Please give us two more buttons for skills.

hiimtye · February 9

today I was painfully trimming the skills that I have unlocked, because while there is an array of useful skills I have access to, I can only equip 5 for some reason. 7+Ult is really the ideal amount.

Bar 1: single target
Bar 2: AoE

Skills 1&2: main damage dealers.
Skill 3: teleport
Skill 4: DoT
Skill 5: CC
Skill 6: utility
Skill 7: while slotted. pets could also go here, though pets should work while slotted on either bar but for some reason don't
Skill 8: Ult

I really don't understand why we don't have access to more abilities when there are so many skill trees, and now you can even subclass and whatever the other thing is with the working really hard to make new skills. the only thing I could think of is that the devs are thinking about playing with a controller, but really the dpad down arrow should only change perspective when held, not when tapped, it makes it really annoying changing perspective when you're switching bars anyway, and dpad right is just sitting there not doing anything. you can easily change active quests in the menu, or again, switch it to a held action to cycle quests. the joy of being able to rebind is that you can choose what ever works best for you.

fizl101 · February 9

10 skills and 2 ulti seems more than enough to me I'll be honest between front bar and back bar

BioBitter100 · February 9

While I also like the idea it probably wouldn´t be good for the game. You have to look at the whole game and everything it would affect. Rotations would get more complicated and everyone would get even stronger than they already are. I´m not sure what the current top dps is but I´ve seen parses ranging from 170 to 200k+, which is pretty insane since half the content in the game comes from a time when 30k dps was considered good.
Same issue for PvP, most good PvPers already are unkillable, while sustaining forever and oneshotting. Now imagine giving them 4 more flex spots for skills. You don´t want that.
So, yeah, it feels like a nice power fantasy, similar to subclassing. Just that subclassing sadly made it into the game xD. If anything 1 extra skill slot for 2 extra skills would be something to consider, but 4 extra skills would break the game in many ways.

hiimtye · February 9

fizl101 wrote: »

10 skills and 2 ulti seems more than enough to me I'll be honest between front bar and back bar

I don't know. I feel like there are far too many abilities to get away with just 5 buttons. even just using your 3 main trees you have 15+3 Ults. now add all of the other non-class specific skill trees, and then add scribing and subclassing.

but also, some people are perfectly fine with 5 instead of 10. the idea here is having the option, everyone can play their own way

edit: a lot of abilities make absolutely no sense with only 5 abilities. I bet if you took a snapshot of everyone's abilities and compiled the top abilities for each class, excluding subclassing, there are very clear losers in the skill tree which make no sense to take unless you have more options

edit2:

BioBitter100 wrote: »

If anything 1 extra skill slot for 2 extra skills would be something to consider, but 4 extra skills would break the game in many ways.

I guess the problem is that I come from other MMOs, and I feel like all of the extra skill lines are basically a waste. the game design is flawed if "4 extra abilities" is game breaking tbh. bad game design shouldn't beget bad game design

CP5 · February 9

It's intentionally lean, not bad. Other MMO's have a piano's worth of keys because most skills are on cooldowns, so you end up with many skills that fill out the time. Here you need to make those choices as to which skills to run vs which ones to shelve because you only have the limited space, and that limit defines what you are able to do, which isn't always everything.

heimdall14_9 · February 9

hiimtye wrote: »

today I was painfully trimming the skills that I have unlocked, because while there is an array of useful skills I have access to, I can only equip 5 for some reason. 7+Ult is really the ideal amount.

Bar 1: single target
Bar 2: AoE

Skills 1&2: main damage dealers.
Skill 3: teleport
Skill 4: DoT
Skill 5: CC
Skill 6: utility
Skill 7: while slotted. pets could also go here, though pets should work while slotted on either bar but for some reason don't
Skill 8: Ult

I really don't understand why we don't have access to more abilities when there are so many skill trees, and now you can even subclass and whatever the other thing is with the working really hard to make new skills. the only thing I could think of is that the devs are thinking about playing with a controller, but really the dpad down arrow should only change perspective when held, not when tapped, it makes it really annoying changing perspective when you're switching bars anyway, and dpad right is just sitting there not doing anything. you can easily change active quests in the menu, or again, switch it to a held action to cycle quests. the joy of being able to rebind is that you can choose what ever works best for you.

for PC where you have 48 keys on an keyboard for console we have 12 keys and 2 joy-sitcks so to add more skill actions we have NOWHERE for the 2 other skill actions to be placed , only way to add more would be to remove consoles and take game pad mode out the game dont see that going down to give you 2 more skills

tsaescishoeshiner · February 9

It would drastically change balance, controls, and complexity to add skills, so I don't think it's worth when we currently have plenty.

It would be interesting if we had "passive" skill slots, that could give us buffs (like Major buffs or something similar) or modify our usable skills (like change some damage to Frost damage). That would allow for some customization while making more bar space via buffs that can be removed.

SilverBride · February 9

Please no more skill slots.

heimdall14_9 · February 9

BioBitter100 wrote: »

While I also like the idea it probably wouldn´t be good for the game. You have to look at the whole game and everything it would affect. Rotations would get more complicated and everyone would get even stronger than they already are. I´m not sure what the current top dps is but I´ve seen parses ranging from 170 to 200k+, which is pretty insane since half the content in the game comes from a time when 30k dps was considered good.
Same issue for PvP, most good PvPers already are unkillable, while sustaining forever and oneshotting. Now imagine giving them 4 more flex spots for skills. You don´t want that.
So, yeah, it feels like a nice power fantasy, similar to subclassing. Just that subclassing sadly made it into the game xD. If anything 1 extra skill slot for 2 extra skills would be something to consider, but 4 extra skills would break the game in many ways.

tbh for controller play they have 0 slots to add any skill or uses of another button as every button on an controller is already used up

Erickson9610 · February 10

Once we get more Skill Scrolls (our first three are being added in Update 49) then we can just use those to have access to additional skills without slotting them on either bar.

If a quickwheel has 8 slots, then with our existing 10 regular and 2 Ultimate slots on our skill bars, we could have access to 20 different skills at the same time, provided we get 5+ more Skill Scrolls sometime after Update 49.

hiimtye · February 10

idk why everyone says the controller has no more slots. I use a gamepad on my Ally and I could do with dpad down and right very easily, switch change perspective to hold down, and use the journal for quests. boom, 2 extra buttons.

Tornaad · February 10

Unless there is a massive change to controllers, or they drop consol support entirely, or they make the usage of those skills a convoluted combo of multiple buttons on controllers, then extra buttons will never happen.

PrinceShroob · February 10

hiimtye wrote: »

idk why everyone says the controller has no more slots. I use a gamepad on my Ally and I could do with dpad down and right very easily, switch change perspective to hold down, and use the journal for quests. boom, 2 extra buttons.

I'm not sure you've considered the logistics of actually hitting those inputs, particularly during a parse. Notably, you'd either have to remove your thumb from the left stick to hit the D-pad or shift your entire right hand. You'd either be unable to move or lose access to every other skill for a moment.

But the major reason that extra skill slots would never happen is that the game was designed around limited skill space and no cooldowns. There's an opportunity cost for every skill slot--if you want to run something like Magelight for a passive buff, you have to give up another skill; if you forgo using Flames of Oblivion or something else for Major Prophecy and Savagery, you'll have to use a potion for those buffs; and so on.

I'd really just recommend using an addon to switch your skills around quickly, if you absolutely must have access to particular skills at all times.

SeaGtGruff · February 10

I don't know how difficult it would be to add even one more skill on each bar, given that our front and back bars are saved in our Armory Station build slots. That is to say, it's a bit more complicated than simply adding another skill slot or two on each bar in the UI, since any changes of that nature would also require expanding the character database(s).

Also, I'm not sure if the number of skills per bar which was decided upon way back when had anything to do with needing to accommodate game controllers, which have a lot fewer buttons and such than keyboards do.

heimdall14_9 · February 10

PrinceShroob wrote: »

hiimtye wrote: »

idk why everyone says the controller has no more slots. I use a gamepad on my Ally and I could do with dpad down and right very easily, switch change perspective to hold down, and use the journal for quests. boom, 2 extra buttons.

I'm not sure you've considered the logistics of actually hitting those inputs, particularly during a parse. Notably, you'd either have to remove your thumb from the left stick to hit the D-pad or shift your entire right hand. You'd either be unable to move or lose access to every other skill for a moment.

But the major reason that extra skill slots would never happen is that the game was designed around limited skill space and no cooldowns. There's an opportunity cost for every skill slot--if you want to run something like Magelight for a passive buff, you have to give up another skill; if you forgo using Flames of Oblivion or something else for Major Prophecy and Savagery, you'll have to use a potion for those buffs; and so on.

I'd really just recommend using an addon to switch your skills around quickly, if you absolutely must have access to particular skills at all times.

right , if they are going to add something they 1st have to make it make since to use and having to give up control to hit skills or to fumble around to get to them makes 0 since

LootAllTheStuff · February 10

On console/controller, we have a two-button combo to use synergies. You could in theory have the other two-button combo (X+A on Xbox) to trigger a skill. You could also have a "while blocking" certain buttons do something different (kind of like holding shift, alt, or ctrl down). Whether the game would be better for that, though, is another question entirely.

I don't particularly like the idea of stacking additional skills on the dPad while keeping some of the existing functions there - seems a bit messy. That's more personal preference though.

Overall, I think I'd agree with some of the other posters that the limited choice is part of the game's DNA at this point, and we should wait and see how skill scrolls and the character skill tree reworks pan out before trying to add anything else.

heimdall14_9 · February 10

ok lets just say ( using the PS controller ) they could KEY BIND ( X & ⬜ ) and ( ⬜ & ⛛ ) for two new skills ( told everyone i argue with myself about things ) WHATS THE REAL NEED OR PURPOSE ??????

hiimtye · February 10

PrinceShroob wrote: »

I'm not sure you've considered the logistics of actually hitting those inputs, particularly during a parse. Notably, you'd either have to remove your thumb from the left stick to hit the D-pad or shift your entire right hand. You'd either be unable to move or lose access to every other skill for a moment.

I understand the logistics just fine. I came to ESO from WoW using the ConsolePort addon. ESO's tiny number of skills is nothing.

sure, you need to press the buttons, but the left side is also where your potion and weapon switch is, what even is the major issue?

LootAllTheStuff wrote: »

On console/controller, we have a two-button combo to use synergies. You could in theory have the other two-button combo (X+A on Xbox) to trigger a skill. You could also have a "while blocking" certain buttons do something different (kind of like holding shift, alt, or ctrl down). Whether the game would be better for that, though, is another question entirely

I have dodge roll on "hold (B)" and synergy on "hold (Y)" and it works just fine. I moved interact on "hold (X)" because otherwise every time you try to jump over something you interact with it instead, so annoying

Orbital78 · February 10

A standard Xbox controller barely has enough buttons to support the game as it is. 3rd party controllers are getting better with more programable buttons, but I doubt Microsoft wants Bethesda to stop supporting their own games.

heimdall14_9 · February 10

Orbital78 wrote: »

A standard Xbox controller barely has enough buttons to support the game as it is. 3rd party controllers are getting better with more programable buttons, but I doubt Microsoft wants Bethesda to stop supporting their own games.

tho it could be done in an good way , i still dont see the need to do it eso once had sorc where it had an 3rd bar and players cried for it to be removed i loved it , and now with sub-classing being in the game we definitely dont need more skill options especially in PVP

Oblivion_Protocol · February 10

Adding two more skill slots per bar is utterly unnecessary. There isn’t a single build in my inventory where I think, “This is good, but it would be better with four more skills”. Most of the skills in this game are superfluous, anyway. Hell, you barely need all 10 skills for PvE content.

Gabriel_H · February 10

CP5 wrote: »

It's intentionally lean, not bad. Other MMO's have a piano's worth of keys because most skills are on cooldowns, so you end up with many skills that fill out the time. Here you need to make those choices as to which skills to run vs which ones to shelve because you only have the limited space, and that limit defines what you are able to do, which isn't always everything.

WoW builds can be upwards of 30 skills, and the hard cap is 96(?) iirc.

To the OP. More slottable skills means
Less potential builds
Throws PvE balance completely off
Throws (what's left of PvP balance) out of the window
Punishes console/controller players (though anyone on a PC using controller deserves it - just joking ... partially

)
It creates an expectation for everyone to slot 12 skills (and 2 ults) and not everyone is you

Horace-Wimp · February 10

hiimtye wrote: »

today I was painfully trimming the skills that I have unlocked, because while there is an array of useful skills I have access to, I can only equip 5 for some reason. 7+Ult is really the ideal amount...

Just 7? Why not 40?

In the MMO Rift you can have EVERY ability and more on your screen all the time. Works beautifully when you know your character well and use keyboard + mouse. Of course, many younger players can't handle that level of complexity and wind up using macros which handicap their play.

The next time you get bored of ESO and want to try something different look at Rift. It's 100% free to play but you are limited to only 5000 platinum per character unless you spend $5. Then you can have as much in game money as you want. But be warned - Rift is a FDEAD MMO and the few that still play regularly are extremely toxic. But you can easily ignore them.

Oh yeah. PvP doesn't really exist in Rift anymore. Which is kind of sad in a way.

Just a thought.

Last'One · February 10

Why not one skill for each key on my keyboard? If we don’t have enough skills to fill the whole keyboard, we should be allowed to slot skills from other players. Yeah, that would be fun!!

jaekobcaed · February 10

Personally, I prefer it the way it is. One of many reasons I just couldn't get heavily into many popular MMOs is because of how they throw a boatload of abilities and ability buttons at you. ESO's combat is the best in the genre, IMO, and part of that is because of the limit on ability slots. It makes abilities feel at least somewhat special (which makes sense, since we don't have those in the mainline TES games and thus they should feel special) and it also prevents me from feeling like I've to manage a hundred different abilities in the heat of battle.

L_Nici · February 10

I like it with 10. You need to know what you are doing, and choose wisely. Its not like WoW, where you can just slap anything on 3 Million Slots and programm a Makro doing the rotation for you.

Maitsukas · February 10

I don't know how many extra limbs you have, but my left hand cannot reach the right side of the red line if I have to move with WASD a lot.

heimdall14_9 · February 10

Maitsukas wrote: »

I don't know how many extra limbs you have, but my left hand cannot reach the right side of the red line if I have to move with WASD a lot.

seems logical to me, i never looked at it from the key board side of view just controllers as we have less buttons . but whos to say they aint got some long fingers and for them it be easy to do lol 😆

Lekjih · February 10

jaekobcaed wrote: »

Personally, I prefer it the way it is. One of many reasons I just couldn't get heavily into many popular MMOs is because of how they throw a boatload of abilities and ability buttons at you. ESO's combat is the best in the genre, IMO, and part of that is because of the limit on ability slots. It makes abilities feel at least somewhat special (which makes sense, since we don't have those in the mainline TES games and thus they should feel special) and it also prevents me from feeling like I've to manage a hundred different abilities in the heat of battle.

This. Sometimes less is more.
Also you would just end up with people stacking fighter's guild abilities they never use for extra passive damage. Pass.

INM · February 10

I feel like, it's 2014 again. Aside from being a gamepad constraint, this is also a deliberate design choice. Skills in ESO have no CD, adding 4 more skills (2 per each panel) simply means that the whole balance will go out of the window, because you can just slot more dots there, not even talking about PvP.

heimdall14_9 · February 10

INM wrote: »

I feel like, it's 2014 again. Aside from being a gamepad constraint, this is also a deliberate design choice. Skills in ESO have no CD, adding 4 more skills (2 per each panel) simply means that the whole balance will go out of the window, because you can just slot more dots there, not even talking about PvP.

right just this time we dont have sorc with its 3rd bar as an arguing point lol 😂