming.

Ok, that’s a fair assessment.

NikoSquared · March 1

dcrush wrote: »

Exactly.

Before harder overland was announced
People pro-harder overland “we just want a bigger challenge”
Opponents “This will lead to people asking for increased rewards”
Pro “No dude, I swear, trust me, we only want it for the challenge, please bro just believe me”

After harder overland was announced
Pro “We should get better rewards for this”
Opp “…”

(Yes this is hyperbole and I know there are still players who just want the challenge, but the amount of people asking for better rewards is remarkable)

Is it so bad to want a fun mechanic to a new mode? Why am I being lumped into a stereotype of players when I’ve never posted here previously?

SilverBride · March 1

Carcamongus wrote: »

People have been complaining for years that overland is too easy, so getting what they asked for should be enough of an incentive to up the difficulty. I'm against creating rewards that are limited to those who choose higher difficulties.

This.

Deserrick · March 1

Displaced_Salad wrote: »

Meanwhile any mention of an alternate way to acquire game rewards limited to harder content is roundly criticized as being entitled.

Yes, that is quite hypocritical when you consider that people asking for exclusive rewards for overland difficulty are asking for easier access to game rewards that are typically locked behind group content.

Besides, it’s not like any of that “harder” content is actually harder, it’s something that some builds can do and some cannot. If the game cannot be balanced to squish the gap between meta builds and others, then a difficulty slider that allows all rewards to be acquired with all characters would suffice.

spartaxoxo · March 1

Motifs aren't exclusively locked behind group content. They are sourced from a variety of different places. Group content is surely the biggest source but definitely not the only one.

OP I think your idea would be fine as long as it's tradeable and has a reasonably high drop rate so they aren't too expensive. If they can be bought from traders for reasonably cheap then they could hardly classify as exclusive. The devs have already stated their intent on having rewards in the future so I think stuff like this would be a reasonable solution. If the rewards aren't purely exclusive and they're the kind of thing we already get plenty of, like motifs, people will feel less pressured into doing content they don't like. While the content can still have its own rewards like all other content in the game.

NikoSquared wrote: »

Is it so bad to want a fun mechanic to a new mode? Why am I being lumped into a stereotype of players when I’ve never posted here previously?

Sorry that's happening to you OP. The devs have already told us they'll be adding more rewards in the future so maybe they'll give your idea a shot.

Faltasë · March 1

Unique motifs for more stuff. We also need more moderately cool looking motifs instead of the motifs that often have that "endgame dungeon" look that isn't always the best.

But in general, moar motifs are always welcome.

NikoSquared · March 3

Faltasë wrote: »

Unique motifs for more stuff. We also need more moderately cool looking motifs instead of the motifs that often have that "endgame dungeon" look that isn't always the best.

But in general, moar motifs are always welcome.

Yeah, I was thinking they could do this in making a motif for each Overland difficulty, where the items look more impressive the higher the difficulty’s motif items

Erickson9610 · 1:43AM

NikoSquared wrote: »

Faltasë wrote: »

Unique motifs for more stuff. We also need more moderately cool looking motifs instead of the motifs that often have that "endgame dungeon" look that isn't always the best.

But in general, moar motifs are always welcome.

Yeah, I was thinking they could do this in making a motif for each Overland difficulty, where the items look more impressive the higher the difficulty’s motif items

Why should the harder difficulties have "more impressive" motifs than the ones for lower difficulties? This would devalue the intermediate difficulty motifs, because people will always want the motif from the hardest difficulty, rather than each motif from each difficulty.

Maybe instead of having a unique motif for each difficulty — which, again, people farming for these motifs will prefer the hardest difficulty for the most "value" — there can be just one motif that gets progressively more likely to drop the harder the difficulty? This means you have a chance to get this motif in any difficulty so you won't need to repeat the grind in each difficulty for each version of the motif.

SilverBride · 3:28AM

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Maybe instead of having a unique motif for each difficulty — which, again, people farming for these motifs will prefer the hardest difficulty for the most "value" — there can be just one motif that gets progressively more likely to drop the harder the difficulty? This means you have a chance to get this motif in any difficulty so you won't need to repeat the grind in each difficulty for each version of the motif.

Shouldn't the lower difficulty be more likely to drop the motif since it's supposed to be the easiest? Why would a motif be harder to get in the easiest difficulty?

Erickson9610 · 3:55AM

SilverBride wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Maybe instead of having a unique motif for each difficulty — which, again, people farming for these motifs will prefer the hardest difficulty for the most "value" — there can be just one motif that gets progressively more likely to drop the harder the difficulty? This means you have a chance to get this motif in any difficulty so you won't need to repeat the grind in each difficulty for each version of the motif.

Shouldn't the lower difficulty be more likely to drop the motif since it's supposed to be the easiest? Why would a motif be harder to get in the easiest difficulty?

It's to motivate players to take on harder challenges without making it impossible to get those rewards on the easiest difficulty. Players don't need motivation to stay on the default (easiest) difficulty; that would be counterproductive.

DenverRalphy · 4:04AM

I won't bother to weigh in on the reward parity aspect debate of the original post. But I will say that I would really like to see a moratorium on any new motifs being injected into the game unless they are accompanied by the retirement of an equal number of old motifs. I'm my opinion, there are too many as it is now. I truly feel sorry for new players entering the game today, and facing the amount of catch up they have to do.

coop500 · 4:07AM

I'm confused why people are demanding them to be bound. I think the market could use more mid tier items to buy and sell. I get tired of everything being bound and I can't even share stuff with friends.

Supreme_Atromancer · 4:08AM

People feel pretty strongly about the issue, OP; so there will be some strong knee-jerk reactions. Nothing wrong with making suggestions, just be prepared for some vigorous push-back.

Personally, I want to be rewarded for playing the way *I* find fun, not the way that is validated more strongly by someone else. As long as others feel the same, I think any reward structure needs to keep that in mind.

NikoSquared · 7:09PM

coop500 wrote: »

I'm confused why people are demanding them to be bound. I think the market could use more mid tier items to buy and sell. I get tired of everything being bound and I can't even share stuff with friends.

I believe the idea is that you can only get them by running it yourself, but there are plenty of rare or cool looking motifs which come from Veteran Dungeons that are unbound

My intent was to mimic this functionality, and make it so these theoretical motif drops could be sold for gold, the value of which could vary based on demand and drop rate.

But it could also just be a cool reward for players who don’t interact with the guild stores, and you just consume it for a cool new look, I don’t see why it couldn’t be both