Alternatively, does this change risk further alienating a subset of the player population and increasing the rate of burnout & quitting?
How will a brand new player feel when confronted with the Overland difficulty in an already complex game?

sshogrin wrote: »

AlexanderDeLarge wrote: »

I've said it a million times already ITT but it's strange that people draw the line at veteran overland when we have veteran dungeons, trials and arenas. Why should difficulty be the only reward in challenge difficulty for overland and what makes that different from perfected drops in arenas and trials?

The whole game's reward structure is more challenge = more reward in every other activity, so drawing the line here is arbitrary at best.

Not all trials have perfected gear. Drops from vet dungeons aren't any different except them being purple quality instead of blue.

But all arenas have perfected gear and all veteran content has purples and some of it gold, the game throws purple gear at you in challenging content so I'm just not seeing why we're stuck on blues and people are throwing out arguments about how it'll destroy the economy if we get purples and gold.

luc76985 wrote: »

Is this change going to facilitate player growth, progression, and mode-mobility/adaptability, or is this going to widen the already existing gaps in the player base and reinforce player hierarchies?

I would argue that gap exists because we never had veteran overland in One Tamriel. It's the only bit of content in the game that doesn't have a veteran equivalent. Players are being thrown in the deep end of instanced, high pressure group content with little to no exposure to a similar level of difficulty.

In normal overland content you're killing enemies faster than they can perform whatever mechanics they have, and they're doing so little damage that you're able to ignore what little they manage to do before you kill them. These challenge modes will allow players to learn the importance of resource management, sustain, positioning, blocking, dodging and bashing without feeling like they're holding the whole dungeon/trial group back.

luc76985 wrote: »

Alternatively, does this change risk further alienating a subset of the player population and increasing the rate of burnout & quitting?
How will a brand new player feel when confronted with the Overland difficulty in an already complex game?

This game is complex?

Franchise408 wrote: »

luc76985 wrote: »

Alternatively, does this change risk further alienating a subset of the player population and increasing the rate of burnout & quitting?
How will a brand new player feel when confronted with the Overland difficulty in an already complex game?

This game is complex?

Don’t forget to add the /s LOL

Overland is so toxic with farmers and entitled players that is feels unplayable at times. This day, I advised a new player to refund and find a new game because they were unhappy about having a resource taken while they were fighting the beast beside it. It is frustrating that players are both toxic and rude. But, that is not going to change because the development promotes that kind of behavior. If a new player feels frustrated that it is happening to them, better they get their money back than hope the game changes attitudes.

Perhaps, if there are foes triggered by interacting with a resource node, the development team could tie that resources to defeating the foe rather than allowing it to be stolen away by a toxic farmer. Perhaps?

shadoza wrote: »

Overland is so toxic with farmers and entitled players that is feels unplayable at times. This day, I advised a new player to refund and find a new game because they were unhappy about having a resource taken while they were fighting the beast beside it. It is frustrating that players are both toxic and rude. But, that is not going to change because the development promotes that kind of behavior. If a new player feels frustrated that it is happening to them, better they get their money back than hope the game changes attitudes.

Perhaps, if there are foes triggered by interacting with a resource node, the development team could tie that resources to defeating the foe rather than allowing it to be stolen away by a toxic farmer. Perhaps?

I had suggested instancing resources before, and the responses were not positive. However, there have been posts on other threads expressing a desire for more instancing, so maybe there is hope that resources will be one of the things included in an increase of instancing.

Is it possible to have an alternative to doing the same MAIN story each time. I don't like the first two; don't mind the others. I really do not need to do the walk in history so many times. Lyris probably should be saved but I don't like her character. When the character is not liked, the back story becomes boring.

rockDokRock wrote: »

I guess the issue here is it's all subjective. What we all enjoy is going to be different from one another and it's going to be difficult for them to have a "one size fits all" solution - some people are going to be disappointed. One thing I *wish* I could do is enjoy the group dungeon quests and storylines. It's impossible though as everyone just wants to blow through it and move on - there is no way the other 3 people are going to wait around while you interact with NPCs and listen to their tale so that's content I'll never get to experience.

If they removed mechanics that require multiple people, and added a difficulty slider that moves in both directions, more people could enjoy questing and storylines.

Arunei wrote: »

@rockDokRock @Deserrick
You guys are in luck. The devs are actually working on solo versions of two Dungeons, idr which ones, but solo Dungeons that people can do alone (or with a Companion I imagine) are something they're testing out. I can't remember if they're actually planning on making solo versions of all Dungeons, or if these or just a test to see how viable it is. I'll find the main graphic and toss it up in a sec.

ETA the thing:

I would not consider two solo dungeons luck.

Deserrick wrote: »

rockDokRock wrote: »

I guess the issue here is it's all subjective. What we all enjoy is going to be different from one another and it's going to be difficult for them to have a "one size fits all" solution - some people are going to be disappointed. One thing I *wish* I could do is enjoy the group dungeon quests and storylines. It's impossible though as everyone just wants to blow through it and move on - there is no way the other 3 people are going to wait around while you interact with NPCs and listen to their tale so that's content I'll never get to experience.

If they removed mechanics that require multiple people, and added a difficulty slider that moves in both directions, more people could enjoy questing and storylines.

This was discussed earlier in the thread. What does a slider entail? Just more health for opponents? That's not really an answer is it (same outcome, just takes longer). They'd have to invent new mechanics or other features to make it more "challenging" which is a big ask for an entire world. Many enemies are generic so maybe it's possible to do it en masse looking at it that way. It's a great idea; I'm just not sure how it would play out in practice and if people would be satisfied with it. Taking more hits to kill a skeever isn't going to make this better for me.

disky wrote: »

Cambion2401 wrote: »

I agree we should wait, but input is important. I'm also feeling a bit cautious about the change (the fact I logged back in to the forums for the first time in ages should say something), as I pretty much exclusively play solo PvE. Currently it's mostly fine, but sometimes overland combat sometimes feels like an annoyance when running about for stuff. But hey, it's quick so not too bad. I know the mechanics and it's not like I cannot beat harder difficulties, but I don't want to have to when trying to get around to do other stuff that isn't directly linked to combat. Rather save that for bosses or other specific moments that are about the combat. The DB skill to have less aggression when mounted is already a life-saver there. Making overworld hard would be horrid if it means I have to end up spending time fighting when I'm just running one place to another for other things. But, we don't know yet if that will be the case. There have been enough good changes to the game as well. So I'm having some hope they implement it nicely. At least they've had enough time to think about it by now.

I see this opinion a lot, but I don't understand it. I know a lot of people want to do things in overland as fast as humanly possible because these people seem to enjoy being optimally efficient, but for me it's not about efficiency, it's about fun and immersion. If I see some daedra on patrol, or a group of trained soldiers, or a monster or whatever it is that is presented to me as opposition, my brain tells me that it's an obstacle I am meant to overcome, not a nuisance to be swatted away. What I want from this experience is fun, not speed. I would like to focus on the experience being satisfying, and for me that means a challenge, whether it's combat or stealth or even just preparation, in all aspects of the game.

To the people who seem to want tougher bosses only, I have to ask, why do you want this? If your goal is to get through everything quickly, will you actually want these tougher bosses when the time comes to choose a challenge or will you switch it off in frustration again? Honestly.

Oomph I had not been online a lot until recently (and am still reading up with the newly released details of all the changes coming) and didn't see any notification of someone replying to me, so I know it's old by now. But wanted to react anyway, because I think you misunderstood me. The main point wasn't to rush in general.

What I was talking about, is that at times, one might just want to grab some crafting materials, get to a specific guild trader to buy something, find a specific NPC merchant, etc. Or maybe one is just doing some quick daily that they've already done a thousand times already because your farming something. They might not be busy with story and immersion for that moment. Those are the moments I was referring too where you might just quickly want to do something, not when playing story quests.

I take my time doing quests and getting immersed. If anything, that's what I play the game for first and formost. But even then there has to be a balance between travel and story. I agree overland is much easier as one would expect from the situation, but ESO also has way more enemies than there are encounters in in single player games. There are many places where you can hardly be able to set a step outside without being in constant fights. If all of those enemies are as strong as in the single player games or as lore would suggest, that becomes a big annoyance quickly where every next step in the story takes long to reach due to having to travel trough mobs of enemies without much progression to the story. There needs to be some balance between time spend on the story and time spend on travels. Despite that, I can see the appeal of making overland more difficult in those moments, if only just for immersions sake. I'm really not against this part.

At the same time, at times, I also just wanna relaxed play the story. I get my immersion from the setting and the story more than the gameplay. It's a roleplay, and at times I wanna play as someone stronger/bigger/better than I am in real life. I love older games based on stat points with some simple, clunky controls because my characters skill is not tied to my RL skills. It's not my real hand-eye coordination and such that matters, and being a bit tired and not focussed in real life doesn't affect my in-game character. Not wanting the difficulty doesn't always have to do with not being able to handle it, or with rushing as fast as possible trough things. Sometimes, it has to do with just wanting to be able to relax and play whatever even if you're not ready to fully focus or are tired from a long day at work, acting like in-game you is not having that long day at work.

I'm all for the option of harder overland difficulty. I agree it's great for immersion. But I can also really see moments I don't want it at all, and would find it a nuisance.

Either way, since we know it will be optional, I'm excited about it more than anything. What we heard so far seems well enough for me. Multiple difficulty options with rewards for doing them, but nothing that makes you feel bad for not playing with it. Quite likely I turn the difficulty up a bit with this system, and turn it down when feeling lazy .

Arunei wrote: »

@rockDokRock @Deserrick
You guys are in luck. The devs are actually working on solo versions of two Dungeons, idr which ones, but solo Dungeons that people can do alone (or with a Companion I imagine) are something they're testing out. I can't remember if they're actually planning on making solo versions of all Dungeons, or if these or just a test to see how viable it is. I'll find the main graphic and toss it up in a sec.

ETA the thing:

Regarding solo dungeons. I'm all for it! But to be honest, I've been doing group dungeons the past few days to try to get some leads for mythic gear, and I'm not as annoyed by them as I've been in the past so I feel my opinion getting less strong against them. That being said, I still wouldn't do them without reason unless some nice people ask me, and my fun really depends on the people I'm with, so being able to avoid them would still be nice.

Imho, choice is good. Let me do solo if I want, let me do group if I want. But maybe, slowly, I feel like some incentive to do stuff together at times might be ok. As long as the incentive isn't so bad that you feel forced to. The balance needs to be good. But then, the last few months Zenimax seems to be more focussed on balancing those kinda things while giving everyone what they wants. So maybe with some time, we'll get something nice.

ADarklore wrote: »

As noted, they said many enemies actually do have different attacks, but because currently they are killed so fast, we never get to see them actually DO them. They said with the new increased difficulty levels, that players who do increase their difficulty will actually start seeing them.

I don't like that they said they are going to start doing 'story mode' dungeons- but depending how they're received will determine if that continues. The fact is, many dungeons are only run when something is needed for them (gear, achievement, etc), and for if it's just for the story, you do them once and that's it. So how will ZOS determine 'how they're received'?

IMO, they just need to make ALL group dungeons accessible solo- and if you enter solo- then the group mechanic requirements are disabled. Done.

Honestly, I just think they should let players utilize three companions like FFXIV has done. It works well for them, and is pretty fun actually. It takes longer to get through the dungeon because the NPC companions do less damage and aren't as coordinated, but they're still doable... and that's the 'penalty' solo players suffer, that it takes longer to complete those dungeons.

I think this bears repeating. I saw many times in arguments saying the increased difficulty would only be good if all mobs had mechs that required you to think and plan every move, everywhere you went. This will not happen and was a pipe dream. But it turns out that the mobs actually have mechs built in already. We just never see them. No redesign required.

As for the rewards argument I've seen up in the thread, it's coming and it's nothing to be upset over. We'll see if they add more rewards later on.