What do you think about the new Vestige difficulty mode rewards?

JiubLeRepenti · January 23

Hey there,

First of all, I want to say that I've been really hyped by the latest news we've heard from ZOS about ESO's future.

I was particularly waiting for news about a new difficulty mode. This is why I've read the latest dev note about it:

https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/69313

I'm a bit doubtful about the -80% / +600% ratio in Vestige Mode. But that's not what caught my attention:

Another pillar of design is around the rewards for participating in Challenge Difficulty. At launch, we will start with additional experience and gold rewards only. We are doing this for two core reasons. Based on feedback from various in-person events and player discussions, we believe starting with experience and gold is a good way to gauge player engagement. We also want to avoid potential exploitation and make sure Challenge Difficulty works without the incentive to exploit for a valuable reward.

Sorry, but… I think this is not correct. I don't think extra XP and extra gold will engage endgame players.

I'll just take my own case: I'm CP2700, and I have something like 30–40M in my bank. I made all that money with dailies. I even made a complete calculation of the money I earned over three years:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/684295/after-802-days-i-039-ll-stop-the-crafting-dailies-it-039-s-not-worth-it-anymore#latest

In one day, I was making between 400k (with the current game economy) and 800k (during the economy peak). It was taking me between one and two hours per day to make 400–800k.

Now, just imagine how much I can expect to make by farming the overland with its 200% extra gold, but with -80% of my DPS… It will take hours and hours to make a few tens of thousands.

And regarding XP… well, I don't know about others, but when you've reached high CP like 2000–2500, I don't think you really care anymore (except to max skills). Also, a x2 XP bonus won't be very useful if it takes you five times longer to kill a mob.

So I want to be clear here: I'm not criticizing the new difficulty mechanic (I've been asking for it for ages). But I think the rewards just aren't worth it at all. x3 gold and x2 XP, when you can make the first ten times faster with dailies and the second faster in normal mode by killing mobs quicker, is just not attractive.

I was personally expecting better rewards like more recipes, more style pages, better antiquity lead drop rates...

What do you think about it?

Masteroshi430 · January 23

I'm an endgame PvE player and I want better rewards for Vestige mode

They prudently start with xp and gold to see how it goes and monitor any exploits and they will probably add more interesting rewards in the future, that's what I understood.
What is your point, you want it to be what it will be now because you can't wait?

H3rBie · January 23

I'm an endgame PvE player and I don't want better rewards for Vestige mode, extra XP and gold is fine by me

I would not even mind if there a no rewards for higer difficulty overland content, I would/will play it because I want to play more challenging and not because of the rewards.

So for me it's just a nice to have and a way to reach the 3600 cap a little faster

Better rewards would just force people to do more difficult content and this should not be the case. Higher OL is a community requested feature to bring back more fun to questing and doing OL stuff for all those who are bored because of extreme low difficulty level. imho

KalevaLaine · January 23

I'm an endgame PvE player and I want better rewards for Vestige mode

Think this will come, as they said.

Would be nice to get more cool stuff then.

JiubLeRepenti · January 23

I'm an endgame PvE player and I want better rewards for Vestige mode

Masteroshi430 wrote: »

They prudently start with xp and gold to see how it goes and monitor any exploits and they will probably add more interesting rewards in the future, that's what I understood.
What is your point, you want it to be what it will be now because you can't wait?

I understood that better rewards would come, but only for specific things like golden pursuits. I don't expect them to give more than extra XP or gold on mobs bodies. I was expecting better things from mobs and overland in general (nodes, etc.)

ApoAlaia · January 23

I'm an endgame PvE player and I don't want better rewards for Vestige mode, extra XP and gold is fine by me

I'm already at the CP cap and I don't really need gold after many, many years trading and doing daily writs on 32 characters.

With that out of the way, the current approach seems OK to me. When they announced this feature they did mention that they were weighing in the 'players feeling like they are missing out' factor.

Furthermore if you already are at the level of comfortably doing vet solo content (which is really a low benchmark given that many 'endgame PvE players' as the survey puts it are at the level where they can comfortably solo vet DLC 4 player content) this is not really going to pose a 'challenge'

If is a 'challenge' only in name I don't see the justification for further rewards other than maybe a title and a dye.

Tariq9898 · January 23

I'm an endgame PvE player and I don't want better rewards for Vestige mode, extra XP and gold is fine by me

For me, the immersion that comes with the gameplay challenge plus the narrative stakes is the reward.

robwolf666 · January 23

Pretty sure they said XP and gold was the starting point and it might be expanded depending on how testing goes.

ApoAlaia · January 23

I'm an endgame PvE player and I don't want better rewards for Vestige mode, extra XP and gold is fine by me

Tariq9898 wrote: »

For me, the immersion that comes with the gameplay challenge plus the narrative stakes is the reward.

Yeah, that part on the last quest for the DB where you are told 'prepare for a real fight!' and then the hostile NPC dies before touching the floor is the poster child for immersion-breaking.

Happy that now there might be something other than unskippable mechanics preventing one-shotting the 'big, bad, world-ending' villain of the chapter.

alakeyfox · January 23

I'm an endgame PvE player and I want better rewards for Vestige mode

I want better rewards for sure, but I'd say other than maybe a title per difficulty I want none of them to be unique. That way people who don't choose to increase their difficulty wouldn't feel like they are punished for not doing so.

JeroenB · January 23

I'm not an endgame PvE player and I don't want better rewards for Vestige mode, extra XP and gold is fine by me

I'm not an endgame PvE player and I am not interested in Vestige mode so I have no "want" for better rewards, but equally I am not opposed to better rewards.

From my perspective, if you are choosing to engage in higher difficulty overland primarily because of the rewards you get for doing so rather than because you derive enjoyment from playing higher difficulty overland itself, then it sounds like you shouldn't be playing overland at all, because you would be having more fun with your limited time by playing some other aspect of the game (or a different game entirely).

Overland isn't there to be "farmed". It's there to experience the atmosphere of the zones, the views, the stories... If you don't enjoy those on their own terms, then please by all means stick to jumping between incursions or world bosses (perfectly fine activities themselves) and leave the rest of the zones to players who enjoy being there for the reward of being there.

One of the strengths of ESO is the variety of endgames it has catering to different player preferences. ZOS should be very reserved in locking elements of one endgame behind a very different endgame, e.g. companion achievements behind winning at Tales of Tribute, or housing or fashion behind extra difficulty PvE. With some regularity posts pop up where a player complains about spending hours trying to win a single game of Tribute against the easiest NPC for Zerith-Var's achievement, and failing every time. ZOS should be careful about creating similar situations by locking other endgame types behind optional higher difficulty.

To be clear I am not saying the number of other rewards should be zero. Presumably there are already plenty of housing and fashion items locked behind group dungeons, infinite archive, and the like. Simply, the rewards locked behind higher-difficulty overland should not exceed those examples, to my mind.

scrappy1342 · January 23

I'm not an endgame PvE player and I want better rewards for Vestige mode

JiubLeRepenti wrote: »

I don't think extra XP and extra gold will engage endgame players.

this is sort of a test in itself. they will add it later. so they can see how many ppl engage in it simply for the fun of having something new/new challenge, etc and then they can see how many ppl engage in it when there's shiny new things to be had.

personally, i probably won't bother with it until the shiny new things are added.

ShinyBacon · January 23

I'm an endgame PvE player and I don't want better rewards for Vestige mode, extra XP and gold is fine by me

i think we should take it one step at a time and see first how overland feels for those who wanted to have higher difficulty, i expect lots of tweaking happenig during and beyond PTS.
First priority should that the gameplay itself feels rewarding, and the feedback for years was that the mobs die too quickly.
getting more XP and gold is already more rewards than i was expecting. I would have been totally fine if those would have stayed the same, and i was just able to customize the difficulty to my liking or to the progress of my character or my personal mood of the day.
And lets be honest, the overland sets are not that good anyway, so theres not much difference in getting green rewards on adventurer mode or purple gear for vestige mode?
They could add extra achievements for doing Cadwells silver and gold, maybe a title or a dye.
But overall i dont think extra rewards are necessary as the complaint was the content being to easy not that the story rewards not enough titles.

emilyhyoyeon · January 23

I'm an endgame PvE player and I don't want better rewards for Vestige mode, extra XP and gold is fine by me

I only care about harder overland for a more engaging experience, especially for quest bosses and stuff. There could be no extra XP and gold and I wouldn't care either.

Ruthless · January 23

I'm not an endgame PvE player and I want better rewards for Vestige mode

damn I messed up my vote, I am an endgame player and I dont need any rewards, harder difficulty is the reward

Renato90085 · January 23

I'm an endgame PvE player and I don't want better rewards for Vestige mode, extra XP and gold is fine by me

i not care reward
but i really need boss can survive in my 2 lightattack and can broken my 3k shield..

kotisovich · January 23

Lol its literally TES difficulty modes, like u do x% less dmg, u receive x% more dmg

karthrag_inak · January 23

I'm an endgame PvE player and I want better rewards for Vestige mode

Experience is useless for khajiit - cp3600 on all 20 characters - and khajiit has solid 9 digits gold in bank. So without better rewards this change is useless, at least in its present state.

PeacefulAnarchy · January 23

I'm an endgame PvE player and I don't want better rewards for Vestige mode, extra XP and gold is fine by me

Maybe if they implement some different system of difficulty I could see better rewards, although even then it should just be things like double drops or increased odds of rng based drops, not unique rewards.

As is, though, this system is set up so that players of different difficulties can, are encouraged to, and in many cases must, play together, and in the same breath people (including devs) are calling these very actions "exploits." I absolutely understand why, btw, there are so many ways to game the system for rewards without fully experiencing the difficulty level you are set to, but you can't be giving out meaningful rewards, and then engaging in arbitrary hunts for those who "exploited" to get them. Giving out meaningful rewards will just make this system fall under the weight of toxicity.

Orbital78 · January 23

if it helps me get an instance of my own for overland where it is over camped, especially if leather scraps and alchemy regens have a higher drop rate then I'm all in. Otherwise, I don't really care unless the gold drops are significant.

Last'One · January 23

JiubLeRepenti wrote: »

What do you think about the new Vestige difficulty mode rewards?

Honestly, I didn’t even bother reading about the rewards. I simply uninstalled the game as soon as I read this:
Vestige

This will be the most difficult option at launch. You will take 600% more damage from monsters and will deal 80% less damage.

I really love the HA build. It used to be simple and powerful, but now it’s completely trash. And… difficulty for ZOS is just… nerfing my damage after already nerfing the build???? OMFG!!!!

Yeah. Uninstalling the game was the best solution. Simple.

SolarRune · January 23

The problem with the change is that the mobs are just made to be essentially more bullet spongey (if it was a game that had bullets!) In my experience this doesn't really give people any real additional satisfaction to clearing content. So there should be something more.

tomofhyrule · January 23

I'm an endgame PvE player and I don't want better rewards for Vestige mode, extra XP and gold is fine by me

Last'One wrote: »

JiubLeRepenti wrote: »

What do you think about the new Vestige difficulty mode rewards?

Honestly, I didn’t even bother reading about the rewards. I simply uninstalled the game as soon as I read this:
Vestige
This will be the most difficult option at launch. You will take 600% more damage from monsters and will deal 80% less damage.

I really love the HA build. It used to be simple and powerful, but now it’s completely trash. And… difficulty for ZOS is just… nerfing my damage after already nerfing the build???? OMFG!!!!

Yeah. Uninstalling the game was the best solution. Simple.

But... you don't need to play on that mode?

I'm not going to go for any of the difficulty modes. I'm not here for stories (and the faceroll combat was not the thing holding the stories back, after all Dragon Age the Veilguard has a high-difficulty mode and that didn't save it), and I actually prefer to level slowly in the first place. And if I want an immersive RPG experience, I'll go play an RPG with good writing and no hey-we-brought-this-irritating-character-back-because-they're-such-a-fan-favorite-but-we-also-removed-everything-about-their-personality-except-for-the-single-overdone-joke characters that I can get lost in.

The difficulty being the way it is completely allows me to do any overland stuff in my for-fun two-whole-heavy-sets tank-CP 64-points-in-health character. I really would hate if I have to keep swapping between something that's sweaty and something that I enjoy playing. Besides, trying to struggle with a wolf for 5 minutes to pick one flower sounds completely unfun.

tomfant · January 23

(x) I'm an endgame player and don't need these overland difficulty options at all, regardless of increased or alternative rewards. If I want to be challenged, I do HM dungeons and trials, go into PVP zones, and in future probably also the new Night Market.

I do overland stuff when I want something chill.

Edit spelling

Soarora · January 23

I'm an endgame PvE player and I don't want better rewards for Vestige mode, extra XP and gold is fine by me

I’m not opposed to rewards, I just don’t need them. I don’t even need the exp bonus.

ghastley · January 23

I'm not an endgame PvE player and I don't want better rewards for Vestige mode, extra XP and gold is fine by me

Ultimately, the gameplay has to be the reward. Gold or xp are just currencies to gain access to other levels of gameplay by buying equipment or skills. By paying out in a currency, they eliminate thr RNG of equipment drops, It also eliminates the need to do a specific activity to get a specific rewards, like a ser dropping only in one dungeon does.

It should all work this way.

BXR_Lonestar · January 23

I'm an endgame PvE player and I want better rewards for Vestige mode

I consider myself a PVE player, though PVP has largely been my endgame the past 2 years. Regardless of where my focus is though, the extra gold is not going to be a draw for me. I've tens of millions of gold over my time in this game. I don't even know how much because I've only kept ~ $20 M for myself, and the rest I have donated to my guilds to help fund events, traders, etc. Gold is not really an endgame currency or something I purposely aim to farm anymore.

Things that would draw my focus are:

1. High-end/rare alchemy ingredients, especially the hard to get ones like Chaurus eggs.
2. Gold mat upgrade materials. I go through a lot of these because I experiment with builds (before you get ahead of yourself, I mainly use them for weapons).
3. Rare trait gems for jewelry (I go through these frequently)
4. Furnishing blueprints - if they drop any blueprint from any zone, this would get my attention because I hate mindlessly farming urns in various zones.
5. Motifs - I'm a GM crafter, but who doesn't want more of these?

Just to name my top 5 things that would draw me into increased difficulty game modes.

CalamityCat · January 23

I think they made it really clear why it's just going to be XP and gold for now.

I don't see the point in complaining at such an early stage. Just because devs haven't mentioned additional loot, doesn't mean it isn't planned. Changing the loot for that much content isn't going to be a five-minute job. Maybe they just want it to be a nice surprise for players?

Either way, I'm happy to do new content just to see how my characters manage. Purely for the satisfaction you get from beating a tough opponent. I made a new templar a while ago and stalled on training her. This will be a perfect opportunity to finish her training with some actual peril!

Toanis · January 23

SolarRune wrote: »

The problem with the change is that the mobs are just made to be essentially more bullet spongey (if it was a game that had bullets!) In my experience this doesn't really give people any real additional satisfaction to clearing content. So there should be something more.

Not even that, it's not like the content is more difficult, you just get a debuff so you can cosplay hardcore mode while being carried by "Adventurers".

C_Inside · January 23

I'm an endgame PvE player and I want better rewards for Vestige mode

So they went with the laziest approach possible with the difficulty modes, huh? Didn't people complain about Skyrim's archaic approach to difficulty when it had the exact same system? Anyway, In their current states all but Adventurer and Seasoned modes are obsolete for me.

If I want money there are more efficient ways for me to get it than grind overland mobs.

If I want xp then I'll either farm Blackrose prison/Skyreach with a friend or if I don't have any friends I'll farm Spellscar on Adventurer/Seasoned mode. Now I could farm Spellscar on Vestige for more xp but it would take way longer to kill the trash packs and I would need to slot in heals/defensive skills which would further nerf my dps and make farming take even longer. Therefore it's more efficient to farm there on Adventurer/Seasoned.

As an endgame player the biggest annoyances when traversing the overland is the absolute incessant spam of enemy packs everywhere. Combined with the fact that every little trash mob snares you even if you're 20 kilometers away from them just makes me want to engage with the overland even less. So a difficulty mode where not only can enemies snare me for no reason but also kill me when I just want to get where I want to go would make overland even more tedious than it already is. Reducing the amount of trash packs and enemies per pack would help a lot with this. Making them respawn less frequently would help too.

So yeah, all but Seasoned difficulty is gonna be dead on arrival for me and I don't foresee me engaging with this feature at all in its current state.

Last'One · January 23

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Last'One wrote: »

JiubLeRepenti wrote: »

What do you think about the new Vestige difficulty mode rewards?

Honestly, I didn’t even bother reading about the rewards. I simply uninstalled the game as soon as I read this:
Vestige
This will be the most difficult option at launch. You will take 600% more damage from monsters and will deal 80% less damage.

I really love the HA build. It used to be simple and powerful, but now it’s completely trash. And… difficulty for ZOS is just… nerfing my damage after already nerfing the build???? OMFG!!!!

Yeah. Uninstalling the game was the best solution. Simple.

But... you don't need to play on that mode?

I'm not going to go for any of the difficulty modes. I'm not here for stories (and the faceroll combat was not the thing holding the stories back, after all Dragon Age the Veilguard has a high-difficulty mode and that didn't save it), and I actually prefer to level slowly in the first place. And if I want an immersive RPG experience, I'll go play an RPG with good writing and no hey-we-brought-this-irritating-character-back-because-they're-such-a-fan-favorite-but-we-also-removed-everything-about-their-personality-except-for-the-single-overdone-joke characters that I can get lost in.

The difficulty being the way it is completely allows me to do any overland stuff in my for-fun two-whole-heavy-sets tank-CP 64-points-in-health character. I really would hate if I have to keep swapping between something that's sweaty and something that I enjoy playing. Besides, trying to struggle with a wolf for 5 minutes to pick one flower sounds completely unfun.

Seasoned Deal 20% less damage.
Master Deal 50% less damage.
Vestige Deal 80% less damage.

From my point of view… why does ZeniMax nerf my DPS after already nerfing the build?! Is this what they call "Challenge Difficulty"??

So if we ask for some kind of Hard Mode Hell Difficulty, what will they do next? - "You will take 2000% more damage from monsters and deal 99% less damage."

If I want to deal less damage, I’ll just remove my weapons. My sets. Everything. Bro, I’m so angry and so disappointed with ZeniMax that I don’t even want to argue anymore.

The Elder Scrolls Online

What do you think about the new Vestige difficulty mode rewards?

What do you think about the new Vestige difficulty mode rewards? 126 votes