They more they try to justify their behavior, the worse they look. It's stunning and sad how they see themselves as victims and have a conspiracy theory going that a bunch of players who don't even know each other have rallied together for a years-long coordinated effort to attack them. It couldn't be that we're all just fed up with their pervasive incessant spam. This is some Sheograth level madness.

I did not say the guild is being named and shamed, I said it's being harassed. It's already been said in this thread, everyone knows what guild is being talked about. Read the comments. It is being harassed, it is under attack. Harassment and bullying, regardless of the reason for harassment and bullying, is against TOS, is it not?

It's not being harassed, it's being called out. Don't play the victim card. Your GM comes into these threads and pretty much spits in our face about our simple request and refuses to back down.

AScarlato wrote: »

SpycyTurnyp wrote: »

I did not say the guild is being named and shamed, I said it's being harassed. It's already been said in this thread, everyone knows what guild is being talked about. Read the comments. It is being harassed, it is under attack. Harassment and bullying, regardless of the reason for harassment and bullying, is against TOS, is it not?

You and your GM really are a perfect match. Glad you found the ideal place for you.

Almost too perfect iykyk.

SpycyTurnyp wrote: »

I'm not really on here to discuss the rules of the guild, the comments on this thread show that people are more interested in making their own hate stories than what the truth is. I'm here to call out the harassment of this guild in this thread, and in the discords of GMs of other guilds. Inactivity purges are very standard, necessary even, for the health of any active guild.

No one has said anything about inactivity purges? It's true that because of guild size limits many guilds do this, why are you bringing this up?

When I was a new player I was invited by this guild at random while I was doing my own thing in a starter zone, it was extremely anxiety inducing and confusing, I accidentally accepted and left pretty quickly. I was invited once again the next day, this time I declined and the person whispered me asking why, I told them why, they were a little insistent but otherwise courteous. I asked them why they were inviting people, and they said they had a quota to fill. Over the next few days I spent in those starter zones I got invites every day, until I decided not to go to those zones anymore. Your guild's invite practices directly affected my gameplay as a new player for days. It did not feel welcoming, it felt invasive and harassing. I considered quitting the game because that was not the experience I was looking for.

It's true that in these threads there are occasionally accusations about the conduct within your guild and by it's leader. But those are not the focus of the threads, nor are they the reason most people post in them. Stop harassing the entire PCNA population and no one will care about the internal workings of your guilds.

SpycyTurnyp wrote: »

Hello all, I wanted to chime in as a member of the guild that is under attack here. Yes, under attack. This post, as well as others, are part of a coordinated attack that has been started in discords of other guilds. I personally see this as harassment, bullying, and an abuse of the forums. The GM doing all this has also joined, then left shortly after, the discord of the guild under attack, likely in order to get the usernames of officers so that they can share them with their guild and falsely mass report, which is against TOS.

Onto my experiences with the guild in question, they have been completely positive. I never would have joined a guild if it wasn't for getting a random invite, and I'm incredibly happy to have received it. The guild is full of helpful friendly people, always happy to help out. Despite what everyone is posting here (because they were told to in discord by their GM), the guild chat is full of new members thanking us for getting invited.

Requiring discord is a very standard practice for guilds, not just for ESO, but for MMOs in general. The guild interface in ESO is lacking, and discord makes guild coordination so much easier and more efficient. Yes, the guild being attacked does have inactivity purges, just like the majority of active guilds do. This is necessary for maintaining and active guild.

This guild took me in as a new player, taught me how to play the game, spent lots of time and resources on teaching me and plenty of other members how to get into the endgame, and has become a community that I, and many others call home, and I'm tired of being harassed over an invite that many are happy to receive, and that takes less than a second to decline.

No one has reported any of the officers in your guild, and the baseless accusations there are unfounded and unappreciated. The only accounts we have reported are the ones that have done the spamming, as was instructed to us by @ZOS_Kevin multiple times.

There is nothing inappropriate about those screenshots you posted. It's literally me posting this thread link and asking my guild to chime in. Where does it say "Report The Gaming Council's Guild Leader" or "Say Something Terrible About The Gaming Council?" - you think you found some smoking gun on our discord? There is no explicit announcement about you or this issue.

Since you explicitly joined our guild (on a 2nd account, cause your first was blacklisted from our guild) to take these screenshots (our discord is not public). That means you literally joined our guild to spy on it (after previously having been blacklisted) because i'm making a post about an add-on on here. Maybe, take a second, and consider if that isn't a bridge too far? Maybe...just maybe... you need to take a step back here and evaluate what you are doing.

My guild members complaining about your many spam invites is what led to this post in the first place. I have nothing against your guild. I have an issue with your invite spam. You'll never hear about me again the moment it is gone.

I'm also sure it's no coincidence at all that we previously kicked you out of our guild @SpycyTurnyp that you are deciding to attack me and my guild personally?

The saddest part of this whole thing is that ONE PERSON can take our feedback to heart and make it stop.

You should update the addon to send each person a complementary 1000 gold when you invite them. Then we could have a new gold farm strategy.

If the cold calling invites stopped, this thread would end. Simples!

DeathandDebauchery wrote: »

I'm also sure it's no coincidence at all that we previously kicked you out of our guild @SpycyTurnyp that you are deciding to attack me and my guild personally?

I left your guild because I was being harassed for giving decent advice, not for any problems that I caused. I just didn't feel that your guild was a good fit for me, so I left. You did not kick me, and I do not appreciate you spreading lies about me.

I've read through a lot of this.

I posted a while back, in a now-closed thread. I brought up a point about ZOS allowing a couple of users (leaders/creators of the spam invite bot) dictate a large part of the ESO experience was less than ideal for ZOS - especially the spam which looks like its an official invite if you're a newbie. I'd name it to drive the point but we all know that it sounds official... almost ZOS like.

I thought that would be a selling point to actually take action - even if it was to clarify their position. Something, right? I mean, ZOS seems to have a large amount of people who are annoyed/upset and it would be in their best business interest to communicate and take action - It seemed the simplest action would be to just disable the use of the invite API for this particular use case, right? just say 'suck it up, guys... spam bots are allowed' Whatever. An answer would be nice. At least I can choose then, if I will stay and tolerate the harassment or leave.

But... beyond that... someone brought up a better point, again, a while ago. (let's say that again: A while ago with no official position from ZOS. That's frustrating!!!)

This the main thing.

No means NO.

Apparently the add-in was supposed to respect that. But that function is broke... with a promise of fixing it years from now? No, unacceptable. I can simply say its unacceptable without calling into question anyone's character. This is not personal.

But it becomes personal when:

No means NO. As in: NO. As in, I gave you my answer. Respect it and don't bother me again because that's actually harassment if you keep on at it. I said NO. I don't want to be spammed and spammed again for years and years.

That's the most powerful and profound point I can find in all of this: No means NO. And in this very wide ESO community, I think most people go to pains to respect boundaries.

Except a couple of people who are not respecting others who say: No.
And that's when it becomes harassment.

Reading a lot through this and had a final few thoughts on it.

If you’re worried about your guild being spied on, that alone indicates sending out invites to people you have otherwise never met isn’t a great community building strategy. Sounds like dialing back the invites is a surefire way to get the heat off of your guild. Great opportunity to familiarize yourselves with the existing recruiting tools.

Regardless, I’m happy this is being called out. There’s enough spam in RL, we don’t need it in games too. Hopefully ZOS can hotfix an auto decline feature or disable this guild’s add on. If nothing else, would appreciate some detailed updates from @ZOS_Kevin.

SpycyTurnyp wrote: »

Hello all, I wanted to chime in as a member of the guild that is under attack here. Yes, under attack. This post, as well as others, are part of a coordinated attack that has been started in discords of other guilds. I personally see this as harassment, bullying, and an abuse of the forums. The GM doing all this has also joined, then left shortly after, the discord of the guild under attack, likely in order to get the usernames of officers so that they can share them with their guild and falsely mass report, which is against TOS.

Onto my experiences with the guild in question, they have been completely positive. I never would have joined a guild if it wasn't for getting a random invite, and I'm incredibly happy to have received it. The guild is full of helpful friendly people, always happy to help out. Despite what everyone is posting here (because they were told to in discord by their GM), the guild chat is full of new members thanking us for getting invited.

Requiring discord is a very standard practice for guilds, not just for ESO, but for MMOs in general. The guild interface in ESO is lacking, and discord makes guild coordination so much easier and more efficient. Yes, the guild being attacked does have inactivity purges, just like the majority of active guilds do. This is necessary for maintaining and active guild.

This guild took me in as a new player, taught me how to play the game, spent lots of time and resources on teaching me and plenty of other members how to get into the endgame, and has become a community that I, and many others call home, and I'm tired of being harassed over an invite that many are happy to receive, and that takes less than a second to decline.

I don't care about that drama, at all. I only want the spam invite addon to go away or the API changed to render it unusable. That is all.
I couldn't give two flips about the guild itself. I just want the spam to stop. I'd wager most of the people in this thread feel the same way.

SpycyTurnyp wrote: »

Hello all, I wanted to chime in as a member of the guild that is under attack here. Yes, under attack.

Khajiit has to say, forcing someone to respond to a guild invite, to acknowledge and take some action while they play the game and mind their own business...to this one, that seems like an attack. Like unwelcome duel invites, only unable to be avoided by some setting. It is obviously and most certainly intrusive, one of the most intrusive things a player can do in this game to another player, since it cannot be ignored or avoided.

Surely that _is_ obvious, yes? Surely going up to someone you do not know and engaging them in a manner that they -must- respond to without their request or consent...surely that is -at the very least-, -obviously- rude and intrusive, yes? Making an addon to automate that process and create and encourage the use of a "weapon of mass distraction" as it were (please indulge khajiit his exaggerated dramatic interludes =^.^= ), that is not being done from a purely benevolent perspective, yes?

Khajiit has played ESO since beta, (with a brief break a long time ago). ~25k hours, according to Steam, This one has been the GM of a trading guild for 4 years and an officer in multiple other guilds for most of the time he has played the game. Khajiit understands the motivation to maintain membership and the difficulties in recruitment.

But to force someone to acknowledge you....well, perhaps such a thing might have unintended consequences. After all, this thread is filled with acknowledgement, is it not?