What do you think about the new Vestige difficulty mode rewards?

Avran_Sylt · January 24

I'm an endgame PvE player and I want better rewards for Vestige mode

I'm kind of on the fence, mostly due to the damage taken and reduced damage numbers.

The enemies deal more damage, so you now need to play more defensively, which reduces your damage output, which is further compounded by the damage reduction. (I can certainly see stuns/fears/etc being core skills with regards to mob management).

I'm likely to run at least the Master Difficulty, so mobs can take at least a full combo from my setups, and provide a somewhat present danger if I jump into a mosh pit.

While I don't do it often, I do like to run Imperial City for Tel Var to sell and the like, and as a non-daily crafter, to gain some gold for my empty pockets by selling Hakeijo.

That's kind of what I'd imagine Vestige difficulty could be like, albeit less gold gain overall given the need to repair equipment (and in terms of intentional balance for gold gain from a solo activity), but with the current numbers on Vestige difficulty, I'd only look at that for a pure challenge, and at that point the gold/xp is irrelevant to me.

If they are intent on adding rewards, I'd want something more than what is currently offered at the highest difficulty. (doesn't need to be gold/xp specifically).

Avran_Sylt · January 24

I'm an endgame PvE player and I want better rewards for Vestige mode

Anumaril wrote: »

Something as simple as XP or gold is unexciting enough that the average player who is not interested in the difficulty challenge can just ignore it, and honestly even as an endgame player I'm always short on gold (I blame furnishings costing a fortune). But the moment you add exclusive rewards to the mix that changes everything. People want collectibles, gear, motifs, etc., but don't want to be forced to do something they find deeply unenjoyable. This was one of the main arguments people used against this overland option to begin with. Their main arguments were: (1) don't universally increase difficulty, keep it optional; (2) don't let it split the playerbase by instancing it; and (3) don't attach exclusive rewards which effectively force people to use it who don't want to. We should probably be respectful of those pretty reasonable requests.

That being said, now that I'm writing this it does occur to me that there are plenty of other aspects of the game which are equally "forced", yet are not held to this standard. E.g., I really dislike grinding Tel Var stones in the Imperial City. Its long, stressful, and you almost always end up getting ganked and losing what you spent ages gathering. But I force myself to do it because I'm after certain rewards. The same can be said of a PvP player forcing themselves to do trials or dungeons because they want a particular cosmetic. It seems pretty common for games to force their players to do things outside their comfort zone for the sake of rewards. So if this standard were applied universally, we'd have to drop rewards for ALL activities so that no one is incentivised to potentially do something they may or may not enjoy.

All sides considered, I'd err on the side of keeping rewards "unexciting" just to avoid pissing off more of the playerbase. But it's also fair to say that if such a system had existed in ESO since launch (and thus considered a regular part of the game), no one would bat an eye if it had exclusive rewards.

I mean there's already lots of titles/skins/etc. for Hardmode completion of various trials/dungeons/etc.

Wonder if they'd add titles/mounts/etc. for completion of zone stories while running vestige difficulty. Probably a slow rollout over time, in part drip-feed as well as resource management.

Might also give them reason to do some light passovers of preexisting quests and the like, such as the addition of the dialogue options.

Edit: buuuut, players knowing they could be playing story quests at a harder difficulty and reap more rewards may simply just make them feel like they need to farm to the point they can do so for when the "real gameplay starts".

Czeri · January 24

I'm an endgame PvE player and I don't want better rewards for Vestige mode, extra XP and gold is fine by me

I've played long enough to remember veteran levels, where you'd get killed if you accidentally stepped on a mudcrab, That was not fun, it was tedious as hell. So sure, cutting through enemies like butter the way it is now might not pose any challenge, but I vastly prefer it to having to sneak everywhere,

Ingenon · January 24

I'm not an endgame PvE player and I don't want better rewards for Vestige mode, extra XP and gold is fine by me

I think that what ZOS is doing with the optional harder overland settings is fine. I am glad ZOS is addressing the folks saying they and their friends won't play because "ESO overland is too easy, we need harder overland". The proposed Vestige setting is not too easy, in my opinion.

katanagirl1 · January 25

Where’s the option for “I’m an endgame player and I have no interest in any harder overland mode no matter what it is called”?

Attorneyatlawl · January 25

I'm an endgame PvE player and I want better rewards for Vestige mode

Czeri wrote: »

I've played long enough to remember veteran levels, where you'd get killed if you accidentally stepped on a mudcrab, That was not fun, it was tedious as hell. So sure, cutting through enemies like butter the way it is now might not pose any challenge, but I vastly prefer it to having to sneak everywhere,

It was never that difficult, not even before beta (2013) and post launch nerfs (2014 and 2015, when you began after per your profile) at all. Mudcrab packs would die to a few AOE casts at worst and barely damage you even in beta.

Even welwa 6 packs which could drop nirnstones in upper Craglorn weren't tough, you just had to strafe in a circle while blocking and AOE. The strafing was to avoid their charge special attack and turn them into a timed circle.

Anyway I'd be happy with equivalent xp for the extra time killing mobs, and some increased drop rates of materials and set items, etc.

Right now, as proposed vestige is a PUNISHMENT for the player on xp. Mobs take 5x as long to kill, and you only get 2x the xp.

Plus it's even slower still as you have to build in some defense and healing unlike normal mode so really you need around 7-8x xp to break even, 10x to be a benefit.

Now I'll definitely use it while questing as I want the better challenge, but it needs further rewards to be worth bothering when not doing story quests. I'd love to grind in the mode for xp and rewards, but I won't purposefully punish myself when doing so just for the difficulty.

Cooperharley · January 25

I'm an endgame PvE player and I want better rewards for Vestige mode

What rewards?

I think there should be achievements, cosmetics, and all sorts of cool stuff for completing zones and achievements on vestige difficulty! Same to having said achievements for veteran dungeons rather than just normal. It would make it fun and give players a reason outside of just exploration and more difficulty.

Im just excited for the new way to approach overland!

-However-

They can't do these rewards without making separate instances. The way they have it now leaves it wide open to exploitation, so they need to fix that first and then rewards can come.

Attorneyatlawl · January 25

I'm an endgame PvE player and I want better rewards for Vestige mode

Cooperharley wrote: »

What rewards?

I think there should be achievements, cosmetics, and all sorts of cool stuff for completing zones and achievements on vestige difficulty! Same to having said achievements for veteran dungeons rather than just normal. It would make it fun and give players a reason outside of just exploration and more difficulty.

Im just excited for the new way to approach overland!

-However-

They can't do these rewards without making separate instances. The way they have it now leaves it wide open to exploitation, so they need to fix that first and then rewards can come.

Wholeheartedly agree, especially about separation of people based on difficulties. I'm hoping vestige will be tough enough to mirror the beta vet zones.... Or harder. If someone can't do it, just drop to an easier mode

If so, some cosmetics and titles aren't going to hurt anything. There should be no FOMO for cosmetics and such earned through higher difficulty. The game already does that in instances. It doesn't affect gameplay or "force" them to do anything.

Rev Rielle · January 25

I'm an endgame PvE player and I don't want better rewards for Vestige mode, extra XP and gold is fine by me

If focused on the monetary rewards, I can't help but feel the whole point of this future-addition has been missed.

ZomZom · January 25

I'm not an endgame PvE player and I don't want better rewards for Vestige mode, extra XP and gold is fine by me

I think bonus XP and gold, along with the occasional Golden Pursuit reward, is just right.

Ruthless · January 25

I'm not an endgame PvE player and I want better rewards for Vestige mode

karthrag_inak wrote: »

Experience is useless for khajiit - cp3600 on all 20 characters - and khajiit has solid 9 digits gold in bank. So without better rewards this change is useless, at least in its present state.

mate if you have 9 digits its enough , never understood billionaires

Vaqual · January 25

The difficulty is for the players that find the game too boring. The rewards should be very marginal and maybe a bit of vanity, like titles. Or unique rewards, if they are fully tradable. Otherwise the crying would never stop.
The feeling of being challenged in Overland, Delve and Quest content will be the main reward. As long as it doesn't get spoiled by by easy-mode players swooping in....
And it can't have crutches, like Oakensoul II: "Deals 50 % more damage per difficulty level". This type of stuff will be demanded by the usual crowd. But the Devs need to be straight there, otherwise it won't feel right.

Lekjih · January 25

I'm an endgame PvE player and I want better rewards for Vestige mode

If there are going to be rewards, they should be better. They're right to test with exp and gold only for now, becaue if only 3 people actually play it without reward incentive, what's the point of it.

Attorneyatlawl · January 25

I'm an endgame PvE player and I want better rewards for Vestige mode

Lekjih wrote: »

If there are going to be rewards, they should be better. They're right to test with exp and gold only for now, becaue if only 3 people actually play it without reward incentive, what's the point of it.

Well, it would be somewhat inaccurate a reading since some will avoid it so they aren't penalized on xp/hr for anything but questing, as I described above.

I'll use it for that only in its current proposed form, but turn it back off for farming despite not wanting to. I agree that it would be a good test, but only if they normalize the xp/hr to match normal mode better.

Ishtarknows · January 25

I'm an endgame PvE player and I want better rewards for Vestige mode

Extra gold sounds nice, it really does, but when 50%+ of the things you kill don't leave a lootable corpse that's a very small gain and likely to be a source of frustration.

If it takes me a minute or two to kill a group of mobs that previously died in a second I had better be getting to loot the bodies!

SerafinaWaterstar · January 25

I'm an endgame PvE player and I don't want better rewards for Vestige mode, extra XP and gold is fine by me

ApoAlaia wrote: »

I'm already at the CP cap and I don't really need gold after many, many years trading and doing daily writs on 32 characters.

With that out of the way, the current approach seems OK to me. When they announced this feature they did mention that they were weighing in the 'players feeling like they are missing out' factor.

Furthermore if you already are at the level of comfortably doing vet solo content (which is really a low benchmark given that many 'endgame PvE players' as the survey puts it are at the level where they can comfortably solo vet DLC 4 player content) this is not really going to pose a 'challenge'

If is a 'challenge' only in name I don't see the justification for further rewards other than maybe a title and a dye.

Few endgame PvE players can solo vet dlc dungeons.

And this was always asked for as the need for challenge, for better and harder fights, not for shinys.

But now apparently it’s all about the shinys. Sad but typical. Not doing it for the fun of doing it but need to have a reward.

Reginald_leBlem · January 26

The reward should be doing the content. Like y'all have been whining about harder overland for years, now they are implementing it and you want more?

AlexanderDeLarge · January 26

I'm an endgame PvE player and I want better rewards for Vestige mode

LunaFlora wrote: »

AlexanderDeLarge wrote: »

I don't see the point of a inconsistent reward structure for veteran-level content. In every other activity in the game, veteran content drops purple and gold-tier equipment. This is unnecessarily confusing and a incredibly arbitrary line drawn in the sand by the community and I have absolutely no idea why.

Veteran dungeons exist and they have exclusive, better rewards.
Veteran trials exist and they have exclusive, better rewards.
Veteran arenas exist and they have exclusive, better rewards.
Why shouldn't overland?

LunaFlora wrote: »

the reward should be the different difficulty.

That's not how veteran dungeons, arenas and trials work. What makes overland different?

Frankly I don't care much about rewards and I'll enable it and never turn it off just like I did in The Lord of the Rings Online/Warframe, but a game's reward structure should be consistent so you don't create a "wiki game" because the game's breaking its own rules.

higher equipment quality is fine, like Veteran dungeons, arenas, and trials. Thougg overland item set quality is often random already.
But why anything else?

i think more rewards for overland overall would be much better.
For example, a weapon style of the Rootmender staff would be an appropriate reward for completing Murkmire's zone story, regardless of difficulty.

if Overland's higher difficulties did not reduce our damage i guess i would not be opposed to a few exclusive rewards.
But the way it will be is not comparable to Dungeons, Arenas, and Trials. Veteran mode does not reduce our damage.

should the extra difficulty not be rewarding enough for the story quest fights in overland?

Just to be clear I only advocate for higher equipment quality because that's what other veteran activities offer. That would make it consistent with other activities and I do not believe that is enough of a incentive for people to feel like they're missing out on anything.

Maybe some titles. Cosmetics and mounts would be nice but I don't care about those and I'm choosing not to die on that hill, people will get angry about that, but if we were being honest, those would be on the table if we're talking about actual reward parity.

A game's reward structure should be consistent and reliable. As the system stands currently, it's a one-off exception and it's going to confuse players why they get purples and golds in every other veteran activity but not this one.

AlterBlika · January 26

I'm an endgame PvE player and I don't want better rewards for Vestige mode, extra XP and gold is fine by me

JiubLeRepenti wrote: »

Sorry, but… I think this is not correct. I don't think extra XP and extra gold will engage endgame players.

Those who asked for more challenging overland never really cared about rewards. Doing content is the reward itself.

frogthroat · January 26

If the extra xp means we'll find a better xp grind spot than brp or skyreach, I'll use it. Otherwise... meh, probably not. If I am overland I do questing and want to concentrate on the story, digging up the antiquity, harvesting the survey, or something like that. The rewards would have to be pretty big for me to change the setting.

alpha_synuclein · January 27

Neither of the above really.

I'll try the mode for questing, hoping that it will make it less trivial. But I don't get why they think xp is so good as a reward. There is very little point to push for higher cp and alts are nearly pointless with subclassing.

Unless the goal is not to attract current vet players, but to encourage higher difficulty from earlier levels.

Paramedicus · January 27

I'm an endgame PvE player and I want better rewards for Vestige mode

agree that it's quite strange that the higher the difficulty level you choose, the worse the rewards you get. Three times the gold for at least five times the time spent? It should be the other way around, right?

IDK, maybe ZOS ran some tests and concluded that experienced players who choose this option will still be faster than people who watch Netflix and do laundry while gaming.

reazea · January 27

I don't care. I only PvE to get gear to PvP.

luc76985 · January 27

alpha_synuclein wrote: »

Unless the goal is not to attract current vet players, but to encourage higher difficulty from earlier levels.

This is the only possibility that makes me feel okay about this. Endgame players do not, at all, need a bridge to Overland content (quite the opposite).

mavfin · 12:05AM

If you truly want 'more challenge' than you shouldn't expect or ask for extra rewards.

If you're asking for extra rewards, then you're just wanting a different mode with better rewards, not 'more challenge' for challenge itself.

I'm very much *not* on the side of more rewards for the new mode.

All of you who have been saying you want more challenge, put your money where your mouth is and play it for no added rewards, or give up and admit you just wanted more loot for playing the game.

Radiate77 · 12:13AM

I'm an endgame PvE player and I want better rewards for Vestige mode

I want better challenge.
I want better loot.

Loot has been notoriously bad in ESO up until Skill Styles came with Gold Road.

Maybe there is the answer, add some cool Skill Styles per zone, like a few lava themed skills for Stonefalls and Vvardenfell, titles, maybe a mount or skin?

Everyone needs aspirational loot.

Attorneyatlawl · 1:57AM

I'm an endgame PvE player and I want better rewards for Vestige mode

The "rewards" stink even as a first stab

. 2x xp for killing stuff with 6x damage and 5x health against you? And everyone reaches a point where they don't even need xp in the first place. It's a net loss or penalty right now as proposed, to your xp/hr.

DestroyerPewnack · 2:20AM

I'm an endgame PvE player and I want better rewards for Vestige mode

If I could just get double overland gear drops, I'd be happy.

Aliniel · 6:58AM

I'm an endgame PvE player and I don't want better rewards for Vestige mode, extra XP and gold is fine by me

One thing I dislike about this design is that we're still all mixed together in the same world instance. So, let's say I am battling a boss on Vestige difficulty and some random dude on Adventure difficulty comes and nukes him in 0.5s. What's the point?

About extra rewards - overland content in this game is so ridiculously easy we need harder content just to stay awake and interested. I don't need any rewards at all. I just don't want to roll over all the content as if it was made for kindergarteners.