A battle pass to me just seems contrary to play the way you want

DenverRalphy · January 8

SilverBride wrote: »

I have no concept of what a battle pass even is.

As I'm relatively confident it would break some rules here (perhaps not but why risk it) I won't post a video from another game as an example, so I'll do my best to describe how they typically work. Various games do it a bit differently, but ZOS seems to be largely following suit with a popular layout. I'll try to break it into fragments to keep it simple.

A battle pass (or in this case a Tamriel Tome) is basically a 3 month long reward system often refered to as a track (or Tome in the case of ESO).

Throughout the duration of the battle pass, a perishable currency can be earned by accepting missions/objectives/quests dispatched regularly throughout the duration of the battle pass. These missions/objectives/quests do not expire until the battle pass (Tome) comes to an end, so while some can take longer than others, they're not time critical unless you're nearing the end of the pass. As well, as more missions/objectives/quests are dispatched throughout the duration of the pass, you can forego ealier options in favor of newer options, and then go back to the earlier options at your leisure.

The perishable currency can be used to purchase items created specifically for that battle pass (Tome). The items you can purchase are also sorted along a pseudo linear path called pages. All pages are viewable from the start, but there's a progression for unlocking them. Upon each page will be multiple items that can be purchased for various values of the perishable currency, and the next page doesn't unlock or become available until a specifiied amount of currency has been spent on that page.

So for example, suppose a page has 40 tokens worth of items on it, and each page unlocks after at least 30 tokens worth of items are purchased from the previous page. So you can start purchasing items from Page 2 before purchasing every item on Page 1. And so on. Each page usually has a notable prize and an assortment of common rewards. This gives the player the ability to choose which items are more important to them and which they wish to skip over.

Typically completing every mission/objective/quest can provide enough currency to purchase every item in the pass/tome, with any excess being able to be converted into in-game currency when the battle pass/tome ends. After the battle pass ends, all perishable currency expires and is reset to zero, starting over with the fresh new pass/tome.

There's more to the typical battle pass systems used by various games, including premium tiers that players can purchase that increase the amount/rate of earnable currency, or additional items that can be purchased.

I won't presume to know specifically exactly how ZOS intends to incorporate the concept. But that's the basic generic backbone of how it works.

SilverBride · January 8

Thank you for the explanation, @DenverRalphy. I'm still somewhat confused but have some understanding of it now. It sounds like a complicated system and honestly it doesn't appeal to me at all.

DenverRalphy · January 8

SilverBride wrote: »

Thank you for the explanation, @DenverRalphy. I'm still somewhat confused but have some understanding of it now. It sounds like a complicated system and honestly it doesn't appeal to me at all.

It's actually not as complicated as trying to describe makes it seem. Once you see it in action, it's actually quite simple and versatile.

Other features are possible like being able to Re-Roll your objectives. When objectives are dispatched to all the players, they're randomly assigned to each and all players. No more uniform "Everybody must kill 20 Void Creatures" style of Endeavors resulting in the entire server piling into one of a limited number of spawn locations. They will be random to each player, and if the player doesn't like their options they can take a chance and re-roll their objectives. Keeping in mind that re-roll attempts are typically limited daily/weekly. So you can't just keep perpetually re-rolling until you land on one you like.

SilverBride · January 8

DenverRalphy wrote: »

It's actually not as complicated as trying to describe makes it seem. Once you see it in action, it's actually quite simple and versatile.

Other features are possible like being able to Re-Roll your objectives. When objectives are dispatched to all the players, they're randomly assigned to each and all players. No more uniform "Everybody must kill 20 Void Creatures" style of Endeavors resulting in the entire server piling into one of a limited number of spawn locations. They will be random to each player, and if the player doesn't like their options they can take a chance and re-roll their objectives. Keeping in mind that re-roll attempts are typically limited daily/weekly. So you can't just keep perpetually re-rolling until you land on one you like.

Re-rolling sounds interesting. But it would depend on what the rewards are whether I try it or not.

It sounds a lot like Golden Pursuits, or Endeavors.

DenverRalphy · January 8

SilverBride wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

It's actually not as complicated as trying to describe makes it seem. Once you see it in action, it's actually quite simple and versatile.

Other features are possible like being able to Re-Roll your objectives. When objectives are dispatched to all the players, they're randomly assigned to each and all players. No more uniform "Everybody must kill 20 Void Creatures" style of Endeavors resulting in the entire server piling into one of a limited number of spawn locations. They will be random to each player, and if the player doesn't like their options they can take a chance and re-roll their objectives. Keeping in mind that re-roll attempts are typically limited daily/weekly. So you can't just keep perpetually re-rolling until you land on one you like.

Re-rolling sounds interesting. But it would depend on what the rewards are whether I try it or not.

It sounds a lot like Golden Pursuits, or Endeavors.

That's just it though.. you don't do them for specific rewards, but instead for the tokens/currency. You get to choose where you spend those tokens.

SilverBride · January 8

DenverRalphy wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Re-rolling sounds interesting. But it would depend on what the rewards are whether I try it or not.

It sounds a lot like Golden Pursuits, or Endeavors.

That's just it though.. you don't do them for specific rewards, but instead for the tokens/currency. You get to choose where you spend those tokens.

Oh. Maybe it's not as bad as I was imagining. Thanks for clearing that up!

Maitsukas · January 8

As long as it won't contain any items that can give an edge in PvE/PvP content (which is what RuneScape's final iteration of a BP did), I'm fine with it.

MincMincMinc · January 8

lol true it cant exactly be play how you want when there is a 10 step chore list waiting for you every time you log in

ESO+ has cost 15 since like 2015. IMO I would rather pay a higher subscription for a game with less chores and more actual gameplay.

If they actually spent the resources to fix cyrodil I would pay double the subscription easy. Sadly they gave up after two vengeance tests and decided to just cut pvp pop in half for the new mid sized gamemode.

Nemesis7884 · January 8

The vale add for free players seems good but for premium plus players questionable...

PDarkBHood · January 8

The bonus cosmetics are fine, but the real value in the Premium Tome and premium+bonuses is the time duration. The free version duration is within the season. With the premium versions there is 'no time limit to complete'. This is amazing and no one seems to be talking about it. This fits my schedule perfectly and allows me to play the way I want!

Faulgor · January 8

Removing the daily endeavors and giving more options for weeklies will actually give me much more time for "free play". I like this change a lot.

HeavyMetalHippie420 · January 27

I personally think they should lower the cost of ESO+ since they're adding in yet another paid service.

spartaxoxo · January 27

I'm actually pretty happy with this change. I think it will get more of us playing together. And it makes it much easier to skip stuff that I'm not that jazzed about because it has no impact on my gameplay.

Pevey · January 27

For a very long time, a lot of players have asked for ZOS to:

1) Reduce FOMO

2) Provide more ways to earn cosmetics and collectibles from in-game activities

3) Stop tying all the most desirable new items to Crown crates, which involve gambling/RNG and are already banned in some countries.

This new tome system does all of these things. The paid tiers are totally optional. I am extremely negative about a lot of ZOS's decisions over the years, especially when it comes to monetization. But I think this is actually a good direction for the game.

Warhawke_80 · January 27

Orbital78 wrote: »

As long as it is only cosmetics I don't understand the outrage. Parts of it, including the 8000 endeavors were said to be part of the free earnables.

If a future zone, like Winterhold is released it will be accessible by everyone, right?

The Outrage machine never needs a reason...

lillybit · January 27

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

when you have an pay way for in game currencies ( limited or not ) expect 1) high cost of items , 2) high rate for money .. so taking that the new store pricing will be like seals was and we all know them , and that Premium+ version will give out 10xs more then free version making it an have to have thing not just an optional choice to get

On PTS each page has 5 free and 5 premium items so not 10x more. There were also things in both free and paid tiers I wouldn't be too bothered about missing, and nice things in the free. I know that's all subject to change but I wouldn't expect it to be too different.

To my way of thinking premium+ costs about the same as a 5500 crown pack and a crownstore mount is usually 5-6k on its own (when it's not just in crates which work out even more) so it's not bad value when you're getting a lot more than just a mount, even if they do need unlocking first.

Tbh if you're ok with not buying every exclusive mount and style pack in the crownstore, it won't be any more of a problem skipping the premium versions

ZOS_Kevin · January 27

AzuraFan wrote: »

If I'm understanding correctly, you only have to buy the premium tomes if you're interested in the premium collectibles. Everything else is FREE. That's better than before. You get any new content (zones, story, dungeons, etc.) for FREE.

If I'm understanding correctly.

I know there are completionists, but has anyone bought every item in the crown store? Every single one?

I really don't think there's anything to complain about here.

This is correct.

ZOS_Kevin · January 27

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Orbital78 wrote: »

If a future zone, like Winterhold is released it will be accessible by everyone, right?

Only for a limited period, unless you paid.

This is incorrect. New zones will be free regardless if you pay for the Tamriel Tome or not. And will be available to everyone. The premium tome has cosmetics and in-game currencies. Gameplay is not tied to it.

Abelon · January 28

Too many layers of monetization will never make a positive impression on people. Period. It doesn't matter if this battlepass turns out to be the most player friendly monetization model EVER in all of video gaming. The fact that it is layered on TOP of a monthly subscription that is ESO+, on top of a cash shop, on top of loot boxes, on top of old chapters still being b2p (and that is the case and will be the case for years, based on the yearly rollout), on top of old dlcs still being b2p, etc. That fact alone will forever make it appear player unfriendly and over monetized.

And most importantly, let's ignore the vets here. We don't matter. We can complain or not complain, stay or leave, we paid over the years, it doesn't matter. But new players... New players are the actually important thing here. The game needs new players, ZoS needs new players, us vets need new players. From what I've seen of the advertising of the new seasonal model, ZoS is also clearly aware of this and at least partially aims at new players. The problem is, once again, that the layered monetization model is not appealing to new players. It is confusing for new players. Hell, it's confusing even for some vets. It is generally unnecessarily complicated.

I see people on Reddit asking questions, because they just don't understand. They come into one of the announcement threads talking about "the NEW seasonal model!!", they ask "oh, so are all the chapters going free?" and then you have to explain that "no, actually not, you see only one chapter is going free this year, the rest you still need to buy, what they meant is that "new chapters" are going free, except uh, there are no new chapters... so uh..." Or they ask, "oh wow, I've wanted to play this for a long time now, but I heard there is some issue with inventory space and you need a subscription, is that gone now? Is it included in the battle pass?" And you have to explain that "no, actually none of that changed whatsoever, most of the monetization is actually the same as it was really, you just kinda can buy a battle pass on top." And someone asks "oh, are all the dungeons free in this game" and the answer is "no... you need ESO+ or appropriate DLCs." And the final question eventually is "so what content is going to be free in these new seasons you guys are getting?" and the answer is "well, all the content, but that content is also not chapters and not dungeons and not DLCs, so actually, see, nobody can really tell aside from this one Night Market thing we got, that is X and Y."

And also if/once those new players decide to try out the game, they will be greeted by a cash shop, some weird loot box peddler rubbing his hands, a bunch of greyed out DLCs, a full inventory, and the occasional pop-up asking them to buy a battle pass... Need I explain any further why I believe that this is off putting for new players? All of this happens long before they even get to whatever new busywork daily checklist the seasons consist of.

Pevey · January 28

Abelon wrote: »

Too many layers of monetization will never make a positive impression on people. Period. It doesn't matter if this battlepass turns out to be the most player friendly monetization model EVER in all of video gaming. The fact that it is layered on TOP of a monthly subscription that is ESO+, on top of a cash shop, on top of loot boxes, on top of old chapters still being b2p (and that is the case and will be the case for years, based on the yearly rollout), on top of old dlcs still being b2p, etc. That fact alone will forever make it appear player unfriendly and over monetized.

And most importantly, let's ignore the vets here. We don't matter. We can complain or not complain, stay or leave, we paid over the years, it doesn't matter. But new players... New players are the actually important thing here. The game needs new players, ZoS needs new players, us vets need new players. From what I've seen of the advertising of the new seasonal model, ZoS is also clearly aware of this and at least partially aims at new players. The problem is, once again, that the layered monetization model is not appealing to new players. It is confusing for new players. Hell, it's confusing even for some vets. It is generally unnecessarily complicated.

I see people on Reddit asking questions, because they just don't understand. They come into one of the announcement threads talking about "the NEW seasonal model!!", they ask "oh, so are all the chapters going free?" and then you have to explain that "no, actually not, you see only one chapter is going free this year, the rest you still need to buy, what they meant is that "new chapters" are going free, except uh, there are no new chapters... so uh..." Or they ask, "oh wow, I've wanted to play this for a long time now, but I heard there is some issue with inventory space and you need a subscription, is that gone now? Is it included in the battle pass?" And you have to explain that "no, actually none of that changed whatsoever, most of the monetization is actually the same as it was really, you just kinda can buy a battle pass on top." And someone asks "oh, are all the dungeons free in this game" and the answer is "no... you need ESO+ or appropriate DLCs." And the final question eventually is "so what content is going to be free in these new seasons you guys are getting?" and the answer is "well, all the content, but that content is also not chapters and not dungeons and not DLCs, so actually, see, nobody can really tell aside from this one Night Market thing we got, that is X and Y."

And also if/once those new players decide to try out the game, they will be greeted by a cash shop, some weird loot box peddler rubbing his hands, a bunch of greyed out DLCs, a full inventory, and the occasional pop-up asking them to buy a battle pass... Need I explain any further why I believe that this is off putting for new players? All of this happens long before they even get to whatever new busywork daily checklist the seasons consist of.

I agree with this to a large extent. I think the battle pass system is a great direction for ESO. My strong hope is that they are being very cautious by only making they year one DLC free this year. I hope the battlepass will be financially successful, and they will speed up this pace once they have data to support it.

The game won't grow until the new player experience improves. And all the refreshing of zones etc is a drop in the bucket compared to what really drives players away: inventory management (aka craft bag) and paywalled zones/dungeons. To me, the battle pass signals an important shift, but I don't expect to see any meaningful change in the trajectory of player numbers until it enables them to remove the more toxic forms of monetization from the game in favor of the battle pass.

AlexanderDeLarge · January 28

Wholeheartedly agree. This is the straw that's breaking the camel's back for a lot of players and it's why the crafting bag is getting such a reaction out of the community all of a sudden. This is a significant change to the monetization model, arguably in isolation, a positive direction for the game, but players already feel like they're being nickeled and dimed.

Imagine being a brand-new player logging in for the first time. Before you even get into the game, in character creation you’re hovering over several locked options including Any Race, Any Alliance + Imperial Race as a whole + several paid classes that you may or may not have depending on what version of the game you purchased . The Imperial race is still locked behind a collector’s edition bundle originally sold 12 years ago. Worse, you can’t even buy them without first logging into a character, meaning you might create a character solely to purchase an account unlock, delete it, and then finally create the Dark Elf on AD you actually wanted to play with your friend in PvP, or an Imperial of any kind.

Then you log in and immediately see daily login rewards sitting directly under rotating Crown Store advertisements.

So before a new player has even navigated the cash shop, seen the loot boxes, or experienced the shortcomings of the non-ESO+ experience, they’ve already been exposed to three paid account unlocks, a dark pattern designed to condition daily logins, and in-game advertisements for the cash shop.

It doesn’t matter if daily login rewards are going away, for years, this has been a new player’s first impression of the game for many, many years.

A battle pass layered on top of a subscription that significantly disadvantages non-subscribers, including p2w economic advantages, is going to upset players regardless of how well the battle pass is implemented. If the game is moving toward battle-pass monetization, it should be a full shift. ESO+ should be removed, with its benefits bundled into the battle pass for the duration of each season, while players who want Crowns can continue to buy them outright.

Unfortunately for ZOS they have to pick one: Automatic billing or a battlepass. Can't have your cake and eat it too.

SkaiFaith · January 28

Update 49 hasn't hit yet, and my Warden hasn't been reworked yet, but what I've seen about Season Pass, next update and the whole year makes me think that ESO has never been in a better shape and state than in 2026 (not talking about number of players, but hopefully that will change) and that going forward it will only get better.
Praise to everyone at ZOS! Seriously.

Warhawke_80 · January 28

My question is if you have already paid for a years subscription ...how is that going to effect what tier your on

DoofusMax · January 28

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

My question is if you have already paid for a years subscription ...how is that going to effect what tier your on

I can't claim to be exactly clear on this point myself, but the Premium+ credit is for each 12 months of subscription, consecutive or non-. If you're buying one year's ESO Plus (the ~$140 "save 22%" version), then it should work just like crowns in that it would given up front since there's no take-backsies with subs. Anything other than the full-year sub would probably depend on how many months have been completed, I guess counting from April, plus however many months the (re)new sub is.

Warhawke_80 · January 28

DoofusMax wrote: »

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

My question is if you have already paid for a years subscription ...how is that going to effect what tier your on

I can't claim to be exactly clear on this point myself, but the Premium+ credit is for each 12 months of subscription, consecutive or non-. If you're buying one year's ESO Plus (the ~$140 "save 22%" version), then it should work just like crowns in that it would given up front since there's no take-backsies with subs. Anything other than the full-year sub would probably depend on how many months have been completed, I guess counting from April, plus however many months the (re)new sub is.

I do hope we can get some clarification from the devs on this....

wolfie1.0. · January 29

SilverBride wrote: »

Thank you for the explanation, @DenverRalphy. I'm still somewhat confused but have some understanding of it now. It sounds like a complicated system and honestly it doesn't appeal to me at all.

The best way to sum it up. Golden Pursuits that last for longer, and you can recollection what you need to complete them. Each objective is often a week long task akin to weekly endeavors.

You get currency (like endeavors) and you can use that to buy items you want or move to the next page.

SkaiFaith · January 29

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MdZTpWuD8Ow&pp=ugUHEgVlbi1VUw%3D%3D

This video explains Season Pass in details, showcasing from PTS, if anyone want to get more informed.
Thanks to the content creator for making this

it is very well done!

twisttop138 · January 29

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Orbital78 wrote: »

If a future zone, like Winterhold is released it will be accessible by everyone, right?

Only for a limited period, unless you paid.

This is incorrect. New zones will be free regardless if you pay for the Tamriel Tome or not. And will be available to everyone. The premium tome has cosmetics and in-game currencies. Gameplay is not tied to it.

Unless somehow, the definition of zone gets changed, like dlc did. That's not without precedent. But that couldn't happen again right?